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[The Cockatrice]

Okay slacktivists in this thread,

What are (we) or rather, you, going to do about it?

Cancel the entire industry. No more games. Time to advance our society.

 

[Fafalada]

The social cohesion can be attributed to the collectivist culture rather than salary compression specifically.

Maybe for Japan - but that's working with a sample of 1.
How dysfunctional society gets, does correlate with salary-divide in other cases (especially on the other end of the extreme), so it's hard to dismiss there's a connection here outright.

and it's unlikely to be something that can change through western activism.

I mean - it's not like West is exactly showering their game-devs in gold either, more like the opposite with very few exceptions.

Things have gotten better recently though. Many companies have started hiring foreigners and I've seen those salaries make big jumps. I have a friend that at 26 is making 10M yen a year as a front end developer and I was making 7M with a couple of years of experience just a few years ago.

Is that trickling downs to games though? That gap (Tech vs. games) is still quite present around the world, sadly, even though game-industry has been (slowly) catching up a bit.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

you guys dunk on press sneak fuck a little too hard imho. He does good exposing bullshit in the industry and it's overall a better place because of it.

People like to enjoy their games without any guilt or thinking about the people making them. Saddening.

 

[FingerBang]

Is that trickling downs to games though? That gap (Tech vs. games) is still quite present around the world, sadly, even though game-industry has been (slowly) catching up a bit.

I can't say it's happening for sure, but I would be surprised otherwise. There aren't enough software engineers in Japan, so they need to get them from overseas and good foreign engineers want to be paid well. I have to say living in Japan can be much cheaper than in EU/US.

Also, not all game development is the same. I am a game dev too, working on mobile/web games and I'm paid really well. I suspect triple A gaming might be the worst offender here... sad.

 

[Fools idol]

People like to enjoy their games without any guilt or thinking about the people making them. Saddening.

yeah it's... well, let's just say many here live in a bubble.

 

[gow3isben]

29k annual wage?

Come on man a part time door to door knife salesman makes more.

I know because I was one at 19

 

[Clear]

So do people care too much or do they care too little? Pick a lane lmao.

They care a lot about posturing for a "cause". But the actual people... the actual reality, they don't give a fuck really.

Face facts: If the products they made displeased them, either because of bugs or content that they disagreed with... the same pearl-clutchers would be lobbying just as hard for them to be boycotted!

Its all empty, performative bullshit. Mainly by lazy, impotent, twats who create and chase controversy in order to validate their worthless, meaningless, existences.

Just stop. Fuck's sake.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

It's not a problem specific to FROM, and it's unlikely to be something that can change through western activism.

Full remote hirings may change their ecosystem, though. As long as the japanese devs learn to write and/or speak english, of course.

 

[Fafalada]

I have to say living in Japan can be much cheaper than in EU/US.

I think this one is interesting topic of its own - a lot of it comes down to lifestyle choices (if you try emulating US lifestyle in Japan it doesn't work out so well - and vice versa) but indeed, the general ratio of cost:quality-of-life is one of the best I've seen anywhere in the world. I'd put it somewhere in top 3 of places where I lived to date on that metric, certainly way ahead of US.

Also, not all game development is the same. I am a game dev too, working on mobile/web games and I'm paid really well. I suspect triple A gaming might be the worst offender here... sad.

Sadly that's likely true. Possibly partly driven by mobile just having more overlap with 'big-tech' for staffing, but there must be other factors too.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

This shines a new light on OG Shrine of Amana.

 

[Papacheeks]

Sorry, but I don’t give a fuck. Make me my fuckin games.

Would you give a fuck if the actual job force and laws in your country prohibited you from getting paid for your work? Thats how it is in Japan. You work hard for very little and its suppose to build character in how they look at it. Like evillore mentioned software development is not looked at the same way it is in the west.

 

[XXL]

I like how this an issue now that they have exploded in popularity. Be less transparent.

 

[DAHGAMING]

Aparently 1 of the soy employees went into Miyazaki's office to complain about the work conditions, only to be told to "git gud bruv".

 

[RoadHazard]

That's Japanese work culture. I love many aspects of that country but would never, ever want to live there (at least not as a regular working Joe).

 

[Lethal01]

Man, people really hate it when they hear people wishing for better circumstances for others. Some can't even grasp the concept of having some empathy for people you don't know but not making them your whole existence.

 

[kyliethicc]

Shocker! its almost like there's a trend with the all the best studios...

 

[blacktout]

You could say it's the Dark Souls of employment.

Came here for this, wasn't disappointed.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm already imagining miyazaki saying git fukd to whoever ask for a raise.

 

[Sygma]

Isn't it a ten years old source

 

[NonPhixion]

All of this based on reviews from 2016 or older. Did the twitard make the attempt to inquire about conditions in the last 6 years before crying foul?

If not they should have a coke, smile and shut the fuck up.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Isn't it a ten years old source

This is the big kicker that I originally overlooked myself. Really should be updated in the OP. FS has done quite a bit in the last 10 years, I'd imagine their internal health have improved since then. Even if just a little bit.

That being said, low pay issues, false promises, and overall negative working conditions, etc. DO still exist in the game industry, it's unfortunate, but no one should really be shocked about it at this point. Yes, even in the US. It's not EVERY developer or publisher of course, but that doesn't mean these situations don't exist.

 

[lachesis]

Japan's wage has been stagnating for 30 years... so if the wage situation hasn't been any better than 10 years ago, I wouldn't be surprised to be honest...

 

[RoboFu]

remember when Japanese game companies would put false names in the credits to keep other companies from stealing their talent and keep programmers pay down ? Ahh good times.. good times

 

[Jaybe]

You can’t make an omelette without breaking some eggs

 

[AJUMP23]

I’m starting a corporation in Japan. Have pay my workforce less.

 

[BacklashWave534]

 

[Fbh]

Man, people really hate it when they hear people wishing for better circumstances for others. Some can't even grasp the concept of having some empathy for people you don't know but not making them your whole existence.

Please, this has nothing to do with empathy. This is someone who saw the success of Elden Ring and is trying to stir up some drama for twitter points.
She doesn't even bother to mention that everything she is saying is primarily based on contractors/temp workers from 10 years ago.

 

[lachesis]

I’m starting a corporation in Japan. Have pay my workforce less.

That's a great idea, if you are trying to hire old folks. The unemployment rate is quite low even these COVID days...

It's becoming harder to find young people due to the population decrease.

 

[Lokaum D+]

 

[PeteBull]

I dug deep and found sneak peek of the "professional journo" endevour just before he decided to write this article

 

[Zeroing]

The low pay gives the work meaning.

Yeah we can tell how sadistic the game is!!!

People like to enjoy their games without any guilt or thinking about the people making them. Saddening.

Yeah unfortunately it is the truth. With still so many issues in the gaming industry people rather focus their attention on console wars rather that real issues.

 

[Killer8]

Man, people really hate it when they hear people wishing for better circumstances for others. Some can't even grasp the concept of having some empathy for people you don't know but not making them your whole existence.

But didn't you hear - nobody can be genuinely empathetic! Caring about anything is performative and stirring the pot! Everything is just done for internet points and head pats!

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

29k annual wage?

Come on man a part time door to door knife salesman makes more.

I know because I was one at 19

ha, cutco i bet.

 

[gow3isben]

ha, cutco i bet.

LOOOL yes

 

[Serge85]

Well... stop buying their games!

Meanwhile....millions won't care.

If those developers don't like it there, they can quit and go find another way of making a living.

 

[RafterXL]

This is only being brought up because people are salty about Elden Rings success. This information is 10 fucking years old, completely out of date and just conveniently happens to start popping up now? Btw, some dipshit on Era tried to derail the sales topic with this same nonsense and even over there, where they trive on this type of drama, the mods edited it to show it was out of date information.

Nice try.

 

[PeteBull]

This is only being brought up because people are salty about Elden Rings success. This information is 10 fucking years old, completely out of date and just conveniently happens to start popping up now? Btw, some dipshit on Era tried to derail the sales topic with this same nonsense and even over there, where they trive on this type of drama, the mods edited it to show it was out of date information.

Nice try.

indeed

 

[AJUMP23]

LOOOL yes

Can I get some more knives from you, cheap.

 

[Keihart]

Japan's wage has been stagnating for 30 years... so if the wage situation hasn't been any better than 10 years ago, I wouldn't be surprised to be honest...

plus no inflation or companies rising prices of most products, so all kinda works somehow.

 

[Sega Orphan]

I beat him to the punch. Wheres my income?

You get paid in soy beans.

 

[The_Mike]

Maybe things will change once Sony buys them

Given Naught Dog employees has terrible working conditions I'd say the workers are already used to sonys standard.

 

[Dick Jones]

Given Naught Dog employees has terrible working conditions I'd say the workers are already used to sonys standard.

Horizon Forbidden West was delayed in part to avoid crunch

In a welcome change of narrative, it turns out that the developers of Horizon Forbidden West chose to delay the game's …

www.eurogamer.net

Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Devs Are Celebrating No Crunch, Because We Need Some Wholesome News

We've reported a ton in the past about the problem of crunch, an issue that hurts many industries. So when a good story comes out about it? Yeah, we want to celebrate that.

www.gameinformer.com

Hopefully the excessive crunch at ND will become a thing of the past if the newer releases are anything to go by.

 

[DavJay]

Maybe things will change once Sony buys them

Didn’t Sony just had a pedo executive recently?

 

[Beechos]

Jesus 29k wtf. Thats seems really low for japanese wage.

 

[Neolombax]

It seems like an Asian thing more than anything. I'm an Asian, and companies I have worked for, I would generally give the same score. There are some big Multi National Companies that strive to have better workplace practices than others, but those companies are really hard to get into and few in numbers (at least where I live). I sadly fall into the unlucky group. For the majority of us who don't really have much of a choice, we just roll with it.

 

[MaxwellParrish]

Elden Ring publisher rewards devs with pay rise after incredible launch - Dexerto

After the remarkable launch of Elden Ring, publisher Bandai Namco has handed devs a hefty pay rise to celebrate the achievement.

www.dexerto.com

Not a fix by any stretch, but they all did get a raise, apparantly.

I don't think so : the article talks about BN employees. From Software has a production and distribution contract with Bandai Namco , by t this does not make its employees BN employees, and I truly don't believe that BN can directly rise the pay to FS employees

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I would hope not. It's Japanese tradition. In fact I know a Japanese expat who moved to the Netherlands and he's still working hard. Told him that's not how we do things around here but he just can't stop.

 

[Scotty W]

29k annual wage?

Come on man a part time door to door knife salesman makes more.

I know because I was one at 19

Do you earn more now? If so, do you think FS employee earnings might also increase with time and experience?

 

[Flash Junkins]

As a former dev I find it patronizing, and frankly insulting. These people aren't asking for your assistance or pity. Don't you think it comes off as being intrusive and weirdly voyeuristic to show such interest in other people's work and lifestyle conditions?

The worst part is the insinuation that these people aren't able to assert or help themselves.

Bottom line, if you actually cared about working practices/conditions you wouldn't pick such a "soft" occupation as game dev to champion. Whole employment sectors offer potentially far harsher conditions, you don't even need to go to the worst kind of sweatshop practices to see situations where being overworked and underpaid is far more of an issue for those affected.

I'd rather work in any capacity in game-dev than in retail on a zero-hour contract.

Sorry, but this whole thing makes me furious because its so FAKE. Its recreational outrage, and thus more about narcissism than empathy.

You're a former Dev for a reason, why patronize? Just curious.

It's a shame you don't respect those prepping product for no percentage to be employed or get into the industry.

Think about those apples, King Kong.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Concern trolling bullshit at its finest.

Be honest, you really don't give a fuck.

And if by some chance you do, why do you particularly care about this group of office workers in a different country?

Just bear in mind if you want to argue that you care because they made a piece of work that you especially like, what does that say about your lack of regard for the other underpaid, overworked people in that culture? Do they not deserve your pearl-clutching because their labour doesn't benefit you in some way?

Virtue signalling.

Reminds me of Reddit when they talk about Amazon. You just know the hypocritical cunts order stuff from them. Who do they think they are fooling?