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FSR 2.0 to be announced soon
- Thread starter winjer
- Start date
ToTTenTranz
Banned
Given the timing of these announcements, it looks like FSR 2.0 is a tech for the Radeon 6x50 RDNA2 refreshes that are coming up, and not for the new RDNA3 GPUs coming up in Q3/Q4 2022.
It also means both Series and PS5 consoles would take advantage of this. If it's a temporal upscaling method then it might be similar to UE5's TSR but it would work on any engine/game that implements motion vectors.
It also means both Series and PS5 consoles would take advantage of this. If it's a temporal upscaling method then it might be similar to UE5's TSR but it would work on any engine/game that implements motion vectors.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
If it's a temporal solution then it needs motion vectors to be enabled. FSR 1.0 is probably as good as you'll ever get with no or little developer intervention.
If FSR 2 is as good as UE5's TSR then it will probably have a faster adoption rate than DLSR 2, assuming it would work on all AMD (PC + consoles), Intel and Nvidia GPUs.
It could even be free by runnng it on integrated GPUs (which is what Intel wants to do with DP4a XeSS) which would be a big deal on laptops. Let's not downplay the fact that Nvidia owns 0% of the integrated PC GPU market.
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ToTTenTranz
Banned
If it's compatible with RDNA2 and/or it's cross-vendor then it's coming to Steam Deck's GPU.
winjer
Gold Member
This. Most people seem to forget that DLSS 1.0 was an absolute turd, with no redeeming qualities.
FSR 1.0 is limited when compared to DLSS 2.0, but it is much better than DLSS 1.0.
With FSR, even if it is just a Temporal Upscaler like the one from Epic, it will make it much easier for other devs to implement it into their games.
Each dev won't have to develop their own TAAU. Instead just use AMDs dev kit and be done with it.
And with news that the supply of neon gas from the Ukraine has been halted, there is a good chance that chip production will be hit. Again.
So for all those people that have cards without tensor units, having TAAU on all their games, is a good thing. And this includes console games.
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winjer
Gold Member
AMD FSR 2.0 ‘next-level temporal upscaling’ officially launches Q2 2022, RSR launches March 17th
The information in this post is based on official slides, hence we will only report on what is confirmed thus far. AMD is announcing its FSR 2.0 technology on March 17th. This announcement comes 6 days ahead of the official GDC 2022 showcase where next-generation upscaling technology will be discussed.
As it turns out, the tip we received a few days ago about new upscaling tech in Deathloop is actually FSR 2.0. This title specifically is mentioned in the official slides, with a few side-by-side comparisons that we cannot share yet.
Temporal data and anti-aliasing
The FSR 2.0 will offer better image quality in all presents and resolutions, but AMD does not confirm anything about performance benefits. This technology will be based on temporal data, and it will feature optimized anti-aliasing. In this regard, it will be a proper competitor for NVIDIA DLSS 2.0.
No ML cores required but no confirmation on supported GPUs
AMD confirms FSR 2.0 will not require dedicated Machine Learning hardware. However, AMD does not mention which GPUs will be supported. Instead, they confirm it will boost frame rate in supported games across ‘a wide range of products and platforms, both AMD and competitors’. The footnotes attached to this sentence do not confirm support for non-AMD hardware.
So what is confirmed: FSR 2.0 is using temporal data, has built-in antialiasing, and it will offer higher image quality than FSR.
What we can’t confirm yet: open-source code and support for non-AMD hardware. The slides are only a teaser of the GDC 2022 session, so the vast majority of news will be presented on March 23rd, it seems. With Intel XeSS going open-source, one could not imagine locking FSR 2.0 code though.
AMD Radeon Super Resolution on March 17th
Furthermore, AMD confirms it will finally launch RSR on March 17th, this is the official date for the new driver to launch. The RSR is basically FSR but working on a driver-level for all games. There are two things to consider though, it only works on Radeon RX 5000+ GPUs, and it will offer lower quality than FSR because the algorithm upscales the whole frame (including user interface and menus).
FingerBang
Member
DLSS is the only reason I went Nvidia this gen. I will happily go team RED if this technology is on par with DLSS 2.0 and they can offer better RT performance with RDNA 3.
Well, that's assuming I'll be able to find one at MSRP, which probably won't be happening for a very long time anyway.
Well, that's assuming I'll be able to find one at MSRP, which probably won't be happening for a very long time anyway.
ethomaz
Banned
Nope.
FRS 1.0 is just a upscaling filter that add sharpening if you want… the end result is well a upscaled image.
DLSS 1.0 did way better than it… the end result is better than any upscaled image.
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winjer
Gold Member
DLSS 1.0 tried to do more than a spatial upscaler. But it failed miserably.
It's image quality was terrible, to the point of being worse than a bilinear scaler.
ethomaz
Banned
Hardware Unboxed… expected.
You can see others analysts with DLSS giving better results… the issue was some artifacts here and there but the IQ was better than any upscaling tech.
Look for NioH or other game that uses DLSS on PC.
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winjer
Gold Member
WFT. What part of DLSS 1.0 didn't you understand? I'll repeat: 1.0
Nioh 2 uses DLSS 2.0.
DLSS 1.0 was terrible. DLSS 2.0 is great.
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ethomaz
Banned
It was just an example... I did not check or anything.
Try Battlefield V, Monster Hunter, Metro Exudos, etc.
DLSS 1.0 was better than any upscaling.
MadchesterManc
Member
I would say I'm surprised there are actually staunch defenders of DLSS 1.0, but then again this is GAF. I'm glad Nvidia moved on as quick as they did after trying it on Metro & BFV.
Calling 911 Melts Beams
Banned
they also added FAS to wwe 2k22
winjer
Gold Member
Of course you didn't check anything. Did you play any of these games? Or is your idea just based on HU is bad?
I tried both Metro and BFV with DLSS 1.0 and I saw first hand that it was absolute crap. Not only it was much blurrier than native, it also had a ton of ghosting and lots of temporal artifacts.
DLSS 2.0 made huge improvements over DLSS 1.0
And FSR 1.0, which I also tested myself, looks better than DLSS 1.0
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ToTTenTranz
Banned
DLSS1 was universally panned by all outlets, not just HUB. At the time it was considered worse than AMD's much simpler RIS / CAS.
Ultimate visual comparison between AMD RIS, NVIDIA DLSS and FreeStyle | Page 4 | igor´sLAB
During our test of the Radeon RX 5700 and 5700 XT, we had already made an initial comparison to present the capabilities of AMD RIS (Radeon Image Sharpening) technology, which allows image playback to…
www.igorslab.de
F1 2019 - Nvidia DLSS VS AMD FidelityFX - OC3D
Introduction Update – Codemasters has confirmed to us that Patch 1.07 for F1 2019 shipped with an incomplete integration of Nvidia’s DLSS technology, which explains the graphical issues which we have experienced within the game. F1 2019’s DLSS support was released prematurely, and Codemasters...
Another clear sign that DLSS1 wasn't good is the fact that Alex Battaglia didn't post 14 Digital Foundry videos about how great it was.
manfestival
Member
Was looking further into this from techtubers. Interesting enough that RSR is in this as well. Funny just thinking about it DLSS and AMD responds with FSR , Nvidia "responds" with NIS(existed prior), and now AMD responds to NIS with RSR. Curious to see how it goes. AMD did mention that it will be inferior to FSR.
winjer
Gold Member
If FSR 2.0, is as good as Epic's TAAU in UE4 and UE5, then it's going to be pretty good.
Here is a comparison I made in Supraland. It uses UE4.26, so I enabled support for TAAU+TAA Gen5. I also updated DLSS to 2.3.7
I normalized screenpercentage to frame rate. This means DLSS Quality is running at 66%, as usual. But TAAU+TAA GEN5 is running at 70%.
So in these screenshots, with both solutions, the game was running at 132 fps.
Here is the comparison in Juxtapose
https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxt...html?uid=59392fb2-a38b-11ec-b5bb-6595d9b17862
DLSS Quality
TAAU+TAA Gen5
Here is a comparison I made in Supraland. It uses UE4.26, so I enabled support for TAAU+TAA Gen5. I also updated DLSS to 2.3.7
I normalized screenpercentage to frame rate. This means DLSS Quality is running at 66%, as usual. But TAAU+TAA GEN5 is running at 70%.
So in these screenshots, with both solutions, the game was running at 132 fps.
Here is the comparison in Juxtapose
https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxt...html?uid=59392fb2-a38b-11ec-b5bb-6595d9b17862
DLSS Quality
TAAU+TAA Gen5
RSR is more like dldss, they are super sampling (scaling down from a higher resolution). dlss/fsr/nis go the other way.
edit: sorry manfestival your completely right with this, rsr is not super sampling at all. I thought this was a rebranding of vsr, I wish they would both stop putting super in their upscaling naming schemes.
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manfestival
Member
Yeah that is the gist of what I am getting from the stuff I have been watching. This is actually great. Granted, I will be hesitant. Never cared to really use this kinda software even when I went 2080 back in 2018. I never once have went out of my way to turn on DLSS or FSR and kept it on. It was only to experience it but I would always see something that threw off the visual experience for me and my performance was always more than satisfactory without it.If FSR 2.0, is as good as Epic's TAAU in UE4 and UE5, then it's going to be pretty good.
Here is a comparison I made in Supraland. It uses UE4.26, so I enabled support for TAAU+TAA Gen5. I also updated DLSS to 2.3.7
I normalized screenpercentage to frame rate. This means DLSS Quality is running at 66%, as usual. But TAAU+TAA GEN5 is running at 70%.
So in these screenshots, with both solutions, the game was running at 132 fps.
Here is the comparison in Juxtapose
https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxt...html?uid=59392fb2-a38b-11ec-b5bb-6595d9b17862
DLSS Quality
TAAU+TAA Gen5
MadchesterManc
Member
If FSR 2.0, is as good as Epic's TAAU in UE4 and UE5, then it's going to be pretty good.
Here is a comparison I made in Supraland. It uses UE4.26, so I enabled support for TAAU+TAA Gen5. I also updated DLSS to 2.3.7
I normalized screenpercentage to frame rate. This means DLSS Quality is running at 66%, as usual. But TAAU+TAA GEN5 is running at 70%.
So in these screenshots, with both solutions, the game was running at 132 fps.
Here is the comparison in Juxtapose
https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxt...html?uid=59392fb2-a38b-11ec-b5bb-6595d9b17862
DLSS Quality
TAAU+TAA Gen5
We gonna need something with more zoom than digital foundry to pick a winner from that comparison
winjer
Gold Member
TAAU seems to resolve better object edges. But DLSS has better clarity in textures. It's all very minor differences though.
But I think DLSS scales better with higher percentage upscaling.
With 70% screen percentage, TAAU looks very good. Pretty much on par with DLSS.
But at 50% resolution scaling, DLSS is significantly better.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
TAAU+TAA is the better method at antialiasing here, for sure.
Here's that turret in a side-by-side comparison. DLSS on the left, TAAU+TAA (TSR?) on the right.
Of course this was made with 330% zoom in. I guess in real-life would be to notice some shimmering with DLSS on.
I don't think texture detail can be compared in a game like this.
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winjer
Gold Member
That's one of the things I noticed that TAAU does better. In Supraland Six Feet Under, also uses DLSS, and in certain situations it has a ton of ghosting.
I did relace the DLSS dll, with several versions, but there was always a lot of ghosting.
But with TAAU+TAA Gen5, there was almost none.
I don't know how good AMD's FSR 2.0 will be. If it's as good as Epic's solution, then we have a contender for DLSS. It will win in some things and it will lose in others.
But then again, there are many solutions of TAA. And a few for TAAU, that leave much to be desired.
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
What are the chances that this new version will be used on the new Harry Potter game that will be also show tomorrow?
Mister Wolf
Member
Which looks better in motion is also important. Doesn't Temporal Upscaling/Reconstruction become more apparent while moving.
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ToTTenTranz
Banned
Both are temporal solutions and both suffer from ghosting, unfortunately.
01011001
Banned
DLSS and TAAU both become rather unstable once you push it. but I found DLSS to be superior here too.
DLSS only really gets bad once you play on super low resolutions.
I pushed God of War to the extremes as a test and played at 1440p with DLSS Ultra Performance, which means the game effectively runs at 480p. at that point it still looked ridiculously good considering the super low resolution but in motion you saw checkerboard like artifacts and a lot of blur.
if I have time later I might even post a few shots here to show some extreme examples lol, because I think it is really fascinating. and also try to get in-motion shots with fast camera movement
I have Death Stranding and God of War which both support the ultra performance mode, usually meant to be used for 8K output on a 3090, but it is a great way to push DLSS to its absolute limits on lower resolutions.
but, at that resolution TAAU would completely fail, no other temporal upscaler on the market would even remotely look good at such extremely low resolutions, while DLSS still looks shockingly presentable
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winjer
Gold Member
Both DLSS and TAAU lose detail in movement. But from my experience, DLSS maintains detail a bit better.
That's why I don't use DLSS bellow the Quality mode. Even in this mode, I can see the loss in resolution. But if I use the Balanced or Performance mode, it becomes too much evident.
This is one of the reasons why I laugh every time someone says that DLSS is better than native. Yeah, but only standing still.
01011001
Banned
when people say it is better than native they mean better than native + TAA, which is often absolutely true. and TAA is the only viable AA solution for most modern games sadly
Death Stranding especially looks way worse at native res + TAA due to the rather bad TAA implementation of the Decima Engine.
DLSS looks sharper, less aliased and more stable in motion with DLSS quality mode.
it does have some artifacts due to some elements missing motion vectors like shown in the Digital Foundry video back in the day, but the rest clearly looks superior even in motion
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winjer
Gold Member
So here is a quick test to show how each solution deals with reconstruction in movement.
Same settings as before, but moving forward and taking a screenshot.
I tried lining up as best as I could, but it's not perfect.
One thing I have to emphasize is how goof TAA Gen5 is. It makes TAA less blurrier and it also reduces TAA ghosting.
But it takes around 10% of performance, on my 2070S at 1440p.
DLSS
TAA Gen5 + TAAU
Same settings as before, but moving forward and taking a screenshot.
I tried lining up as best as I could, but it's not perfect.
One thing I have to emphasize is how goof TAA Gen5 is. It makes TAA less blurrier and it also reduces TAA ghosting.
But it takes around 10% of performance, on my 2070S at 1440p.
DLSS
TAA Gen5 + TAAU
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Dibils2k
Member
and it used to look like shit lolDLSS was running on shader cores in one implementation:
Tensor cores probably speeds this up but are not required. Nvidia loves doing shit like this.
01011001
Banned
So here is a quick test to show how each solution deals with reconstruction in movement.
Same settings as before, but moving forward and taking a screenshot.
I tried lining up as best as I could, but it's not perfect.
One thing I have to emphasize is how goof TAA Gen5 is. It makes TAA less blurrier and it also reduces TAA ghosting.
But it takes around 10% of performance, on my 2070S at 1440p.
DLSS
TAA Gen5 + TAAU
I see basically no difference on my phone screen at least (zooming in like crazy of course.
what resolution is this targeting?
edit: never mind I just saw that it's 1440p lol, totally skipped that
edit2: zooming in even further, looks like DLSS is a tiny bit more aliased but also a tiny bit sharper... at least on some edges
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winjer
Gold Member
There is a difference. DLSS has better detail. TAAU also has a couple temporal artefacts.
01011001
Banned
I gotta look at it on my PC later lol, on my phone I really have to zoom in lole crazy and then look around with a tiny sliver visible at a time
assurdum
Banned
Not true at all
01011001
Banned
very true tho. anything before DLSS 2.0 looked like ass. completely temporally unstable TAA is basically what it was
winjer
Gold Member
01011001
Banned
so I'm on my PC now, and oh boy yeah... DLSS looks way cleaner, but it also has some artifacting, which doesn't look as bad as TAAU tho
winjer
Gold Member
One thing I did notice was that in the middle of the screen the loss in detail, with TAAU, is not as big as in the outer edges.
The roof of the house look a bit similar on DLSS and TAAU.