Segata Sanshiro
Member
My friend, adults don't even like games with mature aesthetics here. Know what the most popular games this year were with audiences outside the "teen male" demographic? Dragon Quest IX and Pokemon HG/SS.Chuck Norris said:
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Gamasutra Opinion: "2009 - The Last Days of the Japanese RPG?"
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Dragon Quest has actually quite successfully sold to adults. It has also sold quite successfully to younger audiences, but the reason it can reach such sales heights is that it has been able to tap into a lot of the older Japanese audience as well. A lot of Westerners assume that the series only targets young children because the art looks like Dragon Ball, but that is not actually the case.SolidSnakex said:
Let me get this straight. You essentially just said "I'm surprised people are different than me."Aaron said:
I see quite a few issues with this article, but to be fair, the "gold age" of WRPGs referred to the genre's evolution during that period. The games themselves weren't selling very well during the "Gold Age". Baldur's Gate 2 did the best with 2 million copies sold, but Mass Effect and Fable 3 have sold over 3 million copies and Fallout 3 had a launch shipment of 4.2 million.Lafiel said:
Kintaro said:Did this fool just say this?
Did he miss the 1.7 million units of DS sold in November alone? Is he going to ignore the over 2 million units it will push in December (no question in my mind)? Is he missing the 80-120k it sells every week in Japan?
I don't even have a DS...but...what?
Hardware sales don't always translate into software sales.
flabberghastly
Member
Yawn.
Did he really have to give it that title? How can you claim that these are the "last days of the Japanese RPG" right after Final Fantasy XIII hit Japan?
He's acting like Dissidia bombed or something. It sold very well in Japan and even charted in the NPDs for the first month.
Why do media outlets claim that JRPGs are dead? Do Square and other companies have to force them to review their games under optimal conditions at their headquarters and provide them with lots of food and toys for them to realize that several JRPGs are released every year?
He's acting like Dissidia bombed or something. It sold very well in Japan and even charted in the NPDs for the first month.
Why do media outlets claim that JRPGs are dead? Do Square and other companies have to force them to review their games under optimal conditions at their headquarters and provide them with lots of food and toys for them to realize that several JRPGs are released every year?
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
HK-47 said:
The author isn't acting like the DS doesn't exist, he's wishing it didn't. Which is almost as dumb.
SolidSnakex
Member
Nirolak said:
I never said it didn't sell to adults (at least in Japan). My point is that for them to appeal to adults in the west they would have to change DQ. But there's no reason for them to do that because they know their base and they know that it's a really huge base.
bistromathics
facing a bright new dawn
i know, right? gamasutra should be embarrassed for posting thisszaromir said:
To be fair, that thread ended with a guy telling everyone that JRPGs don't exist. This thread is starting that way. There is a progression of sorts.Relaxed Muscle said:
They average around, what, 40 hours? I'll bet people rack up that and more with online shooters. Why RPGs in particular? Every genre has its timesinks.Aaron said:
lucablight
Member
I miss the glory days where JRPGs populated the snes, ps and ps2.
I also think that the idea of the DS being some sort of JRPG king is way overrated (for western audiences anyway). How many great JRPGs does it have as of this moment?
FF3+ FF4r
DQ4+5
The world ends with you
The 2 Mario RPGs
Pokemon platinum
Chrono trigger
Some of these are just remakes or dated ports as well. How is this comparable to the snes-ps2 era?
I also think that the idea of the DS being some sort of JRPG king is way overrated (for western audiences anyway). How many great JRPGs does it have as of this moment?
FF3+ FF4r
DQ4+5
The world ends with you
The 2 Mario RPGs
Pokemon platinum
Chrono trigger
Some of these are just remakes or dated ports as well. How is this comparable to the snes-ps2 era?
NeonZ
Member
I think the main problem with JRPGs this gen (in consoles) was the lack of big title released only one or two years after the beginning of the generation.
That game would drive sales and, eventually, some peoplemight buy other similar games after they're finished with the main title. There was no new highly sucessful RPG franchise and FFXIII just took too long.
That game would drive sales and, eventually, some peoplemight buy other similar games after they're finished with the main title. There was no new highly sucessful RPG franchise and FFXIII just took too long.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Your definition of "great" is going to colour that argument severely. I think the SNES only had five great RPGs, at least as far as NA releases, which you seem to be going by.lucablight said:
The PSX had probably eight great RPGs.
The PS2 had about, ehn, we'll say eight (to be safe) great RPGs.
Now, we could bat back and forth about what qualifies as "great", and I'd certainly make some additions to your list that you would disagree with, then you would make some additions to my lists that I would disagree with, but I think it's safe to say the point is arguable, at the very least.
archnemesis
Member
Why the DS Rocks - Official Game Recommendation Thread | RPGs & Action RPGslucablight said:
Why the DS Rocks - Official Game Recommendation Thread | Strategy Games & Strategy RPGs
You're forgetting about gems like Etrian Odyssey and Devil Survivor.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Lol, the fact that he considers Zelda to be an RPG invalidates his argument entierly :lol Zelda is an action adventure like God of War and Shadow of the Colossus, not an RPG (Or is SOTC a JRPG now?)
Also why are handheld RPGs a bad thing now?
Also why are handheld RPGs a bad thing now?
lucablight
Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
You make a fair point but but even so I would still maintain that the library of the DS cannot compare to the snes, ps and ps2 when it comes to JRPGs.
lucablight
Member
archnemesis said:
Alot of the RPGs listed in those threads aren't even out in the west and may never be released.
Also personally I would categorise strategy rpgs in a whole different category.
This paragraph bothered me. Apart from the general "Japan is doomed" slant of the article (all too reminiscent of the old "Nintendo is doomed" canard), I object to the idea that JRPG are for kids, but Western games supposedly are not. WRPGs may not be targeted at 13 year olds, but they are at 19 year olds. The same goes for the ever popular FPS genre; most clearly targeted at teenagers; the X-Box crowd. Very few of such Western games could ever be described as "serious".
It bothers me when the suggestion is made (chiefly by Americans) that Japanese games need to be more like Western games, when they emphatically should not. There is far too little variation at the top end of the gaming spectrum as it is. The thing to take away from Demon's Souls is experimentation, not emulation.
Any thread even slightly related to JRPG's on GAF is always a scary place, but in my opinion we're about to see them become extremely popular again, so this was very IGN out of character for Gamasutra.
Not only will FFXIII, FFXIII Versus and FFXIV be really successful, but Demon's Souls is already beginning to usher in renewed interest to the genre. I know it's not a typical JRPG, but that's how I feel.
Not only will FFXIII, FFXIII Versus and FFXIV be really successful, but Demon's Souls is already beginning to usher in renewed interest to the genre. I know it's not a typical JRPG, but that's how I feel.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Isn't it kind of obvious why "big box" JRPG's are less common and high profile than they were in the PS1/PS2 eras?
The reason why games are so expensive to produce nowadays is mainly due to the elevated cost of making HD-quality graphical assets. And what's the single most asset heavy type of title you can make? - A JRPG.
D'oh.
You want the full enchilada, then you better expect to spend a lot of time/money in development. And if you're spending that sort of money, you better have a solid IP to work from or you're blowing a AAA budget on a niche title, which isn't the safest move for your company.
Alternatively, you downscale your ambitions and work on a cheaper platform with a massive install base (hello, NDS), or you try the MMORPG sector which at least has the benefit of long-term revenue generation if its successful.
The reason why games are so expensive to produce nowadays is mainly due to the elevated cost of making HD-quality graphical assets. And what's the single most asset heavy type of title you can make? - A JRPG.
D'oh.
You want the full enchilada, then you better expect to spend a lot of time/money in development. And if you're spending that sort of money, you better have a solid IP to work from or you're blowing a AAA budget on a niche title, which isn't the safest move for your company.
Alternatively, you downscale your ambitions and work on a cheaper platform with a massive install base (hello, NDS), or you try the MMORPG sector which at least has the benefit of long-term revenue generation if its successful.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Any section of the market can be safely ignored. Heck, even the majority of the market, as we're seeing this gen. But if you choose to ignore a section of the market, it's kind of a copout to whine that you're missing the games that are being delivered to the section you're ignoring.Prine said:
Now, I get what you're saying, that you want the big budget, big presentation RPGs, and the DS is definitely not going to give you those, but that's the way it is. It doesn't mean JRPGs have disappeared. They're alive and well, just not for you. Given JRPG sales are still pretty much what they ever were, though, I don't think you can say you're representative of any sort of large part of the market.
JRPG:s have been targeted to young people in the past too. But that's not saying much about their suitability for any certain group of age. I'm pretty sure the JRPG:s of old didn't feel anything like the ones of today even if they had the same age rating. The lack of morning cartoonish voice acting, "dramatic" cut-scene directing and character models that reveal themselves to be pretty embarrassing most of the time, are a huge factor in my opinion. The old sprites left much to be filled by the players imagination. And the same can be said with the old 3D models.
JRPG:s of old feel much more mature than the ones we have today. (exceptions happen)
Demons Souls is a leap to the right direction.
No it doesn't. I remember all my friends calling the old Zeldas RPG:s back in the days. Just a matter of preference.
JRPG:s of old feel much more mature than the ones we have today. (exceptions happen)
Demons Souls is a leap to the right direction.
No it doesn't. I remember all my friends calling the old Zeldas RPG:s back in the days. Just a matter of preference.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
bistromathics said:doesn't gamasutra have a "blogs" section?
This is the kind of sensational, traffic-driving stuff stuff I hate about blogs and game sites and didn't really expect from gamasutra.
It's part of an annoying trend over there of a guy doing RESEARCH!!! yet there's a noticable logic leap between what he presents and what he garners from that as opinion. Note the "It's Over Johnny!" section especially.
I think the problem that the 'west' has with JRPG's is the same problem that I have with them. I still like to play Illusion of Gaia/Time and other JRPG's from the 'good old days'. I also play some RPG's on the DS like Pokemon, Chrono Trigger and such. These games had dialog to be sure but not CG movies that take up more screen time than the games themselves. Demon's Souls didn't have that many cutscenes either. They should tell the story with the game, not have a bunch of meaningless NPC's say some bullshit and add to that with CG movies and books for you to read.
The DS is popular as an RPG system because the stories are told in the games and not in some cringeworthy badly translated "HAHAHA" CG movie.
The DS is popular as an RPG system because the stories are told in the games and not in some cringeworthy badly translated "HAHAHA" CG movie.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
No joke, this article is completely horrible and significantly lowers my opinion of gamasutra.
I agree with everything Segata said.
I agree with everything Segata said.
lucablight said:
The unreleased RPGs listed there: Final Fantasy Gaiden (likely to be released next year), 7th Dragon (likely to be released next year), Blue Dragon (scheduled for release next year), Dragon Quest VI (confirmed for localization), Dragon Quest IX (likely to be released next year), Fantasy Life (may not be localized), Golden Sun (confirmed for localization), Inazuma Eleven (getting an English localization next year), Inazuma Eleven 2 (wait for the first one to come out), Infinite Space (coming out in March), Ninokuni (localization prospects TBD), Pokemon HG/SS (coming out in March), London Life (unless it's cut from the game, it'll be localized when NoA/NoE gets to the 4th Layton), SaGa 2 (localization prospects TBD), Sands of Destruction (comes out in 2 weeks), Shin Megami Tensei (comes out in March), Sigma Harmonics (not being localized), Soma Bringer (not being localized), and the Tales games (not being localized).
So you're right that a lot have not been localized yet, but you're not right that a lot may never be. Only a few won't be. The vast majority of the rest will be out in 2010... which is kind of contrary to the point that the DS is quickly dying off. Its 2010 RPG release calendar is stacked. As long as Japanese developers continue to make lots of RPGs for the DS each year, it will be in a perpetual state of having lots of unlocalized RPGs, but that's just a healthy side effect of continuing to exist.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
ethelred said:
Off topic, I have to think that this will be localized, given that Ghibli's name actually carries some weight in America thanks to the oscar attention given to Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle. Purely speculation, of course, it just seems like an opportunity that someone will jump on.