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GamePass - Troubles emerging? MS no longer revealing subscription numbers
- Thread starter James Sawyer Ford
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Guys, general advice. One group will say "Gamepass is dead", while the other says "Concern trolling". That leads to nowhere. Please avoid that.
This is actually a good topic -- not just about Gamepass but also what and why companies choose to reveal, their pattern for revealing and hiding numbers, what's important for the industry, how the industry is evolving based on the metrics companies choose to reveal, etc.
The conversation can be -- and should be -- more nuanced.
This is actually a good topic -- not just about Gamepass but also what and why companies choose to reveal, their pattern for revealing and hiding numbers, what's important for the industry, how the industry is evolving based on the metrics companies choose to reveal, etc.
The conversation can be -- and should be -- more nuanced.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Thesuffering79
Banned
It seems that the PS4 must have done terrible since Sony dont announce numbers for their PS4 sales, 10s of millions of ps4s must be at the warehouses.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Very good point, but my counter is: It would be tough for companies to show % growth YoY because of how awesome 2020 was for them, because of the pandemic as well as console launch year.
However, they can also do absolute numbers. For example, "Gamepass now has 22 million subscribers." That'd be a slower growth (4 million in 6 months vs. 3 million in 3 months previously), but it would still be good.
Besides, as this subscription moves forward, it will be tougher and tougher to increase the subscriber base. Initially, it was relatively easy, because (1) they were/are still converting Xbox Live Gold users for just $1, and (2) It is easier to go from 1 to 10 million than it is to go from 50 million to 60 million. See how Sony has been struggling to breach the 50 million subscriber mark with PS+.
In that case, there will be a gradual decline anyway. Doesn't mean they won't be sharing numbers in the future.
Tommi84
Member
Sony moved their focus to PS5. Where dit MS moved to then?
DryvBy
Member
I've only signed up for $1 events. Since GamePass popped, I've paid maybe $5 and its usually only used to demo stuff enough and see if I want it. If I like it, I just buy it on Steam or PS/Xbox/Switch physical. But I always end my sub because I have no desire to rent video games for that much.
kyliethicc
Member
Xbox Game Pass Focuses On “Player Engagement” More Than Numbers, Phil Spencer Says
Head of Xbox Phil Spencer provides some valuable insights on the inner workings of Xbox Game Pass and how the platform measures its growth.
Who needs subscribers anymore lol
Schrade
Member
I think it was from numbskull like Jeff Grubb or something.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Jez Cordon (unofficially) said that GP now has 21 million subs, as of March 31, 2021.
Official numbers are still 18 million though, and hasn't been updated for 6 months now (18 million was revealed by MS in January 2021).
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ArtemisClydeFrog
Banned
Microsoft is fucking DONE. I'm throwing my GAMEPASS away now, this is disgusting.
MrFunSocks
Banned
No it isn't lol. It's 100% just a concern trolling thread aimed at MS. Not surprising you're going to bat for it, but it is what it is.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
I thought all Game Pass comments went into the official topic. 
No news is bad news apparently so I suppose I'd better enjoy it while I can. Might not be available tomorrow. 
No news is bad news apparently so I suppose I'd better enjoy it while I can. Might not be available tomorrow. 
Justin9mm
Member
I'm not saying there is any cause for concern here but we all know Gamepass is a massive gamble and they are investing a huge amount of money into this for what we know currently has very little return at the moment. They are banking on growing the subscription base and hooking everyone in before they raise their prices.
This current(new) gen has had Sony come out swinging and I don't believe they are where they want to be yet.. Which I suspect includes the GP numbers hence the silence.
This current(new) gen has had Sony come out swinging and I don't believe they are where they want to be yet.. Which I suspect includes the GP numbers hence the silence.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Absolutely not. With the tag of 'concern trolling', every conversation will be shut off that way. People won't be able to discuss Returnal sales or GP subscribers or PS5/XSX/Switch sales units. It is after all a discussion forum, my friend, and discussions should be promoted.
We all know that GP is growing. And it is the most important metric for MS/Xbox now that they don't reveal console sales. They haven't updated these numbers for the last 6 months. There will be questions. To brush off those questions as 'concern trolling' is not fair.
There could be valid arguments why MS hasn't revealed those numbers (either low numbers or they are very good and Xbox is going to make a big splash with that announcement around Fall 2021, for example).
Utherellus
Member
What?... Concern? How you even come up with things like this.
They are clearly waiting for major 30 million milestone so its pretty big and round number for PR.
They are clearly waiting for major 30 million milestone so its pretty big and round number for PR.
MrFunSocks
Banned
It's concern trolling.
MS do not have to give you the metrics that you want. When will people understand this?
Memorabilia
Member
These Sony fan boy concern troll threads are always good for a laugh. 
BigLee74
Member
Nah, no it’s not.
You just need to look at the chosen title for the thread, see who the OP is, and realise this is 100% a troll thread to entice wars again.
nekrik
Member
I have a 36month subscription on my XsX (Cost me one euro to convert from 36m gold) and the genreal feeling is: There are AAA games yes, but we've had those on pc for a while now and i've finished them all there! Also there are too much mediocre and indie games which are getting boring after a couple of hours. So i can only see me playing those new MS studio games which will come out eventually and maybe some day one very good indie or AA releases in the future!
Shmunter
Member
Who else to crate Xbox related threads? Xbox fans are all too busy playing Xcloud. Am right?These Sony fan boy concern troll threads are always good for a laugh.
anthony2690
Banned
I can imagine they are waiting for the 30 million subs mark, what I can imagine they could hit with halo infinite and Forza horizon 5 at the end of the year.
TheDreadLord
Gold Member
They say in the same article that GP offset the decline in third party revenue. So I guess the service is fine but not growing as was in 2020.
supernova8
Banned
Bit like how it wasn't all about the power when PS4 was more powerful than XB1 and then as soon as XB1X came out Microsoft is like:
Or like how Microsoft didn't seem bothered about cross-play until they start losing in unit sales and then they were like:
But yeah all in jest. Companies do this shit all the time, they disclose when it suits them and suddenly don't when it doesn't. It's not shocking but kinda lame because plenty of companies even report user numbers etc. (not necessarily in gaming/tech, more like other sectors) on a monthly basis without fail every single month regardless of how good/bad they are.
Or like how Microsoft didn't seem bothered about cross-play until they start losing in unit sales and then they were like:
But yeah all in jest. Companies do this shit all the time, they disclose when it suits them and suddenly don't when it doesn't. It's not shocking but kinda lame because plenty of companies even report user numbers etc. (not necessarily in gaming/tech, more like other sectors) on a monthly basis without fail every single month regardless of how good/bad they are.
Raekwon26
Member
TBiddy
Member
If OP really wanted a "nuanced" discussion, he would have to be a lot less obvious in his concern trolling.
ArtemisClydeFrog
Banned
Shmunter
Member
“It’s not the future we wanted, it’s the future we deserved” - movie trailer guy
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Didn't say that this particular thread was good or not, but I thought it was a good topic of discussion, especially if we include other metrics and companies/platforms to have a wider discussion.
Anyway, I tried to reason with both sides and asked to avoid trolling and have a nuanced discussion, but after seeing some of the responses I have a feeling where it's going, so I am out.
Memorabilia
Member
Yup yup, the same Warrior tools with too much time on their hands who have been hoping, praying and crying into their crystal balls that Xbox is going to die "any day now" for the past 8+ years, amirite?Who else to crate Xbox related threads? Xbox fans are all too busy playing Xcloud. Am right?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
They did mention in the PR that GP saw growth.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think it will pick up again with exclusives finally coming out. Flight sim, ascent, forza horizon and halo in the next 3-4 months are going to increase numbers for sure.
I thought MLB the show wouldve earned them a lot of subs but i guess its not a big enough game worldwide. outriders is no gears of war. i think they missed a trick by not getting resident evil 8. you need those kind of big games to really make a splash.
Even if they are still at 20 million subs, you are looking at $200 million per month in revenue, no? they cant buy re8 with that? re franchise tops out at around 5 million and xbox versions usually sell around 2 million so for $120 million, i think capcom wouldve let it go.
i think it was just a rough six months for ms with barely any decent games coming out in the first half so it makes sense that they didnt get too many new subscribers. that said, i dont think its a cause for concern just yet. lets wait and see if forza and halo see a sustained bump.
the silver lining is that MS will soon realize that they cant just coast by like they did last gen with long stretches of no exclusives. they will need a big game every month to keep people subbed. its why we see netflix, amazon and hbo offering people $200 million to make stuff. For every bad month, they give their subscribers one more reason to opt out. they dont have any competitors like netflix has with disney, hbo and amazon, but they will need big games on a regular basis regardless.
next year, they have two bethesda games. redfall and starfield. not good enough. they need to go out and get at least six big AAA titles on day one. avatar, maybe? EA has fuck all coming out next year. sony ended up getting ff16 and forspoken for at least 2 years. Oh Elder Rings! MS HAS to get it. at any cost. if they have to pay $200 million then so be it. they should have at least 25 million subs after halo and forza, that;s $250 million a month, put it towards getting elden rings.
Here are some of the titles MS needs to get next year to get the kind of growth netflix was able to generate:
- Avatar
- Elder Rings
- Suicide Squad
- Batman Gotham Knights
- A Plague's Tale 2
- Hogwarts Legacy
Then they can fill in the remaining months with their first party games.
- Starfield
- Redfall
- Stalker
- Deathloop (sonys 1 year exclusive should expire by august)
- Ghostwire tokyo (this might not make 2021 but if it does, it could be a gamepass title in 2022)
I think Avatar and Hogwarts Legacy are probably too expensive, but elder rings, gotham knights and plagues tale should be affordable. they should pay out of their ass to get suicide squad just to make a splash.
I thought MLB the show wouldve earned them a lot of subs but i guess its not a big enough game worldwide. outriders is no gears of war. i think they missed a trick by not getting resident evil 8. you need those kind of big games to really make a splash.
Even if they are still at 20 million subs, you are looking at $200 million per month in revenue, no? they cant buy re8 with that? re franchise tops out at around 5 million and xbox versions usually sell around 2 million so for $120 million, i think capcom wouldve let it go.
i think it was just a rough six months for ms with barely any decent games coming out in the first half so it makes sense that they didnt get too many new subscribers. that said, i dont think its a cause for concern just yet. lets wait and see if forza and halo see a sustained bump.
the silver lining is that MS will soon realize that they cant just coast by like they did last gen with long stretches of no exclusives. they will need a big game every month to keep people subbed. its why we see netflix, amazon and hbo offering people $200 million to make stuff. For every bad month, they give their subscribers one more reason to opt out. they dont have any competitors like netflix has with disney, hbo and amazon, but they will need big games on a regular basis regardless.
next year, they have two bethesda games. redfall and starfield. not good enough. they need to go out and get at least six big AAA titles on day one. avatar, maybe? EA has fuck all coming out next year. sony ended up getting ff16 and forspoken for at least 2 years. Oh Elder Rings! MS HAS to get it. at any cost. if they have to pay $200 million then so be it. they should have at least 25 million subs after halo and forza, that;s $250 million a month, put it towards getting elden rings.
Here are some of the titles MS needs to get next year to get the kind of growth netflix was able to generate:
- Avatar
- Elder Rings
- Suicide Squad
- Batman Gotham Knights
- A Plague's Tale 2
- Hogwarts Legacy
Then they can fill in the remaining months with their first party games.
- Starfield
- Redfall
- Stalker
- Deathloop (sonys 1 year exclusive should expire by august)
- Ghostwire tokyo (this might not make 2021 but if it does, it could be a gamepass title in 2022)
I think Avatar and Hogwarts Legacy are probably too expensive, but elder rings, gotham knights and plagues tale should be affordable. they should pay out of their ass to get suicide squad just to make a splash.
CuteFaceJay
Member
Aren't people starting to go back into the office now? The normies are't renewing that's all.
Memorabilia
Member
I would imagine steady growth is a given at this point, with spikes/peaks during and valleys between big release windows creating an overall upward sawtooth trend.
World events like Covid being perceived as "over" for a while have likely slowed down Game Pass growth as people go outside more, get back to "normal" work schedules, etc...but that trend is likely to reverse again as the Delta and newer variants proliferate and people move back inside for the winter.
It'll be interesting to see where the upper ceiling for Game Pass will end up.
At some point Sony will likely feel compelled to join in the fun. They're leaving too much money on the table. And we'll all be better off for it when they do. More revenue for developers, more money for Sony exclusives, etc...and it won't limit people who still prefer to buy their games.
On a personal note, as someone who has always preferred to buy/own physical games, I was pretty skeptical of Game Pass and even openly hostile to it initially...but I'm all in at this point.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
200M/mo assumes full price, I suspect true revenue is quite a bit shy of that. And it needs to offset lost sales of first party in retail.
you only hide the numbers when they aren’t up to your expectations - still growing, but more slowly. They will increase during the holiday I’m sure, but question is whether it will be enough to meet expectations.
services like Netflix lived due to extreme growth rates, signs of slowdown really irritate investors due to all the huge costs involved to obtain that growth
Putting RE8 on GP would be incredibly expensive. It sold 5M, if 1M of that is on Xbox consoles that’s around 40-50M in profit per sale for Capcom. And they’d have to account for higher adoption on GamePass by cross platform or PC owners that have GP. So maybe that would double their user base.
we are talking about 100M for one game… would it really be worth it? How many new subs would he expected from that one game?
Shmunter
Member
Who wants Xbox to die? I’m sure it’s nothing more than good ol console war spirited ribbing in the end.Yup yup, the same Warrior tools with too much time on their hands who have been hoping, praying and crying into their crystal balls that Xbox is going to die "any day now" for the past 8+ years, amirite?
Gamepass on the other hand should die tho, I oppose it on philosophical grounds . I love old school Xbox personally.
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