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Gaming has become the "you played yourself" gif and we have no one to blame but ourselves

GigaBowser

Gold Member
Where are the games with deep physics, interactive environments, incredible AI? It's a sad state when it's certain indie developers that are going the furthest to push this aspect of gaming. It's a sad state that Fear, nearly a 20 year old game has AI that puts nearly all modern games to shame. It's a sad state when Guerrilla: Red Faction still has better destructibility than anything on the market 12 years later. It's a sad state that a Nintendo game (BOTW) released in 2017 on inferior hardware probably has the best use of physics and environmental interactivity of any game ever released. It's not that these games were incredibly expensive to make, the developers just allocated more time into trying to make them.... you know? FUN.

We traded all of that in because the DF console war crowd just couldn't let go of "teh graphics, framerates, and resolutions" to besmirch each others consoles which has very much shaped our current predicament.

And yes it made a huge difference, companies in the PS4/Xbone/Wii U generation were absolutely crippled if their games fell short in head to head comparisons and didn't tick the right boxes with resolution and frame-rate.

What we're left with are graphics focused games with massively bloated budgets that have become GaaS nightmares just to make a return in investment. There's a lot fewer of them and there is a lot less risk in terms of genre (so generic as well). To make matters worse, I don't even feel the games look substantially better. There are exceptions here and there, but I can count them on one hand.

Maybe the industry was headed in this direction anyway, but I can't help but think we played ourselves.

 

TheGecko

Member
Just play the games you enjoy, old or new. Simple, If you no longer enjoy it go do something else, So much to do out there other than gaming. Many people get so caught up in it all.

I'm 41 and been mostly a pc gamer since I was 14. 4 weeks ago I sold my Ryzen 3950x and 3080 to a friend of mine who is a music producer. Right now I'm using my Mac and playing my old ps1 ps2 n64 when I feel like it.

Doing this has made me realise that yes modern games are shit, But the old stuff is still there, will always be there and theres no pressure to play anymore.
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
Don't mind me, i'll just keep playing Beamng here


 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Where are the games with deep physics, interactive environments, incredible AI? It's a sad state when it's certain indie developers that are going the furthest to push this aspect of gaming. It's a sad state that Fear, nearly a 20 year old game has AI that puts nearly all modern games to shame. It's a sad state when Guerrilla: Red Faction still has better destructibility than anything on the market 12 years later. It's a sad state that a Nintendo game (BOTW) released in 2017 on inferior hardware probably has the best use of physics and environmental interactivity of any game ever released. It's not that these games were incredibly expensive to make, the developers just allocated more time into trying to make them.... you know? FUN.

We traded all of that in because the DF console war crowd just couldn't let go of "teh graphics, framerates, and resolutions" to besmirch each others consoles which has very much shaped our current predicament.

And yes it made a huge difference, companies in the PS4/Xbone/Wii U generation were absolutely crippled if their games fell short in head to head comparisons and didn't tick the right boxes with resolution and frame-rate.

What we're left with are graphics focused games with massively bloated budgets that have become GaaS nightmares just to make a return in investment. There's a lot fewer of them and there is a lot less risk in terms of genre (so generic as well). To make matters worse, I don't even feel the games look substantially better. There are exceptions here and there, but I can count them on one hand.

Maybe the industry was headed in this direction anyway, but I can't help but think we played ourselves.


Yes, 2017. The good old days.
 

SlimySnake

Gold Member
Yeah, this is on the gamers. They jizz all over simple games with design rooted in the PS360 era, literally held back by 2005 era hardware, and gave publishers the sales and acclaim they craved. Now we are sitting here holding our dicks wondering just how we got here.

Next time be more critical. It's ok to bitch and whine as long as you do it constructively. Otherwise, they will keep shoving basic ass games down our throat.

The worst part is that unlike last gen when the CPUs and IO basically got no upgrade whatsoever, we finally have massive jump in CPU, IO, RAM and Graphics and yet no one is utilizing it. Literally no one.
 

Kacho

Member
Peak Giga Bowser thread

Where are the games with deep physics, interactive environments
Try SnowRunner

On topic, modern gaming is mostly shit but there's still plenty of good stuff coming. The narrative that everything is some GaaS, always-online multiplayer, MTX nightmare fuel is bogus. If literally nothing appeals to you or you're that jaded just go play old ROMs or learn an instrument. I dunno, man?
 
I never bought a single game because of Digital Foundry, I pay attention to it out of curiosity but I couldn't care less when actually playing, I think most people are like that and their importance is massively overblown.

Any risk with AAA games is a huge liability, try anything different and you might find yourself in a controversy that could cost a lot of money. But the huge production value is a way to rise above the competition and it raises the baseline of how big of a failure your game can be, it's also one of the few aspects that publishers can actually have some control over.

Publisher love GaaS so much because anything goes and even if your game bombs on release you still have a chance to salvage your investment.
 
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I assume you're talking about the thread replies disagreeing with me, otherwise tell me about all these great games you're looking forward to that push the medium forward.
How would you know in advance? That is true even in the indie space, do you know the indie games that will break out next year? The ones that are going to be truly special?

Do I care that FFXVI or GoW Ragnarok are unlikely to revolutionize anything? No, they just look damn good and worth my money. Will Zelda BoTW2 be as influential as the first one? No idea but I bet it's going to be great.
 
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recursive

Member
Where are the games with deep physics, interactive environments, incredible AI? It's a sad state when it's certain indie developers that are going the furthest to push this aspect of gaming. It's a sad state that Fear, nearly a 20 year old game has AI that puts nearly all modern games to shame. It's a sad state when Guerrilla: Red Faction still has better destructibility than anything on the market 12 years later. It's a sad state that a Nintendo game (BOTW) released in 2017 on inferior hardware probably has the best use of physics and environmental interactivity of any game ever released. It's not that these games were incredibly expensive to make, the developers just allocated more time into trying to make them.... you know? FUN.

We traded all of that in because the DF console war crowd just couldn't let go of "teh graphics, framerates, and resolutions" to besmirch each others consoles which has very much shaped our current predicament.

And yes it made a huge difference, companies in the PS4/Xbone/Wii U generation were absolutely crippled if their games fell short in head to head comparisons and didn't tick the right boxes with resolution and frame-rate.

What we're left with are graphics focused games with massively bloated budgets that have become GaaS nightmares just to make a return in investment. There's a lot fewer of them and there is a lot less risk in terms of genre (so generic as well). To make matters worse, I don't even feel the games look substantially better. There are exceptions here and there, but I can count them on one hand.

Maybe the industry was headed in this direction anyway, but I can't help but think we played ourselves.

I agree with most of what you said but at some point framerate has to be a priority. 30fps locked should be the minimum target before advanced physics and AI and many games struggled with that on console hardware in the previous generations. Ideally 60fps would be the target.
 

Wildebeest

Member
Physics was a fad in game development for a while and honestly was overrated as a gimmick because it was on trend. I don't know what the trend is in gaming right now. Probably milking the wallets of people you think are idiots for all they are worth, so you can retire early.
 
Yeah, this is on the gamers. They jizz all over simple games with design rooted in the PS360 era, literally held back by 2005 era hardware, and gave publishers the sales and acclaim they craved. Now we are sitting here holding our dicks wondering just how we got here.

Next time be more critical. It's ok to bitch and whine as long as you do it constructively. Otherwise, they will keep shoving basic ass games down our throat.

The worst part is that unlike last gen when the CPUs and IO basically got no upgrade whatsoever, we finally have massive jump in CPU, IO, RAM and Graphics and yet no one is utilizing it. Literally no one.
We are still getting mostly crossgen games, so there is that as but If we are being honest game design hasn't been held back by hardware in a long time.

Sure, new hardware can make it easier to do certain things but at a fundamental level what couldn't be done in a PS4 that a PS5 can do? Better AI, physics, interactivity is going to require a lot more than computational power, it will require manpower.

VR is where the most interesting things are happening in the past few years.
 
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Belthazar

Member
People are allowed to want different things from games and there's space for high end graphics and other inovations in the industry.... As you said yourself indies are filling that void well, so play them if you're willing to.

There's space for all kinds of games and there's people wanting to play them all.
 

Kuranghi

Gold Member
I think games can be artisically/thematically awesome and well put together and not advance graphics or physics or the like, many of my favourites games from the last 10 years are like that: The Stanley Parable, BotW, Hitman 2016/2018, Just Cause 3, The Witness, Mad Max, The Talos Principle, Ghost of Tsushima, Arkham Knight, AC: Unity, AC: Black Flag, Horizon: ZD/FW, MGS V: The Phantom Pain to name a few.

Most of those were just culminations of design of previous games in the series/other titles in the same genre, do we need to have epoch-making games every year? I guess it helps if you can enjoy things for different reasons, like graphics, gameplay, story, characters, etc. I don't need every game to have everything be a step forward, just like with films. Some of my favourite films have elements that are shit compared to other films, but they work to their strengths.
 
I know OP. I always lived for the AAA games that pushed what didn't seem possible before in terms of scale, complexity, physics, interactivity, and ambition. Mario 64 & Ocarina of Time on the N64. Shenmue on the Dreamcast. ICO and Shadow of the Colossus on the PS2. Half Life 2 and Portal on the PC. Skyrim, GTA IV, Burnout Paradise, God of War 3, Uncharted 2 on the PS360. Many of these felt like a glimpse into the future. They felt like where games were going, and soon games would evolve beyond these. Instead, the needle hasn't moved much if at all since then, going backwards even, and some of these games remain kinda unique in what they offer instead of commonplace as I hoped.

To be fair Red Dead Redemption 2 is as complex and as ambitious as anything I've listed, but that feels more like a feat of R* having more money, time, talent, and manpower than a result of innovation that can be carried elsewhere. Cyberpunk aside, the most insane promise of something truly next gen turned out also to be a lie: Beyond Good and Evil 2.

Don't mind me, i'll just keep playing Beamng here


This proves OP's point. This should be standard in AAA games with vehicles, but instead it's in a indie physics simulator. Fun, but I wish it were more than that.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
I wish every game with realistic vehicles had physics like BeamNG, which I always viewed as a proof of concept of what could be in bigger games.
That kind of physics wouldn't work conceptually on every game tho, not to mention how heavy on the CPU it is.
I think most that can be taken here is the use of soft body physics to more accurately represent car damage, though it still wouldn't be on the same level with just that alone.
 

Doom85

Member
What happened to just playing the games you enjoy and saying fuck off to all the unnecessary drama? I know.....mad concept right?

This Up Here GIF by Chord Overstreet


Like, for example, yes, I’m in the camp that much enjoyed Elden Ring over Breath of the Wild. Did BOTW push what gaming could do more? Possibly. Did others enjoy BOTW more than Elden Ring? Sure, and that’s fine. But what I personally enjoyed more is what it is, and I didn’t “play myself” by having those experiences.
 

Matsuchezz

Member
It all depends what you expect to get from games. I am for sure not interested in games with deep physics, interactive environments, incredible AI. I care more about a good story, great acting, awesome developed characters and excellent art among some other things. I get no fun from a car falling apart in thousands of pieces or simulated water. Awesome looking effects are always welcomed but those not make a game fun at least for me. Everyone has their own particular way to have fun.
 

rofif

Gold Member
That impress me more graphically than all the PS5 games I played so far.
Beamng looks like trash. It’s just the impressive physics. But even that is questionable with all the clipping and so on. Great fun though.

For me the problem is huge dev times and very little releases. And indie games are depression simulators. There is great stuff but look at 2011 and it’s like wtf is going on.
Tbh the best game I played last year was the forgotten city. One of few indie games not about pixels or depression
 
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killatopak

Gold Member
Simple answer is priorities.

Do we really need a complicated function when we can invest it in a much more general and visually striking application.

For this gen, framerate and RT seems to be all the rage.

You see more of what you want on indies and lesser graphical games simply because they cannot push the visuals further either through budget or techical constraints which is why they try to cover ground elsewhere to compensate.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It’s like some of you have battered spouse syndrome.. you hate everything but can’t bring yourself to leave.
Gamers can be insanely dramatic about shit but you are right the endless old man yelling at cloud types kinda have that vibe lol
 

Rat Rage

Member
Where are the games with deep physics, interactive environments, incredible AI? It's a sad state when it's certain indie developers that are going the furthest to push this aspect of gaming. It's a sad state that Fear, nearly a 20 year old game has AI that puts nearly all modern games to shame. It's a sad state when Guerrilla: Red Faction still has better destructibility than anything on the market 12 years later. It's a sad state that a Nintendo game (BOTW) released in 2017 on inferior hardware probably has the best use of physics and environmental interactivity of any game ever released. It's not that these games were incredibly expensive to make, the developers just allocated more time into trying to make them.... you know? FUN.

We traded all of that in because the DF console war crowd just couldn't let go of "teh graphics, framerates, and resolutions" to besmirch each others consoles which has very much shaped our current predicament.

And yes it made a huge difference, companies in the PS4/Xbone/Wii U generation were absolutely crippled if their games fell short in head to head comparisons and didn't tick the right boxes with resolution and frame-rate.

What we're left with are graphics focused games with massively bloated budgets that have become GaaS nightmares just to make a return in investment. There's a lot fewer of them and there is a lot less risk in terms of genre (so generic as well). To make matters worse, I don't even feel the games look substantially better. There are exceptions here and there, but I can count them on one hand.

Maybe the industry was headed in this direction anyway, but I can't help but think we played ourselves.


The so called "AAA" (mostly AAA 3rd party developers) have figured out the same thing Hollywood has figure out a long time ago: if you create generic, mediocre shit, but make it flashy as possible (e.g. most Marvel movies these days or Star Wars or Jurassic World), the stupid masses will gladly eat your shit up and you'll make a ton of money. Producing CGI is way less complicated than actually coming up with good stories and ideas or artistically pushing yourself. Instead, relying on run of the mill stories and ideas and doing everything in front of a green screen is way easier.
However, it's no surprise that there are still some exceptions like you mention, for example Nintendo's BoTW, because that isn't "just" a game, Nintendo EPD had to push themselves with the develpment and make it as awesome as possible, because it serves, or better, needs to serve as one of the their essential system sellers to Nintendo. So I guess there is still hope with first party titles.
 

K' Dash

Member
we've been playing the same games over and over since 2007, aside from some of them that excel in a specific area like some of the examples you posted OP.

completely agree.
 

Fbh

Member
While I still enjoy games a lot, yeah it's a shame that size, graphics and resolution have been the focus of gaming innovation in the AAA space. In many way it feels like we are still getting nicer looking/smoother Ps3 games, but not much more.

It's always sad to see the OT for a new game at like 2 pages and some Digital Foundry thread with 35 pages of people arguing over a 10% difference in resolution or some shit like that.
 
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