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GamingBolt: What The Hell Is Going On With Xbox Game Studios?

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They started their buys from mid 2018 (with Ninja Theory, Obsidian and others) and then InXile in Q4 2018. Bethesda wasn't until 2020.
You haven't learnt that AAA development takes time?
Stop making excuses for them, why can the other console makers who have less resources pump out more games consistently?

Of course, game development takes time but they got to manage things better. Just look at Halo Infinite, 343 is a huge studio and they still can't get things together.
 
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Ozriel

Member
Stop making excuses for them, why can the other console makers who have less resources pump out more games consistently?

At the other console makers, how many studios are putting out AAA games in less than 4 years? Especially new IP?

Was it ‘mismanagement’ when Sucker Punch took 5+ years to make Ghost of Tsushima after releasing Infamous First Light? Or the nearly 5 years between Horizon Zero Dawn and Forbidden West? Or the approx 4.5 years between both titles if Ragnarok lands in Q4 this year?

It's all about timing. Same way Sony's slate being relatively dry for the first couple of years of the PS4 was no indication about the quality of their first party studios. Studios like Obsidian and ID software had 2019 and 2020 releases, for example.

Stating facts isn't 'excuses'.
 

Topher

Gold Member
At the other console makers, how many studios are putting out AAA games in less than 4 years? Especially new IP?

Was it ‘mismanagement’ when Sucker Punch took 5+ years to make Ghost of Tsushima after releasing Infamous First Light? Or the nearly 5 years between Horizon Zero Dawn and Forbidden West? Or the approx 4.5 years between both titles if Ragnarok lands in Q4 this year?

It's all about timing. Same way Sony's slate being relatively dry for the first couple of years of the PS4 was no indication about the quality of their first party studios. Studios like Obsidian and ID software had 2019 and 2020 releases, for example.

Stating facts isn't 'excuses'.

Releasing games every 4 to 5 years is fine when you have enough studios that are producing regularly. As you've pointed out, the problem has been Microsoft's previous lack of studios. The purchase of Bethesda immediately inserted titles coming from Microsoft's first party, however, they ironically were to Sony's benefit. Going forward Bethesda's output will obviously benefit Microsoft platforms first and foremost. Outside of Playground and perhaps Ninja Theory, the other acquisitions are not as mature as Bethesda. The smaller studios like InXile, Undead labs, and Compulsion are going to need to time to put Microsoft's funding to use, I would imagine, to create games at the level Microsoft expects. Not an excuse, it just is what it is.
 

Ozriel

Member
Releasing games every 4 to 5 years is fine when you have enough studios that are producing regularly. As you've pointed out, the problem has been Microsoft's previous lack of studios. The purchase of Bethesda immediately inserted titles coming from Microsoft's first party, however, they ironically were to Sony's benefit. Going forward Bethesda's output will obviously benefit Microsoft platforms first and foremost. Outside of Playground and perhaps Ninja Theory, the other acquisitions are not as mature as Bethesda. The smaller studios like InXile, Undead labs, and Compulsion are going to need to time to put Microsoft's funding to use, I would imagine, to create games at the level Microsoft expects. Not an excuse, it just is what it is.

Good points. I'd probably add Obsidian, for example, to the mature list. Avowed is widely expected to be a 2023 release, and there's reports of two other games being developed in parallel there.

The ones that might take a bit more time are those just getting scaled up for AAA development. Like you've rightly pointed out with Undead Labs and possibly InXile.

I think this 'E3' will help to reset our calibration of these releases. Because surely, they have to announce release windows for many of their upcoming games.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
IKR, the position of the "concerned" is a strange one. It could fit more if all of the growth at XGS was via creating brand new studios and teams, but with the growth coming from acquisitions of proven studios, I don't get it. I guess they figure these studios forgot how to develop software once that new banner got added in. 🤷‍♂️

Exactly. There is quite literally zero reason to be worried about any of Xbox's studios and teams. They will either make games that they are choosing to make, or they simply won't and the resources will go elsewhere. That's all there is to it. This standard where not one person, be it a current or former employee, that has ever worked at a game studio should ever be upset or disappointed about something regarding their work at said studio, or else it means the studio is automatically in trouble and unable to make a great game, is funny to me.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Exactly. There is quite literally zero reason to be worried about any of Xbox's studios and teams. They will either make games that they are choosing to make, or they simply won't and the resources will go elsewhere. That's all there is to it. This standard where not one person, be it a current or former employee, that has ever worked at a game studio should ever be upset or disappointed about something regarding their work at said studio, or else it means the studio is automatically in trouble and unable to make a great game, is funny to me.
The track record for the actual Microsoft Game Studios is not really that great. Bethesda is going to be fine. Acti-Blizz could be a nightmare tho.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
I disagree.

Microsoft Game Studios include Ninja Theory, Obsidian, InXile, Coalition, Rare, Mojang, 343, Playground, Turn 10 among others. Solid studios with great track record for the most part.
Slow down speeder. Not so fast.

When you see the story of MS/Xbox game development in full context, you can not underscore enough how fucked up their decisions have affected the Xbox brand and until this very moment, those decisions are still affecting Xbox Game Development output.

Of course, they have bright spots in all this mess. Imagine if not.
 
I have justifiably very little faith in MS managing studios, there's just a terrible track record of mismanagement that spans years and years at this point (with Phil Spencer being in charge for ages).

You can buy all the studios and publishers you want but if you fail get the most out of them it doesn't really work.

Of all MS studios and IPs Forza with Turn 10/Playground seem like the only success story since the 360 days (and they even milked that IP as much as possible).
 
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Loope

Member
I still don't get it how this threads attract so many people that won't never buy a console of them. It's just mind boggling that you enter a thread on purpose to shit on fucking thing you will never buy. I know many of those are just useful idiots, but still...
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
I still don't get it how this threads attract so many people that won't never buy a console of them. It's just mind boggling that you enter a thread on purpose to shit on fucking thing you will never buy. I know many of those are just useful idiots, but still...
It's for the same reason people like to argue/debate/have conversations about any topic. Like the Box Office, Electric Cars, Sports, Politics, Religion, Economics etcetera.
 

DarkMage619

Member
I still don't get it how this threads attract so many people that won't never buy a console of them. It's just mind boggling that you enter a thread on purpose to shit on fucking thing you will never buy. I know many of those are just useful idiots, but still...
I completely agree. You'd think if the platform you dislike so much was in trouble you'd just sit back and watch it fail and disappear as you continue to enjoy your preferred device. Alas as the great Concern Concern said "I don't love my favorite console I hate yours." It was true when he first said it, still true now.
 
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ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
I completely agree. You'd think if the platform you dislike so much was in trouble you'd just sit back and watch it fail and disappear as you continue to enjoy your preferred device. Alas as the great Concern Concern said "I don't love my favorite console I hate yours." It was true when he first said it, still true now.
Of course, some people are going to operate with that mentality. Nevertheless; conversations/debates/analyses/opinions are just part of a forum, Right?
 

avin

Member
Well, the quality of those conversations and debates will determine the quality of the forum. Here, there's a fair quota of people who think clearly, look for interesting facts, and make interesting posts. And there is an absolute shit ton of crud. At a new forum, I usually end up compiling a list of people that need to be ignored, because they never say anything of value. Here, I sometimes think it'll take longer than MS's first-party output from their new acquisitions.

avin
 
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Ozriel

Member
Slow down speeder. Not so fast.

When you see the story of MS/Xbox game development in full context, you can not underscore enough how fucked up their decisions have affected the Xbox brand and until this very moment, those decisions are still affecting Xbox Game Development output.

Of course, they have bright spots in all this mess. Imagine if not.

No idea what this has to do with what we were discussing.
 

SoraNoKuni

Member
All these metacritic arguments, yeah they delivered polished good games, is any of those games generation defining or even memorable though? Surely there is the argument that I, personally dgaf about those games, still I stand by my point.

Even their "flagship" halo was mediocre, they are a lot better than their XONE era but they definitely don't push the medium, like the other 2 players, Sony and Nintendo which deliver memorable unique experiences.

They'll get there I am sure, but please stop pretending like the metacritic scores made them the king of gaming.
 
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dcmk7

Member
I completely agree. You'd think if the platform you dislike so much was in trouble you'd just sit back and watch it fail and disappear as you continue to enjoy your preferred device. Alas as the great Concern Concern said "I don't love my favorite console I hate yours." It was true when he first said it, still true now.
Ironically the blatant troll Concern Concern was permed for threatening to beat up someone because they were making fun of his favourite console.
 

Zeroing

Gold Member
I still don't get it how this threads attract so many people that won't never buy a console of them. It's just mind boggling that you enter a thread on purpose to shit on fucking thing you will never buy. I know many of those are just useful idiots, but still...
Or, in my case you have an Xbox series X but you can’t make a simple joke because everyone here is a snowflake and get their feelings hurt!

- you’re not part of the group if you are critical or make jokes about the brand!
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
No idea what this has to do with what we were discussing.
Well, there you go. Context is important to have a more nuanced and wide perspective in any topic.

Just a refresher. Back in the second half of the 360 era, Xbox didn't invest in First Party Studios, instead, rely too much on third-party collaboration especially Call Of Duty. A meme was born as well: Halo, Forza,Gears. Do you remember?. You also had bad decisions made with the Fable IP and Halo fans were not that happy with 343i output.

But everything was fine and dandy...Until de PS4 generation. The main Xbox criticism starting to gain strength:

Lack of Fisrt Party AAA New IP GOTY contenders.

In the One era, Xbox had a rather pathetic output of First/second party games and even like, 4 cancellations. Xbox was not in a very good shape at all (perception was poor).

Of course, Phill took some big and very aggressive decisions: Bacwards compatibility and Game Pass. But still, First Party studios were not delivering New IPs AAA GOTY contenders...

...a new meme was born: "Wait until next E3".

Then, Phill started to make big acquisitions and we are here.....still waiting.

So, why is this relevant? because despite the Xbox's future looking better than ever. The core criticism has not been addressed in so many years.

You can jump and say: " But look at how many new IPs Xbox has now (with the acquisitions)".

Technically you will be right..Practically you and I know Xbox/MS had nothing to do with the creation of those IPs.

At the end of the day, the proof is going to be in the pudding. Xbox just needs consistency in creating High Profile New AAA IPs from their studios. Acquisitions (Bethesda/Acti-Blizz) are going to help tremendously, there is no doubt about it.
 

Ozriel

Member
...a new meme was born: "Wait until next E3".

Then, Phill started to make big acquisitions and we are here.....still waiting.

Not sure how you claim you're 'waiting'. E3 2021 showed a lot of first party games in the works. Pretty much what everyone wanted. You think games get released at E3? :messenger_grinning:


You can jump and say: " But look at how many new IPs Xbox has now (with the acquisitions)".

Technically you will be right..Practically you and I know Xbox/MS had nothing to do with the creation of those IPs.

What does this have to do with anything? You think anyone cares who created the IP?

At the end of the day, the proof is going to be in the pudding. Xbox just needs consistency in creating High Profile New AAA IPs from their studios. Acquisitions (Bethesda/Acti-Blizz) are going to help tremendously, there is no doubt about it.

I have no clue why you're going on about 'New AAA IP'. I've never seen you or anyone complain that GT7, Horizon FW and Ragnarok are sequels. And that's because Nobody cares. People just want solid games, whether it's a new IP or a sequel.

You're wasting your time listening to console war rhetoric. You mention the PS4 generation, but you conveniently fail to mention that the first few years of the PS4 generation didn't have that many first party releases...but people still bought the console for the promise of games coming down the line in the generation. And that's how it should be...you invest in a console for games that will come through the generation.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
Then, Phill started to make big acquisitions and we are here.....still waiting.

Bethesda was still producing two previously contracted PS5 games when bought, so they couldn't have anything ready then but there's two new Bethesda IPs coming exclusively to Xbox and PC this year (delays not withstanding). Plus the expected 'definitive' re-release for Deathloop later this year and Ghostwhire early next. So, we'll get the games from this one acquisition sooner rather than later.

And the other big acquisition doesn't even close till next year.
 
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ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
You just ignored/missed the Full Context and the point I am making.

This is about MS Game Studios (not big publisher acquisition) that basically is acting like a subsidiary , with their own management.

This is about how over the years Xbox has been struggling to create New AAA IP GOTY contenders.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
You just ignored/missed the Full Context and the point I am making.

This is about MS Game Studios (not big publisher acquisition) that basically is acting like a subsidiary , with their own management.

This is about how over the years Xbox has been struggling to create New AAA IP GOTY contenders.

Hence the acquisitions. They have the capital to do that and they're utilizing it.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Not sure how you claim you're 'waiting'. E3 2021 showed a lot of first party games in the works. Pretty much what everyone wanted. You think games get released at E3? :messenger_grinning:




What does this have to do with anything? You think anyone cares who created the IP?



I have no clue why you're going on about 'New AAA IP'. I've never seen you or anyone complain that GT7, Horizon FW and Ragnarok are sequels. And that's because Nobody cares. People just want solid games, whether it's a new IP or a sequel.

You're wasting your time listening to console war rhetoric. You mention the PS4 generation, but you conveniently fail to mention that the first few years of the PS4 generation didn't have that many first-party releases...but people still bought the console for the promise of games coming down the line in the generation. And that's how it should be...you invest in a console for games that will come through the generation.
You are missing/ignoring the Full Context and the point I am making.

Xbox has been struggling/lacking regarding the creation of New First-Party AAA IPs GOTY contenders*. (We need to be this categoric because people usually generalize and use hyperbolic statements which are not helpful in a conversation).

2. If you just plays games...You don't need to care about who created the IPs. BUT 'we' (this forum) is an enthusiast gaming forum, we talk about what engine is used, we talk about NPDs, performance numbers, lawsuits, tech etcetera.

3. Again. Missing the point and the full context.
Sony has been quite consistent when it comes to creating New First-Party AAA IPs GOTY contenders. Even thou they had their share of failures and cancellations.

4. I didn't fail to mention the "PS4 Has No Gamez" meme at the beginning of the generation. Because is not relevant. Sony delivered games and New First-Party AAA IP GOTY contenders.

Both, PlayStation and Xbox promise games that either become 'vaporware'/get canceled/ fail to meet gamers/marketing expectations/promises.

When you stop for a second and look back at the output (of lack thereof) of Xbox Game Studios (specially compared to SIE). You can see this perception of 'mismanagement/what the hell is going on at Xbox game studios' exists for a reason beyond just console warz and fanboys rhetoric.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Hence the acquisitions. They have the capital to do that and they're utilizing it.
Well yeah. Cuz having all the money in the world can not buy you time. And making new AAA studios from the ground up takes a long ass time...time that they lost in second half of the 360 and the entire ONE generation. But again.....That is not the point.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
Well yeah. Cuz having all the money in the world can not buy you time. And making new AAA studios from the ground up takes a long ass time...time that they lost in second half of the 360 and the entire ONE generation. But again.....That is not the point.

Considering the state Xbox was in most of the One generation with it being on the brink of being sold or closed, it's remarkable it's bounced back this well as it has in a couple of years.

It took Sony the good amount of the 360/PS3 generation to recover as well. It's a matter of when not if.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Considering the state Xbox was in most of the One generation with it being on the brink of being sold or closed, it's remarkable it's bounced back this well as it has in a couple of years.

It took Sony the good amount of the 360/PS3 generation to recover as well. It's a matter of when not if.
The issues with the One generation were rotted in the past (Last half of the 360 era) and until this very moment, Xbox hasn't been able to overcome those poor decisions. (Which is insane if you think about it)

What is impressive is the 180° of the Xbox PR/Marketing/brand perception The power of Game Pass has been the savior of Xbox itself.
 
As an xbox gamer I'm not that upset to see reports like this.
It used to be that people wrote about how Microsoft only had 4 studios and that was the issue. Now the problem is they have so many they can't keep a tight leash on them all.
It's a far better situation to be in if you game on xbox.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
The track record for the actual Microsoft Game Studios is not really that great. Bethesda is going to be fine. Acti-Blizz could be a nightmare tho.

Which studios are you talking about?

Turn 10? They've been excellent. To date their only mistake was Forza 7, and even then it was a fantastic release.

343? Every game they've released is a top selling, very well critically received game. They are slower than expected on their first Halo that's a service as a game and also happened to be the most ambitious Halo campaign ever designed with tons of new, never before seen additions, including an actual open world in the campaign?

DoubleFine? They just delivered a multiple GOTY awarded and winning game in Psychonauts 2 that everybody at the studio said was made better thanks to Microsoft's acquisition.

Undead Labs has given amazing support to State of Decay 2 over the years. Them having development challenges with their most ambitious game yet, a big move towards a AAA title, also isn't anything that spells trouble or doom for them either. Every team is known to have its issues.

Rare? You may not be a fan of what they've made, but Sea of Thieves is their most successful game ever, and is a huge hit for them on Xbox and PC in places like steam. So they possibly rebooted Everwild. Stuff happens, doesn't mean it can't still be a great game from them.

Playgrounds? They've been firing on all cylinders since they first worked with Microsoft and delivered their biggest hit yet with Forza Horizon 5. They're making Fable. They've never made an RPG before, so of course that would be a challenge. I don't see the issue here.

InXile? They delivered an incredible game in Wasteland 3, a highly well received game that the studio said they were able to make way better thanks to being acquired by Microsoft.

Coalition? Come on, they've been as excellent for Microsoft as a studio can be.

Obsidian? Grounded has been a great title for them, very popular, very loved, they've released top tier DLC for The Outer Worlds since being with Microsoft, they're making Avowed, they're making The Outer Worlds 2. They've been a very efficient dev for Microsoft.

So what's really left to criticize? The newest studio that has never made a game before and needed to build up a studio operation? Aka The Initiative? I don't see a problem. They had creative differences with some of the team on the direction they wanted to go, and now they have a AAA development partner in Crystal Dynamics to make the game with.

They got compulsion games, they're making something new, remains to be seen what.

Age of Empires was a critical and commercial success.

Flight Sim was received very well.

Gears Tactics was received well.

Ninja Theory - looks like they could be putting together something very special over there with Hellblade 2. Can't wait to see it. When you take a step back from the console wars, you realize that there is nothing remotely alarming coming from Xbox Game Studios other than all studios are busy on lots of projects and had to make adjustments to their creative process during a global pandemic. A work from home policy couldn't have been easy for many of them, so of course it impacted a number of things. Xbox Game Studios weren't the only ones who have been affected.

Everything from WB games has seen delays from Gotham Knights, to Hogwarts Legacy to Suicide Squad. God of War was originally announced as a 2021 game and still has no release date for this year. I mean, we can do this all day. Games take time, there's nothing to worry about anywhere. 343i on the Halo side of things are working on their game and will deliver the content as they can deliver it. If people can't wait for them to do so, they can move on to other things. Xbox Game Studios is being held to an absurd standard considering they just came off a year where they were the best publisher of the year with the highest ever recorded average score.

There's quite literally nothing to worry about unless people think studios needing time to develop ambitious titles is a problem.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Well I think supporting over 4000 games via BC ain't to shabby.

How many BC can we play on XSX again?
Can you play those 4000 games without having to pay for them again? I can pop in a game I bought over 10 years ago and play it on XSX without any additional fees. Who else is doing that?
There's quite literally nothing to worry about unless people think studios needing time to develop ambitious titles is a problem.
It's always amazing to see the state of Xbox studios when a person is honest. There are issues with just about every game studio. The real test is what is released. Last time I checked XGS had publisher of the year in 2021. If them in 'disarray' gets them publisher of the year what will happen when they finally get their act together?
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Which studios are you talking about?
The old ones. Not recent studios/publisher acquisitions.
Turn 10? They've been excellent. To date their only mistake was Forza 7, and even then it was a fantastic release.

343? Every game they've released is a top selling, very well critically received game. They are slower than expected on their first Halo that's a service as a game and also happened to be the most ambitious Halo campaign ever designed with tons of new, never before seen additions, including an actual open world in the campaign?
'No that great' dosen't mean that their games are not good/great or successful. Means that Microsoft Game Studios output hasn't been 'that great'. great as in amount/quantity of New First Party AAA IPs GOTY contenders.
DoubleFine? They just delivered a multiple GOTY awarded and winning game in Psychonauts 2 that everybody at the studio said was made better thanks to Microsoft's acquisition.
Let's not kid ourselves. That game was basically done before MS acquisition. And Xbox was not involve in the creation of that IP whatsoever.
Undead Labs has given amazing support to State of Decay 2 over the years. Them having development challenges with their most ambitious game yet, a big move towards a AAA title, also isn't anything that spells trouble or doom for them either. Every team is known to have its issues.
The first two games can not been considered as AAA games and they are not are an example of polished games either.

Rare? You may not be a fan of what they've made, but Sea of Thieves is their most successful game ever, and is a huge hit for them on Xbox and PC in places like steam. So they possibly rebooted Everwild. Stuff happens, doesn't mean it can't still be a great game from them.
Sea of thieves didn't lunch in a good state (content wise) felt barebones. Again, we are talking about a very categorical problem Xbox has deal over the years. Sea of thieves is just an example of this very issue.

Playgrounds? They've been firing on all cylinders since they first worked with Microsoft and delivered their biggest hit yet with Forza Horizon 5. They're making Fable. They've never made an RPG before, so of course that would be a challenge. I don't see the issue here.
Playground is probably the best studio Xbox has right now. This is what people should expect from Microsof Game Studios. But again. No new IP.

InXile? They delivered an incredible game in Wasteland 3, a highly well received game that the studio said they were able to make way better thanks to being acquired by Microsoft.
Old IP (MS was not involve in the creation of the IP). Nothing new or truly AAA since the acquisition.

Coalition? Come on, they've been as excellent for Microsoft as a studio can be.
Another consistent game developer...Issue? Old IP. Nothing new.
Obsidian? Grounded has been a great title for them, very popular, very loved, they've released top tier DLC for The Outer Worlds since being with Microsoft, they're making Avowed, they're making The Outer Worlds 2. They've been a very efficient dev for Microsoft.
Grounded was in development before the acquisition. Cannot been considered as an actual game. More like a prototype / vertical slice/ early access Demo.

So what's really left to criticize? The newest studio that has never made a game before and needed to build up a studio operation? Aka The Initiative? I don't see a problem. They had creative differences with some of the team on the direction they wanted to go, and now they have a AAA development partner in Crystal Dynamics to make the game with.
Again and the main criticism has been (for a long time now) the struggling for MS/Xbox at creating New First-Party AAA IPs GOTY contenders.

They got compulsion games, they're making something new, remains to be seen what.
Again and as I said in another post. A meme was born: "Wait until next E3'.
Age of Empires was a critical and commercial success.
Old ass IP.
Flight Sim was received very well.
Old ass IP.

Gears Tactics was received well.
Spin off of the Trinity of meme Xbox output. (Gears, Forza, Halo)

Ninja Theory - looks like they could be putting together something very special over there with Hellblade 2. Can't wait to see it. When you take a step back from the console wars, you realize that there is nothing remotely alarming coming from Xbox Game Studios other than all studios are busy on lots of projects and had to make adjustments to their creative process during a global pandemic. A work from home policy couldn't have been easy for many of them, so of course it impacted a number of things. Xbox Game Studios weren't the only ones who have been affected.
Again. MS was not involved whatsoever in the creation of that IP.

Everything from WB games has seen delays from Gotham Knights, to Hogwarts Legacy to Suicide Squad. God of War was originally announced as a 2021 game and still has no release date for this year. I mean, we can do this all day. Games take time, there's nothing to worry about anywhere.
Games are hard to make.
AAA games are even harder.
New IPs AAA GOTY contenders are a fricking miracle.

Xbox has been struggling with the later...For years.

Is not about worry, is just about pointing out something that's has been happening for years and still Xbox is failing/struggling to overcome. Which is insane and just exemplifies how fucked up those decision back in the second half of the 360 era and the One generation messed up MS game development output.


343i on the Halo side of things are working on their game and will deliver the content as they can deliver it. If people can't wait for them to do so, they can move on to other things.
Halo is a very important IP. Is basically Xbox Identity. Is the Mario of Xbox. And now is struggling to compete in a very crowed and competitive Mutiplayer scene.

343i for some reason is always in this weird 'fight' with the Halo community, for some 343i has been the worst thing that has happened to the Halo franchise. Every game developed by them has always been controversial, if is not the Story/Lore is some elements of gameplay/design. And now with Infinite is about content. That studio is in a tough position.

Xbox Game Studios is being held to an absurd standard...
Just like Forza Horizon. Or Flight Simulator or even Gears. MS should be the one archiving and surpassing that level of standards.

considering they just came off a year where they were the best publisher of the year with the highest ever recorded average score.
Thats a technicality. Is factually correct but in practice, you and I know that a lot of those games were made way before the acquisition (No MS involvement in the creation of those IPs)
There's quite literally nothing to worry about unless people think studios needing time to develop ambitious titles is a problem.
Lastly and reiterating. All the bad decisions made by Xbox since the second half of the 360 era and the entire One generation have had repercussions that still to this very day have materialize as a negative effect in the output of Xbox game development output, affecting especially the ability to create New FirstParty AAA IPs GOTY contenders.

The future of Xbox overall looks better than ever. They just need to shake up those demons they have carried for a long time now.
 

DarkMage619

Member
You can right now play 4000 games for free if you own them.
Who is offering 4000 games you can play if you own them for no additional fee?


Here is the full backwards compatibility list on Xbox. As adamsapple adamsapple already said it's the entire X1 library, hundreds of 360, and even several original Xbox titles as well. None of these games are behind a paywall or require a service to access.
 
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adamsapple

Gold Member
Who is offering 4000 games you can play if you own them for no additional fee?


Here is the full backwards compatibility list on Xbox. As adamsapple adamsapple already said it's the entire X1 library, hundreds of 360, and even several original Xbox titles as well. None of these games are behind a paywall or require a service to access.

And with native hardware emulation for them all, many with FPS and/or resolution boosts over their original releases.

MS's BC team deserves mad props and I hope they come back for more soon.
 

Ozriel

Member
You just ignored/missed the Full Context and the point I am making.

This is about MS Game Studios (not big publisher acquisition) that basically is acting like a subsidiary , with their own management.

This is about how over the years Xbox has been struggling to create New AAA IP GOTY contenders.

To an xbox owner, it is fucking irrelevant if Starfield - a new AAA IP GOTY contender - is made by Xbox Game Studios or by Bethesda. Both are under Microsoft Gaming and both hit Gamepass day one.

Phil saw holes and shortcomings in the xbox first party lineup and has worked to address that via acquisitions and publishing deals. But you somehow want to invalidate this strategy while at the same time criticize Phil for inaction.

How does that make any sense?

“This is about all the years xbox has struggled in the past”

Why? Is anyone going back to the past?
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
To an xbox owner, it is fucking irrelevant if Starfield - a new AAA IP GOTY contender - is made by Xbox Game Studios or by Bethesda. Both are under Microsoft Gaming and both hit Gamepass day one.
We are not talking from an "Xbox owner" POV. If you are just someone who just play games, Everything is irrelevant, you just want to play games. But 'we' are and videogame enthusiast forum, in which we talk about not just video games, we discuss game development, NPD's, Tech performance, how good or bad textures are. Lawsuits, controversies, scores, business models etc...

Phil saw holes and shortcomings in the xbox first party lineup and has worked to address that via acquisitions and publishing deals
Again and for the N time. Xbox current issues have the roots with the bad decisions made in second half of the 360 era, and the entire One generation.


. But you somehow want to invalidate this strategy while at the same time criticize Phil for inaction.

And as I said before, Phill has made big and aggressive decisions to remain competitive. BC/Game Pass. Publishing deal aka second party games and money hats have been an ongoing and valid strategy since forever. The recent acquisitions are a necessity when you lost time not investing in first party, and top talent in this industry is hard to come by.

So no, I am not criticizing Phill Spencer. I m just pointing out something that has been happening since the second half if the 360 era AND MS/Xbox is still struggling /faling to overcome.

How does that make any sense?

“This is about all the yearXboxox has struggled in the past”

Why? Is anyone going back to the past?
Not just in the past, this issue is still a thing (which is insane if you think about it).

As we cannot travel to the future, the past becomes a referent of past mistakes/success and can give us and insight for the future.
 
Which studios are you talking about?

-SNIP-

There's quite literally nothing to worry about unless people think studios needing time to develop ambitious titles is a problem.

A nice summary but you're forgetting the golden rule of gamers and game releases of any platform -

 

peter42O

Member
Personally, I have been more than happy with what Microsoft has given me this generation simply because while several games aren't for me, the quality has been consistently high with only Ghostwire Tokyo being under an 80 on OC. Gears Tactics, Flight Simulator, Psychonauts 2, Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite in the first 14 months is already leagues better than the first 14 months of Xbox One. Add in Age of Empires IV on PC which is in the low 80's and Deathloop which is in the high 80's and both of which will release on Xbox Series this Fall along with Starfield and the return of Forza Motorsport as a platform for the generation, the quality is better than it's ever been for Xbox and the vast majority of studios haven't even released a game yet for this generation.

Ninja Theory has Hellblade 2 which will be an improvement over the first game in every aspect. Playground's second studio working on the Fable reboot could easily be their massive breakout outside of racing even though it's a separate studio and team that has nothing to do with Forza Horizon outside of the Forza Tech that is being used for the game. The Coalition is one of the best studios in gaming when it comes visual fidelity and arguably the best studio when it comes to getting the most out of the Unreal Engine. Gears 6 is a guarantee and they have a smaller new IP that they're working on.

Obsidian has Avowed and The Outer Worlds 2 plus Josh Sawyer's AA title that is said to be similar to Disco Elysium. Obsidian releases quality games and rarely misses. InXile is working on a first person steampunk RPG and coming off the success of Wasteland 3, both of these two studios will end up being steals for Microsoft as this generation progresses. Compulsion Games has been mediocre up to this point but they're rumored to be working on an AAA third person action adventure game so they can only improve. Undead Labs has had great support for SOD 2 and SOD 3 getting a massive budget and running on UE 5, game could finally be what it should have been with SOD 2.

Rare has a very successful Sea of Thieves and Everwild seems to have been rebooted but not every studio is going to be perfect. Double Fine just released a highly rated and critically acclaimed Psychonuats 2 and while their games aren't for me, Tim Schaffer rarely misses. The Initiative had problems but thankfully, they all left and Crystal Dynamics came in to take over development with Gallagher overseeing Perfect Dark and im super hyped to see what they do as im way more confident in Crystal Dynamics and Gallagher than I was with the "so called amazing talent" from The Initiative which if anything was simply "too many chefs in the kitchen" and thankfully, they're all gone except for Gallagher who I have far more confidence in than all of those people who left combined.

Arkane is working on Redfall and they simply don't miss. Every game release has been at least an 80+. Id Software released Doom Eternal two years ago and is said to be working on a Quake reboot. While not for me, they resurrected Doom and will probably do the same for Quake. Machine Games has Indiana Jones which im super hyped for and an unannounced game which I believe will be Wolfenstein III which will conclude the series. Tango Gameworks is basically the underrated studio and while I wish they would give me The Evil Within 3, I am interested in seeing what Mikami's dream game ends up being and John Johanas has his own game in development.

And of course, you have Bethesda Game Studios with Starfield. If Starfield ends up being "Skyrim in Space", then they will get back their RPG crown that they lost to CDPR in 2015. None of this includes future content for Halo Infinite from 343 Industries, Roundhouse Studios, Zenimax Online Studios, the several third party AAA exclusive games that they have contracts for or the pending acquisition of Activision.

This generation is going to be the best ever for Xbox and more than likely surpass all three previous generations combined with more studios, games than ever before and the overall highest quality level that they've ever had before. Best of all, we're only 18 months into the generation with a very long ways to go. Hyped!!!!!
 

Utherellus

Member
Well, there you go. Context is important to have a more nuanced and wide perspective in any topic.

Just a refresher. Back in the second half of the 360 era, Xbox didn't invest in First Party Studios, instead, rely too much on third-party collaboration especially Call Of Duty. A meme was born as well: Halo, Forza,Gears. Do you remember?. You also had bad decisions made with the Fable IP and Halo fans were not that happy with 343i output.

But everything was fine and dandy...Until de PS4 generation. The main Xbox criticism starting to gain strength:

Lack of Fisrt Party AAA New IP GOTY contenders.

In the One era, Xbox had a rather pathetic output of First/second party games and even like, 4 cancellations. Xbox was not in a very good shape at all (perception was poor).

Of course, Phill took some big and very aggressive decisions: Bacwards compatibility and Game Pass. But still, First Party studios were not delivering New IPs AAA GOTY contenders...

...a new meme was born: "Wait until next E3".

Then, Phill started to make big acquisitions and we are here.....still waiting.

So, why is this relevant? because despite the Xbox's future looking better than ever. The core criticism has not been addressed in so many years.

You can jump and say: " But look at how many new IPs Xbox has now (with the acquisitions)".

Technically you will be right..Practically you and I know Xbox/MS had nothing to do with the creation of those IPs.

At the end of the day, the proof is going to be in the pudding. Xbox just needs consistency in creating High Profile New AAA IPs from their studios. Acquisitions (Bethesda/Acti-Blizz) are going to help tremendously, there is no doubt about it.

What's this obsession with "AAA GOTY" lmao.

Why yall expecting "Sony-like cinematic over-shoulder blockbuster" experiences from Xbox?

They are having their own thing.
But most importantly: Who asked?

We love Xbox for Gears Tactics - TPS title
We love Xbox for Age of Empires and Halo Wars - RTS titles
We love Xbox for Flight Sim 2020 - Simulator title
We love Xbox for Sea of Thieves - MMO title
We love Xbox for Forza Horizon - Arcade open world racing title
We love Xbox for Ori - Metroidvania title

Xbox offers unique genres as flagships for their lineups. They continue investing in so many niche genres, others wouldn't even bother.

Every each one of this games I mentioned are amazing in what they do for their genres. But Boutique journal outlets never make games like Forza or Flight Sim GOTY.
Yet this does not downplay how phenomenal those games are for their genre.

That's why I keep buying their games - variety. They got balls to experiment and release flagship games that are not targeted to sell 15 million copies.
 
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It's not like there's a global pandemic going on that's impacted the entire world or anything.

Anyway, last gen Sony used to get the same criticisms for revealing games too early with CG announcement trailers. Ultimately what matters is if the games are good when they come out.
Not true at all. Sony was the one that broke the mold and started showing actual gameplay demos at E3 instead of just CGI trailers. All of their heavy hitters were announced and had actual gameplay demos the next year at E3, then after that they released. That's why they stopped going. They had the best shows and was only bringing more attention and promotion to Nintendo and Xbox.

E3 gameplay Demos for Uncharted, Horizon, God of war, Days Gone, Ghost of Tsushima, TLOU2 and they released within 2 years after being announced. Ps4 owners didnt have to wait more than 2 years for a game to be released after being announced from Sonys first party studios. 3rd party might be another story.
 
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Loope

Member
Or, in my case you have an Xbox series X but you can’t make a simple joke because everyone here is a snowflake and get their feelings hurt!

- you’re not part of the group if you are critical or make jokes about the brand!
Was i talking about you? I'm referring to a specific subset. I actually find odd in all threads. Like entering a TLOU:II thread and go: I don't like this cinematic shit. Why do that in the first place.

Seems to me you're being more of a snowflake than the people you're accusing since you made my post about you for some strange reason, when i specifically said :" people that won't buy one", so you don't really fit that description.
 

Zeroing

Gold Member
Was i talking about you? I'm referring to a specific subset. I actually find odd in all threads. Like entering a TLOU:II thread and go: I don't like this cinematic shit. Why do that in the first place.

Seems to me you're being more of a snowflake than the people you're accusing since you made my post about you for some strange reason, when i specifically said :" people that won't buy one", so you don't really fit that description.
Calm down. Not accusing anyone, did not said whom or how many. Just expressing my experience here, just like you were…


What you think of me is none of my business! Didn’t asked your opinion of me ! :)
 

Ozriel

Member
We are not talking from an "Xbox owner" POV. If you are just someone who just play games, Everything is irrelevant, you just want to play games. But 'we' are and videogame enthusiast forum, in which we talk about not just video games, we discuss game development, NPD's, Tech performance, how good or bad textures are. Lawsuits, controversies, scores, business models etc...


Again and for the N time. Xbox current issues have the roots with the bad decisions made in second half of the 360 era, and the entire One generation.


In a thread about the future of Microsoft’s first party studios, Why are you piping up to tell us what we already know, that Xbox had a mediocre first party lineup in the past generation?

Will you also extensively discuss the color of the skies too? Perhaps also talk about how fish swim in water?


So no, I am not criticizing Phill Spencer. I m just pointing out something that has been happening since the second half if the 360 era AND MS/Xbox is still struggling /faling to overcome.


Not just in the past, this issue is still a thing (which is insane if you think about it).

As we cannot travel to the future, the past becomes a referent of past mistakes/success and can give us and insight for the future.


No, the issues of the past aren’t really a thing anymore. The past you seem eager to cite as an analogue is a period where Xbox had about 7 studios in total for first party (Rare, Mojang, 343, Undead Labs, Turn 10, Playground and the Coalition) and had limited funding and power within Microsoft. Trying to use that as an analogue for a period where they’ve got 30 studios (soon to increase post Activision), where Microsoft Gaming is now a fundamental pillar of Microsoft and has access to orders of magnitude more funding makes zero sense.
 

Snake29

Member
All these metacritic arguments, yeah they delivered polished good games, is any of those games generation defining or even memorable though? Surely there is the argument that I, personally dgaf about those games, still I stand by my point.

Even their "flagship" halo was mediocre, they are a lot better than their XONE era but they definitely don't push the medium, like the other 2 players, Sony and Nintendo which deliver memorable unique experiences.

They'll get there I am sure, but please stop pretending like the metacritic scores made them the king of gaming.

The metacritic score is the only thing they can hold on to now, after all. But apart from that, 2 games were developed for PC and PS5 and had nothing to do with Xbox Game Studios. Then we have Halo which in my opinion got way too high scores for what generic shooter you got in return. Only Forza Horizon 5 could be seen as a great game, but it too is nothing more than Horizon 4 with a different map and a graphical update to many.

It's just a fucking joke. And then there are serious people who dare to make concern threads about PS Studios. They are the only ones who are consistent and don't shout too high from the rooftops like Xbox mostly did before and during the xbox launch. After that they were pretty quiet when they saw that the practice proved to be different.
 
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