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God of War Ragnarök music production intern Jessica Mao says she wasn't credited for contribution to the game
BootsLoader
Banned
It’s a bad feeling working for something but not be credited and all, but…..
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Yeah it's messed up thinking by some. I think SSM even states that interns get credit on games as a positive when advertising positions. She was right to say it, probably should have gone to the source privately first and only publicly if they told her to fuck off.
So you guys attacking her for wanting to be credited? That's her right.
This is one of the dumbest shit I've read on here. The fuck.
yurinka
Member
The 'minimum criteria' means that the teams don't want to give the same credit to someone who worked a few days than someone who worked during years. When this is the case, that person often doesn't appears in the credit, or appears in the 'thanks' portion, or in the 'additional [instert here the department]'.
Sometimes also applies when their work was so bad that didn't made the cut to enter the game or that alsmost nothing made by this person is in the game.
There aren't standard rules for these things, so every team or person who fills these lists have their own criteria. Now I remember that there was a studio who only credited people who continued there when their games achieves the Gold milestone, as a measure to encourage their workers to don't leave in the middle or development and perform decently enough to don't get fired.
In any case, to appear in the game credits it's only an ego thing to show other people like friends and so on. For the careers of the devs doesn't matter because companies or HR doesn't go to check if people appear in the game credits or not: if they want to double check if someone worked in a game they ask the company who did it or specifically the person in charge of that specific area of the game.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
Yeah, fuck people for wanting to show off an accomplishment that they're super proud of.
Topher
Gold Member
As was the "minimum criteria" line. As I posted in the thread, SMS advertises intern positions with the promise of being credited.
It sounded like that's what she did though. She got push back saying she didn't meet "minimum criteria" which was bullshit.
The Alien
Banned
Well, there are minimum criteria set for credits etc. in the industry. Same goes for screenwriting, etc. Not saying it's fair and it wouldnt be the first dispute. Maybe an intern was taken advantage of...maybe not.
Early in career seemed to be on the up: "I was the music intern for a little video game....God of War". If I valued my career, I probably wouldn't have bitched about it on Twitter tho.
Whether u think she's right or wrong, there's now an internet history of her publicly bitching about her employeer/manager, etc. As a hiring manager (not in games), I can tell u that's like red flag #1.
Early in career seemed to be on the up: "I was the music intern for a little video game....God of War". If I valued my career, I probably wouldn't have bitched about it on Twitter tho.
Whether u think she's right or wrong, there's now an internet history of her publicly bitching about her employeer/manager, etc. As a hiring manager (not in games), I can tell u that's like red flag #1.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Unless the credits sequence is a video, in which case you also have to re-render the video. And even if it isn't a video and it's done in-engine you still have to soak time into regression testing the build to make sure nothing else was broken. If it is something they are actually interested in doing they should probably do it as part of a patch that fixes other issues but it probably isn't worth the cost or effort to do on its own. If they haven't done it by now they likely won't.
yurinka
Member
Mininum criteria doesn't mean 'we don't credit interns', means you need to work in the project a minimum amount of time to be credited, because it isn't fair to give the same credit someone who worked a couple of weeks than someone who worked on it 4 years.
To change it is very easy, always can be changed with a patch.
But game updates have some cost (testing, certification, etc) and require more associated work. So maybe with 'can't be changed in a patch' they mean that they don't plan to make more game updates or their team/people in charge of that part already moved to other project.
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Topher
Gold Member
The advertised internships are for four months and that is what she worked. She met the criteria advertised.
Not being credited on something you worked on is a petty issue? Them not giving her credit is saying what they think about her. She already tried to resolve the issue privately but she got push back. This isn't the first we are hearing about people not being credited on something they worked on. She'll find work and from serious companies at that.
A lot of concept artist don't work on a project for more than two weeks but a lot of them create some of the most iconic characters and environment in games. Does that mean they shouldn't get credit? Your logic is absurd.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
So if she's in the credits now, at some point all the PS gamers got a software update just adjust the credits? lol
Topher
Gold Member
I'd think it would be part of a larger update.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Just curious, why do media care so much about credits? I do finance and helped get an entire finance system running which took 3 years to finally roll out. None of us have ever given a shit about having our names engraved on the home page.
If media people are so concerned about not getting recognition, just put it on their resume and include some artwork to prove it's theirs. And if the hiring company is that distrustful, do what every other place does. You give them a reference number and they call the place to see if you worked there. Or give a reference number of a trustworthy coworker or former boss who will vouch for you.
I have never had someone interview me and say "Hmmm.... can you show me a detailed spreadsheet you made? I just want to make sure you know numbers. How can you prove to me you actually helped get that finance system working. Is your name on it"
Is it a trust issue? An ego issue? HR people in media are lazy and dont trust workers unless they see credits as they dont want to pick up the phone and call for proof? No other industry does this.
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Maybe you don't realise this but updates usually push a few things at once
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
I helped build my local PC world years back. Not once did anyone say thank you. My name wasnt even on the door as you walked in. Total bullshit.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Nothing like an update including a credits adjustment of one line. Probably the first time in history.
Topher
Gold Member
As far as you know it happens all the time.
I've seen updates fix typos before so not sure how it's a big deal. Anyway it would just be a footnote in the changelog of an update that includes other things.
AmuroChan
Member
It's an industry standard unfortunately. My company has hired people that worked in the entertainment industry previously and they are very much fixated on having their names be on every project and presentations. I did a presentation once and one of these folks wrote me a nasty email afterwards asking why they weren't listed in the project team slide. I wrote back and said because you weren't on the project team nor did you contribute anything to the project. Their response was that they once sat in a 30 meeting where they were covering for a colleague who was sick that day and they should be credited for that. I escalated to my director and he basically just told that person to get lost.
Kokoloko85
Member
Surely it can be patched in
Rick Dangerous
Member
tf is going on here ? She was an intern for 4 months so basically nothing. It's extremely arrogant from her.
Rick Dangerous
Member
But if she wanted a blacklist from top studios, she was spot on.
yurinka
Member
It isn't absurd and isn't 'my logic', I'm expaining to you how things work in the industry.
People in each job position obviously works a different amount of time in a game. Compared to let's say the average programmer, concept artists work during a way shorter period of time in a game (but not two weeks, they work way longer) unless -something typical specially in small teams- that artist also is an environment artist/character artist/any other type of artist etc., so after the concept art he/she does something else before moving to another project.
Taking that into consideration, obviosly the amount of time worked needed to be considered enough to be credited often is also different and somewhat proportional to that. But there's no standard, so there are all kind of examples: in fact most companies don't even have internal rules to decide that and simply ask somebody in charge of the team about the people who worked there. And that person decides who gets listed. In fact, sometimes some people aren't credited by mistake, simply because they left while ago and that person forgot them. And when someone reminds them about that person then the person gets added.
In my personal case, I worked in over 40 games in the same studio and over time how did we listed people in the credits evolved and changed many times over time. In fact in the first ones nobody appeared in the credits/we didn't have game credits.
Quite often the people who worked in the project a very little amount of time (versus what normal people works in that job position) doesn't get credited, appears listed as 'support programmer/artist/designer/whatever' or even in the 'special thanks'. Quite often is the case of interns/trainees who work a few weeks there but don't get hired or are moved somewhere else, or what they did doesn't have enough quality so what they did end totally or partially replaced/removed.
If this is really the case then the most likely scenario is that someone forgot to include her.
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I work in the industry.
GHG
Gold Member
Did you complain on Twitter though?
Pasta la Vista
Member
I did like not even a whole day of testing on a project that wasn't even mine and I still got credited back in the early 2000s. Seems weird.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
