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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

Lethal01

Member
Not for visuals but for world interaction it's definitely up there.
I'll take BoTW at 8k over TLOU2 anyday.
It's a game that succeeds at stylization vs one that fails at realism.

The fact that stuff like RDR2/TLOU2 even run on a base PS4 should make it clear that we're nowhere near what we can do with the PS5/XSX.

Hopefully Kojima will come at us with another MGS2 moment (absolutely gorgeous visuals for its time) but I'm not quite sure.

Yeah I'm expecting use to reach UE5 demo levels of quality, maybe a little above.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
Found this just now when looking for starfield gifs. Starfield trailer was fully realtime, was not using cinematic tools and was running on a 2080 Super. MS has said that Gears 5 performed roughly equivalent to a 2080, and we have seen the PS5 outperform the 2080 in several AMD specific games. So both consoles should be able to run the game at these visuals.





 
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Lethal01

Member
Found this just now when looking for starfield gifs. Starfield trailer was fully realtime, was not using cinematic tools and was running on a 2080 Super. MS has said that Gears 5 performed roughly equivalent to a 2080, and we have seen the PS5 outperform the 2080 in several AMD specific games. So both consoles should be able to run the game at these visuals.






Well yeah? Isn't that what we were always expecting. it looks to be up there with the Avatar trailer or Forza 5. Wouldn't say UE5 level though.

I suppose many people still refuse to trust any trailers, because they got burned.
 
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hlm666

Member
Yes it's RT, it just has a mode where it doesn't use hardware acceleration and doesn't trace against triangles, but with hardware acceleration it looks much better.
Any idea if there is much performance uplift in hardware mode or does it aim for the same performance and increase the quality?
 

Lethal01

Member
Any idea if there is much performance uplift in hardware mode or does it aim for the same performance and increase the quality?
Sorry no, I can't remember what the performance is like, I'm not using Unreal right now and don't even have it installed anymore.

If I had to guess I'm guess it performs worse, in exchange for better quality.
but not as much as a hit as using Unreals full on raytracing solution,
 

3liteDragon

Gold Member
Well yeah? Isn't that what we were always expecting. it looks to be up there with the Avatar trailer or Forza 5. Wouldn't say UE5 level though.

I suppose many people still refuse to trust any trailers, because they got burned.
I mean it’s real-time alpha footage (graphics aren’t even close to being in their final state yet) so I’m gonna wait until we see some gameplay next year.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
Luckily a few AAA devs are already willing to make the trade



The first few pages seem to have a lot of devs looking at your expectations and saying they are super unrealistic, and you just saying that "the jump from ps4 to ps5 should be enough power imo".

Here's what I'm expecting this Gen.


maybe if we are lucky we can get this with slightly better character rendering and good raytraced reflections.
Ubisoft aren’t well known for their graphics so this may become the baseline in future.
 

Pasedo

Member
With the huge and unstoppable success of the Switch, companies will realise ever more that you don't need cutting edge graphics to make good business. Therefore expect graphics to go backwards.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Good job op, this is one of the few topics i visit on reeee.

From the annoying mary sue avatar i guess you are the same guy from reeee right?
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
With the huge and unstoppable success of the Switch, companies will realise ever more than you don't need cutting edge graphics to make good business. Therefore expect graphics to go backwards.
Hopefully nobody is gonna copy nintendo and we still gonna have games with more than 1000 yen of budget.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
People dumping on developers for "choosing to be cross gen" are way up there with the forum-educated dufus who thinks they know more about medicine than a doctor.
Lmao, i don't buy a fucking ps5 to play upscaled ps4 games dude.

If you are happy good for you but don't shat on people with absolutely legitimate requests.
 
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Pasedo

Member
Hopefully nobody is gonna copy nintendo and we still gonna have games with more than 1000 yen of budget.
Personally I'd rather see them spend 700 of that yen on amazing world design, immersive story telling, personable character building, intuitive and intelligently scaleable game play mechanics and perhaps 300 of that yen to make things look nice. Right now it seems that prioritisation is flipped.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Personally I'd rather see them spend 700 of that yen on amazing world design, immersive story telling, personable character building, intuitive and intelligently scaleable game play mechanics and perhaps 300 of that yen to make things look nice. Right now it seems that prioritisation is flipped.
And you think nintendo has all of what you listed?!

Boy we have wildly different opinion about nintendo and his adversaries output dude...
 

Tschumi

Member
Lmao, i don't buy a fucking ps5 to play upscaled ps4 games dude.

If you are happy good for you but don't shat on people with absolutely legitimate requests.
I just bought a Series S to play upscaled OG Xbox games lol ...

The point I'm making is they'd all make PS5 exclusives if they could, but the economics of fucking nobody having a PS5 is forcing them to keep selling for, oh, what's that thing again, that thing that everyone and their pet dog has and keeps buying games for... Ah yes, PS4!

It's not like they're fucking saying "nyeh heh heh all these people want a next gen exclusive so we're gonna fuck em all over!" I mean seriously how fucking shallow do you have to be to think a decision like this is pure fan-bashing? It's ridiculous.

GT7 was gonna be an exclusive, from memory, then they realised that Covid and the supply chain crisis was going to mean only 50 people would be able to play the fucking thing. THAT'S why the decisions are made.

So anyone who thinks they understand these decisions, and thinks they're anti-fan, that they're made by the developers with no input from Sony, for example, are basically saying the equivalent of: "that's not a tumor, it's a liquid bump because the weather is changing!"
 
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Pasedo

Member
And you think nintendo has all of what you listed?!

Boy we have wildly different opinion about nintendo and his adversaries output dude...
No not at all and it's a hit or miss with them. But it does seem they prioritise those factors I look for which is also obvious in their business practices as they don't create hardware capable of high graphical output. Don't get me wrong. I love 3rd party games and aside from the Switch I have a high end gaming laptop and the XSX. The big budgets they have with their games opens up so many possibilities but I'm finding more and more these days that I can't get into these games, but yes they look pretty. My reflective explanation is that they spend too much time making it look good and not enough time making it fun and engaging to play.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
No not at all and it's a hit or miss with them. But it does seem they prioritise those factors I look for which is also obvious in their business practices as they don't create hardware capable of high graphical output. Don't get me wrong. I love 3rd party games and aside from the Switch I have a high end gaming laptop and the XSX. The big budgets they have with their games opens up so many possibilities but I'm finding more and more these days that I can't get into these games, but yes they look pretty. My reflective explanation is that they spend too much time making it look good and not enough time making it fun and engaging to play.
I'm sorry, i don't see it at all, especially when you talk about worlds, story and chara, i will never switch sony or even M worlds/chara and story for anything made by nintendo, not even close.

I guess we just have different taste.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
I just bought a Series S to play upscaled OG Xbox games lol ...

The point I'm making is they'd all make PS5 exclusives if they could, but the economics of fucking nobody having a PS5 is forcing them to keep selling for, oh, what's that thing again, that thing that everyone and their pet dog has and keeps buying games for... Ah yes, PS4!

It's not like they're fucking saying "nyeh heh heh all these people want a next gen exclusive so we're gonna fuck em all over!" I mean seriously how fucking shallow do you have to be to think a decision like this is pure fan-bashing? It's ridiculous.

GT7 was gonna be an exclusive, from memory, then they realised that Covid and the supply chain crisis was going to mean only 50 people would be able to play the fucking thing. THAT'S why the decisions are made.

So anyone who thinks they understand these decisions, and thinks they're anti-fan, that they're made by the developers with no input from Sony, for example, are basically saying the equivalent of: "that's not a tumor, it's a liquid bump because the weather is changing!"
The problem is that i'm not a sony shareholder but a final client, so i gives 2 fucks about their reasons.

The only thing i know is that they took my number 1 and number 2 gotg from past gen and they made the sequels crossgen and i'm gonna have to wait another 4-5 years (at best) for their nextgen iteration, and i didn't bought a ps5 for this, exactly like i didn't bought a ps4 or ps3 to play crossgen games.

They sold more ps5 than ps4 in the same time span so all the "there are no ps5 around" narrative is absolute bullshit, they are just fucking greedy.
Ps5 is in a better position than ps4 after 1 year life cycle.

4the players my ass.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
I'm sorry i thought you wanted to talk, you are clearly farting from your mouth and my ears don't need that hassle
Yeah, better trying with someone different if you are in search for sony apologists.

But i like how you ignored the fact that after one year there are more ps5 than ps4 , i guess that wasn't enough of a reason for you to discuss, right?! :messenger_kissing_smiling:
 
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Tschumi

Member
Yeah, better trying with someone different if you are in search for sony apologists.

But i like how you ignored the fact that after one year there are more ps5 than ps4 , i guess that wasn't enough of a reason for you to discuss, right?! :messenger_kissing_smiling:
Conflating my post for apologizing isn't doing much for my opinion of your intelligence big boy

There are over 110 million ps4 and ps4 pros in the wild.

There are 12.20 million ps5s, God knows how many hoarded by scalpers.

110 vs 12.20... 110 vs. 12.20...

Am i mistaken champ or are those numbers hugely different? 110 is bigger than 12.20, isn't it?
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Conflating my post for apologizing isn't doing much for my opinion of your intelligence big boy

There are over 110 million ps4 and ps4 pros in the wild.

There are 12.20 million ps5s, God knows how many hoarded by scalpers.

110 vs 12.20... 110 vs. 12.20...

Am i mistaken champ or are those numbers hugely different? 110 is bigger than 12.20, isn't it?
Are you being dense on purpose?

Of course i'm talking about ps4 release dude.

Since one of the major excuses for crossgen is poor sony not selling enough ps5 when the true is the opposite, and the situation is only gonna be better in the future.

Asking for nextgen only games on a damn nextgen console is absolutely legit.

If that post was a proof of your superior intelligence i think you missed the mark by a landslide dude.
 
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Tschumi

Member
Are you being dense on purpose?

Of course i'm talking about ps4 release dude.

Since one of the major excuses for crossgen is poor sony not selling enough ps5 when the true is the opposite, and the situation is only gonna be better in the future.

If that post was a proof of your superior intelligence i think you missed the mark by a landslide dude.
Well there appears to be this.

Sony has confirmed that it has sold a total of 13.4 million PlayStation 5 consoles, but that's still short of where the PS4 was in its first year. Of course, Sony has had an uphill battle since 2020 with the pandemic, games being delayed, and the ongoing console shortages, so the number is rather impressive, but it does reflect the company's struggles. The PlayStation 5 is still expected to have a strong 2021, but not without some hurdles to overcome.

A PS5 shortage is expected to continue until 2022. There's some speculation that it could even last as long as 2023, but that remains to be seen. As of now, the shortage may not hurt Sony too much. All of Sony's remaining 2021 first-party titles have been delayed to 2022 by now, so this will hopefully give the platform holder time to produce more consoles and hit the ground running in the new year. 2023 and beyond is also looking to be quite large, so there won't really be a bad time to get a PS5, regardless of how long it takes.

Going into the PS4 generation Sony had a strong finish to PS3 after losing to the 360 for almost the whole generation, and had nowhere near the exclusives they had going in to PS5.

You're implying the PS4 and PS5 had a sale-off in a vacuum. You know what a vacuum is, right? It's not for cleaning carpets it's you know, an environment with no external influences or whatever. It didn't happen like that. But you think raw numbers are going to convince me?

Despite your cocksure numbers, the above link shows that the PS4 - coming off the back of a less successful generation - sold more in its first year than the PS5 did coming off Sony's most dominant, rival-eclipsing generation. Why? Supply shortage, pandemic, and I'm assuming scalpers.

Speak to that numbnuts, admit that your arbitrary numbers about PS5 sales counts have to be taken in context. You're just too lazy to do it, and you would rather pick fights because you're butthurt about not having enough 4k 60 titles yet,.

And once you're done there, admit that it makes more business sense for Sony to continue selling exclusives made for both PS4 and PS5 throughout the pandemic and supply shortage, and fuckin' scalper plague.

Given the high demand for the PlayStation 5, which is outselling the Switch, it's not hard to imagine that the PS5 would probably have surpassed the PS4 if individual machines were easier to obtain. Even though there's only a handful of games that are only available on the PS5, the console's advanced technology and promising future library still make it a hot commodity. As more consoles slowly roll out and enter the hands of gamers, the fight to get a console will hopefully become much easier. Sony may not be on par with its success on the PS4, but the PS5's sales numbers still represent an impressive feat given the circumstances.

If you just go back to jerking ur meat and tell me "heh heh sony apologist" instead of actually accepting this reality, I mean, I can't help you.

Peace.

EDIT: Just to show I've not let you derail the actual point of the conversation, I'll paste this earlier sentence:

It's not like they're fucking saying "nyeh heh heh all these people want a next gen exclusive so we're gonna fuck em all over!" I mean seriously how fucking shallow do you have to be to think a decision like this is pure fan-bashing? It's ridiculous.
Then you said...

The problem is that i'm not a sony shareholder but a final client, so i gives 2 fucks about their reasons.

And then you went off on a new thread of thought to keep your angry epeen rolling.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Well there appears to be this.



Going into the PS4 generation Sony had a strong finish to PS3 after losing to the 360 for almost the whole generation, and had nowhere near the exclusives they had going in to PS5.

You're implying the PS4 and PS5 had a sale-off in a vacuum. You know what a vacuum is, right? It's not for cleaning carpets it's you know, an environment with no external influences or whatever. It didn't happen like that. But you think raw numbers are going to convince me?

Despite your cocksure numbers, the above link shows that the PS4 - coming off the back of a less successful generation - sold more in its first year than the PS5 did coming off Sony's most dominant, rival-eclipsing generation. Why? Supply shortage, pandemic, and I'm assuming scalpers.

Speak to that numbnuts, admit that your arbitrary numbers about PS5 sales counts have to be taken in context. You're just too lazy to do it, and you would rather pick fights because you're butthurt about not having enough 4k 60 titles yet,.

And once you're done there, admit that it makes more business sense for Sony to continue selling exclusives made for both PS4 and PS5 throughout the pandemic and supply shortage, and fuckin' scalper plague.



If you just go back to jerking ur meat and tell me "heh heh sony apologist" instead of actually accepting this reality, I mean, I can't help you.

Peace.

EDIT: Just to show I've not let you derail the actual point of the conversation, I'll paste this earlier sentence:


Then you said...



And then you went off on a new thread of thought to keep your angry epeen rolling.
I admit that i didn't checked the numbers lately, last time i checked ps5 was up.

And ps3 was maybe a disaster in their first years, but it was in great shape at the end, they had many acclaimed games and it was the very first gen where sony affirmed his own story heavy games, if it was in bad shape they wouldn't win against x360 after the initial advantage they had.

The point is that they leave behind almost 90 mil of ps3 users without giving a single fuck.

Now we can discuss covid or other reasons why they followed the crossgen path but once again, i'm not a sony shareholder, i gives 2 fucks if they make less money, i only care for the final result.

You can be okay with all of this, but as a final customer i have any right of talking shit about their politics in a vg forum.

I don't even care about 4k or 60 frames, i play mostly on pc so i already have that with 99% of what i play, i was more interested in having a decent fucking cpu and curios to see what they can come out with a fast ssd, sorry if i want games that are not made for a shitty 2013 hardware on my shiny new console.

I really think it's absurd to even ask sorry for such a request but here we are...
 
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Tschumi

Member
I admit that i didn't checked the numbers lately, last time i checked ps5 was up.

And ps3 was maybe a disaster in their first years, but it was in great shape at the end, they had many acclaimed games and it was the very first gen where sony affirmed his own story heavy games, if it was in bad shape they wouldn't win against x360 after the initial advantage they had.

The point is that they leave behind almost 90 mil of ps3 users without giving a single fuck.

Now we can discuss covid or other reasons why they followed the crossgen path but once again, i'm not a sony shareholder, i gives 2 fucks if they make less money, i only care for the final result.

You can be okay with all of this, but as a final customer i have any right of talking shit about their politics in a vg forum.

I don't even care about 4k or 60 frames, i play mostly on pc so i already have that with 99% of what i play, i was more interested in having a decent fucking cpu and curios to see what they can come out with a fast ssd, sorry if i want games that are not made for a shitty 2013 hardware on my shiny new console.

I really think it's absurd to even ask sorry for such a request but here we are...
i dig ur thoughtful post, i haven't got problems with anything you said, i personally just think there's no point getting angry at the wind.

I've got a Series S coming tomorrow and I don't know what to expect from it, lol, in my mind PS4 Pro is still my main console and probably will be until I replace it with a PS5 in a few years, I can wait...
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
i dig ur thoughtful post, i haven't got problems with anything you said, i personally just think there's no point getting angry at the wind.

I've got a Series S coming tomorrow and I don't know what to expect from it, lol, in my mind PS4 Pro is still my main console and probably will be until I replace it with a PS5 in a few years, I can wait...
I mean, we are in a videogame forum, i think this is the only place where to show my disappointment.

It's useless i know, but it's always fun to troll the good ol jim in here:lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 

Tschumi

Member


How far, have we not come.
I play this game often and love it, but really it is more a towering achievement of smoke and mirrors than some kind of incredible graphical achievement.

It's the same engine as Horizon Zero Dawn, interestingly, apparently it's basically run Inside HZD.
 
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spyshagg

Should not be allowed to breed
I play this game and love it, but really it is more a towering achievement of smoke and mirrors than some kind of incredible graphical achievement.

It's the same engine as Horizon Zero Dawn, interestingly, apparently it's basically run Inside HZD.

Yes.

The post serves to demonstrate, its art over technical quality that we should aspire for.
 

Lysandros

Member
I hope that maybe the Series X can have some breakthroughs at least with RT due to their having machine learning on Series X. I own a ps5 btw so I'm not biased against it. It's a fine console for the price. I'm just disappointed at seeing all the compromises We're already having to make.
I didn't know that ML was exclusive to XSX. Especially when there are games already using it on PS5.
 

Md Ray

Gold Member
Prettier graphics are fine. But my expectations for true next-gen is more detailed, realistic animations with less jank, more physics interactions within the game world, less barren-looking worlds, and more densely populated worlds with realistic destruction and more intelligent AI behaviors in NPCs, something we've never seen before in a real-time video game.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
I'm tired of all the basic ass lighting in games. That goes for TLOU2 as well. At minimum every game should be using SSGI, Voxel GI, or full blown RTGI.



 
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Aggelos

Member
Graphic Fidelity expectations of the current-gen -> CGI TV CM of 'Last of Us Part II'
(Sony removed it from their youtube account, though)











 
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3liteDragon

Gold Member
I'm tired of all the basic ass lighting in games. That goes for TLOU2 as well. At minimum every game should be using SSGI, Voxel GI, or full blown RTGI.



Well developers are building their own dynamic GI systems rn anyway, even if they’re software-based, I don’t know if last-gen consoles would’ve had the horsepower to pull it off on a large scale in real-time.

This gen, we’re definitely gonna see fully dynamic lighting running on these consoles as UE5’s already paving the way for that.
 
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Mister Wolf

Member
Well developers are building their own dynamic GI systems rn anyway, even if they’re software-based, I don’t know if last-gen consoles would’ve had the horsepower to pull it off on a large scale in real-time.

This gen, we’re definitely gonna see fully dynamic lighting running on these consoles as UE5’s already paving the way for that.

Lumen is heavy. They are all heavy on performance. They are worth it though. Dont be surprised if we see the same basic ass realtime light probe GI or baked lighting paired with SSAO we've see these past two generations
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit

That is my thread on ResetEra created april of 2020 before next gen consoles released. It has input from actual devs etc in the industry. Insomniac, Microsoft, Digital Foundry, DICE, Moon Studios etc.



I still consider TLOU II to be the one of the best looking games EVER made overall, counting animation, sound, graphics etc. This thread is to discuss future graphics and to show the best from the industry.
First off, repost what you posted without the link to cancerous, shitty, racist website full of cunts and mentally ill midgets.

Secondly, I can’t agree with you on TLOU II. It was one of the most bland, forgettable adventures with some neat animations that often glitched out and didn’t gel into a cohesive vision. It’s Gore, one of the only selling points, was not even the best or all that unique. Hell, Manhunt and Punisher back on the PS2 had as, if not more visceral and gut wrenching gore than TLOU II.

Stylished games hold up so much better than these attempts at super realism. They always end up looking dated within a couple years after their release when the *next* big photo-realistic title releases. I would argue that we should just stop trying to pursue the needless graphical fidelity in general and focus on putting more resources into things that will have a tangible benefit. The game systems. The AI. The moment to moment gameplay. These are the only things that really matter since the PS4/Xbox One when “Uber graphics” got boring.
 

3liteDragon

Gold Member
Lumen is heavy. They are all heavy on performance. They are worth it though. Dont be surprised if we see the same basic ass realtime light probe GI or baked lighting paired with SSAO we've see these past two generations
Well they did say they’re working hard on reducing the performance hit & the engine isn’t even officially out yet, so I’m a little optimistic. We’ll see what happens next year.
 

OZ9000

Gold Member
Graphic Fidelity of the current-gen expectations -> CGI TV CM of 'Last of Us Part II'
(Sony removed it from their youtube account, though)






If the PS6 could achieve those graphics I'd be very impressed

That looks far too good to be achieved on current gen consoles.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
First off, repost what you posted without the link to cancerous, shitty, racist website full of cunts and mentally ill midgets.

Secondly, I can’t agree with you on TLOU II. It was one of the most bland, forgettable adventures with some neat animations that often glitched out and didn’t gel into a cohesive vision. It’s Gore, one of the only selling points, was not even the best or all that unique. Hell, Manhunt and Punisher back on the PS2 had as, if not more visceral and gut wrenching gore than TLOU II.

Stylished games hold up so much better than these attempts at super realism. They always end up looking dated within a couple years after their release when the *next* big photo-realistic title releases. I would argue that we should just stop trying to pursue the needless graphical fidelity in general and focus on putting more resources into things that will have a tangible benefit. The game systems. The AI. The moment to moment gameplay. These are the only things that really matter since the PS4/Xbox One when “Uber graphics” got boring.
Not sure about tlou2 having worse gore than punisher or manhunt tbh...

Punisher was more exagerated, almost cartoony, and manhunt barely had exploding heads, not even arms or legs (if i remember well) and the microdetails are of course on another scale entirely on tlou2.

I think that when it comes to realistic gut wrenching gore nobody beats tlou2.
 
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