rofif
Can’t Git Gud
fucking hell.
Get of your high horse... it's not THAT complicated as you think
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Get of your high horse... it's not THAT complicated as you think
kyliethicc
Member
This is why I love Knack.
He has the most physics.
Why Knack is More Next-Gen Than You Might Think
Do yourself a favor and take a closer look at this PS4 launch title.
www.gamespot.com
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staticshock
Member
If you had 1% of the knowledge you think have, maybe you'd have some humility.
Not around people who call others a moron and ignorant because someone said a company that works for their plastic box maker isn't best at every department.
Whose retort is literally calling the company, the best, amazing at everything and considering things amazing that others do times 100.
Someone who can't even understand the basics of static and dynamic light sources. Who considers the use of 1 dynamic light source to be out of the ordinary.
Who can't understand the basic difference between a dynamic spot light and a dynamic directional light / skylight.
People who say things like Unchared 4, TLOUS2 has the same GI as TLOU on PS3.
and "When dynamic lights are required they had a custom solution for it, far more advanced compared to other third person games from the time."
I mean blatantly stupid things. That even the people whose articles he posts (DF) would call him stupid to his face.
I wish dictator or people from DF were still here. They would laugh at this none-sense.
nominedomine
Banned
They would be laughing at you if anything. Why would you care about their opinions anyway? They aren't engineers like you after all.
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staticshock
Member
Oh sorry does my intelligence and critical thinking embarrass you? I thought this was a technical thread? Sorry Let me scoop down to your level.
Naughty God are the greatest developers on earth. No one even touches them.
They have the best lighting, best physics, best water, best character rendering, best sound, best particles, best sand, best environment, best animations, best destruction, best cutscene. Best rain. Best weather effects. Best Fire. Best volumetrics. Best Cloud. Best Sky system. Best everything.
You remember their ship escape level? Its the best and most complicated level mankind has ever created. Till this day no one even knows how they did it. Its shrouded in secrecy.
You see the GI in their ps4 games? they are so amazing they had the exact same GI working in their ps3 games.
They usage of 1 dynamic light sources blows every other game away.
They are tech gods. Look at how many magazines call them tech gods.
see, see see:
"For a game where the desert is so important, Naughty Dog's implementation of sand in terms of pixel shaders and surrounding effects work is nothing short of remarkable."
"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."
I could post so many more quotes about how they are Tech Gods! We are not worthy of what they are going to release next!
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SLB1904
Banned
They are hiring tho. Maybe you can help them out. Just sayingOh sorry does my intelligence and critical thinking embarrass you? I thought this was a technical thread? Sorry Let me scoop down to your level.
Naughty God are the greatest developers on earth. No one even touches them.
They have the best lighting, best physics, best water, best character rendering, best sound, best particles, best sand, best environment, best animations, best destruction, best cutscene. Best everything.
You remember their ship escape level? Its the best and most complicated level mankind has ever created.
You see the GI in their ps4 games? they are so amazing they had the exact same GI working in their ps3 games.
They usage of 1 dynamic light sources blows every other game away.
They are tech gods. Look at how many magazines call them tech gods.
see, see see:
"For a game where the desert is so important, Naughty Dog's implementation of sand in terms of pixel shaders and surrounding effects work is nothing short of remarkable."
"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."
I could post so many more quotes about how they are Tech Gods! We are not worthy of what they are going to release next!
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
ooof... reportedOh sorry does my intelligence and critical thinking embarrass you? I thought this was a technical thread? Sorry Let me scoop down to your level.
Naughty God are the greatest developers on earth. No one even touches them.
They have the best lighting, best physics, best water, best character rendering, best sound, best particles, best sand, best environment, best animations, best destruction, best cutscene. Best rain. Best weather effects. Best Fire. Best volumetrics. Best Cloud. Best Sky system. Best everything.
You remember their ship escape level? Its the best and most complicated level mankind has ever created. Till this day no one even knows how they did it. Its shrouded in secrecy.
You see the GI in their ps4 games? they are so amazing they had the exact same GI working in their ps3 games.
They usage of 1 dynamic light sources blows every other game away.
They are tech gods. Look at how many magazines call them tech gods.
see, see see:
"For a game where the desert is so important, Naughty Dog's implementation of sand in terms of pixel shaders and surrounding effects work is nothing short of remarkable."
"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."
I could post so many more quotes about how they are Tech Gods! We are not worthy of what they are going to release next!
The cynicism level flies right over my head. I am literally 99% more stupid than you are... not sure what are you on about up there.
VFXVeteran
can provide details and examples. You are just annoyingstaticshock
Member
ooof... reported
The cynicism level flies right over my head. I am literally 99% more stupid than you are... not sure what are you on about up there.
Oh now I don't provide details and examples now that I'm pointing right at a company associated with your plastic box.
You fanatics never cease to amuse me. Did i poke too hard at your soft spot?
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It's not my plastic box.
I am not a fanboy of these games. I don't care.
But You seem like a mindless hater. Are you not ?
Just because it's on your disliked "plastic box", does not mean they are not doing something right.
Dodkrake
Banned
S
staticshock
is the embodiment of Dunning-Kruger. May as well change your username to that, buddy.
PropellerEar
Member
Senior SW engineer
Vick
Member
Posts don't disappear you know, they are still there in the previous page for everyone to see.
Stop getting emotional, stop deflecting, calling names, embarassing people with your misplaced bragging and simply post proof of a console videogame having dynamic wet shaders on clothes before Drake's Fortune.
Post proof a Console videogame from 2009 using per object motion blur, SSS and SSAO at the same time at native 720p + x4 MSAA.
Post proof of a videogame displaying shader based individual grains of sand falling inside footprints, and not just on 360/PS3 era or before 2011, but to this day in general:
Post proof of a console videogame from 2011 (or even today as far as i know) going to such lenghts to implement fire effects instead of simply using Alpha:
TechRadar | the technology experts
The latest technology news and reviews, covering computing, home entertainment systems, gadgets and more
www.technobuffalo.com
Uncharted 3 to push the envelope with fire effects
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception is set to continue Naughty Dog's tradition of graphical achievement by featuring procedu…
www.vg247.com
Post a video a console game from 2016 with this kind of bounce lighting.
Post proof a console video game from 2016 with better IQ than Uncharted 4.
You said:
So instead of poking users and acting all mighty on top of your fragile wooden horse, simply back up your claims. Do it or proudly take your well deserved "ignorant".
All this shitshow of yours could have been avoided by simply playing the games you felt the need to downplay, or at the very least do a five minutes research.
Acting like a denialistic, insufferable cunt and expecting respect in return is pre-school child behaviour.
You mean the same people who said this?
"Uncharted 2 was the game that changed everything, redefining the third-person genre, setting new standards in technology"
"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."
"Uncharted 4 delivers the best image quality we've seen in a console game to date. Even in the face of rare titles like Tearaway Unfolded, with its high quality MSAA settings, Uncharted 4 stands tall. Naughty Dog has developed a temporal anti-aliasing technique that delivers results that sometimes manage to approach the quality of a super-sampled image. Thin edges are remarkably clean, shader aliasing is almost non-existent, and shimmering is all but eliminated. Large, complex fields of detailed foliage remain razor sharp even at a distance while finer details on Nate's weapons remain clearly visible. We noted similarities to the hybrid-reconstruction anti-aliasing used in Far Cry 4 but we cannot say for sure how this was achieved. Perhaps Naughty Dog will share more information on this in the future, as the results are stunning and this technique could benefit console games as a whole.
Yeah, no doubt they would laugh at me and call me a moron.. for agreeing with them.
I would legit commit suicide by having even x10 of the brain power you displayed in this discussion.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lets all calm down. No need to get so hostile over graphics.
Either change the subject or take a break for a day or two, or I can start seeing bans handed out over dumb shit like this.
Either change the subject or take a break for a day or two, or I can start seeing bans handed out over dumb shit like this.
staticshock
Member
Says the person who called me ignorant and a moron. You sony fans are amazing.
That's not individual grain of sand. That's a texture that is being panned.
This is not even tessellation which is a whole lot more powerful.
This is simply applying a diffuse and normal map to the terrain where they step on. A particle spirit texture that faces the camera is also being spawn on foot placemen.
There is additional texture on top of it that is being panned using time parameter, which is what you are referring to. A FUCKING TEXTURE BEING PANNED!!!
And as you can see from your very own GIF. It only spawns on foot placement. Not hand or body. As it just goes through the terrain.
Your level of cluelessness. Wow.
This doesn't even touch the tech in for example Batman arkam Orgins
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Was playing Matrix last night and decided to see if Spiderman holds up in the PS5 fidelity mode, and while it doesnt come close to the Matrix visuals, the fact that a souped up last gen game looks this good gives me hope that Insomniac can come close to the Matrix with their own inhouse tech in Spiderman 2.
Night time doesnt look good, but this shot was striking in HDR.
Game looks its best during sunset lighting.
I hope they dont make the same mistake they made with Ratchet and go for a native 4k 30-40 fps mode. Settle for 1440p and use the GPU to push visual fidelity like the Matrix is doing.
This looks good but I am not getting OMG holy shit feel from Spiderman 2.
Night time doesnt look good, but this shot was striking in HDR.
Game looks its best during sunset lighting.
I hope they dont make the same mistake they made with Ratchet and go for a native 4k 30-40 fps mode. Settle for 1440p and use the GPU to push visual fidelity like the Matrix is doing.
This looks good but I am not getting OMG holy shit feel from Spiderman 2.
Vick
Member
I called your statement ignorant, which obviously was. The rest only followed your dismissive posts.
I know what it is (and what it wanted to achieve: individual grains falling inside a footprint gradually and accurately displaying self and directional occlusion), the point was how many game devs bothered doing such a thing? Is it not an out of the ordinary effort?
Ah yes, because Tessellation was clearly used on 360 and PS3.. that's how snow in Origins looked on the same Uncharted 3 platform didn't it?
Good job ignoring the rest of the post.
You're right and for what it's worth, i promise i won't engage anymore.
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SLB1904
Banned
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
To be quite honest, i love myself some online arguments. And I get that sometimes things get heated and insults are thrown around. it's normal to get angry so just to be clear, Im not tone policing. I just think it's ok to step back once in a while.
I am just glad this thread is getting some traffic. As a graphics whore, this gen has been a big disappointment. I expected this thread to replace the Next gen tech thread that was closed around a year ago so lets keep this going. I enjoy the back and forths.
Iamborghini
Member
Okay ... this topic is going out of hand, the main thing I see most of you doing wrong is comparing ART vs TECH. All devs would love to use the most accurate render engine like Arnold, Vray or Corona Render but the fact that theses engines takes hours to produce a very accurate image tell us we are not even close to a real time accurate rendering in video games. BUT, what makes games interesting is all the tricks the devs do to make it 'look' accurate, or at very least look "beautiful". Even UE5's Lumen use tricks to be able to run in real time.
Yes some of the game engines are more 'accurate' (imitation of real life physics) than others but at the end of the day that's not what maters, whats matters is HOW it looks, and if it does contribute to get closer to the original intent of the director.
I think it's pretty crazy to see games like The Order 1886, Uncharted 4 or TLOU2 looking this good in a real time engine, and that is achieved thanks to the art directors AND the enginers that are behind this black magic.
ART and TECH cannot be put appart, specially today with limited hardware. In the future we will use physically accurate scanned materials, with very high poly counts geometry and will use a real time unbiased render engine so naturally we will need less tricks.
Unreal Engine 5 is impressive thanks to the tricks used to make it run on our today's hardware.
Yes some of the game engines are more 'accurate' (imitation of real life physics) than others but at the end of the day that's not what maters, whats matters is HOW it looks, and if it does contribute to get closer to the original intent of the director.
I think it's pretty crazy to see games like The Order 1886, Uncharted 4 or TLOU2 looking this good in a real time engine, and that is achieved thanks to the art directors AND the enginers that are behind this black magic.
ART and TECH cannot be put appart, specially today with limited hardware. In the future we will use physically accurate scanned materials, with very high poly counts geometry and will use a real time unbiased render engine so naturally we will need less tricks.
Unreal Engine 5 is impressive thanks to the tricks used to make it run on our today's hardware.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yep. To me, both Art and tech are equally important. A game like Metro is now doing fully realtime ray traced GI which is arguably makes it the most technically advanced game out there. But does it look better than other games? Not even close. It doesnt even have the best lighting. What it does have is the most 'accurate' lighting but accurate most of the time is boring. Look at Marvel movies vs DC movies or Marvel movies vs any movie shot by a competent director of photography. They look like made for tv movies. 100% accurate lighting but doesnt mean they look better than movies with better cinematography.
This isnt a new argument. I remember back when Crysis came out, we had the same debate between PC and console players. Crysis had incredible tech, was technically more advanced than any console game that generation but I dont even think it was the best looking game in 2007. Bioshock, Mass Effect and Uncharted looked like playable movies. Everyone lost their shit when Gamespot gave their best graphics award to MGS4 the following year over Crysis Warhead but it was a total package. Cutscenes, animations, setpiece quality, amazing one shot takes, thousands of tiny little details. I actually think GTA4 was far more deserving that year simply because of those little details Rockstar managed to cram in that true next gen open world at the time.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I was going through some of my old captures and found these stunning shots from TLOU2. Now i know these character models dont look as good in game, but i think if ND can do this on a 1.8 tflops GCN GPU then they should be getting close to Neo's character model in the Matrix demo with the PS5 specs.
Just as long as they dont make the dumb mistake of aiming for native 4k.
Just as long as they dont make the dumb mistake of aiming for native 4k.
Shadowstar39
Member
Then don't run it at 4k. Who said 4k has to be a standard. I am using a $500 gpu (well more than that on inflated scalper market) the 3060ti and that card can't really run 4k content for newest games at a good fps. The consoles are less then or equal to the card. This card I would say is equivalent to a ps5. Like the 7870 ati/amd card was to the ps4.
Newer stuff in 1440p or 1080p. 4k native is not needed. Do better effects and graphics, and upscale it to 4k.
Whats really going to hold us back is the price of SSDs. Where is the price drop for expandable storage. A 1tb nvme m2 drive is still outrageously expensive compared to a hdd. When in reality they should be dropping in price, they are not. The consoles can only hold a handful of games. 2 if you have something like COD or GT7 on it.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Never ever say that better hardware isn't needed. That's what Bill Gates thought before extended kernal RAM in DOS was required for bigger programs. There will ALWAYS be a need for more clarity and a better approximation to the real world. To keep yourself from saying such nonsense, always invision a diagonal line on a whiteborard in the realworld with not a single stairstep. Now superimpose that analog straight line onto a digital plane with pixels. We want to get as close to the real world as we can. We don't stop just because people think a 1440p approximation is "good enough". We will need precision smaller than even that pixel on the monitor if we hope to get better clarity of the realworld. All those interactions with light adds up to accumulated "error" when the final pixel color needs to make that line. It's the same with texturing. We should never said 4k texture maps are good enough approximation.
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Lethal01
Member
Exactly, VictimFX suggesting that
really just showcases that he knows nothing and is simply talking about his preferences under the guise of being informed.
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Shadowstar39
Member
Let me clarify my thoughts, as that came out wrong, the line you mentioned. 4k native isn't needed right now for the consoles or games. Would we like it, sure, but with the juice we have on these machines and pcs really (but that can always be changed by using a better gpu). You can pump out more objects, more detail, ray tracing, faster frames, dynamic lighting etc... by lowering the resolution. Something that runs 30fps on 4k may run 120+ plus on 1080p or 60fps on 1440p. 4k is nice, but with upscaling its not needed all the time. Realistically it should be relegated to older games for native 4k treatment or indies. I don't play newer games at 4k on my 3060ti, why would the consoles be able to do it? You would need a 3080ti on one of those machines and those cost over 1.2k alone. Our expectations are too high for the hardware.
Really we aren't even getting flashlight shadows and dynamic lights in some games (looking at you dying light 2). You would think in 2022, flashlight shadows and real time lighting would be in, especailly with ray tracing. Hell we had real time lighting in 2004 with Doom, Thief 3, dues ex 2, riddick, prey and quake4 in the xbox/ps2/ geforce 6800 era.
Hawking Radiation
Member
I don't know the context here but posts like these always come across as embarrassing. Like seriously man there was no need for this wall of horse manure. Jesus what's happening to this forum?Oh sorry does my intelligence and critical thinking embarrass you? I thought this was a technical thread? Sorry Let me scoop down to your level.
Naughty God are the greatest developers on earth. No one even touches them.
They have the best lighting, best physics, best water, best character rendering, best sound, best particles, best sand, best environment, best animations, best destruction, best cutscene. Best rain. Best weather effects. Best Fire. Best volumetrics. Best Cloud. Best Sky system. Best everything.
You remember their ship escape level? Its the best and most complicated level mankind has ever created. Till this day no one even knows how they did it. Its shrouded in secrecy.
You see the GI in their ps4 games? they are so amazing they had the exact same GI working in their ps3 games.
They usage of 1 dynamic light sources blows every other game away.
They are tech gods. Look at how many magazines call them tech gods.
see, see see:
"For a game where the desert is so important, Naughty Dog's implementation of sand in terms of pixel shaders and surrounding effects work is nothing short of remarkable."
"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."
I could post so many more quotes about how they are Tech Gods! We are not worthy of what they are going to release next!
Hawking Radiation
Member
I'd be happy with this level of graphics for next gen open world games.I was going through some of my old captures and found these stunning shots from TLOU2. Now i know these character models dont look as good in game, but i think if ND can do this on a 1.8 tflops GCN GPU then they should be getting close to Neo's character model in the Matrix demo with the PS5 specs.
Just as long as they dont make the dumb mistake of aiming for native 4k.
PUNKem733
Member
Man why would someone as intelligent as you deal with us idiotic plebs? ONE OF US!! ONE OF US!! ONE OF US!! You MUST have a sad and empty life. You're the type to go to anyone you kinda know and show them your gaf posts, then pat yourself on the back.Oh sorry does my intelligence and critical thinking embarrass you? I thought this was a technical thread? Sorry Let me scoop down to your level.
Naughty God are the greatest developers on earth. No one even touches them.
They have the best lighting, best physics, best water, best character rendering, best sound, best particles, best sand, best environment, best animations, best destruction, best cutscene. Best rain. Best weather effects. Best Fire. Best volumetrics. Best Cloud. Best Sky system. Best everything.
You remember their ship escape level? Its the best and most complicated level mankind has ever created. Till this day no one even knows how they did it. Its shrouded in secrecy.
You see the GI in their ps4 games? they are so amazing they had the exact same GI working in their ps3 games.
They usage of 1 dynamic light sources blows every other game away.
They are tech gods. Look at how many magazines call them tech gods.
see, see see:
"For a game where the desert is so important, Naughty Dog's implementation of sand in terms of pixel shaders and surrounding effects work is nothing short of remarkable."
"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."
I could post so many more quotes about how they are Tech Gods! We are not worthy of what they are going to release next!
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kyliethicc
Member
It’s a gorgeous game. And fun. Just did my grounded play through.I was going through some of my old captures and found these stunning shots from TLOU2. Now i know these character models dont look as good in game, but i think if ND can do this on a 1.8 tflops GCN GPU then they should be getting close to Neo's character model in the Matrix demo with the PS5 specs.
Just as long as they dont make the dumb mistake of aiming for native 4k.
Docwiz2
Banned
Video games really are a first world hobby. I look at people I am helping in the Philippines and they can't even afford Internet (it's called "Load" on their phones) and can't even afford food either. $4 dollars a day is what their job gives them. Can you imagine working for $4 dollars a day in America?? LOL
Xbox Series X is sure going to have some good looking games this year....
1) Forza Motorsport (New Forza Tech Engine with raytracing, no pathtracing) - Next generation ONLY and FIVE YEARS of complete development on the title
2) RedFall uses the Unreal 5 Engine with an Open World Game... Single Player and Co-op play with Vampires with special abilities fighting against your group which also has special abilities, should be amazing fun
3) Starfield which uses it's own "Creation Engine 2" and uses photogrametry for environments and people along with a physics engine and A.I. engine both built in house as well as mo-capped animations
Then in 2023 you have Avowed which uses the unreal engine 5 and Fable by the end of 2023 which uses the latest Forza Tech engine with photogrametry for the environments as well.
We haven't even talked about Hellblade 2 or Contraband or Project Midnight either. LOL It's going to be a mad house over the next several years!
Xbox Series X is sure going to have some good looking games this year....
1) Forza Motorsport (New Forza Tech Engine with raytracing, no pathtracing) - Next generation ONLY and FIVE YEARS of complete development on the title
2) RedFall uses the Unreal 5 Engine with an Open World Game... Single Player and Co-op play with Vampires with special abilities fighting against your group which also has special abilities, should be amazing fun
3) Starfield which uses it's own "Creation Engine 2" and uses photogrametry for environments and people along with a physics engine and A.I. engine both built in house as well as mo-capped animations
Then in 2023 you have Avowed which uses the unreal engine 5 and Fable by the end of 2023 which uses the latest Forza Tech engine with photogrametry for the environments as well.
We haven't even talked about Hellblade 2 or Contraband or Project Midnight either. LOL It's going to be a mad house over the next several years!
Docwiz2
Banned
One of the things that you are not talking about is engines like the Unreal Engine 5, what makes this outstanding is that it not only offers more tools to turn average developers into outstanding developers, but it also allows developers to share their best code back to Unreal 5 Engine and sometimes for FREE.
So, this means that making video games are easier and less costly, but the Naughty Dogs of the world are no longer special as everyone can do the same things.
Sony's studios are vastly overrated, I agree with this in many ways such as Sony Santa Monica and Naughty Dog, but these next generation tools will really just end that debate altogether.
I know many PlayStation fans are going to be angry about this, but oh well, it's not a troll to say things like this, it's the tools man, it's always been the tools.
It's very valuable to save studios time when building games, and making them look next generation is huge as well.
Docwiz2
Banned
Was playing Matrix last night and decided to see if Spiderman holds up in the PS5 fidelity mode, and while it doesnt come close to the Matrix visuals, the fact that a souped up last gen game looks this good gives me hope that Insomniac can come close to the Matrix with their own inhouse tech in Spiderman 2.
Night time doesnt look good, but this shot was striking in HDR.
Game looks its best during sunset lighting.
I hope they dont make the same mistake they made with Ratchet and go for a native 4k 30-40 fps mode. Settle for 1440p and use the GPU to push visual fidelity like the Matrix is doing.
This looks good but I am not getting OMG holy shit feel from Spiderman 2.
Not trying to be mean, but only the last picture actually looks good, the rest look like something from the past. Maybe these are just bad pictures you are sending, but I don't see anything about this being impressive. I was actually shocked that you find them impressive.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The shots look more striking in HDR on my tv. I agree they dont look next gen thats why I said they dont come close to the Matrix. I specifically said the game doesnt look good at night time.
But in the context of what they have done with a 1.8 tflops GPU, i think there is hope that they can come close to the Matrix even without using Nanite.
VFXVeteran
Banned
You can't add but so much detail to the scene and have it be captured by lower pixel samples. To imagine this, go to a whiteboard and draw a diagonal line. Now try to superimpose that line on a pixel screen. You'll find that the realworld approximation to that line is inaccurate due to the pixel's stairstepping. Increasing resolution of the pixel grid will ALWAYS give better results than lowering the pixel count. When you have a scene that has so many sub-pixel computations like lighting and volumes, you want the best approximation to the real analog world. It will never be the case that it's "good enough". So adding more effects to the scene due to more bandwidth from lower pixel samples doesn't mean it's going to be captured by the low pixel samples. This is the same with texturing. No one is going say we have enough texture resolution at 4k and don't need 8k texture maps (or above) since detail in the real world is infinite.
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As someone who is working in UE5 daily and collaborating with actual graphics engineers, this ridiculous slapfight has been wild.
Graphics are a constant compromise of decisions and there is no one true best approach, at any given studio you've got 50 people trying to thread the needle of compromise to land at what their interpretation of the best balance is (of which there are many different ones depending on game focus and intent), so some random dickhead thinking he's got it all figured out just makes for a really embarrassing read.
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Lethal01
Member
It's good enough and other aspects should be given higher priority as they would benefit games more than just higher resolution..
Shmunter
Member
It’s all about smoke and mirrors, in games, in cinema. The more skilled you are, the better the illusion.
And the more efficient in deriving the illusion, the more there is left over for other things in the finite constraints of technology.
Naughty Dog is the benchmark of skill and tech to aspire to, no secret.
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GymWolf
Member
I wasn't impressed at all by spidey 2 reveal, like zero.Was playing Matrix last night and decided to see if Spiderman holds up in the PS5 fidelity mode, and while it doesnt come close to the Matrix visuals, the fact that a souped up last gen game looks this good gives me hope that Insomniac can come close to the Matrix with their own inhouse tech in Spiderman 2.
Night time doesnt look good, but this shot was striking in HDR.
Game looks its best during sunset lighting.
I hope they dont make the same mistake they made with Ratchet and go for a native 4k 30-40 fps mode. Settle for 1440p and use the GPU to push visual fidelity like the Matrix is doing.
This looks good but I am not getting OMG holy shit feel from Spiderman 2.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Do you think its cross gen?
Umbasaborne
Banned
I hope we can get away from cross gen soon, with supply and demand evening out a bit, how many more years of cross gen do we have to endure, hopefully only another year max
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
? I think it likely is due to artistic choice or if it is due to difficulty it likely is due to being cheap. Rendering a single frame of hollywood level visuals with the most advanced lighting in the most complex of scenes takes at most like 2 to 6 hours usually on a renderfarm, but I usually hear of rendertimes under an hour for most stuff. And I doubt you need much more than the rendering of a single frame to calculate static lighting for a static environment.
Perhaps they tested the difference and it wasn't too noticeable or test viewers preferred the cheaper method, and thus considered not worthy for now.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
EXACTLY.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
It DOES look better.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Lets stay on topic and not derail the thread.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I don't understand why people can't just accept that GI light probes are inaccurate and give the results you see there in just about every game. It's just a fallback of the approach. It's not some artistic decision to make added green color on top of everything in the scene moving. It is what it is and it needs to die.
This has nothing to do with hollywood approach to rendering. It's about trying to get accuracy with the limited hardware we have (and that includes Nvidia's best GPUs).
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Right.. just like 1440p looks better than native 4k right?
I've never in my life seen a bunch of guys insist on something that has a natural fallback of a cheap approach look better than what it's SUPPOSED to look like. That's fucking amazing to me. And all for the support of a plastic box with a label on it.
lol 2-6 is low budget productions & tv work. ILM and the big guys don't bat an eye at 40 hour per frame render times (the total of many passes precomp. It would be even slower if all passes were done in a single frame)
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GymWolf
Member
I was convinced of that before the announce.
I guess we have to wait until we get a better look at the game.
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
True some more complex scenes can take over 100 hours. But I've heard in many cases a few hours suffices.
So are you saying with their likely 100s of 20+K$ workstations and probable access to a renderfarm, they can't achieve good results even if they devoted a few hours to prebake the lighting of a scene?
Yeah, a single pass is a few hours - but any single frame you see in a hollywood movie is not a single rendered sequence. smoke, fog and particles are its own render of a few hours. each character is sometimes done as a unique pass, the background can be multiple, especially if you've got a seperate team working on foreground detail and one doing a matte painting for the distance. it's more nuanced than you think.
you also cant just 'devote a few hours' to prebaking lighting in a scene and have it run in real time. most of the things you see on screen in a 'hollywood' rendered frame have zero analogue to a real time engine - fog, hair, fur, simulations. They're also rendered in passes, so they're not even usually in the same file together and the look is all done in comp - so even if you do bring everything into one file and let the render cook, it's not even going to look like what it is supposed to.
and on top of that, you're talking about taking a scene which pulls 200gb+ of data between assets and textures and 'prebaking' it - to what? what map are you going to save all this lighting information in? A volume? What are you going to do with all the procedural shaders, like dirt and curvature being used as masks between tiling textures, what are you going to do about the displacement? Now everything needs UV's to bake this down into, and multiple channels - and uv's have to be set first, so before you do a single bake you have to consider viewing angle, distance from camera and uv density so that you dont blow through your targets with misplaced levels of detail.
you're talking mutiple people working for weeks on a single scene just to get it in a place where you can think about testing the first bake. and then it's going to have a ton of issues and need weeks of work after that to actually make it look nice.
edit: if you're literally just talking about having vfx hardware prebake the lighting in game scenes, they already do spend hours/days prebaking the lighting in video games using the same kind of hardware. the difference is all the decisions i outlined above have already been made and thats why it doesnt look as good.
Bear in mind i've spent 17 years working in offline CG using render engines like vray & arnold, across print & broadcast - and now I work with a team who's entire role is to translate those same ultra-heavy scenes into real-time using UE5.
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