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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

People say it's because of diminishing returns, but I disagree. There is plenty more you can do with graphics over what we currently have.

For example UE5 is a generation above anything on last gen and it would be stupid to think other studios don't have updated/new engines for the games they're currently working on behind closed doors.

Also, if graphics are "good enough" as is currently, then why even make next-gen games? Why not just release everything on PS4 and let the PS5 just soup it up with frame rate. Is that really what people want? They just want last gen-looking games at high frame rates? If that's the case, then I'm going to be a very sad gamer and it makes me kinda bummed that I bought a PS5.

I didn't buy a PS5 to play PS4 games. I bought it to be ready for the next wave of gaming. I bought it for PS5 exclusive games that can't be done on last generation.

Even games like Returnal and Deathloop don't really impress me graphically. R&C was great though, but I feel like with a few tweaks, it could've run on PS4 with loading screens at 1080p/30fps.

I don't think we've really seen anything yet. People will look at the beginning of this gen a few years from now and be like... yeah, those graphics actually did age quite a bit compared to what we have now.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Not sure about tlou2 having worse gore than punisher or manhunt tbh...

Punisher was more exagerated, almost cartoony, and manhunt barely had exploding heads, not even arms or legs (if i remember well) and the microdetails are of course on another scale entirely on tlou2.

I think that when it comes to realistic gut wrenching gore nobody beats tlou2.

Apologies if I am not being clear enough. I am not saying that TLOU2 has *worse* Gore. It just wasn’t unique in the way it portrayed it and there are a number of gory moments in those two titles I listed that are more visceral/grotesque.

As for things like exploding heads, microdetails, etc there are plenty of shooters around that had those details and quite frankly, they just aren’t surprising or exciting. Maybe I am just desensitized to it, but the gore in TLOU2 was not surprising, ”horrifying” or “gut wrenching” to me. It was just more of stuff I already. Had seen time and again in other games.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
I'm keeping my expectations low, but I do expect to be wowed more and more as time goes on. I'm not as much the graphics whore as I was in years past, and I generally still think the best last-gen games look really nice. Any improvements are gravy for me.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Apologies if I am not being clear enough. I am not saying that TLOU2 has *worse* Gore. It just wasn’t unique in the way it portrayed it and there are a number of gory moments in those two titles I listed that are more visceral/grotesque.

As for things like exploding heads, microdetails, etc there are plenty of shooters around that had those details and quite frankly, they just aren’t surprising or exciting. Maybe I am just desensitized to it, but the gore in TLOU2 was not surprising, ”horrifying” or “gut wrenching” to me. It was just more of stuff I already. Had seen time and again in other games.
Yeah a lot of games have good gore but like i said, attention to details (piece of glass in the head of the enemies you hit with a bottle, flying teeth, exploding brain pieces that fall down on the floor after a while etc.) And stuff like the gargle of death when enemies die are exclusive to tlou2.

I'm as desensitized as it comes but tlou2 gore and violence were something else, on of the major reasons why i love that game.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Yeah a lot of games have good gore but like i said, attention to details (piece of glass in the head of the enemies you hit with a bottle, flying teeth, exploding brain pieces that fall down on the floor after a while etc.) And stuff like the gargle of death when enemies die are exclusive to tlou2.

I'm as desensitized as it comes but tlou2 gore and violence were something else, on of the major reasons why i love that game.
I am glad you were able to get more out of it than I did. Always neat to see what others can see from a game that you can’t.
 

Lethal01

Member
Yes.

The post serves to demonstrate, its art over technical quality that we should aspire for.

Shows the opposite, we need to let devs less time getting the smoke and mirrors so they can create art quicker. Manually placing, adjusting and baking light probes is not what you want your artists doing, so let's get that raytracing asap
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Prettier graphics are fine. But my expectations for true next-gen is more detailed, realistic animations with less jank, more physics interactions within the game world, less barren-looking worlds, and more densely populated worlds with realistic destruction and more intelligent AI behaviors in NPCs, something we've never seen before in a real-time video game.
This too me is absolutely more important than graphical fidelity. I hate when game world is static, without any interaction. Or if it has bad animations. I am more likely to not play game, based on it's animation and physic, rather than graphic.
 

Kumomeme

Member
i expect the line of graphical fidelity between openworld and non-openworld type of game getting blurry than last gen.

expecting more and more game with RDR2 level of visuals. hopefully it become norm starting middle of generation and onward.
 
The fact that stuff like RDR2/TLOU2 even run on a base PS4 should make it clear that we're nowhere near what we can do with the PS5/XSX.

Hopefully Kojima will come at us with another MGS2 moment (absolutely gorgeous visuals for its time) but I'm not quite sure.
Bingo!!!
 
Here's some food for thought ...in another year or two the RTX 4080 will be out. Before the end of the generation the rtx 5080 will be out. Consoles are going to be so far behind.

That's a dumb comparison. That's like comparing a launch Xbox one to a 2080ti instead of an Xbox one x. The one x was regularly able to be had for $250 refurbished or about the same new if you factored in pack-ins. So basically, it was performing close to a $400-500 gpu AT MARKET PRICES. The scalping isn't going anywhere soon, no matter what some random YouTubers say. I just bought a strix 3080 for what amounts to a sweet deal today-- a mere $1180. This is in comparison to the $750 I paid for my tuf 3080 at launch. The tuf 3080, because it's a full hash card vs the lite hash of the more recent cards, is worth almost $400 more than its superior on all other counts stablemate. $1600 on eBay for the lite hash strix 3080 vs $2000 for the 'entry level' (but still amazing) launch TUF. I guess consoles are really underperforming price/performance wise though, right? A mid gen refresh Xbox is going to be THE DEAL in gaming. PS5s are still scarce and the prices on the secondhand market similarly ridiculous to GPUs but consoles are always going to be more plentiful, hence the deals that are the series s and x
 
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Graphic Fidelity expectations of the current-gen -> CGI TV CM of 'Last of Us Part II'
(Sony removed it from their youtube account, though)






Ya know...I Think Naughty Dog can get close to this on PS5.
 

Lethal01

Member
Ya know...I Think Naughty Dog can get close to this on PS5.

People forget PS5 is 10x more powerful than PS4. But more importantly, they forget these trailers are rendered on several 3090s linked together and still take hours per frame. PS5 just doesn't have close to enough power to get close to this look.
 
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TrebleShot

Member
I see a lot of people mentioning the mid gen refresh , have there been any leaks or suggestions to say well even get one this gen.

Seems there are still isssues manufacturing and releasing the current version of these consoles.

I think it will all transition to streaming tbh.
 

NahaNago

Member
I'm just expecting that we'll get 4k 60fps versions of ps4 games for this gen but maybe not quite at the last of us 2 level. Doubling the frame rate and 4x(?) the resolution will already use up much of that 10x the power of the ps4 that the pas5 has.
 
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supernova8

Member
I'm just expecting that we'll get 4k 60fps versions of ps4 games for this gen but maybe not quite at the last of us 2 level. Doubling the frame rate and 4x(?) the resolution will already use up much of that 10x the power of the ps4 that the pas5 has.

It'll be the same as it always is. The outlier "gorgeous" games' level of visuals from last gen will end up being the "norm" for this gen and then "outlier" gorgeous visuals will get replaced by whatever jaw-dropping game comes first. I'm talking the sort of stuff where it looks as though as it barely runs on the console (like Driveclub, GoW.... Ryse Son of Rome perhaps..) Only mentioning Playstation games because I just cannot think of many Xbox games that have pushed the visual envelope recently... maybe Gears of War 5?
 

rofif

Member
This is last gen running in real time on ps4 slim.... (yes, my ps4 slim images). Would be interesting to see 4k ps5 dc comparison
Death Stranding got the best looking characters ever. Tlou2 and uncharted 4 got the best everything else. Although DS environments can look incredible too



 
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SlimySnake

Member
This is last gen running in real time on ps4 slim....
Death Stranding got the best looking characters ever. Tlou2 and uncharted 4 got the best everything else. Although DS environments can look incredible too
lol That guy's character model looks incredible in that game. Mads looks incredible in some lighting conditions too.

People forget PS5 is 10x more powerful than PS4. But more importantly, they forget these trailers are rendered on several 3090s linked together and still take hours per frame. PS5 just doesn't have close to enough power to get close to this look.
See above. Ten years ago, if I showed you this character model running on a Radeon HD 7850, you wouldnt believe it.

Nowadays, devs are able to match the fluidity, DoF, higher quality character models and lighting conditions that make CG look so flawless. And they do it in realtime cutscenes.



Like you said, PS5 has 5.5x more tflops and 10x more processing power when counting IPC gains from GCN 1.1 to Polaris then from Polaris to RDNA. It should be able to come very close to that CG trailer at least in realtime cutscenes.

I mean this is what the game looked like in GAMEPLAY running on a 4.2 tflops PS4 Pro before it was downgraded to run on a base PS4.



 

NahaNago

Member
It'll be the same as it always is. The outlier "gorgeous" games' level of visuals from last gen will end up being the "norm" for this gen and then "outlier" gorgeous visuals will get replaced by whatever jaw-dropping game comes first. I'm talking the sort of stuff where it looks as though as it barely runs on the console (like Driveclub, GoW.... Ryse Son of Rome perhaps..) Only mentioning Playstation games because I just cannot think of many Xbox games that have pushed the visual envelope recently... maybe Gears of War 5?
Gears,hellblade, and Forza seem to be the visual pushers of xbox these days. I don't think gt7 will look much better than driveclub.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
People say it's because of diminishing returns, but I disagree. There is plenty more you can do with graphics over what we currently have.

For example UE5 is a generation above anything on last gen and it would be stupid to think other studios don't have updated/new engines for the games they're currently working on behind closed doors.

Also, if graphics are "good enough" as is currently, then why even make next-gen games? Why not just release everything on PS4 and let the PS5 just soup it up with frame rate. Is that really what people want? They just want last gen-looking games at high frame rates? If that's the case, then I'm going to be a very sad gamer and it makes me kinda bummed that I bought a PS5.

I didn't buy a PS5 to play PS4 games. I bought it to be ready for the next wave of gaming. I bought it for PS5 exclusive games that can't be done on last generation.

Even games like Returnal and Deathloop don't really impress me graphically. R&C was great though, but I feel like with a few tweaks, it could've run on PS4 with loading screens at 1080p/30fps.

I don't think we've really seen anything yet. People will look at the beginning of this gen a few years from now and be like... yeah, those graphics actually did age quite a bit compared to what we have now.
Diminishing returns is the stupidest of the narratives.

we are nowhere close stuff like love and robots on netflix, let alone star wars movies level of cg (or even real life).

i don't wanna hear about diminishing return until gta 9 is gonna have even the less important npc on the street with this level of details\animations and with a locations that looks like a real city, then we can discuss about diminishing returns and refining tertiary details like fluid physics on shit drops from birds and stuff.

 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
lol That guy's character model looks incredible in that game. Mads looks incredible in some lighting conditions too.


See above. Ten years ago, if I showed you this character model running on a Radeon HD 7850, you wouldnt believe it.

Nowadays, devs are able to match the fluidity, DoF, higher quality character models and lighting conditions that make CG look so flawless. And they do it in realtime cutscenes.



Like you said, PS5 has 5.5x more tflops and 10x more processing power when counting IPC gains from GCN 1.1 to Polaris then from Polaris to RDNA. It should be able to come very close to that CG trailer at least in realtime cutscenes.

I mean this is what the game looked like in GAMEPLAY running on a 4.2 tflops PS4 Pro before it was downgraded to run on a base PS4.



The gif with the bald dude is fake and you know it, that gif was never real real.

They are gonna get there and better on ps5 most probably.
 
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TheAssist

Member
That's easily doable at 1440p 30 fps. The problem is that devs like Insomniac and Playground Games have been targeting native 4k 30 fps (40 fps in the case of ratchet) and leaving a lot of performance on the table. Literally more than half of the GPU is wasted on rendering pixels instead of other effects that make the game look as good as Avatar.

This gif below runs at 1080p 60 fps on a GTX 970. yes, it's one scene. Yes there is no game logic but this is whats possible next gen if devs leave last gen behind.


I know I made that joke before, but seriously, every time I see this pic I just think "well, another beautiful day in the world of the Witcher 3"
 

SlimySnake

Member
The gif with the bald dude is fake and you know it.
Fake as in? It's from the gameplay footage that was running on a PS4 pro. Yes, it's pre-baked but technically all the animations in the game are baked in by devs.

it's obvious to me that the downgrade in GI, facial textures, and facial animations was due to them having to run this game on the base PS4 because clearly it ran flawlessly on the Pro.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Fake as in? It's from the gameplay footage that was running on a PS4 pro. Yes, it's pre-baked but technically all the animations in the game are baked in by devs.

it's obvious to me that the downgrade in GI, facial textures, and facial animations was due to them having to run this game on the base PS4 because clearly it ran flawlessly on the Pro.
The final scene ingame was pretty different, from the face details to the face animations to the perfect animation blending etc.

I really don't think that vanilla ps4 was the culprit, i think that they just aimed too high with that trailer (the whole trailer, from animation blending to graphics to ia etc.), a couple of teraflops more but with the same ram\cpu is not enough of a mismatch to cause such a difference.

I sported that gif well before you to show the progress of real time animations in this forum (before the game was out), it was my favourite gif :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
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Fake as in? It's from the gameplay footage that was running on a PS4 pro. Yes, it's pre-baked but technically all the animations in the game are baked in by devs.

it's obvious to me that the downgrade in GI, facial textures, and facial animations was due to them having to run this game on the base PS4 because clearly it ran flawlessly on the Pro.
Funny story, in terms of frame rate, the game ran smoother on the base PS4 than the PS4 Pro. There were some frame drops in the swimming areas on the Pro, whereas the base PS4 never dropped a single frame the entire game.
 

Tqaulity

Member
Diminishing returns is the stupidest of the narratives.

we are nowhere close stuff like love and robots on netflix, let alone star wars movies level of cg (or even real life).

i don't wanna hear about diminishing return until gta 9 is gonna have even the less important npc on the street with this level of details\animations and with a locations that looks like a real city, then we can discuss about diminishing returns and refining tertiary details like fluid physics on shit drops from birds and stuff.

Ummmm...Do you know what diminishing returns means? It doesn't mean we're getting to the end of CGI graphics where it matches real life. It means that it takes an increasingly high amount of computational power to yield the same level of improvements as in the past. So it means that a 10x increase in GPU power now will not look as noticeable as it did last gen...which didn't look as noticeable as the gen before and so on. As we get closer to photorealism, the more power it'll take to continue to progress.

Another way to think about it is (hypothetically), if you wanted to get the same visual jump as GOW (PS2) to GOW3 (PS3 ~30x geometric improvement over PS2)it would probably take 10x of a higher computational increase (i.e 300x power increase) to achieve the same level of impact. These aren't exact numbers, but you get my point. The problem of course is that the laws of physics haven't changed so we cannot increase the gen on gen jump in a 7-8year period to keep up with the scale. In fact, it's even harder to achieve the same level of increase in computational power within the same time period as previous gens (e.g. PS1 -> PS2 in 5 years saw ~20x improvement in geometric processing. But PS3-->PS4 only saw ~8x in 7 years!).

With the PS4 and Xbox One, the difference between 1.5TFLOPS and 1.8TFLOPS was often noticeable with lower resolutions, less visual FX, and lower framerates. However 7 years later, a 0.3 TFLOP difference is completely negligible and the 1.8 TFLOP delta between PS5 and Series X (which is an entire PS4) is mostly undistinguishable (from a visual standpoint). Hello Diminishing Returns!!
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Ummmm...Do you know what diminishing returns means? It doesn't mean we're getting to the end of CGI graphics where it matches real life. It means that it takes an increasingly high amount of computational power to yield the same level of improvements as in the past. So it means that a 10x increase in GPU power now will not look as noticeable as it did last gen...which didn't look as noticeable as the gen before and so on. As we get closer to photorealism, the more power it'll take to continue to progress.

Another way to think about it is (hypothetically), if you wanted to get the same visual jump as GOW (PS2) to GOW3 (PS3 ~30x geometric improvement over PS2)it would probably take 10x of a higher computational increase (i.e 300x power increase) to achieve the same level of impact. These aren't exact numbers, but you get my point. The problem of course is that the laws of physics haven't changed so we cannot increase the gen on gen jump in a 7-8year period to keep up with the scale. In fact, it's even harder to achieve the same level of increase in computational power within the same time period as previous gens (e.g. PS1 -> PS2 in 5 years saw ~20x improvement in geometric processing. But PS3-->PS4 only saw ~8x in 7 years!).

With the PS4 and Xbox One, the difference between 1.5TFLOPS and 1.8TFLOPS was often noticeable with lower resolutions, less visual FX, and lower framerates. However 7 years later, a 0.3 TFLOP difference is completely negligible and the 1.8 TFLOP delta between PS5 and Series X (which is an entire PS4) is mostly undistinguishable (from a visual standpoint). Hello Diminishing Returns!!
Yeah i know it's mostly a matter of lack of power an why we need bigger jump in hardware prowess to notice big differences in graphics, mine was just a rant for people who use diminishing returns as a way to say that graphics are already close to being perfect and there is no room for being wowed like past gens, when in reality we are still far far away and we are going to be wowed for the next 30 years when maybe we are gonna achieve real photorealism, and if we consider physics and interactions other than raw graphics, we are probably even further away (pulling numbers out of my ass, i don't know when gaming is gonna catch up with movies tier cg)
 
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Lethal01

Member
lol That guy's character model looks incredible in that game. Mads looks incredible in some lighting conditions too.


See above. Ten years ago, if I showed you this character model running on a Radeon HD 7850, you wouldnt believe it.

Nowadays, devs are able to match the fluidity, DoF, higher quality character models and lighting conditions that make CG look so flawless. And they do it in realtime cutscenes.



Like you said, PS5 has 5.5x more tflops and 10x more processing power when counting IPC gains from GCN 1.1 to Polaris then from Polaris to RDNA. It should be able to come very close to that CG trailer at least in realtime cutscenes.

I mean this is what the game looked like in GAMEPLAY running on a 4.2 tflops PS4 Pro before it was downgraded to run on a base PS4.




I'd say we have must have different opinions of what "close" would be, some people would the that TLOU2 on PS4PRO already looks close. I don't know why you'd think that 10x the processing power is enough to get close to something with 200x the processing power or more, it seems like you are underestimating the gap between the two. Realtime games are starting to have DOF, motion blur etc that no longer just looks flat out bad, but in CG those effect along with everything else just still look far better. Since they can take a whole hour just to process the depth of field much less the characters.

That all said, I don't need the game to come close to an actual prerendered trailer for me to see a huge increase in visual, if everything has shadows and there is no more glowing due to incorrect GI that's already a huge increase. And if everyone starts saying that games are pretty much CG now (Although they say this every gen)
then I'm happy for them.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I'd say we have must have different opinions of what "close" would be, some people would the that TLOU2 on PS4PRO already looks close. I don't know why you'd think that 10x the processing power is enough to get close to something with 200x the processing power or more, it seems like you are underestimating the gap between the two. Realtime games are starting to have DOF, motion blur etc that no longer just looks flat out bad, but in CG those effect along with everything else just still look far better. Since they can take a whole hour just to process the depth of field much less the characters.

That all said, I don't need the game to come close to an actual prerendered trailer for me to see a huge increase in visual, if everything has shadows and there is no more glowing due to incorrect GI that's already a huge increase. And if everyone starts saying that games are pretty much CG now (Although they say this every gen)
then I'm happy for them.
It's always fascinating to see how different people have different priorities when it comes to getting close to photorealism or just what they consider a big jump in graphic, like i don't care about any of that but i would massive use of photogrammery or nanite or what the hell you need to not have low res textures anymore or just a small but noticeable jump in interaction\physics with the world or even a far better animations blending for characters in game.

Who knows what we are gonna see during this gen...
 
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It's always fascinating to see how different people have different priorities when it comes to getting close to photorealism or just what they consider a big jump in graphic, like i don't care about any of that but i would massive use of photogrammery or nanite or what the hell you need to not have low res textures anymore or just a small but noticeable jump in interaction\physics with the world or even a far better animations blending for characters in game.

Who knows what we are gonna see during this gen...
Nanite is the real game changer. Not seeing LOD pop in is really weird at first and you can have almost infinite detail. I can't wait until they get it to work on more than just rigid objects.
 

SolidQ

Member
Biggest jump will be between ps5 and ps6. Especially double core count and double ram. 16 > 32 ram much bigger jump, than 8 > 16. RT also gonna be solid.
P.S one devs saying in 2019, for full Rt we like 20 years away
 

SlimySnake

Member
It's always fascinating to see how different people have different priorities when it comes to getting close to photorealism or just what they consider a big jump in graphic, like i don't care about any of that but i would massive use of photogrammery or nanite or what the hell you need to not have low res textures anymore or just a small but noticeable jump in interaction\physics with the world or even a far better animations blending for characters in game.

Who knows what we are gonna see during this gen...
Playing through TLOU2 made me really appreciate the amount of detail ND put into the game despite the fact they were limited by the shit jaguar CPUs. The breaking of glass in windows and especially in cars made it feel a lot more destructible than other games. Replaying the game with the SMG, you get to appreciate the sound design of bullets hitting and ricochet different surfaces. If you get a chance, enable unlimited ammo cheats and just shoot the SMG at random things. The sound design is incredible and various smaller items like monitors react to getting hit.

We all know how much effort went into different animations and all of this leads me to believe they will be one of the first studios to push destruction next gen. Similar to what we saw in this demo a couple of weeks ago.

 

TurnOneYeti

Member
I hope we get close to the quality displayed in the Arcane series on Netflix. I could care less about photorealism. I want my video games to look like animated paintings.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Ummmm...Do you know what diminishing returns means? It doesn't mean we're getting to the end of CGI graphics where it matches real life. It means that it takes an increasingly high amount of computational power to yield the same level of improvements as in the past. So it means that a 10x increase in GPU power now will not look as noticeable as it did last gen...which didn't look as noticeable as the gen before and so on. As we get closer to photorealism, the more power it'll take to continue to progress.

Another way to think about it is (hypothetically), if you wanted to get the same visual jump as GOW (PS2) to GOW3 (PS3 ~30x geometric improvement over PS2)it would probably take 10x of a higher computational increase (i.e 300x power increase) to achieve the same level of impact. These aren't exact numbers, but you get my point. The problem of course is that the laws of physics haven't changed so we cannot increase the gen on gen jump in a 7-8year period to keep up with the scale. In fact, it's even harder to achieve the same level of increase in computational power within the same time period as previous gens (e.g. PS1 -> PS2 in 5 years saw ~20x improvement in geometric processing. But PS3-->PS4 only saw ~8x in 7 years!).

With the PS4 and Xbox One, the difference between 1.5TFLOPS and 1.8TFLOPS was often noticeable with lower resolutions, less visual FX, and lower framerates. However 7 years later, a 0.3 TFLOP difference is completely negligible and the 1.8 TFLOP delta between PS5 and Series X (which is an entire PS4) is mostly undistinguishable (from a visual standpoint). Hello Diminishing Returns!!

Yes, but how do we even measure "impact"? Ultimately, it's completely subjective, and those are the returns we're actually talking about.

E.g. I was just as impressed by the jump from PS3 to PS4 as I was by, say, PS1 to PS2.

I think the jury is still out on how impactful this new generation will be compared to previous ones, simply because we've seen almost nothing from it so far. But I'd bet that, if next gen is when we get the shift to proper, comprehensive, ray tracing, then that jump will be as impressive as any we've ever had.
 

Lethal01

Member
It's always fascinating to see how different people have different priorities when it comes to getting close to photorealism or just what they consider a big jump in graphic, like i don't care about any of that but i would massive use of photogrammery or nanite or what the hell you need to not have low res textures anymore or just a small but noticeable jump in interaction\physics with the world or even a far better animations blending for characters in game.

Who knows what we are gonna see during this gen...

Just to be clear I like how Breath of the wild looks more than a lot of totally prerendered high quality CG. I'm just saying that the difference between a game rendered at 30fps on 10flops and one rendered at 1 frame per minute at a hundred Tflops will continue to be extremely noticeable. I'm not saying that it won't still be a HUGE jump from PS4, just that we have a long way to go.

I'd also love to see all the stuff you are asking for but I think things like shadows poping in right in front you or objects never having shadows/glowing from invisible light is just as noticeable .
 
lol That guy's character model looks incredible in that game. Mads looks incredible in some lighting conditions too.


See above. Ten years ago, if I showed you this character model running on a Radeon HD 7850, you wouldnt believe it.

Nowadays, devs are able to match the fluidity, DoF, higher quality character models and lighting conditions that make CG look so flawless. And they do it in realtime cutscenes.



Like you said, PS5 has 5.5x more tflops and 10x more processing power when counting IPC gains from GCN 1.1 to Polaris then from Polaris to RDNA. It should be able to come very close to that CG trailer at least in realtime cutscenes.

I mean this is what the game looked like in GAMEPLAY running on a 4.2 tflops PS4 Pro before it was downgraded to run on a base PS4.



Those shots are from the fake e3 trailer and are downgraded in the final game. I've tested it out myself the guys face doesn't look that good. I say fake even though the final game looks 90% as good because I have 0 tolerance any more for downgrades. Games are never 'upgraded, what does that tell ya. This wasn't even Naughty Dogs first rodeo with last of us being downgraded as they did the same thing from the 2012 lou1 demo.
 
People forget PS5 is 10x more powerful than PS4. But more importantly, they forget these trailers are rendered on several 3090s linked together and still take hours per frame. PS5 just doesn't have close to enough power to get close to this look.
Hmmm. I don't exactly agree...
 

drotahorror

Member
People say it's because of diminishing returns, but I disagree. There is plenty more you can do with graphics over what we currently have.

For example UE5 is a generation above anything on last gen and it would be stupid to think other studios don't have updated/new engines for the games they're currently working on behind closed doors.

Also, if graphics are "good enough" as is currently, then why even make next-gen games? Why not just release everything on PS4 and let the PS5 just soup it up with frame rate. Is that really what people want? They just want last gen-looking games at high frame rates? If that's the case, then I'm going to be a very sad gamer and it makes me kinda bummed that I bought a PS5.

I didn't buy a PS5 to play PS4 games. I bought it to be ready for the next wave of gaming. I bought it for PS5 exclusive games that can't be done on last generation.

Even games like Returnal and Deathloop don't really impress me graphically. R&C was great though, but I feel like with a few tweaks, it could've run on PS4 with loading screens at 1080p/30fps.

I don't think we've really seen anything yet. People will look at the beginning of this gen a few years from now and be like... yeah, those graphics actually did age quite a bit compared to what we have now.


This makes it so easy to read your text, thank you.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Those shots are from the fake e3 trailer and are downgraded in the final game. I've tested it out myself the guys face doesn't look that good. I say fake even though the final game looks 90% as good because I have 0 tolerance any more for downgrades. Games are never 'upgraded, what does that tell ya. This wasn't even Naughty Dogs first rodeo with last of us being downgraded as they did the same thing from the 2012 lou1 demo.
I mean this is what the game looked like in GAMEPLAY running on a 4.2 tflops PS4 Pro before it was downgraded to run on a base PS4.
.
 

drotahorror

Member
Apologies if I am not being clear enough. I am not saying that TLOU2 has *worse* Gore. It just wasn’t unique in the way it portrayed it and there are a number of gory moments in those two titles I listed that are more visceral/grotesque.

As for things like exploding heads, microdetails, etc there are plenty of shooters around that had those details and quite frankly, they just aren’t surprising or exciting. Maybe I am just desensitized to it, but the gore in TLOU2 was not surprising, ”horrifying” or “gut wrenching” to me. It was just more of stuff I already. Had seen time and again in other games.

As a complete gorehound for every type of media, TLOU2 to me is easily the most brutal game I've ever played. Fairly realistic and graphic depictions of violence. Can't wait for Factions.

Manhunt is comical and looks like shit, brutal when using your imagination though. TLOU2 doesn't need your imagination at all though. I really can't even think of a game that comes close to TLOU2.
 

Iamborghini

Member
yeah it is software based raytracing that doesn't even look much better (if at all) than better and faster competing tech like Crytek's SVOGI



tell me what looks so good in that demo? I get it, Nanite gives really high detail. the issue with that is, Nanite can only be used in 100% static objects... anything that moves, anything that has physics or animates can not use Nanite.

this means, Nanite will be great for static ground detail and absolutely static environment stuff like buildings or mountains... but as soon as you actually want something to be interactive, Nanite will not work.
what issues arise with that then is that when you have SUPER HIGH DETAIL ground and wall models using Nanite, any object that is dynamic and therefore can't use it will look out of place and low detail in comparison... so you will get into artstyle issues real fast if you aren't cautious about the use of it

I don’t know if someone corrected you but Ninite is not really about STATIC geometry but rather non-deformable geometry. That’s why the second trailer/presentation was with a giant with super detailed geometry but it was “weld” to his body like an armor, it was moving and animated but non-deformable. So you are right in a sense … it’s limited for now.
 

Malakhov

Banned
No games have yet to rival rdr2 for me. I mean, demons souls, ratchet and gotg looks damn good on a technical level but still won't change my mind about rdr2 being the best looking game out there, still.

So I expect something better than rdr2 for me, I'm waiting ...
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
As a complete gorehound for every type of media, TLOU2 to me is easily the most brutal game I've ever played. Fairly realistic and graphic depictions of violence. Can't wait for Factions.

Manhunt is comical and looks like shit, brutal when using your imagination though. TLOU2 doesn't need your imagination at all though. I really can't even think of a game that comes close to TLOU2.

Agree to disagree 🤷‍♂️
 
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