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[daffyduck]

What hypocrisy? I haven’t noticed anyone who doesn’t like this, that also looks forward to subscription only.

 

[93xfan]

They should at least have a system in place that when the severs go offline that there's a patch ready for it to be completely playable offline. All games like this should have it, for preservation purposes.

It’s inexcusable not to. Bad move if they don’t.

 

[Clear]

1. According to you.

Well obviously.

2. You've been "struck" wrong. I can connect and download game and firmware updates as needed. That is *not* equivalent to being tethered.

So its not really a problem, its all about your "principles".

3. The (actual) irony of you accusing someone else of rhetoric.

You just confirmed that its only a "problem" because you made it one. Hence your complaint is rhetorical, and not a matter of fact.

4. You have nothing substantive than to harp on about how it's not a problem for you, and that you speak for the majority.

I've advanced my argument. Unlike you.

You don't mind it, it's not a problem for you? Great, hypothesize as much as you want.

It is not acceptable for me.

Maybe not, but if you can't persuasively argue why your lack of acceptance is justified or even understandable, why should I, or anyone else, not simply discard your complaint as empty catastrophizing by someone looking for a reason to complain?

Sorry but just claiming a problem exists isn't enough.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Because cheating in singleplayer might get them into real eSports eventually as GT eSport is literally a massive deal celebrated worldwide and certified by the FiA.

Racing against AI is nothing like competing against real people, though. It's kinda like saying being good at Arcade Mode in a fighting game means you can suddenly beat Daigo in a FT5.

Does GT Sport (and hopefully GT7) at least limit it to a periodic check-in if not playing MP? I can understand constant online required for the MP, but it wouldn't make a difference if you cheat in the SP because if you logged in to play online anyway, they could just check for any suspicious activity and flag the account.

I mean, they're checking for hacks anyway, why not just limit the checks to when a person hops into an online mode/event? Just program a way for the game to log that type of activity with a scan. Kinda like how antivirus don't always need to be "on" but when you then turn them on and do a scan, they can detect threats as long as the libraries are up-to-date.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Pretty much every person who loves racing games and has a PS5 will be buying this at some point I bet. Probably same on PS4 for those who don't have PS5. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

I think its almost a law at this point: the more pre-release doom-and-gloom a game gets on NeoGAF, the more successful the game will be at launch.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

The internet is the future...

 

[daffyduck]

Well obviously.




So its not really a problem, its all about your "principles".




You just confirmed that its only a "problem" because you made it one. Hence your complaint is rhetorical, and not a matter of fact.




I've advanced my argument. Unlike you.




Maybe not, but if you can't persuasively argue why your lack of acceptance is justified or even understandable, why should I, or anyone else, not simply discard your complaint as empty catastrophizing by someone looking for a reason to complain?

Sorry but just claiming a problem exists isn't enough.

1. Yes, obviously.

2. Not true.

3. Not true.

4. You’ve advanced nothing. You just keep making false equivalencies. Why should anyone take *you* seriously?

5. This is a thread about the online connectivity of GT; are you expecting everyone is right, as long as they agree with you?

In fact, the reason they’ve stated is nonsense. If someone wants to “cheat” at single player, that’s their problem, if it even is a problem.

Now if it’s really about releasing a load of paid DLC/PTW down the line, they think someone might be able to simply enable the content for free, and they don’t know how to mitigate that, then why not give the real reason?

6. It doesn’t exist *for you*. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem for anyone else. Again, downloading the occasional update is *way* least stressful, than having to be concerned about how long their servers are or aren’t going to be functioning, or if they’ll be on when I want to play. There should be no need for it for single player.

Maybe they’ll patch it at the end of the games life cycle, and let people freely access their saves, but I can’t count on that.

Enjoy your tether. You seem to think people are telling you that you can’t.

 

[Clear]

6. It doesn’t exist *for you*. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem for anyone else. Again, downloading the occasional update is *way* least stressful, than having to be concerned about how long their servers are or aren’t going to be functioning, or if they’ll be on when I want to play. There should be no need for it for single player.

And there we are: So what it is, is you concern trolling about how long the servers are going to stay up for.

Why not just be upfront about it, rather than me having to wade through so many vague posts to actually get to the crux of the matter?

Could it be because, as I've been saying all along, that its not an issue in fact, but one of principle for you? And basically the "problem" only exists in your imagination, because its not actually likely to manifest -if it ever does- until an unknown time in the future.

 

[Buhaj]

[deleted]

 

[daffyduck]

And there we are: So what it is, is you concern trolling about how long the servers are going to stay up for.

Why not just be upfront about it, rather than me having to wade through so many vague posts to actually get to the crux of the matter?

Could it be because, as I've been saying all along, that its not an issue in fact, but one of principle for you? And basically the "problem" only exists in your imagination, because its not actually likely to manifest -if it ever does- until an unknown time in the future.

Once again, the *actual* irony of you accusing someone else of trolling, and “vague posts”.

It’s not a problem, because it isn’t a problem for you. Grow up.

 

[MScarpa]

It sucks, and I don't like it but it is what it is. We don't own these games anyway, who cares anymore

 

[Bobb]

Cross gen games, GaaS, TV TV TV, and online check-ins. I can’t hold back my laughter.

 

[Three]

I bet if Sony made an “offline only mode” where you have a separate save file that can only be used offline, nobody would touch it, including all the whiners in this thread.

I hate online requirements as much as the next guy but I wouldn't touch "separate offline only save mode" with a ten foot pole. Imagine paying real money for some cars then being blocked from playing online because you created an offline only mode save. Or you created an online only save and buy cars then you can't play with them in the offline mode because it's a separate save. The idea of keeping 2 separate garages when GT requires months of race grinding seems daft to me especially when they are selling cars and I bet they would actually end up with more legitimate owners complaining about the separate garages/saves than those complaining here about online saves.

 

[Three]

Racing against AI is nothing like competing against real people, though. It's kinda like saying being good at Arcade Mode in a fighting game means you can suddenly beat Daigo in a FT5.

Does GT Sport (and hopefully GT7) at least limit it to a periodic check-in if not playing MP? I can understand constant online required for the MP, but it wouldn't make a difference if you cheat in the SP because if you logged in to play online anyway, they could just check for any suspicious activity and flag the account.

I mean, they're checking for hacks anyway, why not just limit the checks to when a person hops into an online mode/event? Just program a way for the game to log that type of activity with a scan. Kinda like how antivirus don't always need to be "on" but when you then turn them on and do a scan, they can detect threats as long as the libraries are up-to-date.

I'm not sure what you mean by periodic but it's not periodic if you mean like every week/month or something. Its every time you enter the main menu it autosaves progress online. There is no 'scan' because there is no real way of knowing if a save file has been altered or not. The save file is kept on the server and synced. With the requirement it's easy to check for hacks if in the difference between syncs the guy has earned 20,000,000 Cr and unlocked 200 cars. Since there is a sync check every autosave this cheat would be easily flagged and sets an upper limit on what's earnable legitimately. Without it (ie only check if player decides to play multiplayer) there is no way of knowing if it's a hacked save or a legitimate one when syncing.

 

[JLB]

how is that the same thing?

how is not the same thing?

 

[too much eslim]

To the Sony apologists, if you would stop defending the BS you will get the change you want.

 

[Clear]

Once again, the *actual* irony of you accusing someone else of trolling, and “vague posts”.

It’s not a problem, because it isn’t a problem for you. Grow up.

No trolling here, I've just stayed true to my position that moaning about online saving is a nothingburger and can't really be justified as a legitimate complaint.
So far the only supporting counter-argument proffered is a vague concern about what happens "when the servers go down", but that's entirely hypothetical; hence me disregarding it as concern trolling because its problematizing something that hasn't happened yet.

That all you have left is ad-hominems (like the quoted) proves my work here is done.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I'm not sure what you mean by periodic but it's not periodic if you mean like every week/month or something. Its every time you enter the main menu it autosaves progress online. There is no 'scan' because there is no real way of knowing if a save file has been altered or not. The save file is kept on the server and synced. With the requirement it's easy to check for hacks if in the difference between syncs the guy has earned 20,000,000 Cr and unlocked 200 cars. Since there is a sync check every autosave this cheat would be easily flagged and sets an upper limit on what's earnable legitimately. Without it (ie only check if player decides to play multiplayer) there is no way of knowing if it's a hacked save or a legitimate one when syncing.

Huh. Well when you explain it like that then maybe their current setup works just fine. A tad annoying perhaps, but it seems like it does what it's designed to do: circumvent cheaters.

 

[Inviusx]

To the Sony apologists, if you would stop defending the BS you will get the change you want.

I dont think anyone is apologising. The always connected nature of the game (going off how GTS works here) improves the experience. There's no barrier between single and multiplayer player, all your progress from one carries to the other seamlessly. You must understand that it's a core design choice here, it's not a simple on and off switch.

 

[sn0man]

But I totally can see the problems with online only, if the servers close one day, the game will be rendered unplayable, which is obviously terrible too.
I think a good alternative would be like what some publishers do with denuvo, removing it at some point. Keep it online only to prevent cheating, but when you do decide to close the server, update the game one last time to make it playable offline, for preservation.

For a console physical release I’d prefer the opposite. The on-disc code is released with a playable offline single player game. The day-1 patch then comes and requires an online profile to save to.

Win. Win. The collectors / preservationists get a disc that works. The online version is purged of the cheaters.

Rinse and repeat for a definitive/ GOTY / A-Spec / 1.5 disc release. Full game on disc with no offline ability. Day-whenever patch to open online saves.

 

[onQ123]

Why would you care if someone is cheating in offline modes?

 

[Dr. Claus]

Once again, the *actual* irony of you accusing someone else of trolling, and “vague posts”.

It’s not a problem, because it isn’t a problem for you. Grow up.

Dude is a troll, just ignore him. The moment he tried to defend always online connections should have been a glaring sign.

 

[Tschumi]

I won't play sport.

Because i will NOT shell out for a wheel and my joystick driving is so clumsy I'd piss everyone off.

Anyway I'm happy playing SP.

 

[Wulfer]

I dont think anyone is apologising. The always connected nature of the game (going off how GTS works here) improves the experience. There's no barrier between single and multiplayer player, all your progress from one carries to the other seamlessly. You must understand that it's a core design choice here, it's not a simple on and off switch.

Damn, is that why Microsoft Flight Simulator works so good?? I mean it came out two years earlier. Think Sony learned something from that release?

 

[Neo 007]

Just in.......The Kettle I brought requires power to my house to boil water.

Mind Blown.

 

[StateofMajora]

To the Sony apologists, if you would stop defending the BS you will get the change you want.

They can’t, they just cry to mods to get people thread banned. Full grown adults.

 

[StateofMajora]

Just in.......The Kettle I brought requires power to my house to boil water.

Mind Blown.

Yet you don’t have to report to the electric company every time you use the kettle.

Which is akin to what gt7 is.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

This is idiotic. Who cares about cheaters in a driving game where races are segregated by car class. If a cheater cheats his way to an elite car he'll be racing it against other people with elite cars, not random noobs in GTIs. And sometimes the internet goes down, or people want to play at their cabin with spotty connection or what have you.

 

[Inviusx]

This is idiotic. Who cares about cheaters in a driving game where races are segregated by car class. If a cheater cheats his way to an elite car he'll be racing it against other people with elite cars, not random noobs in GTIs. And sometimes the internet goes down, or people want to play at their cabin with spotty connection or what have you.

Cheating for money is 1 thing but what about just giving every car 10,000 horsepower?

 

[AutumnLeaves]

The only thing preventing me from buying the game...I would like to play the SP when when the servers shut down, which will eventfully happen.

Imagine this happening to GT3, and you wouldn't be able to play that game...and I still play GT3 from time to time.

 

[clem84]

The problem of tempering with the save and then taking it online to compete. Isn't there a way to prevent this? Will all future games that have both online and offline mode be like this going forward?

 

[SLB1904]

how is not the same thing?

How is a drm system the same as a game needed to be online to save?

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Wait im pretty sure even GTS, you could play the random mission mode/license mode without online if your internet dies. Only for the actual online racing which was 80% of the game, you needed it to prevent ONLINE cheating. I dont see why would this be any different for GT7. hey want to prevent people cheating online, where is it written you need online connection to do license tests for example?

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

Cheating for money is 1 thing but what about just giving every car 10,000 horsepower?

As long as that’s only in that persons single player experience who cares?

 

[LeftThumbstick]

Forza Horizon 5 certainly didn't. Driving with friends was near impossible in the first 2 weeks. This was due load but also due bugs.

It didn’t stop you from being able to play, race online or save your progress though. It had its issues but it still worked.

 

[Tommi84]

Yeah, lazy ass BS... Just let me chose and allow ONE-TIME transformation from online to offline only (when the servers are undoubtedly turned off).

It should not be more difficult than adding a weather radar

 

[01011001]

Yeah, lazy ass BS... Just let me chose and allow ONE-TIME transformation from online to offline only (when the servers are undoubtedly turned off).

It should not be more difficult than adding a weather radar

especially given the past of the series. you can't play any GT online anymore other than Sports.

 

[Miles708]

This is idiotic. Who cares about cheaters in a driving game where races are segregated by car class. If a cheater cheats his way to an elite car he'll be racing it against other people with elite cars, not random noobs in GTIs. And sometimes the internet goes down, or people want to play at their cabin with spotty connection or what have you.

The overall point here (I think) is that this is mostly a solved problem already. Other games have shared online/offline saves, and it takes a check on connection to ensure everything is legit.

Requiring you to be online all the time is, simply, unnecessary.

 

[SLB1904]

Requiring you to be online all the time is, simply, unnecessary.

you only need to go online to save

 

[BlackM1st]

Because cheating in singleplayer might get them into real eSports eventually as GT eSport is literally a massive deal celebrated worldwide and certified by the FiA.

Esports ruin everything. I see 0 benefits for the average gamer. Same happened with the Overwatch Esports push. It just made the game worse for the vast majority of the playerbase. To some extent it happened with Bungie great idea of mixing PvE and PvP modes/guns in Destiny.

Fucking Esports/competitive should be kept on separate modes/servers and let single player / PvE ppl to play in peace and have fun.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Esports ruin everything. I see 0 benefits for the average gamer. Same happened with the Overwatch Esports push. It just made the game worse for the vast majority of the playerbase. To some extent it happened with Bungie great idea of mixing PvE and PvP modes/guns in Destiny.

Fucking Esports/competitive should be kept on separate modes/servers and let single player / PvE ppl to play in peace and have fun.

I think eSport should just provide everything available and choose from the mods you want (cars) or weapons/gear (Overwatch) and have nothing to do with your personal progression.

 

[cormack12]

Fucking Esports/competitive should be kept on separate modes/servers and let single player / PvE ppl to play in peace and have fun.

I cans ee why, but then people like me would accidentally turn professional.

 

[Guilty_AI]

How is a drm system the same as a game needed to be online to save?

"needing to be online" for a single player game is the very definition of DRM.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Just in.......The Kettle I brought requires power to my house to boil water.

Mind Blown.

Yeh I was pretty annoyed when the energy company ended the supply to my kettle rendering it useless but hey, that's the price we pay to stop people boiling milk.

 

[SLB1904]

"needing to be online" for a single player game is the very definition of DRM.

and what's got to with i said? gran Turismo having drm suddenly makes you console drm?

 

[Guilty_AI]

and what's got to with i said? gran Turismo having drm suddenly makes you console drm?

VVV

Guy: Gaming community evolved from considering things like this a total abomination, and herecy (remember the old good #ps4nodrm days?) to be totallly fine.

You: How is a drm system the same as a game needed to be online to save?

Me: "needing to be online" for a single player game is the very definition of DRM.

You: aNd WhAt'S gOt To WiTh I sAiD? *proceeds to move goalpost*

 

[SLB1904]

VVV

if you think a console having drm is the same as a game knock yourself out.

 

[Guilty_AI]

if you think a console having drm is the same as a game knock yourself out.

I don't know why you suddenly moved on to talk about console DRM, but i'll assume you decided to agree that what they did with GT Sport and now with GT7 is very much DRM.

 

[SLB1904]

I don't know why you suddenly moved on to talk about console DRM, but i'll assume you decided to agree that what they did with GT Sport and now with GT7 is very much DRM.

thats what you get for jump in the middle of the conversation with smart-ass comments..

the ps4nodrm campaign was regarding the console itself having DRM, not a game. DRM is not a new concept that always has been around forever for any game required to be online.
the user was using false equivalence as ''but but ps4nodrm campaign'' like is the same thing. if you don't get that i don't know what to say to you

 

[Guilty_AI]

thats what you get for jump in the middle of the conversation with smart-ass comments..

the ps4nodrm campaign was regarding the console itself having DRM, not a game. DRM is not a new concept that always has been around forever for any game required to be online.
the user was using false equivalence as ''but but ps4nodrm campaign'' like is the same thing. if you don't get that i don't know what to say to you

I read the conversation mate. He only mentioned the campaign to show people went from making whole anti-drm campaigns to defending it in a span of a few years. He wasn't directly comparing the DRMs.

If you can't interpret what someone else says, thats on you.