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[Three]

that is the only reason this has an online only DRM tho, THAT is the reason, nothing else... it is THE ONLY reason.
they want to SELL YOU CHEATS and do not want you to be able to cheat any other way.

If you consider that cheating rather than the designed game economy which most games have then I guess. Its like buying any other shit in most other online games out there now with their fake in game currency. I can't believe people are saying "so what if I cheat online" though, it's weird.

 

[01011001]

Forza Horizon 5 is also full of xp and money hacks as well.

and that is not an issue for anyone. as the game is not very competitive in this regard anyways. it literally shits cars and credits at you... I barely even play it and have more than enough money to buy multiple of the highest price cars in an instant.
you are cheating on yourself if anything... and like I said, it's totally unnecessary. IMO it is also one of the biggest issue of Horizon nowadays. it feels unrewarding since you get completely drowned in credits and cars. you literally don't even know what to do with it all most of the time

If you consider that cheating rather than the designed game economy which most games have then I guess. Its like buying any other shit in most other online games out there now with their fake in game currency. I can't believe people are saying "so what if I cheat online" though, it's weird.

well, how did you get XP or credits without playing the game on PS1? you cheated... you either entered some button combination on the main menu, entered a secret password... or you had an "XPLODER" or "Game Genie" like device/cart/disc to do it.
so yes. it is paid cheats, nothing more

 

[Inviusx]

and that is not an issue for anyone. as the game is not very competitive in this regard anyways. it literally shits cars and credits at you... I barely even play it and have more than enough money to buy multiple of the highest price cars in an instant.

Exactly, FH5 is just a playground, no competition. Just fun. So do whatever you want.

GTS and GT7 are the complete opposite. The integrity of the experience is 100% crucial as the game is all about competition. GTS even had official FIA certification. They couldn't have that with an unsecured platform.

And the game is all the better for it, it's the pinnacle of online racing for consoles. The progression of your player profile is also shared between what you do in SP and MP, its all tied together. So that's why they do it this way and why they keep it all locked down behind their servers.

 

[01011001]

Exactly, FH5 is just a playground, no competition. Just fun. So do whatever you want.

GTS and GT7 are the complete opposite. The integrity of the experience is 100% crucial as the game is all about competition. GTS even had official FIA certification. They couldn't have that with an unsecured platform.

And the game is all the better for it, it's the pinnacle of online racing for consoles. The progression of your player profile is also shared between what you do in SP and MP, its all tied together. So that's why they do it this way and why they keep it all locked down behind their servers.

as soon as you sell cheats the integrity is gone. there is no difference for the normal player, that doesn't have enough braindamage to buy in game currency to get cars faster, if you buy the cheat or enter a code to cheat.
the integrity is gone.

 

[Three]

well, how did you get XP or credits without playing the game on PS1? you cheated... you either entered some button combination on the main menu, entered a secret password... or you had an "XPLODER" or "Game Genie" like device/cart/disc to do it.
so yes. it is paid cheats, nothing more

With this kind of logic DLC is paid mods. So MS storing gamepass games in a locked encrypted folder on your machine (which blocks mods) is about selling you mods.

 

[Markio128]

Lol at this thread.

 

[01011001]

With this kind of logic DLC is paid mods. So MS storing gamepass games in a locked encrypted folder on your machine (which blocks mods) is about selling you mods.

they will stop that going forward and also there are games that support mods already (like MCC is very easy to mod). it's up to the developer to support that not Microsoft.
and yes, DLCs are paid content mods basically, doesn't change my point tho? like what does that have to do with anything now?

 

[PCH]

Thats such a smooth brain response and your knee jerk reaction is obviously based on not actually have any experience with Gran Turismo Sport and how it works. So if your going to call people corporate rats at least don't make it look like your just pulling stuff out of your ass.

Its exactly how it works, for example group 3 events in GTS have between 500-600 hp, fall under some weight to make a group. You won`t be racing Group 1 cars with it(unless there will be event that allow such thigs)
I am not sure why we even discussing it- cars are in game objects not save file object. I guess you can edit a car into safe file but not change car values for in game handling that is part of a model in game.
Judging by your angry response my name calling was spot on.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

1. I'm against always online for any single player stuff, period.

2. We've literally known about this for months.

3. Anyone saying they won't buy the game because it's always online never had any intention of getting it in the first place.

 

[PCH]

That's the debate you want to get into? I'm not ecstatic about it but at the very least the guy buying the credits with real money grinded somewhere else and is funding the free content updates I'm getting. Just like in GT Sport. What's the guy hacking a save file doing for me?

Everyone have do something for you otherwise they just dead weight? Interesting philosophy.
I think they can make various new cars available for purchase, tracks, maybe some other cosmetic items, just to please people in countless "which corporation made more this year" threads. Selling in game credits is nothing but more mxt, i must be very old, cause i think we were doing very well before that shit hit gaming.

 

[Three]

they will stop that going forward and also there are games that support mods already (like MCC is very easy to mod). it's up to the developer to support that not Microsoft.
and yes, DLCs are paid content mods basically, doesn't change my point tho? like what does that have to do with anything now?

Its gamepass PC wide. It's not up to the developer. My point is that they encrypted it for security and not to sell you things that aren't other things. Buying DLC isn't paid mods and buying cars isn't paid cheats. You're paying for content creation whether indirectly or directly.

 

[01011001]

Its gamepass PC wide. It's not up to the developer. My point is that they encrypted it for security and not to sell you things that aren't other things. Buying DLC isn't paid mods and buying cars isn't paid cheats. You're paying for content creation whether indirectly or directly.

you are not paying for cars. you are paying TO UNLOCK cars that you can also grind to unlock. therefore CHEATING.

also you CAN MOD GAMES that are sold in the Microsoft Store. developers have to take special steps to enable this currently, but there are some that actually cared and did so.
going forward this will not be done anymore. after an update this year developers can chose to make their games use normal folders like any other game on PC.

also, there are tons of Steam games you can not mod without getting banned. basically amounting to the same issue

 

[Three]

Everyone have do something for you otherwise they just dead weight? Interesting philosophy.

What's interesting about it? If some guy is cheating by hacking saves to get an advantage over everyone else in online why should I be fine with that? If somebody buys cars at least the guy buying things is helping with game content I'm getting free. I'm just saying that is the designed game economy and there is no reason to defend those cheating it to avoid competing like everyone else.

Could you imagine some guy committing
fraud and saying something as silly as "why do you care that I commit fraud, does everyone have to do something for you? interesting philosophy". There's nothing interesting. You're just cheating to gain an advantage over others online and providing nothing to anybody. It's wierd to defend that. Yes mtx and GaaS suck but in the old days there was little to no post launch support for a game either. Though one can argue some devs just give us incomplete games now.

you are not paying for cars. you are paying TO UNLOCK cars that you can also grind to unlock. therefore CHEATING.

also you CAN MOD GAMES that are sold in the Microsoft Store. developers have to take special steps to enable this currently, but there are some that actually cared and did so.
going forward this will not be done anymore. after an update this year developers can chose to make their games use normal folders like any other game on PC.

also, there are tons of Steam games you can not mod without getting banned. basically amounting to the same issue

Not surprised you're trying your best defending the encrypted folder on gamepass games blocking mods while missing the point.

The point is that the cheating analogy doesn't work because those buying content fund content creation and game support. It's not "cheats" just as DLC isn't "mods" and content security isn't related to blocking cheats or mods for payment.

 

[01011001]

Not surprised you're trying your best defending the encrypted folder on gamepass games blocking mods while missing the point.

The point is that the cheating analogy doesn't work because those buying content fund content creation and game support. It's not "cheats" just as DLC isn't "mods" and content security isn't related to blocking cheats or mods for payment.

I am not defending anything, I present facts... which is crazy right? facts... you can mod games bought on the Microsoft Store (also stop calling them gamepass games... not every game in that store is in Gamepass) that is a fact. look up some Halo mods, the game has a separate launcher even for mod support (so to not interfere with the unmodded game). Minecraft is also easy to mod

meanwhile, go and try to mod any modern game on Steam... most of them you won't be able to mod without jumping through 20 hoops or getting banned.

also, no it's still cheating. just because you give the developers money for your cheats doesn't change that. it has the same outcome as entering a cheat code in a PS1 game to unlock a car you would otherwise need to grind for.
there is no "integrity" which was one of the original defences you came up with. it's simply people playing to unlock or people throwing money at their screen to unlock. either way, cheating or not, the integrity of the game is gone and to the normal user it would make zero difference how that rich guy got his cars.

 

[Three]

I am not defending anything, I present facts... which is crazy right? facts... you can mod games bought on the Microsoft Store (also stop calling them gamepass games... not every game in that store is in Gamepass) that is a fact. look up some Halo mods, the game has a separate launcher even for mod support (so to not interfere with the unmodded game). Minecraft is also easy to mod

meanwhile, go and try to mod any modern game on Steam... most of them you won't be able to mod without jumping through 20 hoops or getting banned.

also, no it's still cheating. just because you give the developers money for your cheats doesn't change that. it has the same outcome as entering a cheat code in a PS1 game to unlock a car you would otherwise need to grind for.
there is no "integrity" which was one of the original defences you came up with. it's simply people playing to unlock or people throwing money at their screen to unlock. either way, cheating or not, the integrity of the game is gone and to the normal user it would make zero difference how that rich guy got his cars.

Maybe because I'm talking about gamepass games specifically. Not sure why you're trying to say steam is worse (it isn't) as if that somehow helps your case.

It makes all the difference how the other guy got his car. One funds that free content for me. Hacking save files doesn't. Ok, so if I create a car and sell it in a car pack, blocked from being earnable free by other players. If somebody buys it, are they buying cheats? Because I know a game you defend that does that.

 

[01011001]

Maybe because I'm talking about gamepass games specifically. Not sure why you're trying to say steam is worse (it isn't) as if that somehow helps your case.

so you are not imagining words I see... where did I say Steam is worse? I said there are games on both store fronts that can be modded, and games on both that can not be modded. it has nothing to do with the file structure (which is easy to get into btw)

It makes all the difference how the other guy got his car. One funds that free content for me. Hacking save files doesn't. Ok, so if I create a car and sell it in a car pack, blocked from being earnable free by other players. If somebody buys it, are they buying cheats? Because I know a game you defend that does that.

have I ever said car packs are cheats? i said, unlocking CURRENCY in order to unlock a car that can be unlocked by playing is the equivalent of paid cheating and therefore completely destroys the integrity of the game

 

[Three]

so you are not imagining words I see... where did I say Steam is worse? I said there are games on both store fronts that can be modded, and games on both that can not be modded. it has nothing to do with the file structure (which is easy to get into btw)

You mentioned steam like this:

meanwhile, go and try to mod any modern game on Steam... most of them you won't be able to mod without jumping through 20 hoops or getting banned

have I ever said car packs are cheats? i said, unlocking CURRENCY in order to unlock a car that can be unlocked by playing is the equivalent of paid cheating and therefore completely destroys the integrity of the game

I knew you'd come up with an excuse for car packs that can't even be unlocked for your other game.

What do you think you're going to spend currency on in GT? Buying a house with a beach view?

Your arguments don't make sense.

 

[01011001]

You mentioned steam like this:

yes, and it is true. hence, both stores have games you can and you can not mod. it is easier for devs to make their games moddable on Steam, but it is ultimately down to the developer not the storefront or the folder structure

I knew you'd come up with an excuse for car packs that can't even be earned.

What do you think you're going to spend currency on in GT? Buying a house with a beach view?

Your arguments don't make sense.

there is no excuse. can you buy in game currency that can unlock cars that come with the game and can also be unlocked for free? if yes then that is just paid cheating.
I never argued for anything else or against anything else. if you thought I did you really have to learn to read because I haven't

skipping progression through money = paid cheats
skipping progression through codes = unpaid cheats
buying new cars otherwise unobtainable = something completely different and ultimately not a good enough reason to have a practically online only game

 

[Aenima]

Its exactly how it works, for example group 3 events in GTS have between 500-600 hp, fall under some weight to make a group. You won`t be racing Group 1 cars with it(unless there will be event that allow such thigs)
I am not sure why we even discussing it- cars are in game objects not save file object. I guess you can edit a car into safe file but not change car values for in game handling that is part of a model in game.
Judging by your angry response my name calling was spot on.

You can change car values using hacked saves, not sure how much you can change but a common hack to give an advantage in GT6 was engine swaps, small changes in PP and changing the downforce of cars.
GT5 and GT6 was plagued with save hacks, while the most shared save files was 100% saves with every car unlocked and lots of credits, ppl had to do private lobbies to avoid cheaters online, and lots of cheaters could go undetected because they only did small changes that would give them an edge but still required some skill.
In consequence, Polyphony had to try patch the game to stop this stuff hurting the content updates for the game.

I understand the concern about whats gonna happen to the save files once / if they close they servers. But thers options they can do like patching the game to allow local saves and let players transfer the saves to the console. We dont know whats gonna happen cuz GT Sport is they 1st game using this, and the servers are still healthy and running. I can even go on they website using the PC, login with my PSN ID and see my GT Sport profile, see my liveries, decals, photos, the comments ppl left in the stuff i shared, etc without even login in the game since 2018.

Would be better if they had found a way to avoid cheating while allowing local save files, but im glad GT Sport and GT7 will not be a cheat fest that was GT5 and GT6.

 

[Three]

yes, and it is true. hence, both stores have games you can and you can not mod. it is easier for devs to make their games moddable on Steam, but it is ultimately down to the developer not the storefront or the folder structure



there is no excuse. can you buy in game currency that can unlock cars that come with the game and can also be unlocked for free? if yes then that is just paid cheating.
I never argued for anything else or against anything else. if you thought I did you really have to learn to read because I haven't

skipping progression through money = paid cheats
skipping progression through codes = unpaid cheats
buying new cars otherwise unobtainable = something completely different and ultimately not a good enough reason to have a practically online only game

Its up to the folder structure because gamepass games are installed in a locked and encrypted folder. Stop.

People skipping progression through money = new cars added to game throughout the year (free to earn through progression too) = cheating to you.

skipping progression through car packs in the xbox game you mention earlier through money = not cheating to you. reasons unknow. The fact that you didnt have to buy in game "CURRENCY" before you bought the car pack for real money isn't a valid reason.

 

[PCH]

You can change car values using hacked saves, not sure how much you can change but a common hack to give an advantage in GT6 was engine swaps, small changes in PP and changing the downforce of cars.
GT5 and GT6 was plagued with save hacks, while the most shared save files was 100% saves with every car unlocked and lots of credits, ppl had to do private lobbies to avoid cheaters online, and lots of cheaters could go undetected because they only did small changes that would give them an edge but still required some skill.
In consequence, Polyphony had to try patch the game to stop this stuff hurting the content updates for the game.

I understand the concern about whats gonna happen to the save files once / if they close they servers. But thers options they can do like patching the game to allow local saves and let players transfer the saves to the console. We dont know whats gonna happen cuz GT Sport is they 1st game using this, and the servers are still healthy and running. I can even go on they website using the PC, login with my PSN ID and see my GT Sport profile, see my liveries, decals, photos, the comments ppl left in the stuff i shared, etc without even login in the game since 2018.

Would be better if they had found a way to avoid cheating while allowing local save files, but im glad GT Sport and GT7 will not be a cheat fest that was GT5 and GT6.

Sounds like idiotic way to store car model values in save file/not checking those values when entering a lobby. I dont play much online so i did not experience that in GT5 or GT6, mostly idiot drivers with a grudge what i have seen. I probably could not care less if someone has all cars and lots of credits but would not like someone having unfair advantage. Just maybe they could do checks before you enter for legitimate online save data, or if you want to race online, sync save and then have it in their servers, but they decided on DRM.
This game is not for me then, you guys enjoy.

 

[PCH]

What's interesting about it? If some guy is cheating by hacking saves to get an advantage over everyone else in online why should I be fine with that? If somebody buys cars at least the guy buying things is helping with game content I'm getting free. I'm just saying that is the designed game economy and there is no reason to defend those cheating it to avoid competing like everyone else.

Could you imagine some guy committing
fraud and saying something as silly as "why do you care that I commit fraud, does everyone have to do something for you? interesting philosophy". There's nothing interesting. You're just cheating to gain an advantage over others online and providing nothing to anybody. It's wierd to defend that. Yes mtx and GaaS suck but in the old days there was little to no post launch support for a game either. Though one can argue some devs just give us incomplete games now.



Not surprised you're trying your best defending the encrypted folder on gamepass games blocking mods while missing the point.

The point is that the cheating analogy doesn't work because those buying content fund content creation and game support. It's not "cheats" just as DLC isn't "mods" and content security isn't related to blocking cheats or mods for payment.

That`s not what i meant, you said:
"What's the guy hacking a save file doing for me?"
I did not know he have some obligations to do things for you. Just interesting that in your philosophy someone have to do something to benefit you. That`s all.
Cheating in game is not "fraud" so I can`t imagine it being the same, hence i don`t see a point of discussing your fraud analogy any further.
You also assumed, all people who would magically edit their PS5 save somehow, will go straight online, look for lobby you in and just to annoy you personally -show you their cheated credits. At the end of a day - it is just a video game, you should just laugh at child idiots with lots of credits as this won`t make him/her any better at the game and executing corners by getting apex right.
You right about mtx and GaaS- it suck! I would give up post game support and this new way of gaming -"you will own nothing and like it" that another company is promoting to just have completed games at release without mxt and DRM.

 

[01011001]

Its up to the folder structure because gamepass games are installed in a locked and encrypted folder. Stop.

how do you think people can mod Halo MCC and Minecraft? they can... you can... you can easily find mods and install them for these games... weird right? because the developers wanted that to be possible and they could do it even on the Microsoft Store.
also the folders are not "encrypted" they are locked from everyday users. I know how to get in there and it's maybe 3 or 4 clicks if you know how, and everyone who wants to can do it.

People skipping progression through money = new cars added to game throughout the year (free to earn through progression too) = cheating to you.

skipping progression through car packs in the xbox game you mention earlier through money = not cheating to you. reasons unknow. The fact that you didnt have to buy in game "CURRENCY" before you bought the car pack for real money isn't a valid reason.

1: yes it is cheating. it is skipping progression to unlock. that is very much exactly like cheating in any older title.
"I want to unlock all the Songs in Guitar Hero 3 without playing through the campaign... let me look up a code online"
"I want to unlock all the Songs in Guitar Hero 3 without playing through the campaign... let my buy some currency"

aside from the fact that you can't buy currency to unlock songs in GH3, the point I'm making here surely demonstrates how both are the same outcome to the same goal with the only difference being the way to get to the goal.

2: YOU CAN NOT unlock cars that are DLCs in Forza. You can unlock cars or you can buy cars, the two pools of available cars do not overlap. you can't skip progression through money. and therefore it is not comparable at all.

SKIPPING PROGRESSION = CHEATING, very easy concept. you don't skip progression by buying a car with real money in Forza Horizon 5, you buy cars that would be otherwise unavailable to you and have been released as additional content.
free cars that get added are only unlockable by playing the game, doing challenges or buying them with your currency in the auction house. the currency which you unlocked by playing of course

 

[V4skunk]

If it works the same as GTS then you'll still be able to play the campaign offline.
You won't get a daily log on bonus or be ble to use certain features though, like possibly the used car dealer and special singleplayer events with online scoreboards.

 

[01011001]

If it works the same as GTS then you'll still be able to play the campaign offline.
You won't get a daily log on bonus or be ble to use certain features though, like possibly the used car dealer and special singleplayer events with online scoreboards.

you can't play anything of note offline in GTS. the only offline mode is an arcade racing mode that has zero progression and does not use any of your saved cars. you have like 7 cars and a few tracks only and it's like playing an Arcade Machine basically

 

[V4skunk]

you can't play anything of note offline in GTS. the only offline mode is an arcade racing mode that has zero progression and does not use any of your saved cars. you have like 7 cars and a few tracks only and it's like playing an Arcade Machine basically

You can play all of the single player races offline and to use your own cars in arcade mode you have to select pick cars from garage just before or in car selection.

 

[01011001]

You can play all of the single player races offline and to use your own cars in arcade mode you have to select pick cars from garage just before or in car selection.

ok so you can use your cars. didn't know that. still there is no real "campaign" here. you play races, none of it gets saved. it's not really an offline mode that is of any value

 

[Trimesh]

GTS and GT7 are the complete opposite. The integrity of the experience is 100% crucial as the game is all about competition. GTS even had official FIA certification. They couldn't have that with an unsecured platform.

So it's going to be complete joyless shit, just like GTS. Got it. Oh well, saves me a bit of time at least.

 

[jigglet]

I feel like this is such a non-issue. Sure, when they eventually kill the servers in 10-15 years

Don't they release new GT games every 3-5 years? I don't see how this is going to stay up for 10-15 years. GT isn't run as a true GaaS game.

 

[Three]

That`s not what i meant, you said:
"What's the guy hacking a save file doing for me?"
I did not know he have some obligations to do things for you. Just interesting that in your philosophy someone have to do something to benefit you. That`s all.
Cheating in game is not "fraud" so I can`t imagine it being the same, hence i don`t see a point of discussing your fraud analogy any further.
You also assumed, all people who would magically edit their PS5 save somehow, will go straight online, look for lobby you in and just to annoy you personally -show you their cheated credits. At the end of a day - it is just a video game, you should just laugh at child idiots with lots of credits as this won`t make him/her any better at the game and executing corners by getting apex right.
You right about mtx and GaaS- it suck! I would give up post game support and this new way of gaming -"you will own nothing and like it" that another company is promoting to just have completed games at release without mxt and DRM.

You're changing the topic. Somebody said "so what if somebody cheats online when playing against you". You say it wont make them any better in the game but it will. Stop trying to make it seem like it's just credits vs cars and tuning. they are not separate things.

The fraud analogy was to just show you how deflecting the issue to those who buy things in the game didn't make the cheating any better.

I'll give you an example:
Some guy fakes all his grades to get into university then argues this is totally fine because "what about that guy who donated a library and his son got in".
As I said I'm not ecstatic about the other guy doing that too but at least I'm getting a library. The fraudsters only rebuttal being "well does everyone have to do something for you? Interesting philosophy". I'd tell that guy to get lost mate this isn't about philosophy, you're a fraudster and there's no defending that. That's my philosophy.

how do you think people can mod Halo MCC and Minecraft?
also the folders are not "encrypted" they are locked from everyday users. I know how to get in there and it's maybe 3 or 4 clicks if you know how, and everyone who wants to can do it.

I'm not going to get into an endless debate because it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. Even with the game you think is moddable.
To mod the MS store Halo MCC instead of Steam store MCC this was what you had to do. Follow the link and do a ctrl+F for 'encryption' and why you had to do this. Gamepass games currently encrypt files. You're going way off topic with this anyway.

2: YOU CAN NOT unlock cars that are DLCs in Forza. You can unlock cars or you can buy cars, the two pools of available cars do not overlap. you can't skip progression through money. and therefore it is not comparable at all.

SKIPPING PROGRESSION = CHEATING, very easy concept. you don't skip progression by buying a car with real money in Forza Horizon 5, you buy cars that would be otherwise unavailable to you and have been released as additional content.

What a bunch of sorry excuses why it's ok for you in the other game. So buying some super car = totally fine and not equivalent to cheating because people who don't pay can't get them?

You're wrong about that in Forza Horizon anyway because paying for stuff like this (click). You can literally pick any car to unlock from the same pool of cars. Paying for cheats now or not?

In GT sport and GT7 at least other people buying cars means free new cars added to the game throughout the year for me. Ones I can unlock by playing the game without paying.

 

[Dr. Claus]

1. I'm against always online for any single player stuff, period.

2. We've literally known about this for months.

3. Anyone saying they won't buy the game because it's always online never had any intention of getting it in the first place.

Was going to get it at launch, but now I will wait until I can find a used copy (which shouldn’t be hard, you can always find a used copy within 24 hours after a games release).

It is the year 2022. Everybody has internet and practically every electronic device and entertainment service requires internet. Who gives a shit?

Millions upon millions who don’t have consistently fantastic internet connections. People who have data caps. People who constantly have to travel. Plenty more reasons and these are just after spending 0.2 seconds using a couple brain cells.

“B-b-but 15 years from now I might not be able to play it!”

A. by that time there will be a new iteration of GT that does everything better, nobody aside from a few purists are going to want to go back and play it

B. They’ll probably patch it and remove the online check once it’s EOL

C. For fuck’s sake, it’s a $70 entertainment product that I’m going to play and enjoy until I get tired of it and play something else. It’s not some lifelong investment. I’ve spent more money for dinner and a movie.

And here we have the typical retarded reply of an anti consumer shill.

A - People STILL go back to play older games all the time. Just because a new version is out does not make the old one unplayable or give people no reason to play the older title. Each game has its pros and cons. Some people also don’t buy new consoles and instead are “Patient Gamers” and wait until the end of a console generation to pick ups. These are expensive machines and expensive games after all.

B - We have no guarantee that they will “patch it”. They haven’t done it for previous heavily online entries such as Gran Turismo 5 (which we lost a good 20% of the content in THAT game from its servers being shut down). With the more recent games even being more heavily online focused, we stand to lose a lot more.

C - Hey, if you treat games like disposable entertaiment products then good for you. Many don’t. Why are you so desperate to try and push the disposability of modern games? Why do you want to actively support, actively endorse blatant anti consumer practices? Is it because you are a shameless shill who needs to defend their strange, mentally ill love for a company? Or is it because you are a sad little troll on the internet?

 

[Dr. Claus]

You can play all of the single player races offline and to use your own cars in arcade mode you have to select pick cars from garage just before or in car selection.

Is there any reason why they can’t simply have all SP content playable offline? No, there isn’t. The excuse of “…but cheaters!” rings hollow when competitive racing games for decades have been fine with allowing SP content to be offline. The only reason they do this is for the purposes of greed and control. Helps date the product as soon as the next entry is announced/comes out and forces people to buy the “new” title.

Stop defending greedy cunts.

 

[Three]

The only reason they do this is for the purposes of greed and control. Helps date the product as soon as the next entry is announced/comes out and forces people to buy the “new” title.

how would this force people to buy the new title? GT sport already has this. Nothing has happened to it to force me to buy GT7.

 

[Dr. Claus]

how would this force people to buy the new title? GT sport already has this. Nothing has happened to it to force me to buy GT7.

Give it a few months. GT 5 shut down shortly after GT6 launched. GT6 shut down shortly after GT Sport launched.

If you can’t figure out a simple pattern then I can’t help you. Then again, you seem desperate to defend anti consumer decisions. Why is that?

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Was going to get it at launch, but now I will wait until I can find a used copy (which shouldn’t be hard, you can always find a used copy within 24 hours after a games release).


Millions upon millions who don’t have consistently fantastic internet connections. People who have data caps. People who constantly have to travel. Plenty more reasons and these are just after spending 0.2 seconds using a couple brain cells.



And here we have the typical retarded reply of an anti consumer shill.

A - People STILL go back to play older games all the time. Just because a new version is out does not make the old one unplayable or give people no reason to play the older title. Each game has its pros and cons. Some people also don’t buy new consoles and instead are “Patient Gamers” and wait until the end of a console generation to pick ups. These are expensive machines and expensive games after all.

B - We have no guarantee that they will “patch it”. They haven’t done it for previous heavily online entries such as Gran Turismo 5 (which we lost a good 20% of the content in THAT game from its servers being shut down). With the more recent games even being more heavily online focused, we stand to lose a lot more.

C - Hey, if you treat games like disposable entertaiment products then good for you. Many don’t. Why are you so desperate to try and push the disposability of modern games? Why do you want to actively support, actively endorse blatant anti consumer practices? Is it because you are a shameless shill who needs to defend their strange, mentally ill love for a company? Or is it because you are a sad little troll on the internet?

Data caps? How much data do you think you’ll need to do an online check? Man, better stop posting on GAF, think of all those kilobytes!!!

Bottom line, I’m glad they’re protecting against cheaters and I will be able to make progress whether playing multiplayer or single player.

Ability to play without an internet connection has zero value to me. In fact, the entertainment value of seeing people like you have a hysterical fit far outweighs the non-existent value of offline play for me. I consider it a net win.

 

[Lognor]

What does my single player game care about other people cheating?
its just lame. I dont wanna be forced to go online for a single player experience. Multiplayer and online parts of the game of course, but single player stuff, no thanks

Yep. The devs of gt have their heads up their ass. In gts you had to watch an etiquette video before you could play online. And I think you could be banned if you drove too aggressive. They take this shit way too seriously

 

[Three]

Give it a few months. GT 5 shut down shortly after GT6 launched. GT6 shut down shortly after GT Sport launched.

If you can’t figure out a simple pattern then I can’t help you. Then again, you seem desperate to defend anti consumer decisions. Why is that?

So you predict that GT Sport single player will not be accessible in a few months?
I don't think that will happen but let's see.

GT5 and GT6 had their dedicated servers for online multiplayer shut down 4-5 years later and they weren't even GaaS games. Not single player being inaccessible. We'll see if your prediction for GT Sport comes true. I doubt it.

Yep. The devs of gt have their heads up their ass. In gts you had to watch an etiquette video before you could play online. And I think you could be banned if you drove too aggressive. They take this shit way too seriously

No you don't get banned for driving too aggressive but there is a points penalty system which promotes good racing.

 

[SegaShack]

Drive Club?

 

[Dr. Claus]

Data caps? How much data do you think you’ll need to do an online check? Man, better stop posting on GAF, think of all those kilobytes!!!

Bottom line, I’m glad they’re protecting against cheaters and I will be able to make progress whether playing multiplayer or single player.

Ability to play without an internet connection has zero value to me. In fact, the entertainment value of seeing people like you have a hysterical fit far outweighs the non-existent value of offline play for me. I consider it a net win.

Ah yes, can’t enjoy a Single Player experience when you can imagine people CHEATING in THEIR SINGLE PLAYER Experiences.

You are a fucking joke.

So you predict that GT Sport single player will not be accessible in a few months?
I don't think that will happen but let's see.

Never stated that. I stated that GT Sport will go offline, which is the majority of the game’s content and design. It really doesn’t have much of a “single player” to speak of and it was one of the biggest problems with that game.

GT5 and GT6 had their dedicated servers for online multiplayer shut down 4-5 years later and they weren't even GaaS games. Not single player being inaccessible. We'll see if your prediction for GT Sport comes true. I doubt it.

GT5 and GT6 had their dedicated servers for online multiplayer shut down months after the latest entry released. And yes, they weren’t GAAS games, but still had a ton of its content locked to the online connectivity. GT5 alone had lost over 20% of its content. GT6 more so. GT Sport will be even more when those servers inevitably shut down. And when GT8 comes out, we will have essentially lost an entire game’s worth of content with GT7.

Again, why are you defending anti-consumer design? You still haven’t answered that. Why are you actively championing having less options? Less choice in how you can play and enjoy the title you purchased? What logic is there in doing so?

 

[Three]

Ah yes, can’t enjoy a Single Player experience when you can imagine people CHEATING in THEIR SINGLE PLAYER Experiences.

You are a fucking joke.


Never stated that. I stated that GT Sport will go offline, which is the majority of the game’s content and design. It really doesn’t have much of a “single player” to speak of and it was one of the biggest problems with that game.


GT5 and GT6 had their dedicated servers for online multiplayer shut down months after the latest entry released. And yes, they weren’t GAAS games, but still had a ton of its content locked to the online connectivity. GT5 alone had lost over 20% of its content. GT6 more so. GT Sport will be even more when those servers inevitably shut down. And when GT8 comes out, we will have essentially lost an entire game’s worth of content with GT7.

Again, why are you defending anti-consumer design? You still haven’t answered that. Why are you actively championing having less options? Less choice in how you can play and enjoy the title you purchased? What logic is there in doing so?

You said give it a few months. GT sport had single player. I'm not defending anti consumer design. I'm ok with a game having shared online and singleplayer progress and stopping save file hacks if that means your save is in the cloud accessible anywhere. I'm not a fan of the alternative solution where single player and multiplayer progress are separated or cheating is allowed to run rampant online because "so what". Nothing more.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

GT will turn gaas within a year. Release it on PC (with high priced tournaments taking place) and you have a game that is Sonys wet dream. That’s what they bought Bungie for.

 

[Dr. Claus]

You said give it a few months. GT sport had single player. I'm not defending anti consumer design. I'm ok with a game having shared online and singleplayer progress and stopping save file hacks if that means your save is in the cloud accessible anywhere. I'm not a fan of the alternative solution where single player and multiplayer progress are separated or cheating is allowed to run rampant online because "so what". Nothing more.

Yes, I said give it a few months that its online servers would be shut down. Stop moving goalposts and purposefully being disingenuous.

GT Sport doesn’t have much in the way of single player. This has always been a sticking point and one of the prevailing critiques against its entry. It was so bad they had to actively patch in a temporary fix of a minor campaign after many called Polyphony Digital out (Patch 1.10). Even then this campaign was smaller than any previous entry, including the first title in the franchise. It was considered a band aid by many. The majority of the games content and design will be lost when servers are shut down. Google is free to use and I would suggest you do research.

Your save file can be saved in a cloud and accessed without having to force always online connectivity. This has never been a requirement for cloud saves. Cheating will still occur online and this does literally nothing to prevent it. All it does is prevent the choice of users from playing offline when playing alone and ensures the game will be dead and nearly unplayable once servers are offline. If you are the kind of person who is bothered that someone cheats in their SP content, you are a mentally ill person who needs to seek help.

 

[paolo11]

Was going to get it at launch, but now I will wait until I can find a used copy (which shouldn’t be hard, you can always find a used copy within 24 hours after a games release).


Millions upon millions who don’t have consistently fantastic internet connections. People who have data caps. People who constantly have to travel. Plenty more reasons and these are just after spending 0.2 seconds using a couple brain cells.



And here we have the typical retarded reply of an anti consumer shill.

A - People STILL go back to play older games all the time. Just because a new version is out does not make the old one unplayable or give people no reason to play the older title. Each game has its pros and cons. Some people also don’t buy new consoles and instead are “Patient Gamers” and wait until the end of a console generation to pick ups. These are expensive machines and expensive games after all.

B - We have no guarantee that they will “patch it”. They haven’t done it for previous heavily online entries such as Gran Turismo 5 (which we lost a good 20% of the content in THAT game from its servers being shut down). With the more recent games even being more heavily online focused, we stand to lose a lot more.

C - Hey, if you treat games like disposable entertaiment products then good for you. Many don’t. Why are you so desperate to try and push the disposability of modern games? Why do you want to actively support, actively endorse blatant anti consumer practices? Is it because you are a shameless shill who needs to defend their strange, mentally ill love for a company? Or is it because you are a sad little troll on the internet?

Go easy on him lol. It’s Saturday.

I think this post should be stickied

 

[sn0man]

You said give it a few months. GT sport had single player. I'm not defending anti consumer design. I'm ok with a game having shared online and singleplayer progress and stopping save file hacks if that means your save is in the cloud accessible anywhere. I'm not a fan of the alternative solution where single player and multiplayer progress are separated or cheating is allowed to run rampant online because "so what". Nothing more.

We can just disagree here. It’s anti consumer to not allow offline saves as an option.

Those that chose to not have online play because they want the sanctity of an offline save were never gonna play with you so you lose nobody. The online save people would still play with you.

You are advocating against options for consumers that have existed for decades if you continue this stance. Just own it.

 

[Three]

Yes, I said give it a few months that its online servers would be shut down. Stop moving goalposts and purposefully being disingenuous.

GT Sport doesn’t have much in the way of single player. This has always been a sticking point and one of the prevailing critiques against its entry. It was so bad they had to actively patch in a temporary fix of a minor campaign after many called Polyphony Digital out (Patch 1.10). Even then this campaign was smaller than any previous entry, including the first title in the franchise. It was considered a band aid by many. The majority of the games content and design will be lost when servers are shut down. Google is free to use and I would suggest you do research.

Your save file can be saved in a cloud and accessed without having to force always online connectivity. This has never been a requirement for cloud saves. Cheating will still occur online and this does literally nothing to prevent it. All it does is prevent the choice of users from playing offline when playing alone and ensures the game will be dead and nearly unplayable once servers are offline. If you are the kind of person who is bothered that someone cheats in their SP content, you are a mentally ill person who needs to seek help.

I've got GT Sport play it regularly since launch, why would I need to google anything? I play the single player and haven't experienced cheaters online either.

There are ~300 single player races, single player challenges, track time challenges in GT sport It's no GT4 but there is single player.

You said this game design of having single player requiring cloud saves is designed to make people move to the next title. I said GTSport has this and nothing's happened. You said give it a few months. I said we'll see. How have I moved any goal posts exactly?

What you said:

The only reason they do this is for the purposes of greed and control. Helps date the product as soon as the next entry is announced/comes out and forces people to buy the “new” title.

Seems to me you're moving goal posts. So the only reason they do "this" means what here? Tie single player to online saves, correct?

Whatever though, have fun. Nothings going to happen in a few months. Nothing related to cloud saves being designed to move players to the next title anyway.

 

[DrAspirino]

And the game is all the better for it, it's the pinnacle of online racing for consoles. The progression of your player profile is also shared between what you do in SP and MP, its all tied together. So that's why they do it this way and why they keep it all locked down behind their servers.

You seem to forget there is actually a plethora of realistic simulators on consoles, which are far more realistic than GT. In fact, no sim comes even close to Asetto Corsa Competizione.

Gran Turismo series is a very good racing game series, on par with Forza, but you can't call them "pinacle of online racing" or even the pinacle of racing sim in consoles when there are better sims out there.

Oh, and adding insult to the injury, it seems most people here on GAF have an extreme bias when it comes to single-player always-online games: when Sony does it, it's fine and "it's necessary". When anyone else does it, "it's wrong and should be abolished altogether".

Oh, the irony...

 

[Three]

We can just disagree here. It’s anti consumer to not allow offline saves as an option.

Those that chose to not have online play because they want the sanctity of an offline save were never gonna play with you so you lose nobody. The online save people would still play with you.

You are advocating against options for consumers that have existed for decades if you continue this stance. Just own it.

I guess I will advocate for some option hidden away somewhere deep in a menu with a lot of "are you sure?" prompts to separate your save and not access online just as Guilty AI was suggesting.
I just believe in that scenario it's more likely that you would get complaints from genuine GT buyers who will complain about why they can't transfer their bought cars between the offline and online profiles or why they can't play online ever again because they set their profile to offline and grinded single player for years but can't turn back. To me "be online" just seems like a lot less hassle and commitment.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I've got GT Sport play it regularly since launch, why would I need to google anything? I play the single player and haven't experienced cheaters online either.

There are ~300 single player races, single player challenges, track time challenges in GT sport It's no GT4 but there is single player.

You said this game design of having single player requiring cloud saves is designed to make people move to the next title. I said GTSport has this and nothing's happened. You said give it a few months. I said we'll see. How have I moved any goal posts exactly?

What you said:

Seems to me you're moving goal posts. So the only reason they do "this" means what here? Tie single player to online saves, correct?

Whatever though, have fun. Nothings going to happen in a few months. Nothing related to cloud saves being designed to move players to the next title anyway.

Your continued goal post moving, disingenuous replies, strawman arguments, and ignorance on the subject is not lost on the people in this thread. There is no point in having any further discussion as you will continue to rely on the same argumentative fallacies. Have a good day.

 

[Dr. Claus]

You seem to forget there is actually a plethora of realistic simulators on consoles, which are far more realistic than GT. In fact, no sim comes even close to Asetto Corsa Competizione.

Gran Turismo series is a very good racing game series, on par with Forza, but you can't call them "pinacle of online racing" or even the pinacle of racing sim in consoles when there are better sims out there.

Oh, and adding insult to the injury, it seems most people here on GAF have an extreme bias when it comes to single-player always-online games: when Sony does it, it's fine and "it's necessary". When anyone else does it, "it's wrong and should be abolished altogether".

Oh, the irony

“Most people on GAF” despise always online requirements. A few handful fo console warriors and trolls on all sides will defend it. They have always been the minority. Suggesting otherwise makes you look more like one of those warriors.

 

[K2D]

The cynic in me says the only reason for a dev to force an internet connection on a singleplayer game, is to put ingame ads, or to retire/pull the game after a few years.