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Halo Infinite: 343's Statement Runs Against Deep Cuts in Halo Development Team

Makes sense to cut those key to the failure of the first reveal. I'm sure there's lots of people worth keeping to help with the lore and ideas with all the years working on the ip. It ended being a decent rescue job but that's not what you want. MCC was another failure and rescue, that should've been a slam dunk jewel for Halo fans. You couldn't make it up how poorly that was handled by Microsoft/343i.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I don't think that is the case at all. Most of the players have left the game. This is on Steam.
q7zWwo3.jpg


Even on Xbox, the game ranks on #22 on the most played games list, behind games like Red Dead Redemption 2 (which released in 2018) and just above Dead by Daylight.

Considering they also had to gut 343i, it is pretty clear to see that the game didn't meet expectations and was, indeed, a commercial failure.
Top 20 on Xbox Live isnt small numbers man.
And being behind RDR2 which has a very very very loyal RDRO community isnt really a negative.
 

FireFly

Member
you keep focusing only in Infinite. When the issues where before it.

there is even an interview with Ross saying basically that they fuckep up regarding the technology.

and each 343 game (including MCC) had issues/the community was pissed at something.
MCC and Infinite had a huge amount of technical debt, which was partly caused by hiring contractors who would leave and take their knowledge with them + decades of additions to Bungie's engine. The solution to this is not to fire everyone, but to have a core team of permanent programmers working on a stable platform (eg. UE5).
 

Shubh_C63

Member
I am pissed that people were caught off guard that heads weren't gonna roll at some point.

They probably wanted to do this as quietly as possible because it's embarrassing.
 
I agree. I love halo and I love my Xbox. Those halo numbers are dissapointnting but also deserves as the game isn't great.

Bear in mind that the multiplayer part is F2P so it makes those numbers even worse. If MS wanted a GaaS game like Fornite and Apex they should have added a whole lot more collectables and content, with regular map updates and rotations.

People claiming that halo was a huge success is lying to themselves.
I just don't understand the lack of imagination in Halo Infinite. They have this giant ring structure to play with and I wanted nothing more than to blast off into another game. What a sterile, boring nothing world.
I want all responsible for Halo Infinite GONE. I don't want them touching another game, Xbox or otherwise, Don't let them within 20 miles of a Playstation studio, I beg you. Take your Pension and retire. Get away from games.
 
MCC and Infinite had a huge amount of technical debt, which was partly caused by hiring contractors who would leave and take their knowledge with them + decades of additions to Bungie's engine. The solution to this is not to fire everyone, but to have a core team of permanent programmers working on a stable platform (eg. UE5).
that is my point.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
LEts face it 343 had several games and years with Halo and failed, I'm surprised it took this long for them to still be around, it needed to be given to another team before Infinite tbh

Lets face it, by most basic measurements, that's not true at all. Live up to full expectations? No. Failed? Incorrect.
 

NickFire

Member
The narrative that Halo Infinite is a failure is pure and unadulterated bullshit.
I disagree. In my opinion it was one of the biggest failures of all time on a videogame corporate level. I understand they had many years and countless resources, and the game (whose IP is the Flagship of the brand) was intended to ship during current gen's launch. Had they gotten the job done on time and right, MS would have had a real chance to increase market share this gen. But they couldn't get the job done and shipped a year later. And based on what others are extrapolating in the earnings report thread, MS may have somehow lost market share this gen to date. For that to even be debatable means Halo Infinite failed at its primary job IMO.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Top notch management of a once tent pole IP

That's why I've only had faith in Microsoft for a very minor amount of time in the late 2000's. I don't even know why people pick their platform over other's anymore.

I use Gamepass on PC and that's it.

I like their controllers though. I have about 12 different ones for my PC and stuff in the garage.
 
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Havoc2049

Member
I'm glad to see changes taking place. If Halo Infinite is 343 at its best, and it indisputable is, its best isn't good enough. 343 had its chances.

I've said it a thousand times. When Bungie handed over Halo to Microsoft, it was one of the most valuable entertainment properties on earth. 343 indisputably devalued the brand.
Halo 4 was easily 343 at their best. Halo 4 was feature complete at launch and had campaign and multiplayer DLC shortly after launch. Halo 4 also sold 11 million copies. I was a fairly hardcore Halo 4 player back in the day, from release date and up to when the Xbox One launched. Xbox Live and 343 were very transparent with their player numbers back then and while it didn't do Halo 2, 3 and Reach numbers, it was never as low as what we are seeing with Infinite and what quickly happened with Halo 5 as well.
 

Gobjuduck

Banned
I swear, some of you spend more time doomposting halo than actually playing games.

Halo infinite is good, just not great. Move on, unless you can’t because your life is that empty.
 
343 Industries was one of, if not the largest game development team under Microsoft. Even if this report of ~25% of staff being let go is true, they would still remain a large studio with hundreds of full-time employees. When a bloated team delivers a mediocre game after 6+ years of development, the logical thing to do is remove/replace incompetent leadership and cut excess staff to reevaluate and refocus on the core pillars that made Halo the juggernaut IP that it once was. It seems Microsoft is doing exactly that.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Not surprising. They're not going anywhere but they're probably going to revert to franchise coordinator, with other studios brought in to make games.

I just wish they would clear up the future of Infinite DLCs. "Stories" doesn't tell us anything, I don't want the damn game resolved in a comic book again.
 
Makes sense to cut those key to the failure of the first reveal. I'm sure there's lots of people worth keeping to help with the lore and ideas with all the years working on the ip. It ended being a decent rescue job but that's not what you want. MCC was another failure and rescue, that should've been a slam dunk jewel for Halo fans. You couldn't make it up how poorly that was handled by Microsoft/343i.
Everyone thinks of MCC as something that was broken and is now fixed and "great" even but consider this: when Reach was added to the MCC they completely broke the campaign framerate of Halo 1 and 2 on Xbox One X and they never even bothered to fix that. That was almost 2 years ago now.
So for one group of Xbox MCC owners the game USED to run smoothly but is now a broken, stutterfest of a product. It's unplayable on xb1x. That's awful of 343 and Microsoft to just let those people suffer and force them to buy a PC or Series X just to be able to play Halo 1 and 2.
 
Not surprising. They're not going anywhere but they're probably going to revert to franchise coordinator, with other studios brought in to make games.

I just wish they would clear up the future of Infinite DLCs. "Stories" doesn't tell us anything, I don't want the damn game resolved in a comic book again.
The campaign desperately needs more content to fix the areas its so severely lacking in. It needs an expansion with a new biome and it needs more story, npc's, side quests etc. I'm surprised it was received as well as it was with how lacking in content/richness it feels.
 

SafeOrAlone

Banned
An especially crazy ride for them over the last year. They were on the cusp of a massive comeback story, but Infinite gave all it had in the first punch and then basically passed out.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
The campaign desperately needs more content to fix the areas its so severely lacking in. It needs an expansion with a new biome and it needs more story, npc's, side quests etc. I'm surprised it was received as well as it was with how lacking in content/richness it feels.

I still get sad watching the engine reveal trailer, the potential it hinted at was better than anything we saw after

 

CuNi

Member
Master Chief is a bad example because MCC isn't doing that hot either.

4ga9cm6.jpg

Insane to see MCC still has a higher play count on Steam than the actually newest game, which even has a F2P MP.
Damn.

I still get sad watching the engine reveal trailer, the potential it hinted at was better than anything we saw after


The saddest thing to me about that trailer is, how even the landscape looked nice in the trailer and not like the butchered, low poly pillars galore, half world missing map we got in the release.
 
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FireFly

Member
When 343's development of Halo has continually ended in headlines like these after every game they've released, I'd say the concern is warranted and not "trolling".

Arguing that 343 can right the ship on Infinite after a decade of constant screw-ups is the very definition of copium.

PiK0l4h.jpg
So 343 handling the franchise is terribly "concerning". And 343 (according to this thread) not handling the franchise is also terribly "concerning". Is there an outcome that isn't "concerning"?
 
When 343's development of Halo has continually ended in headlines like these after every game they've released, I'd say the concern is warranted and not "trolling".

Arguing that 343 can right the ship on Infinite after a decade of constant screw-ups is the very definition of copium.

PiK0l4h.jpg

Yeah until you actually read the articles behind those quotes and see it’s a big nothing burger. Like the first one, 343 dude was basically saying it’s their first game as a studio and they can do better. Woah, what a trash studio I guess. By the way, Halo 4 is the best Halo imho. And Halo 5 is the worst.

Also no one said they can “right the ship” with Infinite, whatever that means. Infinite already shipped and is already a good game. The only thing they can do now to “right it” is keep working on the MP.

You’re the second clown to quote me saying people at 343 deserve to lose their jobs and that their games have had issues yet still act like I am forgiving everything they have done and denying they made mistakes. What is going on today?
 

small_law

Member
Halo 4 was easily 343 at their best. Halo 4 was feature complete at launch and had campaign and multiplayer DLC shortly after launch. Halo 4 also sold 11 million copies. I was a fairly hardcore Halo 4 player back in the day, from release date and up to when the Xbox One launched. Xbox Live and 343 were very transparent with their player numbers back then and while it didn't do Halo 2, 3 and Reach numbers, it was never as low as what we are seeing with Infinite and what quickly happened with Halo 5 as well.
Sure, Halo 5 was worse in those respects and Halo Infinite's bizarre narrative, repetitive environments, and strange technical limitations were grating. Halo 4, however, ruined Master Chief, made Halo ugly, pushed the sandbox in directions it didn't need to go, and screwed up the narrative of the franchise so much that it needed a soft reboot two games later. Think about that.

Look, I'm not going to get into how everyone gave 343 a pass on Halo 4 because it was 343's first game, or how younger players just getting into video games when Halo 4 was released liked it because they didn't know any better and now have nostalgia for it. But Halo 4's sandbox, narrative, and art direction are all fundamentally flawed.

This is a video game opinion hill I'm willing to die on.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
well it came to steam in 2019 and sold a shitload of copies. what else do you want? obviously it was a success.
You missed the context of the conversation and my comment.

The conversation we were having was that Infinite is currently struggling because of a lack of content, and it'll increase its 24-hour peak and current player count once it releases more content. The other guy used Halo MCC as an example and said that "MCC took 4 years and has now picked the momentum, and the same can happen with Halo Infinite."

That's why I mentioned that MCC is a bad example because its player count and 24-hour peak are not too different from Halo Infinite. Its 24-hour peak is actually lower than Infinite, which is why it's not the right example to use.

I didn't say MCC was a success or a failure. I made no comments on that.
 
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MarkMe2525

Member
??? If people would learn how to use context when reading something, there wouldn't be so much confusion.

There were headlines all over the net that stated "Halo's future uncertain". There were people that then started to claim that the property was in jeopardy. 343's statement was made to address that specific concern.

Like many times before, people on here are misrepresenting 343's words to make it as if they said they would be the sole studio working on Halo projects going forward. They did not say that.

There is no misleading people, there is no controversy, there are only console warriors chomping at the bit to start drama, and being disingenuous while they are doing it.
 

RPS37

Member
Top 20 on Xbox Live isnt small numbers man.
And being behind RDR2 which has a very very very loyal RDRO community isnt really a negative.
I’m having a great time playing infinite multiplayer lately and having zero issues finding matches.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
ITS free-to-play and so called Xbox biggest gameseries, you really dont think that's a problem?
It being in the top 20 and being beaten by power house titles?
Its right behind Madden, Destiny 2, Horizon 5 and Overwatch 2.
Unless you consider those games failures too then I think Halos player count is more than fine.
Sure its not pulling Call of Duty numbers like in the Halo 3 years, but very few games can match COD, Fortnite or Apex Legends numbers.
 

Sweden85

Member
It being in the top 20 and being beaten by power house titles?
Its right behind Madden, Destiny 2, Horizon 5 and Overwatch 2.
Unless you consider those games failures too then I think Halos player count is more than fine.
Sure its not pulling Call of Duty numbers like in the Halo 3 years, but very few games can match COD, Fortnite or Apex Legends numbers.
Well 500 million and it can't beat Roblox and barely edging out Battlefield.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Well 500 million and it can't beat Roblox and barely edging out Battlefield.
Who is still playing Battlefield?
I dont see it on the most played list.

P.S Crack for kids aka Roblox cant be stopped, I wouldnt use NOT being able to beat Roblox as a metric for anything.
 

Varteras

Gold Member
343 deserves what's happening to it. Not necessarily the individuals and it sucks for anyone who honestly tried to make great Halo games. But the studio as a whole just botched release after release of the Xbox crown jewel. Halo deserves better than 343.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Lets face it, by most basic measurements, that's not true at all. Live up to full expectations? No. Failed? Incorrect.
Halo 4 - pissed off fans with multiplayer
Halo MCC - complete disaster for years
Halo 5 - pissed off fans with single player
Infinite - pissed off fans with horrid support, failed content road map, and lack of features.

343 failed in every single way a game dev with top-tier IP can fail. Look, when they took it over, Halo was one of the top franchises in entertainment. Now, it’s what, B-tier at best? It’s not even in the top 20 of most played Xbox games.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
Halo 4 - pissed off fans with multiplayer
Halo MCC - complete disaster for years
Halo 5 - pissed off fans with single player
Infinite - pissed off fans with horrid support, failed content road map, and lack of features.

343 failed in every single way a game dev with top-tier IP can fail. Look, when they took it over, Halo was one of the top franchises in entertainment. Now, it’s what, B-tier at best? It’s not even in the top 20 of most played Xbox games.

Your just highlighting the bad and completely ignoring the good. Halo 4 was fun and popular overall. Halo MCC while flawed evolved into an excellent collection.
The games were well received by the mass public and well reviewed by websites both large and small.

B tier? Do B tier games get played by 20 million people?
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Your just highlighting the bad and completely ignoring the good. Halo 4 was fun and popular overall. Halo MCC while flawed evolved into an excellent collection.
The games were well received by the mass public and well reviewed by websites both large and small.

B tier? Do B tier games get played by 20 million people?

lol I didn’t know there was a “343 was actually good at Halo” island, but I don’t want any property there.

Do you know what standards are? Halo 4 being “fun” is not good enough when you’re coming off 3/Reach/ODST, all some of the best and most popular games of the generation. That game dropped off the charts *fast* once people realized how 343 mucked with the multiplayer anyway. MCC was a disaster for years, the fact that 343 eventually got around to fixing it is not good enough. So on and so on.

They were giving Infinite away. Yea of course a lot of people gave it a try, then they moved on and forgot about it. Even the die-hards realized 343 didn’t know what they were doing as they broke promises and delayed content. That’s the important part.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
lol I didn’t know there was a “343 was actually good at Halo” island, but I don’t want any property there.

Do you know what standards are? Halo 4 being “fun” is not good enough when you’re coming off 3/Reach/ODST, all some of the best and most popular games of the generation. That game dropped off the charts *fast* once people realized how 343 mucked with the multiplayer anyway. MCC was a disaster for years, the fact that 343 eventually got around to fixing it is not good enough. So on and so on.

They were giving Infinite away. Yea of course a lot of people gave it a try, then they moved on and forgot about it. Even the die-hards realized 343 didn’t know what they were doing as they broke promises and delayed content. That’s the important part.

2001 Xbox Halo: Combat Evolved 5.5 million[2]
2004 Xbox Halo 2 8.46 million[3]
2007 Xbox 360 Halo 3 14.5 million[4]
2009 Xbox 360 Halo Wars 2.62 million*
2009 Xbox 360 Halo 3: ODST 6.35 million*
2010 Xbox 360 Halo: Reach 9.87 million*
2011 Xbox 360 Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary 2.43 million*
2012 Xbox 360 Halo 4 9.75 million*
2014 Xbox One, PC Halo: The Master Chief Collection 8.13+ million*
2015 Xbox One Halo 5: Guardians 9.5 million[5]

Yes, halo 4 and 5 did horrible......ok.......LOL
Wait, giving away Infinite? I thought this board decided that gamepass was 100% not free, in fact you are banned for saying a gamepass game is free.
Are 343 perfect? Hell no. Did they deliver on an good to great games - yes, and the proof is in the sales and reviews.
 

yurinka

Member
Yeah if I just spent billions buying up developers I would take the best and put them on my biggest ip. Just makes sense.
Yep. It's always sad to see people fired, but they needed changes in 343. Between ABK and the many studios they did buy before, there are a lot of very talented and experienced devs who worked in many top shooters.

Pretty likely they can get a few guys from here, a few others from there to make a really strong 343 team while also keeping enough talented people in these other teams to work on their games.

I think Halo Infinite make good or understandable changes to go in the right direction but failed hard on delivering their stuff on time and (without being a bad game at all) with the top tier quality that people expects from the flagship IP of a console maker.

I think that putting some folks from Doom, Quake, CoD, Wolfenstein, Dishonored, Overwatch or even Skyrim or Fallout to the mix could help them get that extra they need to become top tier in the market again.
 
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diffusionx

Gold Member
2001 Xbox Halo: Combat Evolved 5.5 million[2]
2004 Xbox Halo 2 8.46 million[3]
2007 Xbox 360 Halo 3 14.5 million[4]
2009 Xbox 360 Halo Wars 2.62 million*
2009 Xbox 360 Halo 3: ODST 6.35 million*
2010 Xbox 360 Halo: Reach 9.87 million*
2011 Xbox 360 Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary 2.43 million*
2012 Xbox 360 Halo 4 9.75 million*
2014 Xbox One, PC Halo: The Master Chief Collection 8.13+ million*
2015 Xbox One Halo 5: Guardians 9.5 million[5]

Yes, halo 4 and 5 did horrible......ok.......LOL
Wait, giving away Infinite? I thought this board decided that gamepass was 100% not free, in fact you are banned for saying a gamepass game is free.
Are 343 perfect? Hell no. Did they deliver on an good to great games - yes, and the proof is in the sales and reviews.

I didn’t say they did horribly, they obviously sold, on the reputation of the series and if you did a poll of Halo fans they would undoubtedly rank at the bottom below the Bungie games. I don’t know if you remember but they were (rightfully imo) criticized left and right after release, Halo 4 for the MP and 5 for the SP. MCC just got destroyed because it didn’t work. And, you know, 343 acknowledged all this after the release of those three titles, did all the “we learned, we’re gonna do better”, then it all coalesced into the Infinite shit sandwich.

The multiplayer portion of Infinite is free.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
I didn’t say they did horribly, they obviously sold, on the reputation of the series and if you did a poll of Halo fans they would undoubtedly rank at the bottom below the Bungie games. I don’t know if you remember but they were (rightfully imo) criticized left and right after release, Halo 4 for the MP and 5 for the SP. MCC just got destroyed because it didn’t work. And, you know, 343 acknowledged all this after the release of those three titles, did all the “we learned, we’re gonna do better”, then it all coalesced into the Infinite shit sandwich.

The multiplayer portion of Infinite is free.

You said they were B tier, which is clearly not true based on any sort of basic measurement. (sales, reviews, fan reviews)
Who cares if they lived up to Bungie. Was there any company who ever would have? Hardcore fans are rabid and difficult to please. Had they radically changed the game, the same people would be up in arms.

If you really thing Infinite is a "shit sandwich" I refer you to the hundreds of personal and professional reviews that suggest you are wrong. It's like I said, you only focus on what is bad.
Here's what people said about infinite, but you will ignore it complete and say everyone hated it......since you are in denial and just want to hate. Probably spout some lame BS like every person and every website is paid off.

Player reviews:
"Honestly this is probably the most complete Halo game I've played in like 10 years. First off the story is good they expanded on the other lesser games but do so in a way that makes for a better story. The combat is extremely fun with the open world, good side quests, innovative boss battles and lots of weapons. They also made the assault rifle fun to use for once! On legendary the challenge is perfect, not too bs like halo 2 but still alot harder than other ones so it's a good challenge. The sound effects bring back a sense of halo CE nostalgia as well. On top of that this is the first game you actually feel like the Master chief. You can sprint, Grapple, fall from wicked heights, and take a beating too.
Overall this has to be my favorite halo game I recommend giving this one a go just for the campaign alone. Multi-player is also a gem."

"Short version: one of my favorite Halo games to date!"

"Everything about this game has reignited my love for halo. The multiplayer addicting and has an amazing Sandbox. While there have been some issues with leveling up the devs made improvements straight away and have continued to fix small issues.
The Campaign is perfect. I wasn’t too sure at first how an open world halo would turn out but it has been done incredibly. The enemy variety is an incredible improvement from previous 343 halo’s. The updated models are also amazing, the banished certainly stand out in their design. The exploration is great, zeta halo is a blast to explore, the various strongholds throughout the map all feel unique and nothing feels like grind. "

IGN (9/10)
"Halo has meant a lot to me over the past 20 years. From first landing on the ring in Halo 1 to the surprise Arbiter arc in Halo 2 to being heartbroken by Halo 5’s abysmal storytelling, it’s one of the few series in gaming where every new mainline entry really matters to me. After six years, it was fair to wonder: did Halo still belong in the “Best Shooter” conversation? And would I still care about it? I am both relieved and delighted that Halo Infinite emphatically answers both questions with a resounding yes. Turning us loose to explore a massive open ring with almost complete freedom to approach combat with a wide range of iconic guns, vehicles, and toys has absolutely brought Halo’s single-player campaign back into contention as one of the finest out there (to say nothing of the amazing multiplayer suite), and even though it drops the ball a bit with the story and lack of environmental variety, Infinite picks it back up again with style."

Gamepsot: (9/10)

The Good​

  • Making Master Chief into a father figure opens up new and intriguing characterization for a two-decade-old character
  • An open world brings the experimentative aspect typically solely associated with Halo's online multiplayer into the campaign
  • The Grappleshot transforms combat for the better, adding a fulfilling sense of speed to movement and new opportunities to tackle old foes
  • Exploration is encouraged by a rewarding progression system, where completing side missions help unlock helpful weapons, vehicles, and equipment upgrades

The Bad​

  • The incredible story occasionally falters with a forgettable antagonist and some rushed character development
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Halo is a B-tier franchise now, yea. If it wasn’t, Bonnie Ross would still have a job. I doin’t care what IGN says about the game, lol. I know what I played.
 
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FireFly

Member
Your just highlighting the bad and completely ignoring the good. Halo 4 was fun and popular overall.
Well, the sandbox in Halo 4 SP was fundamentally broken. So if you get over the broken combat and generic levels filled with bullet sponge enemies I guess you might be able to find some fun somewhere?

Or you know, just play the original Halo games.
 
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