Darkmakaimura
Gold Member
I think we should have a Halo lore thread. Lol.
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Halo Infinite multiplayer creative director Tom French leaves 343 Industries
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Don't be too sure,
the precursors have always been highly mysterious. Even the Primordial is still packed full of mystery. There are even some mysteries still surrounding Ancient Humanity, Master Builder Faber, and so many other small nuggets that have been left here and there. Also, Bornstellar Didact or IsoDidact. 343i is also building up to something big involving Chakas aka 343 Guilty Spark. Lots of mystery out there, and I'm glad they're opening up the universe to more mysteries instead of playing it safe.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I fully agree. So much to cover lol. Man, did you see Greg Bear recently died? Writer of the Forerunner Trilogy. Very sad stuff.
Darkmakaimura
Gold Member
I'm sure one day we'll get a video game based on ancient humanity. That would be a lot of fun and would make everything very different. It would still be in the Halo Universe but in a very, very distant past with different ships and species and all sorts of stuff.
Darkmakaimura
Gold Member
Oh man that sucks. My father passed away exactly two weeks ago from today and it's really taking its toll on me.
Really sad to hear that Greg Bear passed. His expanded universe books were so good.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Banned
Just wanted to say the same I did in HaloGAF.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
this studio is hemmorhaging employees like crazy, it's only a matter of time before 343 sort of just gets... shut down because the only people working there are interns and contracted dudes
if it did though, i cant say id care. they were always xbox's weak link when it comes to studios
if it did though, i cant say id care. they were always xbox's weak link when it comes to studios
Del_X
Member
Now Frankie and the entire cringe team of thinkbois and thinkettes behind the Halo show need to go.
Tom French might have been good - he seemed to have a good sense of what a good mix of MP elements was. I can’t tell if he was held back by the dev tools or was actually “meh” at his job.
Tom French might have been good - he seemed to have a good sense of what a good mix of MP elements was. I can’t tell if he was held back by the dev tools or was actually “meh” at his job.
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bitbydeath
Member
11 seconds of google would have found this.
Codemasters snares Sony’s Evolution Studios and speeds into racing games’ fast lane
Connect with top gaming leaders in Los Angeles at GamesBeat Summit 2023 this May 22-23. Register here. Evolution Studios, the developer behind MotorStorm and DriveClub, has become part of Codemasters just a few weeks after Sony announced plans to shut the racing game development house. United...
venturebeat.com
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Very sorry for the loss of your father. Be strong for the rest of your family and you will always have your memories to remember him by. And yes, Greg Bear's Halo books took the universe to an entirely new level. And, if I'm not mistaken, a whole new trilogy from him was just recently announced a few months ago, was it not? I don't know if I was dreaming about that or something, but something related to him had come up suggesting new work in the Halo Universe. I can't remember, but if I'm right, that means obviously we will never see those released. Man is a legendarily great writer.
Darkmakaimura
Gold Member
I'm out of the loop so I would welcome to hear anything I haven't heard about, lore-wise.
Is there another Halo thread somewhere that would be more appropriate to move this discussion about lore to?
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Ah yes. A studio with over 450 employees is ‘hemorrhaging staff’ and is liable to being shut down because 10 people have left.
Precisely what I’m talking about. This studio attracts some of the craziest hyperbole you can imagine.
Halo under 343, while not being anywhere close to the peak, is still a reliable multi-million unit seller with very good reviews. A ‘weak link’ studio with their last game at 25+ GOTY awards.
If you wouldn’t care if they got shut down, you should really write off the studio and stay out of Halo threads.
Sony shut them down. Codemasters rescued the team and picked them up. There was no ‘sale’ of Evolution Studios between Sony and Codemasters as you earlier claimed.
levyjl1988
Banned
Halo is a dead franchise, it started sucking when Halo 5 was released.
Halo 5 introduced loot boxes, pay-to-win mechanics with the armory, and calling vehicles and artillery, the story sucked so bad and required lore from other mediums as a requirement.
Halo Infinite focused too much on microtransactions and telling players how to play through the poorly thought-out challenge system, restrictive armor customization, no female armor, no elite race, not having all weapons and vehicles from previous Halo games, features from previous Halo games missing.
The TV series was a terrible adaptation.
RIP Halo.
Halo 5 introduced loot boxes, pay-to-win mechanics with the armory, and calling vehicles and artillery, the story sucked so bad and required lore from other mediums as a requirement.
Halo Infinite focused too much on microtransactions and telling players how to play through the poorly thought-out challenge system, restrictive armor customization, no female armor, no elite race, not having all weapons and vehicles from previous Halo games, features from previous Halo games missing.
The TV series was a terrible adaptation.
RIP Halo.
Darkmakaimura
Gold Member
I think that started with the fourth game. Nobody could really understand that story without reading the books.
bitbydeath
Member
They transitioned straight from Sony to Codemasters, and it was reported that they were acquired.
:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/49283891/dirt_rally.0.0.jpg)
DriveClub developer Evolution Studios now part of Codemasters
www.polygon.com
Yes you should have
Codemasters picks up Driveclub developer Evolution Studios
Codemasters has picked up Evolution Studios - and in the process turned the once PlayStation-exclusive developer multip…
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Maybe they will be able to hunker down on some uncreative multiplayer ideas, like just polishing old maps, to bring them into a game with no maps, to absolute fanfare.
The challenge system has been reworked and cross core armour customization is coming. I expect more weapons and vehicles will return when the BR mode arrives.
I love how we’re basically just making up fables now.
I don’t think anyone who isn’t being disingenuous or a platform warrior expects MS to ‘pull the plug’ on one of their biggest AAA studios at a time when they’re looking for AAA content for GP, or when they’re making titles that brings in a significant amount of console MAUs
See what I said about Halo threads on GAF bringing in some truly ludicrous takes?
Oh, and I have no doubt that SSM would be more attractive for many devs than the likes of 343. Much higher Glassdoor reviews. But none of that translates into a ‘struggle’ to recruit into a well remunerated job, working on an AAA franchise.
Mibu no ookami
Member
First, it's absolutely becoming more difficult and more competitive to keep and retain talent.
There's no way that someone is going to want to risk the next Halo on their resume IF they have the opportunity to work somewhere more prestigious.
The absolute amount of turnaround at 343i is indicative of really poor management both at 343 and Microsoft. Sometimes you have to just cut your losses, it's an expensive studio, but that doesn't mean it can't be closed down. Microsoft just had massive layoffs despite being a trillion-dollar company, your bias is blinding you to reality.
levyjl1988
Banned
It doesn't need to be reworked, it needs to be removed altogether or at least make it like Halo Reach. Not at the forefront but in the background, if a player hits a milestone over the course of the game, not through shitty daily and weekly challenges. Whenever I see that shit I see its artificial progression system at work, especially when it's visible and at the forefront, still giving me a presence at the start of a match like some fucking shitty checklist system, oh I have to kill at least 5 enemies. I mean do I REALLY need to see that shit? It's so fucking stupid. I feel like I'm working towards challenges and not enjoying the game that I want to play. This is why Halo Infinite sucks. I don't give a shit about how long 343i will take to fix it because I don't see myself returning to it. They fucking did horrible at launch and there are still other better games out there. Why spend time with a game in which they couldn't get right in the beginning? I mean the initial direction was so fucking flawed it almost emulated the Xbox One disaster. Like who the fuck in their mind had the decision to put a fucking daily and weekly challenge system, who the fuck put spartan customization the way they did initially, who the fuck removed sexy female spartan armor, who the fuck removed the option to play as Elites, who the fuck fucked up the multiplayer, who the fuck added that shitty time-limited rewards system that you cannot get any more, who the fuck decided to add linear battle passes. All these stupid ass fucking decisions fucked up a great formula we had in Halo 3 and Reach days. Now the franchise is shit and I don't want to jump back in. Neither of my friends want to touch Halo anymore. The execs and management did not understand the franchise and just fucked it up. They fucked it up when they had this convoluted plot. I couldn't follow it at all. Why are these characters there? How did Buck become a spartan, I remember him as an ODST. What the fuck did I miss? Jesus the fucking story is incoherent. The franchise is incoherent. How did Masterchief get his armor changed from Halo 3 to Halo 4? Why all of a sudden are Elites speaking only Shangheli in Halo 4 but English translated in Halo 3? WTF is going on? You know what, fuck this series, it's not making sense to me anymore. Fuck Halo. I was a fan who got all the achievements in the glory era, but now not anymore. Fuck this shit. My stats from Halo 3, Reach, and Halo 4 isn't even translated into Halo MCC. Fuck this shit. I'm out. Just thinking about it makes me mad at how 343i fucked up the Halo franchise. Fuck this shit.
Gavon West
Member
Yep. Imagine making a game as controversial as Halo - trying to please veterans and new fans alike. With a legacy like the one with Halo, that must be a very challenging task.
That said, these same people clamoring about the devs on Halo now, will be asking for the same ones back in another five years. Not understanding the damage has all ready been done. Gamers give the worst advice. Always have. Always will.
MiguelItUp
Member
Jesus, they're just shedding layers. What a strange and odd development this has all been.
Naked Lunch
Member
For all of the well documented problems of Infinite's development - and the series' track record under 343 - it was due time for a massive studio shake up - and thats exactly what is happening. People in management are getting fired and it started with the top in Bonnie Ross.
The dude who turned around the Master Chief Collection is the studio lead now and Joe Staten is back to being a major figure. These are all good things in my eyes.
Havoc2049
Member
True. Tom French seems like a cool person and I like some of the things he did with Halo multiplayer. Results matter and the series has been in decline and it's time for a fresh start. As a long time Halo fan, it feels like the series is finally starting to make headway again.
Might as well argue nobody would want to work for Microsoft if they have the opportunity to work for a cooler startup.
Possible, yes, but still MS doesn’t seem to have trouble recruiting.
People want to have big AAA projects on their resume.
…but it’s the management that are leaving. You certainly didn’t think this through, did you?
This forum has been calling for MS to purge the management at the studio. And now, you’re trying to pitch management departures as evidence of ‘mismanagement’ from MS. There’s clearly no satisfying you people.
Yes, but what losses are there to be cut? Halo games are still selling millions of copies and bringing in MAUs on console. Critical reception is great, with their last game landing at an 87% Metacritic.
Why would they close it down, especially when MS is striving manfully to boost their studio count?
And yet none of those layoffs were from people actively making games for xbox.
That’s definitely telling you something, but clearly your bias is blinding YOU to reality.
If a game becomes fun after work is made to improve it, why not come back to it? I mean MCC was a complete clusterfuck at launch and now is a great hub for playing the old Halo titles. We're even getting modding tools for it and there are plans to release cut content like a playable version of the original Halo 2 E3 demo.
Halo Infinite is probably on a similar trajectory where we are 2+ years out from getting a polished content-complete product. The core large scale multiplayer mode isn't out yet, neither is the progression system or any real social features. 343 themselves have said they are aiming to "complete" the core product by the end of next year. It's the result of horrendous management and a whole bunch of mistakes on the technical side, but again, that's what happened with MCC.
As far the challenge system goes, I don't bother to check the challenges any more because they are general enough to be earned through regular play.
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Has there ever been a series in gaming that’s nitpicked to such extremes as Halo?
These are such small details that have no impact on anything substantial, but yet it’s the end of the world, apparently. I mean, down to the language the Elites speak?
DeaDPo0L84
Member
Amazing how all these 343 employees suddenly had family medical emergencies they needed to take time off for...
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall, or was he pushed?…
clarky
Member
All one of them?
Ironically, doing this would be truly staggering mismanagement.
Give your tentpole franchise to a studio that’s unfamiliar with the codebase and hasn’t ever worked on the series before. Tying them down for at least 5 years. Especially a studio that - while they’ve had great campaigns - hasnt put out any stellar MP in a long time.
Not to mention the opportunity cost. That’s years not spent making Doom or Quake or any other solid Id style shooter.
Nah
Mibu no ookami
Member
Might as well argue nobody would want to work for Microsoft if they have the opportunity to work for a cooler startup.
Possible, yes, but still MS doesn’t seem to have trouble recruiting.
People want to have big AAA projects on their resume.
…but it’s the management that are leaving. You certainly didn’t think this through, did you?
This forum has been calling for MS to purge the management at the studio. And now, you’re trying to pitch management departures as evidence of ‘mismanagement’ from MS. There’s clearly no satisfying you people.
Yes, but what losses are there to be cut? Halo games are still selling millions of copies and bringing in MAUs on console. Critical reception is great, with their last game landing at an 87% Metacritic.
Why would they close it down, especially when MS is striving manfully to boost their studio count?
And yet none of those layoffs were from people actively making games for xbox.
That’s definitely telling you something, but clearly your bias is blinding YOU to reality.
That's a straw man if I've ever heard one. Working for Microsoft vs working for 343i is not the same thing. There are plenty of other studios here, but in general, I think they have struggled to recruit top talent, which is why their games have not reached higher levels and why they've struggled to create and augment franchises for the last 20 years.
The forum has also called for 343i to be shuttered or removed from Halo, so another straw man.
It hasn't just been upper management leaving. Their head count is down 3% in the last 6 months on linkedin meaning that there is either a hiring freeze or a retention/recruiting issue. Compare that to Naughty Dog who is up 9 percent or Insomniac that is up 5%. When you're down 3% already you probably don't need layoffs. Looks like natural attrition is taking over. The question is will they eventually backfill these roles or will they make the decision to shutter them or repurpose them. Will be interesting to see whether they get the next Halo game or not.
Why did Square Enix sell it's AAA western studios?
If Halo and 343i are doing so well, why is upper management being pushed out?
LordOfChaos
Member
Fuuuck. The Forerunner trilogy of books are some of my favorite game lore full stop.
p.s we had one
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The chances of them being shut down or Halo being reassigned to another studio is vanishingly remote.
This probability only seems to exist as a fantasy to some online commentators. No basis in reality.
Because they were losing money and their games weren’t selling well?
Obviously because there are consequences to the Halo Infinite development struggles that cost MS no small amount of cash and reputation.
Not to mention that upper management issues were highlighted as a key problem at 343 in Glassdoor reviews.
Mibu no ookami
Member
We'll see. More surprising things have happened in the game industry.
Were they losing money? Can I get a fact check on that? And their games probably sold as well as Halo is here...
Wait I thought Halo Infinite was perfect, now I'm hearing it is struggling? Was the game profitable or not? Did it cost them cash and reputation or was it profitable and great? You can't separate this and pin it just on management. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.
This is great news! Though I’d rather have more maps…
Chukhopops
Member
Pokémon?
Halo is Halo and Doom is Doom. Infinite can be criticized but it plays and feels like Halo; the worst thing that could happen is for the series to lose its uniqueness.
Completely Off-topic, but I just gotta say that is just so fucking ironic, isn’t it? They basically created deathmatch with Doom and perfected it with the Quake series (including Quake’s “jump-in, jump-out” internet servers), but the new Doom games’ mp is nothing to write home about. I haven’t tried Quake Champions, but I’ve heard it is no Quake 3, by a long shot. Oh well.
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
DriveClub VR.
"Halo Infinite development struggles" =/= "Halo Infinite is struggling". The former clearly refers to the delay and mid-development soft reboot, things that have been blamed on mismanagement.
I cannot be held responsible for your comprehension issues.
Typing that up was so weird for me. Id are the OGs of MP FPS, but pretty much everyone panned Doom 2016's MP and they wisely de-emphasized that bit post release and with Doom Eternal.
Mibu no ookami
Member
See and now you're coming to conclusions without context.
Why was the game delayed? Why was there a mid-development soft reboot? Are these all problems with management? Can management magically make everything work out regardless of circumstances?
gothmog
Gold Member
I would argue that the codebase is part of the problem here. A set of fresh eyes might allow the new team to make some serious decisions about using a modern engine.
Not saying that Id should be taking over for it but getting an experienced FPS team to help give some guidance would probably help.
TheShocker
Member
Eh, probably for the best. I have little faith in just about everyone behind 343i at the moment. Infinite was personally my biggest gaming disappointment ever.
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