• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Has Sony shared any sales data from Demon's Souls (PS5, 2020)?

Marty-McFly

Banned
What numbers do you think Sony was expecting?
2 million at this point would be healthy for a flagship launch title based on the now popular as fuck Souls franchise. Bloodborne sold over a million in a month and the Souls franchise was even less popular then, and Bloodborne didn't even have the "Souls" name. Granted it was a couple years into the PS4's life, but being a launch title is actually significantly beneficial to a games sales and Demon's Souls should have been the de facto game to purchase with a PS5. We've seen a lot of killer app launch titles with other consoles do much better tbh.

Those claiming Souls is still a niche franchise and Sony had modest expectations for Demon's.

 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
2 million at this point would be healthy for a flagship launch title based on the now popular as fuck Souls franchise. Bloodborne sold over a million in a month and the Souls franchise was even less popular then. Granted it was a couple years into the PS4's life, but being a launch title is actually significantly beneficial to a games sales and Demon's Souls should have been the de facto game to purchase with a PS5.

So Demon Souls should have outsold Bloodborne despite the fact Blooodborne had an PS4 install base 3 times as large as PS5?

Accept Season 4 GIF by Billions
jennifer lawrence ok GIF
 

Marty-McFly

Banned
You really do not understand the significance of install base, huh? Either that or you are being willfully ignorant. Which is it?
You didn't even know how much Bloodborne sold, you just came in here trying to defend Demon's without even bothering to check.

Numerous launch games have sold millions in their first year. Your argument is weak at best.
 

Topher

Gold Member
You didn't even know how much Bloodborne sold, you just came in here trying to defend Demon's without even bothering to check.

Numerous launch games have sold millions in their first year. Your argument is weak at best.

lol.....Bloodborne's sales numbers are in its wikipedia article. That is not data that is hard to come by so you can stop pretending. Has Soulsborne ever been a launch title until now? No. Why compare Souls games against non-Souls games? Or better yet. Let's do that. So you tell me. Why did Call of Duty Black Ops outsell the entire Dark Souls franchise? Why did Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag outsell Dark Souls 3 by millions? How about Spider-Man? God of War? Dark Souls 3 was on multiple platforms while those games were on one. Spider-Man sold more in three days than Dark Souls 3 did in a month. See? I can come up with all kind of comparisons just like you are doing. So you can continue making false equivalencies or you can look at this with proper perspective. Up to you.
 
Last edited:

Marty-McFly

Banned
lol.....Bloodborne's sales numbers are in its wikipedia article. That is not data that is hard to come by so you can stop pretending. Has Soulsborne ever been a launch title until now? No. Why compare Souls games against non-Souls games? Or better yet. Let's do that. So you tell me. Why did Call of Duty Black Ops outsell the entire Dark Souls franchise? Why did Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag outsell Dark Souls 3 by millions? How about Spider-Man? God of War? Dark Souls 3 was on multiple platforms while those games were on one. Spider-Man sold more in three days than Dark Souls 3 did in a month. See? I can up all kind of comparisons just like you are doing. So you can continue making false equivalencies or you can look at this with proper perspective. Up to you.
Okay, so then you should have read the wikipedia article before you said I claimed that Demon's would "outsell" Bloodborne if it sold 2 million in 9 months, when in fact Bloodborne did 2 million in less time.

Regardless, your examples and arguments are all weak so there's not much to say.

There are new IP's that sold millions in their first years on the market launching exclusively with new consoles (that didn't sell nearly as well as PS5 has), much less a game from a world famous franchise.

End of discussion really.
 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
Okay, so then you should have read the wikipedia article before you said I claimed that Demon's would "outsell" Bloodborne if it sold 2 million in 9 months, when in fact Bloodborne did 2 million in less time.

Regardless, your examples and arguments are all weak so there's not much to say.

There are new IP's that sold millions in their first years on the market launching with new consoles (that didn't sell nearly as well as PS5 has), much less a game from a world famous franchise.

End of discussion really.

"So Demon Souls should have outsold Bloodborne despite the fact Blooodborne had an PS4 install base 3 times as large as PS5?"

I was asking you a question about install base. That "weak argument" that you have dodged time and time again.
 

Marty-McFly

Banned
"So Demon Souls should have outsold Bloodborne despite the fact Blooodborne had an PS4 install base 3 times as large as PS5?"

I was asking you a question about install base. That "weak argument" that you have dodged time and time again.
I've addressed your comment about install base several times. You are just keeping your head in the sand on this one.

Let me say it again,

there were numerous new platforms with lower install bases than PS5 with flagship launch IP's that sold millions in the same amount of time Demon's Souls has been on the market, or even less. In some cases these were even new ip's.

All signs point to Demon's Souls just not doing that great.

I’m going to love the announcement of Demon’s Souls 2 as a partnership between bluepoint and from software in 2024.
That sounds like fanfiction to me, but if they delivered an awesome game and improved on the formula I'd be all for it.
 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
I've addressed your comment about install base several times. You are just keeping your head in the sand on this one.

Let me say it again,

there are numerous platforms with lower install bases than PS5 with flagship launch IP's that sold millions in the same amount of time Demon's Souls has been on the market, or even less. In some cases these were even new ip's.

All signs point to Demon's Souls just not doing that great.

I asked about the install base of Demon Souls vs Bloodborne at their respective launches and you know it. Yet again you are trying to divert away from the point being made. Not just install base, but you are pretending the Soulsborne genre has equitable popularity with other franchises. I pointed out several examples that prove that is blatantly false. Yet another point you ignored. You are dependent entirely on false equivalences to create your narrative.
 
Last edited:

Marty-McFly

Banned
I asked about the install base of Demon Souls vs Bloodborne at their respective launches and you know it. Yet again you are trying to divert away from the point being made. Not just install base, but you are pretending the Soulsborne genre has equitable popularity with other franchises. I pointed out several examples that prove that is blatantly false. Yet another point you ignored. You are dependent entirely on false equivalences to create your narrative.
Your question is irrelevant.

Bloodborne is way, way ahead of where Demon's looks to be at, not to mention "a larger install base" has not prohibited many games from realising incredible success in their launch years.

The premise that flagship launch games on new consoles with low install bases don't sell, or even sell less is flawed for several reasons.

1) When consoles launch, people need a new game to play with it. They are highly likely to buy the console with a piece of software to accompany it. Without much competition, first party flagship launch titles tend to flourish.

2) Souls is much more popular now than it was in 2015 when Bloodborne launched.

3) Bloodborne wasn't even a true Souls game by name recognition, while Demon's was. The Souls name in itself should carry significant weight and have bolstered sales.

4) PS5 is the fastest selling console ever, if Demon's sales were remotely healthy, the benefit's it could have gotten from being a launch IP could have been exponential.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Your question is irrelevant.

Bloodborne is way, way ahead of where Demon's looks to be at, not to mention "a larger install base" has not prohibited many games from realising incredible success in their launch years.

The premise that flagship launch games on new consoles with low install bases don't sell, or even sell less is flawed for several reasons.

1) When consoles launch, people need a new game to play with it. They are highly likely to buy the console with a piece of software to accompany it. Without much competition, first party flagship launch titles tend to flourish.

2) Souls is much more popular now than it was in 2015 when Bloodborne launched.

3) Bloodborne wasn't even a true Souls game by name recognition, while Demon's was. The Souls name in itself should carry significant weight and have bolstered sales.

4) PS5 is the fastest selling console ever, if Demon's sales were remotely healthy, the benefit's it could have gotten from being a launch IP could have been exponential.

Larger install bases help a game's success. It does not prohibit it. You cannot compare this game's sales to Bloodborne (or other Souls games) without taking install base into account. It is a key metric.

1) Somehow Demon Souls wasn't competing with Assassin's Creed, Watch Dogs, and Spider-Man? All three of those franchises are much more popular than Soulsborne. So "without much competition" is a false statement.
2) Probably, but it is currently tied to a system that is hard to find.
3) Souls fans are From Software fans. That is how the term Soulsborne was coined.
4) Doesn't mean much when people are buying PS5 primarily for other games. Souls fans are going to keep buying Demon Souls as the system becomes more widely available.

Interesting quote from Destructoid about sales of the original Demon Souls game 12 years ago.

Games like Demon’s Souls aren’t supposed to sell well. A super hardcore, obscure RPG published by Atlus? Yeah, those games don’t sell well. Except the game actually is selling well, at least by its own standards. With a little over 150,000 copies shifted in October, Demon’s Souls actually made it to number eleven in the US cross-platform sales chart

https://www.destructoid.com/demons-souls-sales-are-impressive/
 
Last edited:

Marty-McFly

Banned
Larger install bases help a game's success. It does not prohibit it. You cannot compare this game to Bloodborne (or other Souls games) without taking install base into account.

1) Somehow Demon Souls wasn't competing with Assassin's Creed, Watch Dogs, and Spider-Man? All three of those franchises are much more popular than Soulsborne. So "without much competition" is a false statement.
2) Probably, but it is currently tied to a system that is hard to find.
3) Souls fans are From Software fans. That is how the term Soulsborne was coined.
4) Doesn't mean much when people are buying PS5 primarily for other games. Souls fans are going to keep buying Demon Souls as the system becomes more widely available.

Interesting quote from Destructoid about sales of the original Demon Souls game 12 years ago.



https://www.destructoid.com/demons-souls-sales-are-impressive/
1) Popular franchises become even more abundant later into a consoles lifecycle. Hence, Bloodborne had much more competition when it launched. My point was launch IP's do better because there is much less competition.
2)Hard to find console or not, there are 10 million PS5's on the market, and the Demon's Soul's game is certainly not hard to find.
3)That doesn't change the fact that Souls franchise still carries more weight than new From IP's on name alone.
4)We'll see where the sales end up, but games that start slow in sales usually don't see good legs afterwards.

Not sure why you brought the Destructoid article up from 13 years ago, is this supposed to prove that Demon's 2020 shouldn't sell well? Demon's Souls was literally the game that started the entire revolution of Souls inspired games, an entire sub genre. If anything, this should make the remake years later sell exponentially better.
 

Topher

Gold Member
1) Popular franchises become even more abundant later into a consoles lifecycle. Hence, Bloodborne had much more competition when it launched. My point was launch IP's do better because there is much less competition.
2)Hard to find console or not, there are 10 million PS5's on the market, and the Demon's Soul's game is certainly not hard to find.
3)That doesn't change the fact that Souls franchise still carries more weight than new From IP's on name alone.
4)We'll see where the sales end up, but games that start slow in sales usually don't see good legs afterwards.

Not sure why you brought the Destructoid article up from 13 years ago, is this supposed to prove that Demon's 2020 shouldn't sell well? Demon's Souls was literally the game that started the entire revolution of Souls inspired games, an entire sub genre. If anything, this should make the remake years later sell exponentially better.

1) Just not true. Bloodborne did not launch alongside games the caliber of AC: V, Watch Dogs Legion and Spider-Man. The most notable game at the time was MLB 15 The Show and no one would argue those two games were competing with each other.
2) And when we have actual sales numbers we can compare ratios. Right now, it is all speculation.
3) That isn't a fact at all. Nothing more than a supposition. This is a fact: Darks Souls 2 released the year before Bloodborne and sold 2.5 million in a year versus Bloodborne's 2 million in 7 months. Dark Souls 2 released on multiple platforms so Bloodborne actually outperformed its "Souls" counterpart when taking install base into account.
4) Agree with "we'll see where the sales end up".

The primary purpose of the Destructiod article was that even 12 years ago it was understood that games like Demon Soul's could not be compared with mainstream games. It has to be compared "by its own standards".
 
Last edited:

MrFunSocks

Banned
It fucking started the whole of Souls-like genre. There are dozens of games that followed some of its design. Fucking Star Wars: Fallen Order is a Souls-like. Event the combat of God of War is Souls-like. YOU ARE BLIND. and I’m not even talking about the blatant rip offs like Nioh, Mortal Shell…



Keep the blindness and go away.
Those are a stretch lol. “Generally influenced by” lol. What about fallen order is directly influenced by demons souls?
 

Topher

Gold Member
Those are a stretch lol. “Generally influenced by” lol. What about fallen order is directly influenced by demons souls?

Some more than others, but yes, Souls games are a RPG sub-genre that was born out of Demon Souls. Google "souls like games" and you'll get an endless number of articles talking about games that were derived from the Souls and Bloodborne games. Demon Souls was the granddaddy of them all.
 
Last edited:
Hardcore fans got the press hooked in with Dark Souls and that brought in a lot of curious people game to game, which is why that brand was successful outside the core players despite ending on declining sales. Bloodborne was mass marketed by Sony and had a similar effect.

Demon Souls didn't have that going for it with the original release, and outside the developer name on the cover still doesn't have that going for it with the remake. It's not riding off Dark Souls thirst like Bloodborne was either.

Being an early PS5 release and having some connection to Dark Souls will make it sell more than Returnal (500k), maybe double, but not much more imo.
 
Last edited:

Marty-McFly

Banned
Hardcore fans got the press hooked in with Dark Souls and that brought in a lot of curious people game to game, which is why that brand was successful outside the core players despite ending on declining sales. Bloodborne was mass marketed by Sony and had a similar effect.

Demon Souls didn't have that going for it with the original release, and outside the developer name on the cover still doesn't have that going for it with the remake. It's not riding off Dark Souls thirst like Bloodborne was either.

Being an early PS5 release and having some connection to Dark Souls will make it sell more than Returnal, maybe double, but not much more imo.
There are clearly reasons the game did not light the world on fire I agree, but Sony certainly didn't aim for anything but a hit when they developed it, that much is obvious to anyone who is logical and has seen behind the scenes footage of this games development, and has seen the success of Souls games. It bears more in style and namesake with Dark Souls than Bloodborne ever did.

Live Orchestra's, next gen graphics and Mocap are very expensive.
 
Last edited:

MrFunSocks

Banned
Some more than others, but yes, Souls games are a RPG sub-genre that was born out of Demon Souls. Google "souls like games" and you'll get an endless number of articles talking about games that were derived from the Souls and Bloodborne games. Demon Souls was the granddaddy of them all.
I know the term "souls-like" exists, I just think it's vastly over stated as an actual influence on games. Like can you actually tell me the influence that it has had on the entire industry? Some games having some elements that Souls games also had doesn't mean they're derived from Souls. Look at this article for example:

The Best Soulslike Games - IGN

Now, defining exactly what constitutes a souls-like game is a bit tricky, because there’s a lot of core elements of Souls games, but for the purpose of this video, here are the key things that a game must have to be a soulslike:

  • Punishing consequences for death
  • Souls, or a similar currency gained by defeating enemies that is integral to character progression and can be lost upon death.
  • Methodical combat, typically tied to a stamina meter
  • Checkpoints that reset the world.
None of that is exclusive to or pioneered by Demons Souls. Diablo meets all of those criteria and it released in the 90s.

Answer me this - what did Demons Souls pioneer that has changed the industry? When you are looking for things that you can are influenced by some other game it's not hard to make connections that are tenuous at best to try and make a game you like seem more influential than it actually was. I mean someone mentiond God of War............God of War started on the PS2 lol. It had its difficulty and "methodical" combat long before Demons Souls. It had character progression tied to a currency gained by defeating enemies.
 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
I know the term "souls-like" exists, I just think it's vastly over stated as an actual influence on games. Like can you actually tell me the influence that it has had on the entire industry? Some games having some elements that Souls games also had doesn't mean they're derived from Souls. Look at this article for example:

The Best Soulslike Games - IGN


None of that is exclusive to or pioneered by Demons Souls. Diablo meets all of those criteria and it released in the 90s.

Answer me this - what did Demons Souls pioneer that has changed the industry? When you are looking for things that you can are influenced by some other game it's not hard to make connections that are tenuous at best to try and make a game you like seem more influential than it actually was.

How does Diablo meet all that criteria? There was no stamina meter. You could save the game at any time. Diablo had levels of difficulty. There were no checkpoints that reset the world.
 
Some more than others, but yes, Souls games are a RPG sub-genre that was born out of Demon Souls. Google "souls like games" and you'll get an endless number of articles talking about games that were derived from the Souls and Bloodborne games. Demon Souls was the granddaddy of them all.
Nightmare creatures and various other games have used similar formulas and gameplay as the Souls series.
 

tommib

Member
Nightmare creatures and various other games have used similar formulas and gameplay as the Souls series.

Nightmare creatures had asynchronous multiplayer where you end up being the level boss to another player’? I swear this thread is being invaded by the dumbest trolls. I’m out of Gaf for a bit. Losing braincells by the minute.

Speaking of invasions, could you also invade another player’s level on this nightmare creatures of yours? Everyone failing to see the revolution Demon’s Souls was back in 2009 should be cursed and get their life bar halved by a giant frog.
 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
Nightmare creatures had asynchronous multiplayer where you end up being the boss level to another player’? I swear this thread is being invaded by the dumbest trolls. I’m out of Gaf for a bit. Losing braincells by the minute.

I'm inclined to agree. The arguments here are getting absurd. This bitch is going on ignore for me.
 
No expenses were spared. This was a mega budget in all facets and an AAA production all around.



It's not the same thing as having to make a new game from scratch is my point, all of the baseline work was done so that cuts a ton of money and time. If they were making a new game from scratch it would have cost a lot more. I'm not saying they went cheap I'm saying didn't cost as much as making an entirely new game from the ground up.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
I think the game has probably done pretty well, sales wise, maybe even great, on the basis that of the gamers I've know for decades since school - that all got launch PS5 consoles - at least half of us bought the game new, So if world wide the estimate of PS5's sold at launch - delivered by 1st Jan 2021 - was around the 3-4 million mark, even with an attachment rate much lower than 50% for those consoles, would still suggest it sold 1Million copies before the year end, and will have likely continued selling to at least 1 in 10 of the remaining 6.5million PS5's sold to date.

Looking at how much talk and excitement there was for the game and console, here on NeoGaf, before launch and the higher proportion of NeoGaf-esq gamers that will have snapped up the console in such short supply, I wouldn't be surprised if it has managed 20 or 25% attachment rate to be above 2Million - which considering the £70 price and the stiff competition at launch from Miles Morales and cheaper cross-gen games, would be some feat, compared to previous souls games selling at around half that price point IIRC.
 
Last edited:

MrFunSocks

Banned
How does Diablo meet all that criteria? There was no stamina meter. You could save the game at any time. Diablo had levels of difficulty. There were no checkpoints that reset the world.
Diablo had Mana which acted in the same way as a stamina meter. I wouldn't call when and how you can save a game as being something that Demons Souls brought to gaming. Many games have re-spawning enemies etc too. Again, not something that Demons Souls brought to the world.

I'll ask again - what completely new never seen before influential features did Demons Souls bring to gaming?
 

Marty-McFly

Banned
It's not the same thing as having to make a new game from scratch is my point, all of the baseline work was done so that cuts a ton of money and time. If they were making a new game from scratch it would have cost a lot more. I'm not saying they went cheap I'm saying didn't cost as much as making an entirely new game from the ground up.
Strong disagree. Art design/assets/programming/animation/phyics/mocap and music (especially if orchestrated) are by far the most costly aspects of game development. This is AAA all around. Demon's Souls prior existence likely shaved off very little in terms of this games overall budget. It was completely overhauled.
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
Diablo had Mana which acted in the same way as a stamina meter. I wouldn't call when and how you can save a game as being something that Demons Souls brought to gaming. Many games have re-spawning enemies etc too. Again, not something that Demons Souls brought to the world.

I'll ask again - what completely new never seen before influential features did Demons Souls bring to gaming?
Cool bosses.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Diablo had Mana which acted in the same way as a stamina meter. I wouldn't call when and how you can save a game as being something that Demons Souls brought to gaming. Many games have re-spawning enemies etc too. Again, not something that Demons Souls brought to the world.

I'll ask again - what completely new never seen before influential features did Demons Souls bring to gaming?

it's not about respawning enemies. it's about HOW these things work. how enemies respawn.
the Souls series invented a gameplay loop that is unique and basically birthed a new subgenre.

-the game autosaves all the time, which means every action you take is important and can't be reversed, which has sometimes big consequences (killing an NPC and the resulting affect it has for example)

-every enemy is a risk. many/most games have "canon fodder" enemies that are only there so you can feel good about mowing them down. not so in Souls games. almost every enemy can kill you within a few attacks if you make any mistakes. you think it's just some weak guy with a broken sword, but suddenly he does some combo attack that breaks through your stamina and kills you.

-dying has often dramatic consequences. you lose part of your health bar, or you lose all your currency, or you have to go through a big part of the current level/area again. this is also used as a very clever way of implementing dying into the lore and gameplay in the Souls games. should you rest/teleport away every enemy will be back... so every part of the game makes you think about risk... do you risk exploring with half HP and no health items? or do you go to safety and restore your health and items but make every enemy respawn again?
these things are arguably the part of Dark Souls/Demon's Souls that define the subgenre it created.

so while no individual element is a new game mechanic, it is the combination and way they are implemented that make Souls games unique.
 
Last edited:

Marty-McFly

Banned
The primary purpose of the Destructiod article was that even 12 years ago it was understood that games like Demon Soul's could not be compared with mainstream games. It has to be compared "by its own standards".
Just want to comment on your last point as I don't have time to rebut each point right now.

Demon Soul's 12 year ago was incredibly niche. Today Souls is so mainstream that souls-likes are one of the most prevailing sub genres in gaming. The games and those it has influenced have sold tens of millions of copies.

The greater point here is that saying Sony didn't plan for high levels of success here is a complete cop-out. The limited sales data we have paints a disappointing picture, especially when considering Sony failed to follow up with any more press and this was the only notable game absent from their financial report. Not to mention the studio who was the brains behind the project (Japan Studio, Blue Point merely did the development labour) closed down as Sony studio's tend to when projects under perform.

I believe the game under performed severely, and that is my belief based on all of the sales data we have and have not received.

Until Sony shows something to prove otherwise (which I don't expect they will because they can't change reality), my view will remain the same. You're obviously entitled to your viewpoints as well.
 
Last edited:

NewYork214

Member
Gotta say as a ps5 owner. Just not my type of game so didn't buy. Got it from gamefly. And sent back after 2 days. It's just the the of game that isn't for everyone.

Same goes for returnal. I did buy that one tho. But if I had gamefly at the time. I most likely wouldn't have. 70 dollar price point makes me not want to risk the purchase as much.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
it's not about respawning enemies. it's about HOW these things work. how enemies respawn.
the Souls series invented a gameplay loop that is unique and basically birthed a new subgenre.

-the game autosaves all the time, which means every action you take is important and can't be reversed, which has sometimes big consequences (killing an NPC and the resulting affect it has for example)

-every enemy is a risk. many/most games have "canon fodder" enemies that are only there so you can feel good about mowing them down. not so in Souls games. almost every enemy can kill you within a few attacks if you make any mistakes. you think it's just some weak guy with a broken sword, but suddenly he does some combo attack that breaks through your stamina and kills you.

-dying has often dramatic consequences. you lose part of your health bar, or you lose all your currency, or you have to go through a big part of the current level/area again. this is also used as a very clever way of implementing dying into the lore and gameplay in the Souls games. should you rest/teleport away every enemy will be back... so every part of the game makes you think about risk... do you risk exploring with half HP and no health items? or do you go to safety and restore your health and items but make every enemy respawn again?
these things are arguably the part of Dark Souls/Demon's Souls that define the subgenre it created.

so while no individual element is a new game mechanic, it is the combination and way they are implemented that make Souls games unique.
Diablo 2 does all of that though, released in 2000.

What unique gameplay loop did Souls invent? I'm beginning to think people that think Souls games are unique and invented all this stuff only started playing games with Souls games.
 

RainblowDash462

Gold Member
I imagine it sold well due to being a launch title as well as what the hard core gaming community wanted.

The only issue is trying to get a PS5.
 
Strong disagree. Art design/assets/programming/animation/phyics/mocap and music (especially if orchestrated) are by far the most costly aspects of game development. This is AAA all around. Demon's Souls prior existence likely shaved off very little in terms of this games overall budget. It was completely overhauled.
Well you are entitled to your opinion but actually coming up with the designs, the story the music (re-recording isn't the same thing as creating the music from scratch) The graphics in the game are incredible they did a great job with the visuals and the re-recorded soundtrack but they didn't have to actually come up with the base for any of this, the truly creative stuff was already done for them. It's a lot cheaper to paint a house than to build one from scratch.
 

Rikkori

Member
If it actually did very well they'd be shouting it from the rooftops, let's be real. The bulk of the sales will come from the PC port, that's expected.
 

EDMIX

Member
You see zero evidence that Sony was a looking for those type of of numbers? That's a fairly ridiculous statement.

Yet you still don't offer up evidence that is the numbers they are seeking though, shit its your fucking thread and your argument, you put up the evidence to support your thread man, you can't just keep on with "fairly ridiculous" and then offer zero examples, evidence, statements, qoutes to actually support any of this.

Sony is not going make a Soulsborne game their flagship launch title without some pretty lofty ambitions.

Yet Sony is also known to launch without massive heavy hitters cause they also know less systems exist to move units of that software..... its why PS4 didn't launch with Uncharted, but launched with Killzone, a solid series, but not a game known for moving massive numbers. Simply a title to showcase the hardware. In fact, MOST 1st parties do this, even Nintendo launched Switch with a port from Wii U vs a native ground up ONLY Switch title. So I'm sorry man, but I don't see much here that argues just cause its the PS5 launch, that Sony was expecting those numbers, in fact most argues that they wouldn't because it just fucking launched, why would they expect numbers that they got fucking YEARS into PS4's cycle vs day 1?

You could launch The Last Of Us 2 or Uncharted 4 on PS5 and that shit is not moving the units you saw from PS4 in the same 6 month or 1 year time frame or anything like that, not cause they are bad games, but the install base is smaller, over time those games will get older and more poeple buying the system will simply wish to buy the game second hand, on sale etc vs day 1 brand new, as in you need an established base of units to seek those numbers in teh first place, launch is to show off hardware to get people to BUY HARDWARE, its not the place to go ham on software and I'd argue MOST 3rd parties do the very same thing.

What major 3rd party launched with a NEXT GEN ONLY title when PS5 and Series X came out? Do you now see why that is a rare thing and that they need units sold and a massive base to then get the reward from software sales or?

The fact that its a remake and not a ground up, brand new Souls game literally shows they clearly only wanted remake type sales as to why the cost was lessor then a normal title or why Spiderman was like a smaller DLC type thing, they are not fucking putting SPIDERMAN 2 at launch and they are NOT doing it as a PS5 only title etc, massively unlikely even if they fucking had the game ready to go, cause why would Sony then want to sell LESS units of the game cause this supply issue?

They'd just delay it as they should, keep working on it and marketing it and release when enough own the system to seek a return or better yet never tell you about despite knowing it exist.

So I'm sorry man, nothing you are saying makes sense to even 3rd parties to then make it seem as if Sony of all companies wanted Bloodborne 2015 numbers, from PS5 DAY 1 without those same PS4 numbers lol It doesn't fucking make sense and its massively flawed arguement.

Not even MS is doing that shit, they literally are sitting out next gen only shit until 2022 to my understanding and they are right to imho. If it makes sense for them and people are still buying the system, they can get a massive return on investmetn of Starfield when they have tens of millions of Series X vs a few...

Souls games are selling hand over fist these days

They are selling on systems with wide established install bases theses days.... =)

Shit man, that is like saying Call Of Duty is really looking for 20 million units DAY 1 and they just put out a NEXT GEN ONLY Call Of Duty on the launch day of PS5 and Series X and then say "wow bro they must have had loft ambitions" and or "its farily ridiculous to believe they didn't expect 20 million" lol Just stop man. It doesn't make sense and a logical reason exist on why you see first and 3rd party wait a bit before putting out massive next gen titles and the ones they do put out is with a expectation for lower numbres based on a lower install base.

Why do you only want to talk about the game selling and ignore the install base of systems just to force a narrative? Its basically saying "can we please not bring up that less PS5's exist please" as if Sony doesn't know that day 1. They want a safe return on investment because LESS PS5's exist then PS4's day 1, how they'd expect 2015 software sales without the same install base is beyond me and sounds just desperate from you.

It was a full on high budget remake

Its also not a budget of a normal AAA ground up title, its typically less on remakes as much of what Bluepoint does is bring over lots of elements from the PS3 code, so no....its not on the level of Sony's other AAA titles as a remake never reallly is, as the are not making a new story or creating gameplay designs or anything like that.

So in terms of budgets, its always going to go

Great Value Port
Remaster
Remake
Brand new AAA sequel
New IP

Normally, that really is the order based on many, many factors. So their budget likely reflects that this is a launch, less systems exist and they don't have the money for new concepts, RND, testing and all the other stuff that is increased in a new release.

I was asking you a question about install base. That "weak argument" that you have dodged time and time again.
This. Might as well be the whole thread imho. I don't even know why one would dodge that topic like this when it directly reflects a titles sales. One can easily CONTROL F and see JUST how little install base was talked about by Casey, I don't even see the point in really hoping we ignore that, but wait JUST talk about the units sold and ignore all other factors apparently.
Your question is irrelevant.

I massively disagree. If a Call Of Duty comes out at launch only on PS5 and Series X, you can't really fucking tell me it selling less units then the other titles has ZERO RELEVANCE on install base.

Its becoming clear why you keep trying to dodge that question as it simply doesn't fit this narrative that it should sell this or that, I don't even know why one would be expecting the same sales of a the game, without the same sales of the hardware.... it literally makes no sense....
 
Last edited:
If it actually did very well they'd be shouting it from the rooftops, let's be real. The bulk of the sales will come from the PC port, that's expected.
DeS should be a prime candidate for a PC port. PC crowd absolutely loves these games, and DeS is a looker. Easy money for Jimbo.
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Diablo 2 does all of that though, released in 2000.

What unique gameplay loop did Souls invent? I'm beginning to think people that think Souls games are unique and invented all this stuff only started playing games with Souls games.

Does it hurt when people say... "Souls like". Does it hurt more because of... you know... starts with a P....
 

iorek21

Member
Well, I’m glad this remake exists, but it was never going to be a heavy hitter, I guess. 1:1 remakes like are not that appealing, specially a hard game like Souls.

I do think that the game will sell a lot more in the long run, though.
 

Allandor

Member
So I guess less than 10m ...

Really it is a launch title and the genre is not for everyone. Impressive sales numbers can't be made with those restrictions. But I guess it will sell many, many more units while more and more ps5 consoles get to the users.
 

EDMIX

Member
So I guess less than 10m ...

Really it is a launch title and the genre is not for everyone. Impressive sales numbers can't be made with those restrictions. But I guess it will sell many, many more units while more and more ps5 consoles get to the users.

Hey slow down buddy, that is "irrelevant" and you shouldn't talk about more units to sell to more users, I mean that has nothing to do with game sales /s
 
Top Bottom