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Hengshui high school, top prep school for China’s gaokao exam

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member


It sounds………….a little unreasonable. The kids sleep in their clothes to save time and run between every class. Everything that is not more studying is punished.

15 hours of studying per day, 7 days per week, for three years, all to do well on one exam.

The results are that 90% of the students score well enough on the gaokao to get into a top university, so it’s a way for kids from poor families to become upwardly mobile.

wikipedia said:
Hengshui High School strictly stipulates the working hours of students. Get up at 5:30 every day, wash the housekeeping, start running at 5:40 on the playground, start morning reading after the running, start breakfast in batches at 6:30, have early preparations for self-study after breakfast, and then start class. 40 minutes per class. There are five classes in the morning and a run in the third class (inter-class exercises). 12:45 to 13:45 for lunch break. There are five classes in the afternoon. After the dinner in each grade, watch the news from 18:50 to 19:10 ("News 30 Minutes"). There are three lessons in the evening for self-study, ending at 21:50, 22 : 10 lights out and goes to bed. The start time of each class and the two minutes before the bedtime are preparation time. The "entry status" is required. For example, two minutes before the class starts, no jokes, no water, and two minutes before bedtime, you must lie in bed and go to bed.

Some interviews with students:



Everyone in class looks sleep deprived and burnt out. One girl said she fell behind and studied so much to catch up that she didn’t have time to wash her hair for 1.5 weeks. This is presented as a good thing.

I don’t think this makes sense to subject to the students, as performance decreases sharply when you grind for the entire day without rest. Your brain organizes data and imprints learning on your off time, and not just when you sleep. That being said, they appear to achieve positive results with their methods.

Teacher: “Those who advocate the contradiction between quality education and exam education, especially those who regard the gaokao as doing exercises, fail to understand the gaokao. According to my personal experience, the gaokao is very important for the improvement of comprehensive literacy.”

Any gaffers take the gaokao back in the day?
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Five star review from one parent of a Hengshui student:

Q5ITbGv.jpg
 

lachesis

Member
I can't say mine is as strict as they were - in late 80s, I went to school around 7am, and came home around 11p. Actual classes started at 8am, but pre-1st hour period was mandated. Regular classes, IIRC were over around 5pm, as it included 2 hour extra classes for everyone. I attended pretty competitive private school, and I was fortunate to be in top 10% of students. Those who were in that group, were separated to "superior" class - that were subject to do the study in school's library after school - the aim for those class was to put more students into named university & which meant the success of the school/

My school literally didn't have any extra-curriculum activities except select few that's part of academic success... and many didn't choose. I chose to be school's library club, just to have chance to relax with my peers and slack off. Since I was library club member (which as far as I can remember nobody took out any books to read for decades, as I could check who checked out the book, and many of the dates were from 70s) - most people who came to library were to study in quiet, air-conditioned environment where nobody made any sound.

Those "superior" class self-studies which happened promptly after regular classes around 5pm, with 1 hour break for cleaning & eating supper you brought home or school cafeteria that sold some light meals... then we were to go straight to the library and study till 10p. And being librarian, I was able to just sneak out from my seat and go into the club room and relax a bit, or do the study in that room separate from the rest of the students, who were basically packed in very small cubicles like caged chicken.... Sometimes I climbed to the roof of the building, and looked out - while my peers watched out for the teachers who came around unexpectedly to watch the students.

My younger brother, who was academically better than I was (He was #1 at everything) - he went even further. When he came back home, he studied until 1-2am, then went bed in his school uniform, wanting to get just a few more minutes of sleep.

I came to U.S. in 1990. Due to my reading being so much slower than natives, I had to spend about 6 times longer to really do regular home work... but even so, I thought U.S. public school was easier. High school math was easiest as I already learned trig and calculus at 9th grade - so solving any math equations were easy. What got me was though - to comprehend the question itself, and also doing written out explanation & proving them. Same went for the science too.

But even so - my generation - gen X - didn't have to deal with these types of extreme environment post education like they are facing in Asia. These days, I see young Asians giving up many things - love, marriage, having children, buying homes, getting stable employment.... and these gaokao types of hyper-competition, is one of the root of the people giving up. Success in China isn't like before - where people came in from rural area to the city, worked their bones off and saved, became successful... these days, unless you have good guan-xi, and best education at top universities and financial support from family, it's extremely difficult to get ahead, or even settle down and create a family.

Herbivore men or Satori generation in Japan, N-po generation in S. Korea, and most recently Tang-ping movement in mainland China - and I honestly don't blame them for what has happened.
China's population has gone down and their recent 3 child allowance policy were met with such cynicism, as well as they entered aging society well before their gdp per person has entered developed country level. Japan is oldest country that many cities are becoming ghost towns. S. Korea's birth rate is like 0.8, and lowest in the world (except those small city-countries), and they will be gone in a few hundred years if this continues. S. Korean government spent like 150 billion dollars to encourage people to have more children, but young people are just giving up and birthrate is plunging down. I won't be surprised if it hits 0.7 next year.

To be honest, I don't know how it will be like in just 10 years from now. Whenever I visit Japan once in a while, I'm always pretty shocked how stale the society has become. Everything has been kept up so clean, but all of them, system and all are so old - as if they are stuck in 80s-90s... and while I enjoy my nostalgia there - but also at the same time I feel rather sad of seeing a dying country. Korea, is more dynamic in appearance, where everything is super new and fancy - but with this type of birthrate and all - how long can they keep up with it when young people are dropping out and giving up, and there are literally less and less children being born..? China is actively trying to shame the young and quickly shut that tang ping movement.... but I am not sure if they can contain.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
My school literally didn't have any extra-curriculum activities except select few that's part of academic success... and many didn't choose. I chose to be school's library club, just to have chance to relax with my peers and slack off. Since I was library club member (which as far as I can remember nobody took out any books to read for decades, as I could check who checked out the book, and many of the dates were from 70s) - most people who came to library were to study in quiet, air-conditioned environment where nobody made any sound.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. This part in particular is wild. There's probably something to be said for the western approach of considering how a student excels in extracurricular activities, regardless of what those specific activities are, as long as they're well-rounded, as well as looking at unique factors through the essay etc. It gives a chance for students to pursue what they're interested in rather than conforming themselves to a singular expectation.

To be honest, I don't know how it will be like in just 10 years from now. Whenever I visit Japan once in a while, I'm always pretty shocked how stale the society has become. Everything has been kept up so clean, but all of them, system and all are so old - as if they are stuck in 80s-90s... and while I enjoy my nostalgia there - but also at the same time I feel rather sad of seeing a dying country. Korea, is more dynamic in appearance, where everything is super new and fancy - but with this type of birthrate and all - how long can they keep up with it when young people are dropping out and giving up, and there are literally less and less children being born..? China is actively trying to shame the young and quickly shut that tang ping movement.

Japan's time in the economic spotlight may be over as the global market stops valuing artisan craftsmanship and we move to software and automation. Beautiful country, though, and maybe they'll be able to transition.
 

lachesis

Member
Oh, my high school, also had hockey team that were dissolved in early 80s... or so I was told.
Their equipment survived though - and teachers used cut-down hockey sticks to punish those who did bad on the exams. Some teachers used wooden pointing stick... that was said to have steel core in order to make it more durable during that punishing sessions.

Only extra curriculum classes we had... was school council, science club, math club, english club, and library club, which doubled as literature club. Zero sports, nor art, nor band. Then again, our school ground wasn't even big enough to run 100m straight line, so we had to run in a wide curve for a physical exam. To be honest, I'm not even sure how my school was allowed to exist... maybe because it was a private school?

One math teacher, his nick name was "Jesus" as he was pretty mellow and had long, curvy hair which wasn't that normal for a teacher. But contrary to his looks, he used to pick one person from the class in the beginning of a semester, and beat the hell out of that kid (if he wronged or made trouble) to make an example - and after he did that, since everyone were so fearful of him - the class became exceptionally quiet, and everyone prioritized his home works. (I went all boy's school for middle/high - till came to U.S.) One classmate of mine, his face was banged into the black board like "Yakuza" style - he had double nose-bleed, and I am an eye-witness of that. I did hear that he got ambushed by bunch of graduates years after. I wish I could have felt bad for "Jesus", but after I heard that news, I went "eh" ;)
 

nush

Member
Success in China isn't like before - where people came in from rural area to the city, worked their bones off and saved, became successful... these days, unless you have good guan-xi, and best education at top universities and financial support from family, it's extremely difficult to get ahead, or even settle down and create a family.

You can still do that in China, but the bar for "Success" has raised to require a big new apartment, car and run your own business. A lot of fakers out there living off loans and credit just for face.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Japan's time in the economic spotlight may be over as the global market stops valuing artisan craftsmanship and we move to software and automation. Beautiful country, though, and maybe they'll be able to transition.
Everything is so automated now, unless someone wants to get into programming or developing the automation itself, the most important thing IMO is having an open analytical mindset. PCs and fancy software will do the math for you. Nobody in the world doing finance or science math gets out a pencil and eraser and does formulas like high school chem class.

That's why in finance, there's fewer and fewer black and white bean counters getting hired and more holistic finance people who get those churned out reports and make decisions on it. There isn't one accountant, FP&A manager or tax person who sits at their desk with a pencil sharpener doing booklets of handwritten tabulations. That's what all those SAP and Oracle based software packages are for.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Everything is so automated now, unless someone wants to get into programming or developing the automation itself, the most important thing IMO is having an open analytical mindset. PCs and fancy software will do the math for you. Nobody in the world doing finance or science math gets out a pencil and eraser and does formulas like high school chem class.

That's why in finance, there's fewer and fewer black and white bean counters getting hired and more holistic finance people who get those churned out reports and make decisions on it. There isn't one accountant, FP&A manager or tax person who sits at their desk with a pencil sharpener doing booklets of handwritten tabulations. That's what all those SAP and Oracle based software packages are for.
Quants are in high demand in finance for that reason, yeah.
 
Japan's time in the economic spotlight may be over as the global market stops valuing artisan craftsmanship and we move to software and automation. Beautiful country, though, and maybe they'll be able to transition.
But what about my artisan shaded Japanese pantsu? Clearly the Japanese will turn away from flash animation and toon boom to give me detailed onii sans!
 

KielCasto

Member
That sounds hellish. Two things I only had in common were waking up at 5:30 and then doing house chores. I can’t imagine having little time for leisure and having to study late into the night (the younger me thought that anything past 9 pm was already really late).

It’s hard to believe that this is sustainable or good for the long term health-wise. But then they get accepted into top universities 🤔.
 

lachesis

Member
Thanks for sharing your experiences. This part in particular is wild. There's probably something to be said for the western approach of considering how a student excels in extracurricular activities, regardless of what those specific activities are, as long as they're well-rounded, as well as looking at unique factors through the essay etc. It gives a chance for students to pursue what they're interested in rather than conforming themselves to a singular expectation.
My pleasure. If you choose to go to high school that aims to go to college (whether you succeed at it or not is another matter - you could still go to vocational high schools, but often it gets looked down upon) - you get to be divided into "liberal arts" and "natural science" in your junior year - depending on how well you do on language or math. Other than that - my school didn't teach or encourage anything other than studying and getting high scores on the test.

I wanted to be a painter since young. Not that I had the greatest passion for it - but I was good at it and I liked doing it, and I wanted to pursue my future as an artist if possible... so I wanted to go into specialized art school when I was graduating middle school - but since I had good academic score and all, my parents were really against it telling me "how expensive art studies are, all the private lessons and all - and also how poor you will be when you become an artist" etc etc.

I exactly didn't want to be poor - so I chose to go to regular high school (which was... pretty much hell, when you think about it) Kinda ironic that in U.S., I got a full ride scholarship for fine art for my university degree - and although I sold my soul and became a designer for the mainstream media - I am fiscally doing pretty good, thanks to the training I did in my university years. :)

But back to the point - that yes. Although the school always says their mission is to bring up a well-rounded "person" - who is intelligent, considerate and someone to become a positive member of the society, etc - but in practice, it wasn't anything but. We were just there to study. My school was in rather poor section of the city where many of parents were working day-to-day job, and a lot of well-off families already moved to where famous school and affluent district - so the school really wanted to "whip" the kid into the most famous universities regardless of their interests. The school actually put up a big sign of X numbers of students were accepted in University A, B and C" on front gate after a college exam was over. I was pretty sick looking at it.

I felt like I had no say in the what kind of life path that I would walk back then... not even what to major in the college. Partially because of that and my U.S. citizenship (was born in U.S.) - I just decided to come to U.S. at the age of 16, by myself. Kinda glad I did.

A lot of kids, especially in Korea and China, think of their school lives as sheer "competition" vs their peers. Dog-eat-dog type of competition. (Japan seems to be much more lax, as I've seen the chart, with proper extra-curriculum studies and all.)
 
China education, and subsequently when they go to work, is full of problems. The amount of work that students have, besides already having classes, is amazingly stupid. I see it everywhere here, on weekends these tutoring schools and some high schools, are full of students just studying. They live their lives inside the school, they just go home to sleep and change clothes (sometimes).
The work force is another problem, bosses expect the employees to follow the same time of life they had while studying. Work on weekends, 996, give the life for your boss and the company.

They have a REALLY BIG problem when it comes to efficiency. They work hard with a 996 mindset, but not smart. Lot's of wasted time - as nush nush said it before, fake productivity.

PS: I was a teacher at the University for 3.5 months. I saw the amount of work that my students would have during the semester.
 
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nush

Member
on weekends these tutoring schools and some high schools, are full of students just studying. They live their lives inside the school, they just go home to sleep and change clothes (sometimes).

It's the summer holidays here now, lots of private tutoring classes are full of kids all week. My neighbor runs an art class, she's really talented and has a daily class right now of about 30 kids. The kids say around 10 to 16 just are not outside playing, they are all doing extra study during the holiday.

The only difference I can notice that it is the kids summer break is that the kindergartens are not loudly playing happy music each morning waking me up for the next couple of months.
 

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member


It sounds………….a little unreasonable. The kids sleep in their clothes to save time and run between every class. Everything that is not more studying is punished.

15 hours of studying per day, 7 days per week, for three years, all to do well on one exam.

The results are that 90% of the students score well enough on the gaokao to get into a top university, so it’s a way for kids from poor families to become upwardly mobile.



Some interviews with students:



Everyone in class looks sleep deprived and burnt out. One girl said she fell behind and studied so much to catch up that she didn’t have time to wash her hair for 1.5 weeks. This is presented as a good thing.

I don’t think this makes sense to subject to the students, as performance decreases sharply when you grind for the entire day without rest. Your brain organizes data and imprints learning on your off time, and not just when you sleep. That being said, they appear to achieve positive results with their methods.

Teacher: “Those who advocate the contradiction between quality education and exam education, especially those who regard the gaokao as doing exercises, fail to understand the gaokao. According to my personal experience, the gaokao is very important for the improvement of comprehensive literacy.”

Any gaffers take the gaokao back in the day?

I thought that only this happened in Mexico, with the ENARM exam.

So I reach the level as a Chinese?
 
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It's the summer holidays here now, lots of private tutoring classes are full of kids all week. My neighbor runs an art class, she's really talented and has a daily class right now of about 30 kids. The kids say around 10 to 16 just are not outside playing, they are all doing extra study during the holiday.

The only difference I can notice that it is the kids summer break is that the kindergartens are not loudly playing happy music each morning waking me up for the next couple of months.
Yeah, same here.

Kids here are not kids. They have more responsibilities than their parents. It's so fucking ridiculous.


Now the government is going to start cracking down tutoring schools. A lot of teachers might lose their jobs, including foreigners. I got an offer from a big english school here in Xi'an but because of the situation, I'm safer if I don't take it.
 
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down 2 orth

Member
You can still do that in China, but the bar for "Success" has raised to require a big new apartment, car and run your own business. A lot of fakers out there living off loans and credit just for face.
The government wants to put everyone in debt. That's literally the system that replaced slavery around the world: get the weak-minded into debt so that they have to work for a shit wage. Reinforcing those ideals with social pressure also helps tremendously.
 

lachesis

Member
396.jpg


CCP, You can do nothing, we are in charge.
Citizens: OK, then we'll do nothing!

CCP:

Screen_Shot_2019-01-17_at_4.22.43_PM.jpg

Really, the original "Tang Ping is justice" manifesto(?) was pretty wild, as I just found out about Tang ping not that long ago.

That manifesto was something in the line of...

"All the work you do, you will just be used by capitalists and be thrown away when you are finished.
By living the way of Tang Ping (lying flat), you can live your own life with bare minimum cost."
(in a socialisty/communist country... I know, it's a capitalist society now ruled by communist (?) party IRL)

And CCP's response was something in the line of
"Young people who don't work hard should be ashamed of themselves - losing/failing is not shameful, but giving up is shameful"...
and they quickly shut down the SNS when it began to gain steam pretty quickly.

Japan's Satori/hikikomori generation, and Korea's N-po (Giving up N amount of things in life) generation has similar vibe to it too, and has become a pretty big issue in both countries.

It's like there's one extreme for one thing, then there's another extreme for another thing. Alas, such is the human nature I guess...
 

nush

Member
Really, the original "Tang Ping is justice" manifesto(?) was pretty wild, as I just found out about Tang ping not that long ago.

That manifesto was something in the line of...

"All the work you do, you will just be used by capitalists and be thrown away when you are finished.
By living the way of Tang Ping (lying flat), you can live your own life with bare minimum cost."
(in a socialisty/communist country... I know, it's a capitalist society now ruled by communist (?) party IRL)

And CCP's response was something in the line of
"Young people who don't work hard should be ashamed of themselves - losing/failing is not shameful, but giving up is shameful"...
and they quickly shut down the SNS when it began to gain steam pretty quickly.

Japan's Satori/hikikomori generation, and Korea's N-po (Giving up N amount of things in life) generation has similar vibe to it too, and has become a pretty big issue in both countries.

It's like there's one extreme for one thing, then there's another extreme for another thing. Alas, such is the human nature I guess...

It's the lack of hardship in some young peoples lives that leads to this, not just in Asian countries. The western NEETs that live all day on Twitter engaging in slacktivisim for example. If you've never HAD to work hard because you were born into a comfortable life, doing any work to build up something for yourself is "Too much effort, too hard, what's the point?".
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
And yet despite all this every Chinese I ever worked with completely breaks the moment you ask them to organise their work and don’t give them very precise instructions on what to do. It’s like that part of their brain is missing.
 

Outlier

Member
There's so much I WANT to say about this, but have to measure my words.

I can understand the intent on enforcing this kind of LIFESTYLE, but there is always a price to pay with extremes.

Living with this mindset and enforcement I'd say is a form of religion and culture. You must follow the teachings or be punished/ostracized. Along with the potential to clash with other cultures.

It's a double edged sword.

I think there is nefarious intentions behind this, that will show it's face in the future.

Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
 
It's the lack of hardship in some young peoples lives that leads to this, not just in Asian countries. The western NEETs that live all day on Twitter engaging in slacktivisim for example. If you've never HAD to work hard because you were born into a comfortable life, doing any work to build up something for yourself is "Too much effort, too hard, what's the point?".
I come from a reasonable family where nothing was missing. I had good education, took a master's in one of the most sought out fields. It's true that a lot of people don't want to work because they never did it before, but I agree with one thing: Companies suck the soul of you, the joy. You're nothing more than a robot for them and they make you go through harsh treatment just for you to get enough money to put some food on the table and to be able to rent a house.

Times are changing, costs are going up, but companies keep paying the same and expecting even more from you. I see that everyday, low pay, lots and lots of work, no personal time off. That's not how you treat your employees. If you mental health goes to shit, so does your work, and so does your company. They expect you to live to work, not work to live.

One thing is being a slack, the other is thinking that is unfair being exploited.
 

longdi

Banned
I come from a reasonable family where nothing was missing. I had good education, took a master's in one of the most sought out fields. It's true that a lot of people don't want to work because they never did it before, but I agree with one thing: Companies suck the soul of you, the joy. You're nothing more than a robot for them and they make you go through harsh treatment just for you to get enough money to put some food on the table and to be able to rent a house.

Times are changing, costs are going up, but companies keep paying the same and expecting even more from you. I see that everyday, low pay, lots and lots of work, no personal time off. That's not how you treat your employees. If you mental health goes to shit, so does your work, and so does your company. They expect you to live to work, not work to live.

One thing is being a slack, the other is thinking that is unfair being exploited.

Nah wont change in our life time or more unless everyone exploited starts a movement. There are always cheaper labour coming about for the top to exploit brazenly. Many kids are also more concerned to get involved with woke-ism than bread and butter issues. Maybe that is the point of woke movement, created to distract from real issues. 🤷‍♀️
 
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haxan7

Volunteered as Tribute
First thoughts after watching the video:

Chinese society (whether that’s from the government or what I don’t know) doesn’t give a shit about individual rights and liberty, or even basic comfort. They are willing to forego many things westerners would take for granted for the advancement of the whole.

In a way, the hardened focus on productivity and success seems antithetical to previous communist systems where workers got by on putting in the minimum effort.

It seems a lot closer to a Japanese work ethic than Cuba, for example.
 

lachesis

Member
It's the lack of hardship in some young peoples lives that leads to this, not just in Asian countries. The western NEETs that live all day on Twitter engaging in slacktivisim for example. If you've never HAD to work hard because you were born into a comfortable life, doing any work to build up something for yourself is "Too much effort, too hard, what's the point?".

True - perhaps it's coming from different angle in western country's case. Of course, society itself has cradled people in a way... like the G. Michael Hopf quote "Hard times creat strong men..."

One of my co-worker is actually from Afghanistan. He came over in 80s - like the movie "Kite Runner" - had to escape from his own home near Kabul at night, went over to India (He's Hindu, and I believe they were being persecuted back then). His family settled in Detroit, and he worked & studied art and became a cab driver - till he finally landed the job where I work. He's very driven person and exceptionally hard worker. He's about 10 years older than I am, and when I started working my job about 20+ years ago - he had his son born that year. Over the years, he has working to support his own family and his own extended family as the eldest of the sons to the extent that I can't even imagine myself doing... but his son, somehow became a neet. Dropped out of college, quite jobs in the middle, resorting to games and occasional hang-out with his friends, while still living with his parents to this date. Apparently, according to my coworker and his wife, it's not that uncommon for boys to do so these days... and that was pretty shocking to hear. (His daughter, though is doing just fine - socially & academically)

Another example, actually is my own cousin who is also an immigrant who came to U.S. when he was about 3 years old back in 60s. Super driven person, but very elitist. Himself is a millionaire being a very famous medical doctor, lives in same town as very famous musician in NJ - I sometimes visit his mansion. He's much older than I am - I guess he's more of very late boomer - and have children & beautiful wife. Girls are all doing fine - both of them went to Ivy league college - but his only son, my cousin always showed concern of him not showing any enthusiasm to achieve something... that how our generation were so driven (shrug) to do anything - but him, with all this wealth and comfort can't achieve any higher etc. I do think he's being way too harsh on the kid (as he thinks anything under than Columbia is garbage - as the kid just went decent state univ with music degree - and he thinks medical degree is the best, etc. Heck, I'm a freaking mystery creature to him - whom graduated a small town college in Iowa with a useless (!) fine art degree, coming to U.S. alone and made myself in NYC without family support - he calls me an American success story, but to be honest, I was just surviving, and still feel like I am. In fact, I haven't taken a single vacation say other than company assigned holidays for 2 years now... and feeling the corporate burn myself.)

The way I see about Japan's Satori generation coming from their long standing economic staggering for past 30 years since its bubble burst - but as per the Korea or China... I think it comes from too much competition for limited resources. Many of young Koreans that I know work and study to get the certificates and other requirements like TOEIC to go into desireable jobs (namely government jobs, big name companies, doctors, lawyers etc) - yet they can't even afford to get an apartment in Seoul or anyplace near by. In terms of Beijing - even if you graduate from top universities - it's quite difficult, if not impossible to afford a house.. like they'd have to save their entire salary for 40+ years to afford one. Seoul being 29 years, Tokyo being 15 years, and NYC being 10 years.. according to a stat site "Numbeo" That says alot... and I honestly don't blame some of them wanting to opt out and find alternative way. In a sense, many of regular folks want to find alternative way for their own comfort - like after pandemic, most people want to do remote work in U.S. (like 60%) - according to a news that I heard today on the radio.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadesh...outrageously-expensive-homes/?sh=566f599aa3ce

Here's an article from forbes regarding the housing market. Imagine being a college graduate, came from poorer rural part, which is basically the most of the country, trying to make a living and afford to buy a home for his family. We are talking about GDP per capita is around $10,500... and typical university grad salary being little over $10k. Also good workplace and education system tend to be concentrated in the big cities like Beijing and Seoul - people just flock to them like fire flies... to certain extent, I think Seoul and Beijing's property price will keep going higher, even when the population of their nations tank and their economy shrinks... until it becomes catastrophic level. IMHO, western NEETs and Asian N-po/Tang ping/Nei Juan are on a different level entirely. I'm sure there are western style NEETs in Asian countries too. I know a few, but most of them are born in a really rich family and living off their family wealth on their whim, doing whatever they want to do... hardly struggling. However, I also know that they are not the common type of people as vast majority of young folks struggle day to day to get ahead in those countries... and honestly, I feel sorry for the young folks who try so hard and still struggling.
 
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Your rent is paying off the landlords mortgage. Double burn! :messenger_smiling_horns:

Ehh, while my house is being built I'm stuck renting a house for another year. The idea of that sucks, but it's much better than pissing the money down the drain at an apartment complex. Plus I'll get that sweet sweet deposit cash when it's time for the lease to be up. All the maintenance is free, just have to take care of the lawn.
 
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GeekyDad

Member
...It sounds………….a little unreasonable. ...
Yeesh, you think?

On the other hand, it sounds like the Olympic training for knowledge. Would never encourage my kid to do it, but if it was something they wanted to pursue, I hope I'd have supported them to do it.

Edit: I will say, referring to it as a "factory" seems misleading. Watching the video, the high school reminded me of watching U.S. military regimen. No one refers to that very strict lifestyle in a way that suggests inhuman. It's a little disingenuous, I think.
 
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"I'm just a pig from the countryside, but still determined to go dig for cabbages in the city."

My god, while the west is severely lacking in discipline and hard-work mentality, the inhumane Chinese utilitarian approach to education will break their kids. Learning is as much a creative process as it is a memorization effort. This archaic approach will produce decent worker drones, but it will not be China's answer to their educational delay. What's worse is that parents are driven by their unforgiving society to put their own kids through this educational nightmare, ruining themselves in the process.

As we've reached a point where our lifetimes have become much shorter than the potential knowledge in even the most specialized fields, the future of education is not in storing information, but in processing and combining it into new meaningful ways. Yes, exams are important, but only to evaluate a minimal required level of competence. As such China's education system is woefully outdated and does not lend itself to innovative thinking.

Every system where knowledge is gated by authoritarian institutions is destined to fail sooner or later. This will not end well, so long as the Chinese are confusing education with military drill.
 
"I'm just a pig from the countryside, but still determined to go dig for cabbages in the city."

My god, while the west is severely lacking in discipline and hard-work mentality, the inhumane Chinese utilitarian approach to education will break their kids. Learning is as much a creative process as it is a memorization effort. This archaic approach will produce decent worker drones, but it will not be China's answer to their educational delay. What's worse is that parents are driven by their unforgiving society to put their own kids through this educational nightmare, ruining themselves in the process.

As we've reached a point where our lifetimes have become much shorter than the potential knowledge in even the most specialized fields, the future of education is not in storing information, but in processing and combining it into new meaningful ways. Yes, exams are important, but only to evaluate a minimal required level of competence. As such China's education system is woefully outdated and does not lend itself to innovative thinking.

Every system where knowledge is gated by authoritarian institutions is destined to fail sooner or later. This will not end well, so long as the Chinese are confusing education with military drill.
The biggest problem is the forced memorization. They do know the topic, but if you ask them to stray away from what they memorized... they can't seem to think at all. Basic logic is a thing that is missing to a lot of people here, engineers included. At least that's my experience.

Logic and problem solving are the two best skills to strive in the workplace, hell.. in life. Not memorization.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
The biggest problem is the forced memorization. They do know the topic, but if you ask them to stray away from what they memorized... they can't seem to think at all. Basic logic is a thing that is missing to a lot of people here, engineers included. At least that's my experience.

Logic and problem solving are the two best skills to strive in the workplace, hell.. in life. Not memorization.
Which is why we should be grateful China will never dominate the knowledge economy the same way the West did.
 

Aesius

Member
What a terrible existence. I would never have children if I knew they would be subjected to a life like that. Zero enjoyment. This is essentially fancy slave training. Just "programming" kids to be the more efficient producers of capital all while robbing them of some of the best years of their lives. But I guess they'll be able to relax when they're 70+ and can finally retire, right?
 

lachesis

Member
If I can say anything positive about this type of drilling in... is some of them actually enjoy studying very hard like that. Select few, mind you - that they find their own validation from studying that hard, and sometimes it's their only source of feeling validated.

My SIL is one of them. My brother went to same (hellish) boy's high school as I have, became class president. SIL was a class president of girl's high school of same foundation - where they met each other thru student council meetings in high school days.
(The perk of joining that boring club, not known to many of my peers - otherwise would have created a massive influx of thirsty boys - was that once a year, we were allowed to meet up with the foundation's girl's high school club members.... although my own experience - the girls from that high school were very obtuse. Figuratively & literally.... and one of them had no eyebrows, to my horror)

Anyway, my SIL - she's not a good home maker, nor my brother is at any domestic matter either. Neither can cook worth any - and when my brother was stationed in NY/NJ area for 3 years - I witnessed their life style. 3 nieces used to come to my place for decent meal, and I often cooked meals for them. I used to call them locusts/yellow turban bandits from Romance of 3 kingdoms, as they literally gobbled up everything I had in my week's worth of food. My mother & SIL's mother always have to help them out with upbringing their 3 daughters too. High earner they both are, but I find something common is missing in my SIL - The mess they live in.. is something just out of my mind. They both have couple of masters degree + then some, but one thing they can't do is keep their house tidy nor cook nor have some common sense that's so apparent like how to talk to parents in respective way. Since they have 3 daughters as well - the hair ball you see around the house is like wild west tumble weed rolling around....

But that aside... they ALWAYS studied. Studying is like hobby for them. Even their kids, did that... probably learned to do so from their parents. When we went camping, kids brought their text books for fun (!), especially my eldest niece. An academic genius she is, has been accepted into this Gaokao style (but much more civilized and not as spartan) boarding school which is hyper competitive. She really wanted to go that school, living on her own with her peers - as she's a very outgoing person - and happy as she can be, as far as I can tell.

There are certain people, who really really loves studying, more than anything else. I'm pretty positive, that the boy who spoke on the podium regarding pig digging cabbage, is probably one of them. Without enjoying it to certain degree... I don't think anybody would be able to endure these type of drilling in. (Although.... I have to admit, that people have incredible ability of getting themselves of getting used to any sort of situation. My own high school days, I wasn't particularly unhappy either. I still lived my life day to day, just like anyone else in the school. We did complain, grumbled and all.. but just went along like everyone else like lemmings. Like being "Institutionalized" in Shawshank Redemption...)
 

Amiga

Member
Making life more difficult than it is.

Just focus on teaching reading and math. provide accessible programs and tools for other disciplines. Talent, ambition and Gods fortune ultimately decide the outcome.
 
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