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Horizon Forbidden West cost 110 Million to produce according to Dutch Documentary

Draugoth

Gold Member


https://m.imdb.com/title/tt12496904/trivia/?ref_=tt_ql_trv
To coincide with the game's release, Vanity Fair Italy published their first digital issue with Aloy gracing the front cover. She became the first digital character in the history of the magazine to do so.

This game became the first PlayStation title to be adapted into a LEGO set. On February 15, 2022, LEGO announced a set based on the Tallneck, which also includes a Watcher machine and a minifigure of Aloy.

The game is set in post-apocalyptic California, Nevada and Utah.
 
That's around the spending of bigger harder pushed Sony titles, games must be getting catastrophically expensive in short time.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Five years to develop a safe sequel is nuts. they wouldve halved the costs if they had limited the scope and shipped it in 2.5 years like most of these sequels used to take.

I have no idea why the game had almost a hundred forgettable side quests featuring fully mocapped dialogues trees. For something that takes 5 years, i wouldve expected a ground up reboot like GOW 2018.

Sony studios need to go back to 15 hour campaigns with maybe another 15 hours of additional content. 50 hour campaigns with another 50 hours of meandering content is not the way to go. Financially its simply not sustainable. Their best studios simply cant take 5 years to make one game. thats one game per gen.
 

Unknown?

Member
Five years to develop a safe sequel is nuts. they wouldve halved the costs if they had limited the scope and shipped it in 2.5 years like most of these sequels used to take.

I have no idea why the game had almost a hundred forgettable side quests featuring fully mocapped dialogues trees. For something that takes 5 years, i wouldve expected a ground up reboot like GOW 2018.

Sony studios need to go back to 15 hour campaigns with maybe another 15 hours of additional content. 50 hour campaigns with another 50 hours of meandering content is not the way to go. Financially its simply not sustainable. Their best studios simply cant take 5 years to make one game. thats one game per gen.
Where were sane takes like this in the PS3 era? It was chock full of people bashing 10-12 hour games that were fantastic. It's the reason why games are bloated crap these days.
 
Five years to develop a safe sequel is nuts. they wouldve halved the costs if they had limited the scope and shipped it in 2.5 years like most of these sequels used to take.

I have no idea why the game had almost a hundred forgettable side quests featuring fully mocapped dialogues trees. For something that takes 5 years, i wouldve expected a ground up reboot like GOW 2018.

Sony studios need to go back to 15 hour campaigns with maybe another 15 hours of additional content. 50 hour campaigns with another 50 hours of meandering content is not the way to go. Financially its simply not sustainable. Their best studios simply cant take 5 years to make one game. thats one game per gen.

I think most developers mistakenly think that "hours of content = better sales". That may be somewhat true, but it really depends on the quality of the content. The side stuff in BOTW or Elden Ring is good and worth it, but not the side content in HFW.

I agree that if the side content is not up to snuff I'd rather they just focus on a 15-25 hour single player campaign alone.

There's a lot of wasted dev effort on HFW that would have been better spent elsewhere or releasing the game sooner. Mind you, I still enjoyed the game a great deal, but quickly found anything other than the main quest to be not worth my time.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Where were sane takes like this in the PS3 era? It was chock full of people bashing 10-12 hour games that were fantastic. It's the reason why games are bloated crap these days.
I'd argue open-world fare has always been padded to hell, PS3 era or not. Or at least - everything from AC onwards.
But even story-heavy adventure games were often padded to add to runtime well beyond what worked (Deadspace 1, Bioshock Infinite, Beyond Two Souls... even TLOU1 all had unnecessary filler that threw off the story pacing - or completely ruined the end-game *cough* Deaspace).
 

mckmas8808

Banned
Five years to develop a safe sequel is nuts. they wouldve halved the costs if they had limited the scope and shipped it in 2.5 years like most of these sequels used to take.

I have no idea why the game had almost a hundred forgettable side quests featuring fully mocapped dialogues trees. For something that takes 5 years, i wouldve expected a ground up reboot like GOW 2018.

Sony studios need to go back to 15 hour campaigns with maybe another 15 hours of additional content. 50 hour campaigns with another 50 hours of meandering content is not the way to go. Financially its simply not sustainable. Their best studios simply cant take 5 years to make one game. thats one game per gen.

And yet it made it's money back already. So what do we say to that?
 

Gaiff

Gold Member
I think most developers mistakenly think that "hours of content = better sales". That may be somewhat true, but it really depends on the quality of the content. The side stuff in BOTW or Elden Ring is good and worth it, but not the side content in HFW.

I agree that if the side content is not up to snuff I'd rather they just focus on a 15-25 hour single player campaign alone.

There's a lot of wasted dev effort on HFW that would have been better spent elsewhere or releasing the game sooner. Mind you, I still enjoyed the game a great deal, but quickly found anything other than the main quest to be not worth my time.
Geez, turns out that you were completely off with your $200M+ figures and that I and SlimySnake SlimySnake were correct with our $100M. Who woulda thunk?
 
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Geez, turns out that you were completely off with your $300M figures and that I and SlimySnake SlimySnake were correct with our $100M. Who woulda thunk?

Geez, you were completely off on what I said about the budget of these games. First, it was in reference to GoW:R, which I think was more expensive to produce than HFW. Second, I estimated at the low end that GoW:R was $150M (dev only), and third, this figure of 110M does NOT include marketing spend, which my figure did.

Who woulda thunk?

This new revelation, if true, only further solidifies my position while yours was totally wrong.
 
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mckmas8808

Banned
I think most developers mistakenly think that "hours of content = better sales". That may be somewhat true, but it really depends on the quality of the content. The side stuff in BOTW or Elden Ring is good and worth it, but not the side content in HFW.

I agree that if the side content is not up to snuff I'd rather they just focus on a 15-25 hour single player campaign alone.

There's a lot of wasted dev effort on HFW that would have been better spent elsewhere or releasing the game sooner. Mind you, I still enjoyed the game a great deal, but quickly found anything other than the main quest to be not worth my time.

I disagree here. Also remember that Covid slowed down development of the game. But the side quests were actually decent. Not Witcher 3 great, but also better than the first Horizon game.
 
I disagree here. Also remember that Covid slowed down development of the game. But the side quests were actually decent. Not Witcher 3 great, but also better than the first Horizon game.

Some "main'" side quests were quite good.

But I am talking about all the other stuff that just wasn't really all that interesting. And the vast majority of the world design seems like it was procedurally generated without any final touches to make the world truly interesting.
 

Gaiff

Gold Member
Geez, you were completely off on what I said about the budget of these games. First, it was in reference to GoW:R, which I think was more expensive to produce than HFW. Second, I estimated at the low end that GoW:R was $150M (dev only), and third, this figure of 110M does NOT include marketing spend, which my figure did.

Who woulda thunk?

This new revelation, if true, only further solidifies my position while yours was totally wrong.
Oh please, you're so full of shit. This is what you claimed:
Dev costs are that expensive

SSM is like 400 employees in an expensive part of the country

Assuming average spend per employee including benefits, overhead, etc is 150,000 per year (not what they get paid, just total average cost including everything) that’s 4.5 years x 400 employees x 150,000 = 270M

This is insanely high so either my average cost per employee needs a haircut or the number of employees does.

But even reducing it to 100,000 and 250 employees is over 110M

This doesn’t even include all the external costs (partners at other studios).

So yeah, these games do really cost 150-200M and are a lot more expensive than early PS3 era.

This is what Shawn Layden was talking about
To which I responded:
Not every employee works full time on the project. $270M production cost sounds very unlikely when Horizon Zero Down from 2017 was only in the $50M ballpark.
$270M for GOWR according to your formula we straight up told you was wrong because Horizon cost a bit over $50M back in 2017. Then you went "bu bu but inflation and number of employees!" which is freakin' ridiculous. Now we're supposed to believe that GOWR cost 2.5x what HFW cost because? I dunno. $200M for production alone is insane and we told you as much.

With marketing, sure. For just production? Unlikely. A production cost between $80-100 sounds plausible. With another $100M for marketing. Total plus marketing might be $150M-200M.
So no, you were completely off the mark and were going off about GOWR having a Cyberpunk/RDR2 level of budget which is ludicrous. With your crazy formula, we ended up with HZD costing $150M to produce when it cost 1/3 of that. Your position has been thoroughly debunked. Just man up and admit it.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Geez, you were completely off on what I said about the budget of these games. First, it was in reference to GoW:R, which I think was more expensive to produce than HFW. Second, I estimated at the low end that GoW:R was $150M (dev only), and third, this figure of 110M does NOT include marketing spend, which my figure did.

Who woulda thunk?

This new revelation, if true, only further solidifies my position while yours was totally wrong.
Hundred million for 5 years of paying 400 employees gets us to $20 million a year to run that studio.

That lines up with the numbers we had for uncharted and the last of us which were $20 million for those 2 year dev cycles for 200 man teams. As you can see the costs per dev havent increased. The costs have increased because their ridiculous decision to make every game a 50-100 hour game.

Spiderman is only 15 hours with maybe 5-10 hours of additional content. And it sells more than any other sony open world game. They really need to focus on quality over quantity. Ubisoft is NOT the publisher to follow. They are in deep shit because their 100 hour games are simply impossible to make.

They can also follow From's earlier games and the original Mass Effect trilogy. 20 hour campaigns with 10 hours of additional content, but A LOT of replayablity. I have no idea what Horizon is trying to be. they have so many RPG elements, dialogue trees, different skill trees, gear levels etc, but there is no replayablity due to how every class basically plays the same and there is no fun in choosing different dialogues like there was in Mass effect.
 
Oh please, you're so full of shit. This is what you claimed:

To which I responded:

$270M for GOWR according to your formula we straight up told you was wrong because Horizon cost a bit over $50M back in 2017. Then you went "bu bu but inflation and number of employees!" which is freakin' ridiculous. Now we're supposed to believe that GOWR cost 2.5x what HFW cost because? I dunno. $200M for production alone is insane and we told you as much.


So no, you were completely off the mark and were going off about GOWR having a Cyberpunk/RDR2 level of budget which is ludicrous. With your crazy formula, we ended up with HZD costing $150M to produce when it cost 1/3 of that. Your position has been thoroughly debunked. Just man up and admit it.

Oh please, how can you read what I said and not say YOU'RE the one that's full of crap?

First, I gave a range of the dev costs for GoW:R. A game that came out later (higher labor costs) and in SSM instead of EU (much higher dev costs). The low end estimate was 110M. The high end was 270M. Not knowing all the facts I gave a range bound estimate, averaging somewhere starting at 150M more realistically. That's likely true.

Please learn to read before running your mouth.
 
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Hundred million for 5 years of paying 400 employees gets us to $20 million a year to run that studio.

That lines up with the numbers we had for uncharted and the last of us which were $20 million for those 2 year dev cycles for 200 man teams. As you can see the costs per dev havent increased. The costs have increased because their ridiculous decision to make every game a 50-100 hour game.

Spiderman is only 15 hours with maybe 5-10 hours of additional content. And it sells more than any other sony open world game. They really need to focus on quality over quantity. Ubisoft is NOT the publisher to follow. They are in deep shit because their 100 hour games are simply impossible to make.

They can also follow From's earlier games and the original Mass Effect trilogy. 20 hour campaigns with 10 hours of additional content, but A LOT of replayablity. I have no idea what Horizon is trying to be. they have so many RPG elements, dialogue trees, different skill trees, gear levels etc, but there is no replayablity due to how every class basically plays the same and there is no fun in choosing different dialogues like there was in Mass effect.

The uncharted (2009, CA) numbers aren't comparable to GG (2017-2022, EU).

Different cities. Different times. You are comparing 2009 income levels to 2017-2023? That makes zero sense. Inflation is a real thing.
 

Gaiff

Gold Member
Oh please, how can you read what I said and not say YOU'RE the one that's full of crap?

First, I gave a range of the dev costs for GoW:R. A game that came out later (higher labor costs) and in SSM instead of EU (much higher dev costs). The low end estimate was 110M. The high end was 270M. Not knowing all the facts I gave a range bound estimate, averaging somewhere starting at 150M more realistically. That's likely true.
That came out later? Dude, it came out a couple of months later. You're talking as if they had been made 30 years apart. There's like 9 months separating them. It'll barely affect the budget.

Also, yeah, everybody knows that Amsterdam, one of the most expensive cities to live in is so much cheaper than Santa Monica. Dude talking like Amsterdam is somewhere in Mississippi.

And again, stop lying with your "low-end was $110M"

This is what you said:

But even reducing it to 100,000 and 250 employees is over 110M

This doesn’t even include all the external costs (partners at other studios).
This isn't even a low-end figure, this is an hypothetical impossible scenario because the studios didn't have 250 employees and you even said it wasn't factoring every cost so it would have been much higher. This is you trying to prove $110M is impossible.
Please learn to read before running your mouth.
Stop lying. You were wrong. You even said your formula was "ballpark" and when we debunked it, you steadfastly held onto it. $50M for HZD in 2017 and suddenly, GOWR is $270M because of inflation? Yeah, no. It doesn't work like that.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The uncharted (2009, CA) numbers aren't comparable to GG (2017-2022, EU).

Different cities. Different times. You are comparing 2009 income levels to 2017-2023? That makes zero sense. Inflation is a real thing.
they are based out of amsterdam. they are already inflated. these people get more benefits than we can possibly imagine. if anything, costs are higher in Amsterdam than in Los Angeles.

and TLOU came out in 2013. with a budget of $20 million. Horizon had a budget of $47 million in 2017. but that game came out just 3 years after KZSF when Guerrila was a much smaller studio. Again $22 million to run a studio of 400 employees sounds about right. higher than before, but not 4-5x higher we were discussing in the other thread. if anything, i recall telling you that i will concede that the costs have doubled. but not quadrupled or like your formula showed quintupled.
 
That came out later? Dude, it came out a couple of months later. You're talking as if they had been made 30 years apart. There's like 9 months separating them. It'll barely affect the budget.

Also, yeah, everybody knows that Amsterdam, one of the most expensive cities to live in is so much cheaper than Santa Monica. Dude talking like Amsterdam is somewhere in Mississippi.

And again, stop lying with your "low-end was $110M"

This is what you said:


This isn't even a low-end figure, this is an hypothetical impossible scenario because the studios didn't have 250 employees and you even said it wasn't factoring every cost so it would have been much higher. This is you trying to prove $110M is impossible.

Stop lying. You were wrong. You even said your formula was "ballpark" and when we debunked it, you steadfastly held onto it. $50M for HZD in 2017 and suddenly, GOWR is $270M? Yeah, no.

Nearly 8 months can make a big difference in labor costs especially in a year where CPI is 10%+

But the bigger difference is location. SSM is insanely expensive. Both from a labor cost and facility cost. Much moreso than GG's location in Amsterdam. Amsterdam is not as expensive as SSM, not even close, even if it is expensive for an EU location.

This isn't even a low-end figure, this is an hypothetical impossible scenario because the studios didn't have 250 employees and you even said it wasn't factoring every cost so it would have been much higher. This is you trying to prove $110M is impossible.

That's correct. That's why GoW:R didn't cost 110M like HFW "allegedly" did. Can you read? My comment was for GOW:R, not HFW. Please. Read.

And here's what YOU SAID:


With marketing, sure. For just production? Unlikely. A production cost between $80-100 sounds plausible. With another $100M for marketing. Total plus marketing might be $150M-200M.

Aint no way in hell GoW:R only cost 80-100M to produce when this article says HFW cost 110M. So yeah, your figure was completely wrong. My figure was for an entirely separate game and more accurate than the numbers you threw out.
 
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. if anything, costs are higher in Amsterdam than in Los Angeles.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livi...eles,+CA&country2=Netherlands&city2=Amsterdam

Wrong.

You would need around 5,156.7$ (4,811.9€) in Amsterdam to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 6,900.0$ in Los Angeles, CA (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Cost of Living Plus Rent Index to compare cost of living. This assumes net earnings (after income tax). You can change the amount in this calculation.

That's a 33% difference in cost, and the wages are likely significantly lower to account for that geographical difference.
 

Gaiff

Gold Member
they are based out of amsterdam. they are already inflated. these people get more benefits than we can possibly imagine. if anything, costs are higher in Amsterdam than in Los Angeles.

and TLOU came out in 2013. with a budget of $20 million. Horizon had a budget of $47 million in 2017. but that game came out just 3 years after KZSF when Guerrila was a much smaller studio. Again $22 million to run a studio of 400 employees sounds about right. higher than before, but not 4-5x higher we were discussing in the other thread. if anything, i recall telling you that i will concede that the costs have doubled. but not quadrupled or like your formula showed quintupled.
That's exactly what we told him in the other thread. His numbers don't add up. AAA games are expensive. Sony exclusive probably cost in the $100M ballpark for production alone. Double that if you factor in marketing. That's an insane amount of money but $200M+?
Nearly 8 months can make a big difference in labor costs especially in a year where CPI is 10%+
Lol, sure thing buddy. You attempted the same argument with a game that was released in 2017 and got spanked.
But the bigger difference is location. SSM is insanely expensive. Both from a labor cost and facility cost. Much moreso than GG's location in Amsterdam. Amsterdam is not as expensive as SSM, not even close, even if it is expensive for an EU location.
And you know this how? Santa Monica is outside of LA. Guerilla Games is in Amsterdam proper and Amsterdam is one of the most expensive places in the EU and has a million more benefits than Los Angeles.
That's correct. That's why GoW:R didn't cost 110M like HFW "allegedly" did. Can you read? My comment was for GOW:R, not HFW. Please. Read.
Considering Horizon Forbidden West is a much larger game than GOWR with a lot less reused assets? I beg to differ.
And here's what YOU SAID:

Aint no way in hell GoW:R only cost 80-100M to produce when this article says HFW cost 110M. So yeah, your figure was completely wrong. My figure was for an entirely separate game and more accurate than the numbers you threw out.
No, figure was off by $10M and I said "plausible". Your figure was off by over $50M. Stop lying.
 

Gaiff

Gold Member
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=Los+Angeles,+CA&country2=Netherlands&city2=Amsterdam

Wrong.

You would need around 5,156.7$ (4,811.9€) in Amsterdam to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 6,900.0$ in Los Angeles, CA (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Cost of Living Plus Rent Index to compare cost of living. This assumes net earnings (after income tax). You can change the amount in this calculation.

That's a 33% difference in cost, and the wages are likely significantly lower to account for that geographical difference.
 
That's exactly what we told him in the other thread. His numbers don't add up. AAA games are expensive. Sony exclusive probably cost in the $100M ballpark for production alone. Double that if you factor in marketing. That's an insane amount of money but $200M+?

Lol, sure thing buddy. You attempted the same argument with a game that was released in 2017 and got spanked.

And you know this how? Santa Monica is outside of LA. Guerilla Games is in Amsterdam proper and Amsterdam is one of the most expensive places in the EU and has a million more benefits than Los Angeles.

Considering Horizon Forbidden West is a much larger game than GOWR with a lot less reused assets? I beg to differ.

No, figure was off by $10M and I said "plausible". Your figure was off by over $50M. Stop lying.


Only $80-100M for GoW:R :LOL:

My figure was "within range" FOR A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME. READ!!!!!

Santa Monica is close enough to LA, it's insanely expensive. Quit spinning the fact that it's not. Wages are substantially less in Amsterdam. Real estate is substantially less in Amsterdam. At the end of the day we are just speculating, but at least mine has some semblance of realism. Yours are completely low-balled.
 
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Gaiff

Gold Member
Only $80-100M for GoW:R :LOL:

My figure was "within range" FOR A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME. READ!!!!!

Santa Monica is close enough to LA, it's insanely expensive. Quit spinning the fact that it's not. Wages are substantially less in Amsterdam. Real estate is substantially less in Amsterdam. At the end of the day we are just speculating, but at least mine has some semblance of realism. Yours are completely low-balled.
Considering that HFW cost only $110M and they're both AAA games? It's much, much closer to the truth than $270M which is moronic.

You also tried to use a formula that we know doesn't even come close to working but you're just going to keep stonewalling.
 

yurinka

Member
80-100M was what AAA did cost a generation ago, not now. They are several times more expensive now specially when counting the whole project including marketing etc.

and TLOU came out in 2013. with a budget of $20 million. Horizon had a budget of $47 million in 2017. but that game came out just 3 years after KZSF when Guerrila was a much smaller studio. Again $22 million to run a studio of 400 employees sounds about right. higher than before, but not 4-5x higher we were discussing in the other thread. if anything, i recall telling you that i will concede that the costs have doubled. but not quadrupled or like your formula showed quintupled.
The only number that is somewhat close to reality is that their studio has around 400 people. No, TLOU didn't have a $20M budget at all. And no, Horizon didn't have a $47M budget at all. In addition to this, you have to consider that the lead development studio only has around 10% of the people who works in a AAA game, and that since a generation or two ago the marketing budget of AAA games are aprox. as big as their development budgets.

HZD had 6 years of development (2011-2017, they started to work on it after Killzone 3 and did put the whole studio to work on it in 2013 when they released Killzone Shadowfall). HFW had 4 years of development (and 2018-2022), like TLOU (2009-2013).
 
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Gaiff

Gold Member
80-100M was what AAA did cost a generation ago, not now. They are several times more expensive now specially when counting the whole project including marketing etc.
$80-100M is production cost alone. Double that and add some with marketing. That's the ballpark for most AAA games. Big ones like Cyberpunk are very likely $200M+ in production alone but these are the exception, not the norm.
 
Considering that HFW cost only $110M and they're both AAA games? It's much, much closer to the truth than $270M which is moronic.

You also tried to use a formula that we know doesn't even come close to working but you're just going to keep stonewalling.

I used a range of 110M - 270M based on very vague assumptions that I have no specific data about and can't make any specific claims.

I later said 150M+ would be pretty reasonable. Again, for GoW:R (now HFW).

Operational costs in SSM vs Amsterdam are likely 33% higher per employee. So even without knowing exact employment figures, if the two studios are roughly the same then 110 X 1.33 = 146M. Pretty close to my 150M figure.

That's a hell of a lot more realistic than 80M. That number is ancient.
 
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Gaiff

Gold Member
I used a range of 110M - 270M based on very vague assumptions that I have no specific data about and can't make any specific claims.

I later said 150M+ would be pretty reasonable. Again, for GoW:R (now HFW).

Operational costs in SSM vs Amsterdam are likely 33% higher per employee. So even without knowing exact employment figured, is the two studios are roughly the same then 110 X 1.33 = 146M. Pretty close to my 150M figure.

That's a hell of a lot more realistic than 80M. That number is ancient.
Your big Shaq-tier math gave us $150M for HZD so we can pretty much throw it away.

$100M for GOWR is entirely plausible, with another $100-150M for marketing. It's unknown whether it cost more or less to produce than HFW. It's a significantly smaller game and was allegedly slightly quicker to produce, coming out in 55 months vs 60 months for HFW. I can go with the $150M but $200M+ is just no.
 
Your big Shaq-tier math gave us $150M for HZD so we can pretty much throw it away.

Nope. Because you can't read for the 15th time. I never talked about HZD.

$100M for GOWR is entirely plausible

Too bad you claimed 80-100M and HFW cost 110 according to this article. You actually think GoW:R was LESS than HFW to produce? Not a chance given the labor/real estate cost.
 
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Sleepwalker

Gold Member
Five years to develop a safe sequel is nuts. they wouldve halved the costs if they had limited the scope and shipped it in 2.5 years like most of these sequels used to take.

I have no idea why the game had almost a hundred forgettable side quests featuring fully mocapped dialogues trees. For something that takes 5 years, i wouldve expected a ground up reboot like GOW 2018.

Sony studios need to go back to 15 hour campaigns with maybe another 15 hours of additional content. 50 hour campaigns with another 50 hours of meandering content is not the way to go. Financially its simply not sustainable. Their best studios simply cant take 5 years to make one game. thats one game per gen.

So much truth in this post, give me more focused experiences. I don't want to spend 2 months in horizons world doing meaningless crafting and side quests, I wanna spend a couple weeks with it and hopefully get a satisfying story and good gameplay moments out of it.

Then you can do a story DLC 6 months to a year later and focus on another entry afterwards.
 
I think most developers mistakenly think that "hours of content = better sales". That may be somewhat true, but it really depends on the quality of the content. The side stuff in BOTW or Elden Ring is good and worth it, but not the side content in HFW.

I agree that if the side content is not up to snuff I'd rather they just focus on a 15-25 hour single player campaign alone.

There's a lot of wasted dev effort on HFW that would have been better spent elsewhere or releasing the game sooner. Mind you, I still enjoyed the game a great deal, but quickly found anything other than the main quest to be not worth my time.
Personally I thought the side quests and characters were better than Aloy and the main storyline. I really loved her character in the first game, in the second one she just seemed annoyed with almost everyone she talked to. It also launched before it was ready, the performance mode had visual issues for months but now it's a great way to play the game and you don't feel like you are losing much visually. They also didn't improve the melee at all, the lack of lock on really hurts the combat in the game.
 

Gaiff

Gold Member
Nope. Because you can't read for the 15th time. I never talked about HZD.
You showed a formula and we used it to calculate HZD's budget and it was way off the mark. When we told you HZD was just $50M, you didn't even believe us until we showed you the link.
Too bad you claimed 80-100M and HFW cost 110 according to this article. You actually think GoW:R was LESS than HFW to produce? Not a chance given the labor/real estate cost.
Considering it's a much bigger and longer game than GOWR and that it took longer to produce? It certainly isn't impossible. I can see $150M even though it seems too high but not those $270M figures.
 
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You showed a formula and we used it to calculate HZD's budget and it was way off the mark. When we told you HZD was just $50M, you didn't even believe us until we showed you the link.

The formula was for SSM, not GG, and based on completely different timelines. So, sorry, you are now resorting to lying/putting words in people's mouths.
 

yurinka

Member
$80-100M is production cost alone. Double that and add some with marketing. That's the ballpark for most AAA games. Big ones like Cyberpunk are very likely $200M+ in production alone but these are the exception, not the norm.
The budget of games like Horizon Forbidden West, God of War Ragnarok or The Last of Us are way higher than the Cyberpunk 2077 one.

First because the salaries, office costs etc. in California, Amsterdam, etc. are way more expensive than in Poland. And second because a top publisher like Sony spends way more money on corporate and marketing than CD Projekt.

$80-100M was the cost of that PS3-PS4 crossgen AAA games like Watchdogs 1 had. They are way more expensive now.

You showed a formula and we used it to calculate HZD's budget and it was way off the mark. When we told you HZD was just $50M, you didn't even believe us until we showed you the link.
HZD took 6 years, it's lead studio is from Amsterdam and has way over 2000 people on its game credits. It's totally impossible to develop that with $50M. Even if you don't count all the marketing, corporate, Q&A, PR, localization etc. costs.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nope. Because you can't read for the 15th time. I never talked about HZD.



Too bad you claimed 80-100M and HFW cost 110 according to this article. You actually think GoW:R was LESS than HFW to produce? Not a chance given the labor/real estate cost.
It will be interesting to see the GOW dev costs given your cost of living info. GOW was done in 4.5 years. HFW took longer. SSM was a much smaller studio than GG up until very recently, and Cory had his own team working on the new IP the entire time. Cory alone probably costs a million a year. I think they both probably cost $100 million.
 
Considering it's a much bigger and longer game than GOWR and that it took longer to produce? It certainly isn't impossible. I can see $150M even though it seems too high but not those $270M figures.

It's not bigger. They are about the same. HFW has a bigger open world, that's it. SSM put a lot of work into their side content, cinematics, and bosses/enemy variety. They are both big games.
 
It will be interesting to see the GOW dev costs given your cost of living info. GOW was done in 4.5 years. HFW took longer. SSM was a much smaller studio than GG up until very recently, and Cory had his own team working on the new IP the entire time. Cory alone probably costs a million a year. I think they both probably cost $100 million.

Who knows if we will ever get real data on GoWR but I think it's more expensive than HFW. I don't think SSM was much smaller, and I doubt Cory's team was big until Ragnarok wrapped up.
 
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