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Horizon Forbidden West has the worst intro/tutorial since Zelda Twilight Princess

Keihart

Member
People buying story driven rpgs and being annoyed by too much talks or connecting with sidecharacters is like buying a beat em up and being sad that you have combos.

Sometimes i have to check if i'm inside gaf or a forum about nails polish...
Nothing like a Persona intro tho, hours upon hours of characters talking with a battle or two, maybe a little walk if you are lucky.

I guess the difference is if the story is actually entertaining, sadly Horizon did not get much better in that deparment than the first, characters feel just as or maybe even more bland than before.
 

tmlDan

Member
I disagree, stop making shitty threads....there have been so many lately.

The intro is great and gets you settled into a massive game.
 
Yeah, would have been much better to instantly drop you in a hole where the only way you can get out is to tap 3 times on a wall, spin around, and whisper "my heart beats blood, stained is my life, ooga booga my noodle" to the random npc that spawns randomly somewhere after you collect the three shards hidden around in the dark. Mess any of it up, and your game uninstalls after punching you in the dick for being a noob.
 
The beginning area is like Witcher 3, where you learn the game mechanics in a small open area before it opens to the whole world. Not sure what linear stuff they are talking about nor is that section 6-8 hours long. Maybe 1 hour to 2 if your doing all the side stuff, which you can skip and can go back to do if desired, again just like Witcher 3.
 

Isa

Member
I actually kind of agree, I dropped the game myself early on. Completely failed to grab me. Its heavy handed intro treats the gamer like they've never played a game before and coupled with the bland characters and weird directing problems and ugly art style ripped me out of any possible immersion. I eventually stopped playing after my gf walked out of the room with all the odd camera switching during cutscenes. The camera would switch to a new angle or character and blurry textures would load and backround pop-in would distract not to mention the eyes my god the creepy faces, expressions and eyes.

I'm glad people have enjoyed the game, genuinely I am. But so far every big release for my PS5 has been a dud for me. I do love my other third party stuff though. Its just a shame that people can't express their grievances without some insult from people who clearly enjoyed themselves. Different strokes and all that. I've definitely learned as of late that I need to wait on many western game purchases as they don't much appeal to me, and stick with games that have stories and characters I find appealing. I even dropped Elden Ring, I was having a blast for the first 50+ hrs, and then it just started to seem so repetitive in an open world with the least amount of Lore in Soulsborne history. I greatly dislike the lore that's there, and I'd rather have a more structured linear experience like most games of that ilk. I'm not saying they're bad, I think its a great game but both of these turned me off big time. I will say I like how From just puts the player in the game with minor hints and tips. Thank you, don't insult me. In the end its all just personal preference and everyone is entitled to their opinion, none more valid than the other. For some people it worked and they enjoyed the setup, for me it failed to click. Maybe one day I'll go back.
 

Swift_Star

Member
I actually kind of agree, I dropped the game myself early on. Completely failed to grab me. Its heavy handed intro treats the gamer like they've never played a game before and coupled with the bland characters and weird directing problems and ugly art style ripped me out of any possible immersion. I eventually stopped playing after my gf walked out of the room with all the odd camera switching during cutscenes. The camera would switch to a new angle or character and blurry textures would load and backround pop-in would distract not to mention the eyes my god the creepy faces, expressions and eyes.

I'm glad people have enjoyed the game, genuinely I am. But so far every big release for my PS5 has been a dud for me. I do love my other third party stuff though. Its just a shame that people can't express their grievances without some insult from people who clearly enjoyed themselves. Different strokes and all that. I've definitely learned as of late that I need to wait on many western game purchases as they don't much appeal to me, and stick with games that have stories and characters I find appealing. I even dropped Elden Ring, I was having a blast for the first 50+ hrs, and then it just started to seem so repetitive in an open world with the least amount of Lore in Soulsborne history. I greatly dislike the lore that's there, and I'd rather have a more structured linear experience like most games of that ilk. I'm not saying they're bad, I think its a great game but both of these turned me off big time. I will say I like how From just puts the player in the game with minor hints and tips. Thank you, don't insult me. In the end its all just personal preference and everyone is entitled to their opinion, none more valid than the other. For some people it worked and they enjoyed the setup, for me it failed to click. Maybe one day I'll go back.
Stopped reading at ugly artstyle.
You people need to get better at trolling.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Nothing like a Persona intro tho, hours upon hours of characters talking with a battle or two, maybe a little walk if you are lucky.

I guess the difference is if the story is actually entertaining, sadly Horizon did not get much better in that deparment than the first, characters feel just as or maybe even more bland than before.
The story not being interesting for you is another matter tho.

Guerrilla made the second game for people who liked the story, tribes etc. from the first game so they doubled down with the lore\exposition and there is exactly zero problem in having all of that in a damn STORY DRIVEN RPG.

To me the scifi in horizon is way more interesting that your anime plot in persona, although i liked p5 well enough.

Do people have problem with yakuza games aswell? those games make horizon look like a game with 2 line of dialogues, and people (like me) still loves them.

If people don't like cutscene, press the A button and jump the damn cutscene ffs, or avoid to buy a game like this entirely.
 
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Swift_Star

Member
Nothing like a Persona intro tho, hours upon hours of characters talking with a battle or two, maybe a little walk if you are lucky.

I guess the difference is if the story is actually entertaining, sadly Horizon did not get much better in that deparment than the first, characters feel just as or maybe even more bland than before.
That’s a you problem.
 

Keihart

Member
The story not being interesting for you is another matter tho.

Guerrilla made the second game for people who liked the story, tribes etc. from the first game so they doubled down with the lore\exposition and there is exactly zero problem in having all of that in a damn STORY DRIVEN RPG.

To me the scifi in horizon is way more interesting that your anime plot in persona, although i liked p5 well enough.

Do people have problem with yakuza games aswell? those games make horizon look like a game with 2 line of dialogues, and people (like me) still loves them.

If people don't like cutscene, press the A button and jump the damn cutscene ffs, or avoid to buy a game like this entirely.
It's definetly even more story heavy on the intro on Persona games and Yakuza than Horizon, those games have some long ass intros that also last hours.

I just think they are better written character wise, everyone seems like a robot pretending to be human on horizon and im not talking about the animations.

But then again, it was just like that on the first game so i guess if someone was ok with it then it would be no problem now.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
It's definetly even more story heavy on the intro on Persona games and Yakuza than Horizon, those games have some long ass intros that also last hours.

I just think they are better written character wise, everyone seems like a robot pretending to be human on horizon and im not talking about the animations.

But then again, it was just like that on the first game so i guess if someone was ok with it then it would be no problem now.
Yeah character writing is not that great, i can go with that (with some exceptions), villains were pretty terrible this time for example, maybe not terrible but terribly under-developed.

What i mostly like is the lore for tribes and anything scifi related.
 
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Kuranghi

Gold Member
Us to OP:

karate push GIF
 
It's long, for sure.

The primary problem is the justification for its length - it presupposes the story is bigger than it is. I mean....we're resolving labor disputes? Really? Why? Because the universe is so brilliantly drawn? No, it's merely fine, and spending many hours getting immersed in "merely fine" is not a great use of the player's time.

It's weird - I really enjoyed my time in the Daunt, but by the end of the game, it felt completely inconsequential in a game that became far too long.
 

SlimySnake

Gold Member
I actually kind of agree, I dropped the game myself early on. Completely failed to grab me. Its heavy handed intro treats the gamer like they've never played a game before and coupled with the bland characters and weird directing problems and ugly art style ripped me out of any possible immersion. I eventually stopped playing after my gf walked out of the room with all the odd camera switching during cutscenes. The camera would switch to a new angle or character and blurry textures would load and backround pop-in would distract not to mention the eyes my god the creepy faces, expressions and eyes.

I'm glad people have enjoyed the game, genuinely I am. But so far every big release for my PS5 has been a dud for me. I do love my other third party stuff though. Its just a shame that people can't express their grievances without some insult from people who clearly enjoyed themselves. Different strokes and all that. I've definitely learned as of late that I need to wait on many western game purchases as they don't much appeal to me, and stick with games that have stories and characters I find appealing. I even dropped Elden Ring, I was having a blast for the first 50+ hrs, and then it just started to seem so repetitive in an open world with the least amount of Lore in Soulsborne history. I greatly dislike the lore that's there, and I'd rather have a more structured linear experience like most games of that ilk. I'm not saying they're bad, I think its a great game but both of these turned me off big time. I will say I like how From just puts the player in the game with minor hints and tips. Thank you, don't insult me. In the end its all just personal preference and everyone is entitled to their opinion, none more valid than the other. For some people it worked and they enjoyed the setup, for me it failed to click. Maybe one day I'll go back.
The intro level with Varl in that base was really really bad, but I kinda liked Chainscrape. It's honestly one of the best looking areas in the game. But the quests are just barebones which is actually fairly indicative of the quality of the side quests in the rest of the game when it does open up. Great production values. Fully animated and choregraphed dialogue trees, but bland character and forgettable side quests. It's like why waste so much time on mocapping all of this stuff and then create such forgettable missions?

100% agreed on Elden Rings. It feels so basic. I miss the carefully crafted dungeons and castles. This feels like a ubisoft game. I have only played the game for 8 hours but i have fought those knights like 200 times already like come on. Is this what critics want? Random encounter generator? Forgettable mini bosses? Slow as fuck progression? Lack of rewarding systems because god forbid you get OP in this 100 hour game in the first 10-15 hours.

I am so done with modern gaming. Nothing feels like it is worth my time atm. None of it is bad but everything is so predictable and boring.
 
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Nothing like a Persona intro tho, hours upon hours of characters talking with a battle or two, maybe a little walk if you are lucky.

I guess the difference is if the story is actually entertaining, sadly Horizon did not get much better in that deparment than the first, characters feel just as or maybe even more bland than before.

Imagine saying generic anime tropes are better than actual human emotions and this is coming from someone who thinks p5r is one of the best games ever. Cmon, try harder at trolling.
 

Smasher89

Member
I kinda disagree, it feels more like a post credits segment like it were from the first game, and then when she gets to the west, thats where the game start, really enjoyed it and getting a "late closure" with the first game in a sencem great and feel like more game should do similar stuff if they are direct sequels just like this is.
 

Camreezie

Member
Twilight Princess's introduction is much more long winded. Stupid complaint, what about god of war 2018s introductory two hours?
 
Anyone remember that intro to Twilight Princess? You know hours of herding and finding stuff in the village?

Well Horizon Forbidden West is even worse and has 6-8 HOURS of crap to wade thrrough before the actual game begins (and you arrive in the actual "Forbidden West")

6 hours of linear, boring, chatty (omfg the chatter) doing chores/tutorials. Oh and SOCIALIZING with Aloys hip and cool friends - easily the worst part.

After 6 hours the game actually opens up and "begins" - the story even has a nice starting point here. It feels like the other 6 hours were tacked on afterwards to "onboard" new players

I was about to give up - it was a real pain to play until it starts "for real"

Now - I really hope the intro is not an indication for the rest of the game

Why did it take you 6 hours to reach Chainscrape/The Duant? Were you just goofing off? I've not played the first game, don't even play a lot of open-world games TBH and had to learn the controls along the way of the intro but only took a couple hours at most and that was after failing some of the sections a few times and the snake boss once.

Most of the dialogue in that section with Varl, you can just speed past it and carry on freely, it's only the hologram sections and certain setpiece set-ups that eat up a bit of time. You don't even meet any of Aloy's other friends until you get past the snake boss (and the section immediately after doesn't even have that many you need to speak to before going to the Forbidden West).

So there's almost no way those two sections take you 6-8 hours, even while trying to get everything, unless you're purposely moving like a slug or kept getting lost. Either that, or you struggled multiple times on the very beginning stuff. Something doesn't really add up with your claims and the time it supposedly took to get through it, unless you playing on the hardest difficulty. Even then I struggle seeing how that'd make the opening bit 6-8 hours to get through.

It's not 8 hours. The linear intro he's talking about is less than 2h and the other area before the west opens is open and you are basically free to approach and play it as you like with the exception of course that the west is being locked for story reasons. It's exactly like that first area in Witcher 3. Don't listen to his insane ramblings.

This. There's no way in hell the parts before getting to Forbidden West (which as you said is still gated for story reasons, but otherwise can do almost everything in the sections in any order) takes 6-8 hours, even on hardest difficulty.

Even fully exploring the settlement after the snake boss fight (but before going to the Forbidden West) is like an hour at most, maybe a bit more on top if you want to be thorough, and it's not like there's much to explore there (compared to what you get starting right after).

So OP either died a lot or went at an absolute snail's pace to drag out those first two parts to 6-8 hours. You literally have to actively do that on purpose.
 
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jigglet

Member
Yikes. That scares me off Horizon. If you liked TP's intro then I get why you like HFW. But I loathed what Zelda became between Windwaker and Skyward - handholdy as fuck with intros that absolutely shat all over replayability. Every time I thought about replaying Skyward and TP all I can think of is the intro and I nope the fuck out.
 

Keihart

Member
Imagine saying generic anime tropes are better than actual human emotions and this is coming from someone who thinks p5r is one of the best games ever. Cmon, try harder at trolling.
2 things fellow poster.
First, you obviously have no idea what a troll is, maybe look it up on the urban dictionary or something.
Second, describing Horizon's characters writing and animations as "actual human emotions" makes me think you probably find Mark Zukenberg the most charismatic person on the planet, wich is kind of unsettling.

Sipping Mark Zuckerberg GIF


Anyway, game on! i'm happy you enjoy Horizon's writing and characterization, shit taste or not, it is a net positive for you.
 
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2 things fellow poster.
First, you obviously have no idea what a troll is, maybe look it up on the urban dictionary or something.
Second, describing Horizon's characters writing and animations as "actual human emotions" makes me think you probably find Mark Zukenberg the most charismatic person on the planet, wich is kind of unsettling.

Sipping Mark Zuckerberg GIF


Anyway, game on! i'm happy you enjoy Horizon's writing and characterization, shit taste or not, it is a net positive for you.
I assumed you were a troll because no one is this fucking dumb but I guess you confimed it for me, thank you. Maybe u shouldnt play games blindly or skip dialogues and then one day you can come back to this ridiculous reply and see what a stupid thing you just said. Until then have a good day.
 
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Shifty

Gold Member
So it's not like the first one where Aloy does a literal dodge roll through puberty and is immediately ready for high adventure?
 

KungFucius

Member
This complaint is fucking stupid. The tutorial part was 1 hour. The next several hours were a restricted region you could explore and find shit to do or rush through. So fucking what? The whole point of these things is to wow you when you get total freedom. It's like Limgrave in Elden Ring just without the way to avoid Stormgrave to find random shit to do. But I suppose that approach to story is genius and Horizon is shit because ER can do nothing wrong and random exploration that has nothing to do with the story path being constrained vs not constrained is somehow vastly different when the story is still constrained.
 

Hestar69

Member
I just bought this game on the ps4 (couldn't wait anymore to get a ps5) hopefully the game start isn't that slow and it runs good on my airpline
 
Horizon is...le bad!

I liked Zero Dawn. I got about halfway and started rushing through it to finish it though. Haven't played the new one yet, probably won't either - I'd like to keep the good memories of the first one.

Twilight Princess actually turned out to be a great game after that long ass intro. (Skyward Sword didn't)
 
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SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
What a stupid thing to complain about.
As someone who hasn't played Horizon, but always hated the tedious intro of Twilight Princess, I have to ask this: Why?
Why is it stupid to complain about having to sit through hours of filler bullshit, boring dialogue and hundreds of text boxes explaining shit a toddler would figure out? Just let me play the game goddammit.
That's legit criticism. Pacing is something important, you know. Especially when the games are long and story driven, a good pacing is incredibly important for the enjoyment of a game.
 
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SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
witcher 3 and botw also have a large intro area
BOTW intro can be finished in about 30 minutes(when you know what you're doing). Then you can go wherever you want. Also, the way it teaches you the game's mechanics and intricacies is much more organic than in games like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword (which both are starting out as slogs). It lets you figure out things on your own. You don't need to do unnecessary busy work and talk to every character, just to get going. It's fun from the get-go because even during the introduction phase it lets you play the game. It teaches you most things through gameplay and by trying it out yourself. So it's not only shorter but also much more enjoyable and not nearly as tedious. It just tosses you into the game without much explanation. It expects you to figure it out on your own. It's almost as effective as the introduction in the original Zelda on NES, and for a modern AAA open world game that's very unusual.

I can't compare it with Horizon, because I haven't played it yet. Compared to TW and SS though, the intro is just so much better.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
As someone who hasn't played Horizon, but always hated the tedious intro of Twilight Princess, I have to ask this: Why?
Why is it stupid to complain about having to sit through hours of filler bullshit, boring dialogue and hundreds of text boxes explaining shit a toddler would figure out? Just let me play the game goddammit.
That's legit criticism. Pacing is something important, you know. Especially when the games are long and story driven, a good pacing is incredibly important for the enjoyment of a game.

It depends. If someone is forced to play through an intro area for 6 hours then sure, that's a legit complaint. There are only four main missions in the initial area of HFW before the world opens up. That doesn't take 6 hours. Not even close.

Horizon is...le bad!

I liked Zero Dawn. I got about halfway and started rushing through it to finish it though. Haven't played the new one yet, probably won't either - I'd like to keep the good memories of the first one.

Then how are you saying Horizon is bad? One game you like. The other you haven't played.
 
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SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
Yikes. That scares me off Horizon. If you liked TP's intro then I get why you like HFW. But I loathed what Zelda became between Windwaker and Skyward - handholdy as fuck with intros that absolutely shat all over replayability. Every time I thought about replaying Skyward and TP all I can think of is the intro and I nope the fuck out.
Replayability is key. In the meanwhile you finish TP and SS slog of an intro you are already deep into OoT.
It depends. If someone is forced to play through an intro area for 6 hours then sure, that's a legit complaint. There are only four main missions in the initial area of HFW before the world opens up. That doesn't take 6 hours. Not even close.
Even the 2-3 hours of Twilight Princess are way too much and with each subsequent playthrough it gets worse and worse. All the busy work and aimless walking through the village till the game finally starts. Just compare the time until you hit the first dungeon in TW with OoT.

OoT = 20 minutes
TW = up to 3 hours

...and you don't even do anything of importance. It's so artificially stretched.
 

jigglet

Member
Replayability is key. In the meanwhile you finish TP and SS slog of an intro you are already deep into OoT.

Even the 2-3 hours of Twilight Princess are way too much and with each subsequent playthrough it gets worse and worse. All the busy work and aimless walking through the village till the game finally starts. Just compare the time until you hit the first dungeon in TW with OoT.

OoT = 20 minutes
TW = up to 3 hours

...and you don't even do anything of importance. It's so artificially stretched.

OoT was perfect. Hey look here to lock on! Hey go find your shield! Hey this is how you crawl through a hole! Fucking DONE. Cut the shit, let me play.
 
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SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
OoT was perfect. Hey look here to lock on! Hey go find your shield! Hey this is how you crawl through a hole! Fucking DONE. Cut the shit, let me play.
I mean, even though MM and especially WW also take a little till they fully pick up steam, unlike TW they still feel like you're progressing at a steady pace. In the first few minutes of MM your horse gets stolen and that's it - the game starts and you can play. It takes longer until you reach the first dungeon in MM compared to OoT, but it's still a much smoother introduction than TW and SS. You don't have to feed a cat, you don't have to bring goats into the barn, you don't have to collect bugs, you don't have to talk to every NPC in sight etc.
 
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