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Horizon Forbidden West - New patch introducing Variable Refresh Rate (VRR), High Refresh Rate (HFR) and our new "Balanced" Graphics Mode supporting 40

assurdum

Banned
Good news, feels good to see VRR become an important feature of the gaming landscape just like I knew it would.
jurassic park deal with it GIF
 
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Arioco

Member
Don't think I've seen anyone answer this before but can the PS5 output 120hz to an HDMI 2.0 display or lower? Like maybe at 1080p 120hz?

Yes, of course. If your TV doesn't support 4K at 120 Hz but it does support 1440p/1080p at 120 Hz you can play at 1080p@120fps. No problem. I don't think it's worth the hit, but the option is there.

It was never the standard. Only when the 7th gen dragged on longer than it should have and the 8th gen was underpowered. 2D games were always 60fps and during the PS2 era 60fps was one of the major factors in selling that next gen leap over the early days of 3D.

Sorry, that's not true. 60 fps was and still is the standard for 2D games, but ever since the 3D arrived 60 fps has never been the standard. In fact most games ran terribly and well bellow 30 fps. On PSX there are 110 games out of 4.105 that targeted 60 fps (and even fewer hit that target). On N64 it was even worse and only 9 titles that I know of (out of almost 400) targeted 60 fps, but most games ran very poorly, things like 10 or 15 fps were quite common. . On the next gen things were better but still far from 60 fps as standar. A few great looking games were 60 fps (Devil May Cry, Metroid, MGS2) but most targeted 30 fps: Metal Gear Solid 3, GTA series, Super Mario Sunshine, Zelda (both) , Halo 1 and 2, Final Fantasy X, XI and XII, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Resident Evil (all of them), Silent Hill (all of them again), Okami, Dragon Quest, Persona saga, Princesa of Persia, both Pikmin, ... you name it. Contrary to popular belief things looked up in the next couple of generations, we just started caring about 60 fps. This is the first gen where most games are 60 fps. Almost every game, in fact. Something we hadn't ever seen in any previous generation.
 
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Kilau

Gold Member
Interested to check out how 40fps looks but I’ll probably stay 60 now with improved DRS.
 

ParaSeoul

Member
Yes, of course. If your TV doesn't support 4K at 120 Hz but it does support 1440p/1080p at 120 Hz you can play at 1080p@120fps. No problem. I don't think it's worth the hit, but the option is there.
Yeah I have a C1,was just curious.
 

danklord

Neo Member
Miles Morales with VRR was so game-changing visually that I stopped playing any first-party PS5 game until they have it. Stoked to jump in again on this... seems like it was worth the wait!
 
And the devs wonder why people hold off on buying these games at launch. It's because they're half baked, missing tons of features and buggy.

Everyone praises Guerrilla for working so hard on the game and giving us plenty of updates, but this game was JUST FINALLY made to look good at 60fps and new game + was just added as well, and now VRR (yes I know PS5 didn't have VRR when HFW launched, but still).

Why does Guerrilla get a free pass when other devs are ridiculed for fixing their game after the fact? Everything should be well fleshed out before the game comes out, including how it looks and runs. Even Guardians of the Galaxy launched without a Ray Tracing mode, so the people who played it early got a sub-par experience and they're not likely to want to go back and re-play it again so soon just because there are some reflections now.

I'm tired of this crap and I'm tired of letting them do it to us.

I'm not buying any game brand new anymore. I'll wait and get it used after some other moron plays it early with all the missing features and graphical effects.
 

ChiefDada

Member
And the devs wonder why people hold off on buying these games at launch. It's because they're half baked, missing tons of features and buggy.

Everyone praises Guerrilla for working so hard on the game and giving us plenty of updates, but this game was JUST FINALLY made to look good at 60fps and new game + was just added as well, and now VRR (yes I know PS5 didn't have VRR when HFW launched, but still).

Why does Guerrilla get a free pass when other devs are ridiculed for fixing their game after the fact? Everything should be well fleshed out before the game comes out, including how it looks and runs. Even Guardians of the Galaxy launched without a Ray Tracing mode, so the people who played it early got a sub-par experience and they're not likely to want to go back and re-play it again so soon just because there are some reflections now.

I'm tired of this crap and I'm tired of letting them do it to us.

I'm not buying any game brand new anymore. I'll wait and get it used after some other moron plays it early with all the missing features and graphical effects.

FOMO gonna get ya!
Episode 2 Goodbye GIF by The Office
 

p_xavier

Authorized Fister
I don't care how much power a console has, there's never going please everyone. There are still going to be people saying... we'll, they could've done more if they just optimized it better.
More about the HDMI that doesn't support 48gbps and only 32. The chroma goes down because of that as better explained by another poster.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
More about the HDMI that doesn't support 48gbps and only 32. The chroma goes down because of that as better explained by another poster.
The chroma is still 10bit. It's 12bit all the time, at 4K/120 when it drops to an uncompressed 4:2:2 you are still getting 10bit on 10bit panels. For videogame graphics, there is zero discernable difference on 10bit displays.

It would only be more noticeable on film, but, no film runs 120fps, so never an issue, nor are there 12bit panels out to compare.
 
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p_xavier

Authorized Fister
The chroma is still 10bit. It's 12bit all the time, at 4K/120 when it drops to an uncompressed 4:2:2 you are still getting 10bit on 10bit panels. For videogame graphics, there is zero discernable difference on 10bit displays.

It would only be more noticeable on film, but, no film runs 120fps, so never an issue.
Why can I see a difference in colours when playing Uncharted 4 then?
 

p_xavier

Authorized Fister
Does Uncharted 4 disable HDR in 120?

I know some games had that bug, and have corrected them later in a patch.
Hence why I thought it was related to HDR in the first place to reduce chroma in the bandwidth. (I genuinely want to know more) There is a difference on screen. I have a Sony Z8H for my main gaming TV and a X900H for when I eat while gaming. It was a jarring difference.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Hence why I thought it was related to HDR in the first place to reduce chroma in the bandwidth. (I genuinely want to know more) There is a difference on screen. I have a Sony Z8H for my main gaming TV and a X900H for when I eat while gaming. It was a jarring difference.
4:4:4 is going to be better than 4:2:2 for color, but you are still getting 10bit and HDR. Apologies for the confusion.

Probably why 60Hz mode looks better since it's 4:4:4.
 
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DenchDeckard

Gold Member
I genuinely feel this is the generation that every game should get purchased 6 months after launch. I'm in the process of resetting to that time frame on games so then the wait will always feel the same to me.

No point in buying day one anymore.
 
I genuinely feel this is the generation that every game should get purchased 6 months after launch. I'm in the process of resetting to that time frame on games so then the wait will always feel the same to me.

No point in buying day one anymore.

Yup, will buy the new God of War next year because of this.
 

DeepSpace5D

Member
Huh, I guess I didn’t realize that with VRR enabled the performance mode can go above 60fps.

Think this might be the way I play H:FW after all. It did feel incredibly smooth, even if I do notice a slight drop in resolution compared to the 40fps mode.
 
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MacReady13

Member

NEW FEATURES (PlayStation 5)

  • Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) and High Refresh Rate (HFR) support
    • VRR improves dynamic resolution scaling on 60Hz
    • VRR & HFR targets a refresh rate between 60Hz and 120Hz
  • New “Balanced” Graphics Mode introducing 40Hz for supported displays

There's also a lot other fixes and improvements, check them here .

Hopefully the 40fps is like the Ratchet & Clank and you can play it with all graphical stuff at its best!

Such a shame the game didn't release like this, seriously...
You seriously expect games today to release in a completed state?!?
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Huh, I guess I didn’t realize that with VRR enabled the performance mode can go above 60fps.

Think this might be the way I play H:FW after all. It did feel incredibly smooth, even if I do notice a slight drop in resolution compared to the 40fps mode.

On my C1 it didn't go very far above 60 fps, like 70 fps was around the top.

Spiderman and R&C where going close to 100 fps at times with VRR enabled.
 

Fbh

Gold Member
This is both really nice but also the reason I have no desire to buy games at launch for $70.

And the devs wonder why people hold off on buying these games at launch. It's because they're half baked, missing tons of features and buggy.

Everyone praises Guerrilla for working so hard on the game and giving us plenty of updates, but this game was JUST FINALLY made to look good at 60fps and new game + was just added as well, and now VRR (yes I know PS5 didn't have VRR when HFW launched, but still).

Why does Guerrilla get a free pass when other devs are ridiculed for fixing their game after the fact? Everything should be well fleshed out before the game comes out, including how it looks and runs. Even Guardians of the Galaxy launched without a Ray Tracing mode, so the people who played it early got a sub-par experience and they're not likely to want to go back and re-play it again so soon just because there are some reflections now.

I agree things like this make me less likely to buy games at launch. Why spend $70 on a game day 1 if I can just wait 6 months and get it for $40-50 with tons of improvements.
But it's not like the game was broken at launch. This isn't something like Cyberpunk , Assassins Creed Unity or Skyrim on ps3. It's not a broken product getting fixed, it's a good product getting even better.

If I understand correctly this HRF is basically current 60 fps mode with unlocked framerate for supported TVs?

Essentially yeah.
For a game to run at locked 60fps it usually needs some headroom so the actual performance without a lock is always going to be above 60fps. On a TV without VRR unlocked framerate will give you a lot of judder though
 
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DeepSpace5D

Member
On my C1 it didn't go very far above 60 fps, like 70 fps was around the top.

Spiderman and R&C where going close to 100 fps at times with VRR enabled.
Yeah in the video I replied to the guy said he’s getting 70 and 80 fps in some areas. That’s pretty cool though because before I was thinking the performance mode was locked at 60.
 
Yeah in the video I replied to the guy said he’s getting 70 and 80 fps in some areas. That’s pretty cool though because before I was thinking the performance mode was locked at 60.

Seems like it's the right way to do a performance mode. What I like is that non VRR TV owners don't suffer since they enjoy a pretty stable 60FPS.
 

Hawking Radiation

Gold Member
This game is going to be the reason I purchase a PS5. Its just FUCKING BEAUTIFUL to look at.

Still glued to my twitter alerts for any available PS5's in my area 😩
 
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CamHostage

Member
40 fps without 120hz is a stutter mess...

That's how I would think it would work? 40 works nicely on 120Hz because it's evenly divisible (same as 30 and 60, which makes it a great upgrade that should just about be a broadcast standard; it also conforms properly for 24fps film transfers.) Get off of that natural framerate handshake and you have judder of mismatched frames (and that in addition to the framerate issues you have of the game failing to lock at 40.) You might even notice it more than slight framerate dips since it's a constant failure to conform, almost like a strobe effect of dropped frames.

It isn't when i watch comparisons on YouTube.

That is kind of weird, because Youtube doesn't have a 40FPS playback mode, right? I assume the processing blends frames or has a pulldown method for dealing with 40? (Come to think of it, I'm not sure if any capture cards run at 40FPS? Mine is 30/60, with some adjustments for electrical conformity.)

Video players and especially encoders have a lot of methods of dealing with video mismatching (apparently all of our Blu-Ray movies are proper 24fps transfers, even though the majority of TVs for all of BD's existence have been 60Hz sets,) but once you get into Game Mode and have a video signal you are dependent on being fast and accurate and without glitches due to the way gamers require their realtime video stream to be accurate, you probably have eliminated all the options of "fixing" this mismatch problem. Whereas Youtube or even your TV playing a video in TV mode clean it up for you without even asking.
 

Sosokrates

Member
That's how I would think it would work? 40 works nicely on 120Hz because it's evenly divisible (same as 30 and 60, which makes it a great upgrade that should just about be a broadcast standard; it also conforms properly for 24fps film transfers.) Get off of that natural framerate handshake and you have judder of mismatched frames (and that in addition to the framerate issues you have of the game failing to lock at 40.) You might even notice it more than slight framerate dips since it's a constant failure to conform, almost like a strobe effect of dropped frames.



That is kind of weird, because Youtube doesn't have a 40FPS playback mode, right? I assume the processing blends frames or has a pulldown method for dealing with 40? (Come to think of it, I'm not sure if any capture cards run at 40FPS? Mine is 30/60, with some adjustments for electrical conformity.)

Video players and especially encoders have a lot of methods of dealing with video mismatching (apparently all of our Blu-Ray movies are proper 24fps transfers, even though the majority of TVs for all of BD's existence have been 60Hz sets,) but once you get into Game Mode and have a video signal you are dependent on being fast and accurate and without glitches due to the way gamers require their realtime video stream to be accurate, you probably have eliminated all the options of "fixing" this mismatch problem. Whereas Youtube or even your TV playing a video in TV mode clean it up for you without even asking.

This is the video i was talking about, if that helps.

 

CamHostage

Member
This is the video i was talking about, if that helps.


Right. That's a 60FPS processed video of 40 mixed with 30 content. (Captured at maybe 40? probably 60? could be 120 if this guy is trendy?)



So this video has been filtered and filtered and filtered again (don't forget reprocessed for his overlays) before you get to watch it.

Hard to say what's accurate at that point, though I'm with you that the nonconforming issues I would have expected aren't sticking out for either of us offhand.
 
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