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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It's not pretty spot on unless you're emulating the Wii Version of HOTD2&3 (not 1) and use the in-game calibration to make the Wimote somewhat resemble a lightgun's aim (as long as you try and remain perfectly still after calibration, which is impossible as you move the Wiimote physically just to aim at different parts of the screen, but you can at least minimize how off it's going to be). I've found no way to perfectly calibrate Wiimote aiming when used in other apps like Model 2 emulator as a replacement for the mouse input they expect. I tried for ages and the various videos showing it off online used in conjunction with things like Touchmote or just with the Dolphinbar's own mouse mode also demonstrate the aim is way off even if the user is proud to announce it works perfectly, only to then play with crosshair on and/or vaguely guide the cursor around rather than just aim.
Lightgun projects like Sinden/Polymega's lightgun potnetially fix that by having the gun camera track a whole screen border rather than just a couple designated infrared points like the Wiimote which obviously aren't enough to provide full 3D space data for the gun to be fully accurate.
But we'll see what they've done, maybe they're changing the whole gameplay to be played with crosshair like Panzer Dragoon, just without an on-screen character but other elements that try to make it compelling. That could suck but it would also suck if they have a lackluster lightgun.
I've played the Wii lightgun games (the good ones that have good calibration, Ghost Squad, HOTD, LA Machineguns, etc, not the dodgy non-lightgun shooters like Dead Space/Resident Evil Chronicles etc.) on Dolphin for many many hours with the SEGA handcannon shell and they were fun but they should either do better than that all these years later or go home. One solution would be to make them PC VR games, PC VR controllers do even better than real lightguns as they're equally accurate in 3D space, not with a flat screen (ie you can physically move it around/over an object and angle it to shoot behind it). But they could also just make them work exactly the same by modelling the arcade cabinets in 1:1 scale and having you play on their flat screen in VR. It sucks nobody has done this properly yet, some emulators have it but are super convoluted/don't focus it.
Lightgun projects like Sinden/Polymega's lightgun potnetially fix that by having the gun camera track a whole screen border rather than just a couple designated infrared points like the Wiimote which obviously aren't enough to provide full 3D space data for the gun to be fully accurate.
But we'll see what they've done, maybe they're changing the whole gameplay to be played with crosshair like Panzer Dragoon, just without an on-screen character but other elements that try to make it compelling. That could suck but it would also suck if they have a lackluster lightgun.
I've played the Wii lightgun games (the good ones that have good calibration, Ghost Squad, HOTD, LA Machineguns, etc, not the dodgy non-lightgun shooters like Dead Space/Resident Evil Chronicles etc.) on Dolphin for many many hours with the SEGA handcannon shell and they were fun but they should either do better than that all these years later or go home. One solution would be to make them PC VR games, PC VR controllers do even better than real lightguns as they're equally accurate in 3D space, not with a flat screen (ie you can physically move it around/over an object and angle it to shoot behind it). But they could also just make them work exactly the same by modelling the arcade cabinets in 1:1 scale and having you play on their flat screen in VR. It sucks nobody has done this properly yet, some emulators have it but are super convoluted/don't focus it.
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KormaChameleon
Member
While I am aware this is coming out on the Switch. I hope we get to see them on XBO and PS4, how awesome would it be if they did and included a light gun that would work on modern TV... A man can dream!
dan76
Member
If you played the Wii games with "good calibration" then you know that the problem isn't with the hardware it's with the software. Again, using a dolphin bar is pretty spot on when used with the Model 2 emu (or most other emus for that matter. I'm far more accurate in Vampire Night on the PS2X emu than I ever was with the light gun bundled with the PS2 copy of the game)
Either way, a dolphin bar for £12 gets you a great approximation of a lightgun. I much prefer it to the aimtrack guns that cost almost £100 and like every other lightgun technology are subject to going out of calibration. When was the last time you played a properly calibrated light gun game in an arcade?
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I know it's the hardware because again, with "good calibration" your aim is good when standing perfectly still and essentially just on the actual calibration screen, if that, even if you're sitting and just slightly or not so slightly change your aiming pose as you play rather than actually move about. Hell, you can be calibrating while looking down the sights but then playing more sort of hip-firing rather than taking every shot so carefully, again the aim will be slightly off. From that point it goes off quickly unlike a lightgun. And it's impossible to stay perfectly still, you obviously move the gun around even just to aim at different corners of the same screen, so it's always gonna be a given degree off, a given degree of a vague interpretation of what you're actually aiming at. It also goes off if you change your distance as then you do different degrees of movement to aim at the same corners of the screen. Sure, you can technically adopt in some games, you can enable crosshair or use the bullet hit effect to correct your next shot after missing and end up using bullet hits like crosshair with lag, that's still not proper aiming like you can do with a real lightgun and hopefully the Sinden/Polymega lightgun too (and modern VR controllers). Games like Point Blank with some of their toughest challenges would be impossible to do with such a set up without crosshair on (like the falling leaf one with a single bullet) unless you got super lucky, unlike with a real lightgun where it's all up to your skill if you achieve it or not. Its up to you if you find that good enough or not but I didn't say anything untrue and you concede to it by calling it an "approximation" at the end so I dunno why I got that reply at all. It's impossible to have 1:1 aiming with just two points of reference for the Wiimote camera to track. Hence SEGA's later lightgun arcade games with LCD screens using waaaay more than two reference points to essentially do what Sinden does, create a whole border for the gun camera to track. It's not better in other emulators than Dolphin or native Wii either.
AimTrak is basically the exact same tech as Wiimote/GunCon3 so of course it's not worth the money in my opinion and yes it goes off just the same. Though Wiimotes are pretty expensive too these days (I don't trust third party stuff) actually, I was looking to replace mine a while ago looking for official stuff, it's crazy, even though there were plenty available still at the time since they had WiiU versions and everything (and if I was gonna get them I'd use them with more than lightgun games so wanted the Plus obviously). Each cost around 50 or more at the time.
Badly calibrated doesn't count as a comparison, this tech goes off even if you do it the best it can be done. With proper calibration you can theoretically do those Point Blank challenges if only you're good enough. With Wiimote/AimTrak/all I also mentioned before, it's LUCK if you ever get it right.
AimTrak is basically the exact same tech as Wiimote/GunCon3 so of course it's not worth the money in my opinion and yes it goes off just the same. Though Wiimotes are pretty expensive too these days (I don't trust third party stuff) actually, I was looking to replace mine a while ago looking for official stuff, it's crazy, even though there were plenty available still at the time since they had WiiU versions and everything (and if I was gonna get them I'd use them with more than lightgun games so wanted the Plus obviously). Each cost around 50 or more at the time.
Badly calibrated doesn't count as a comparison, this tech goes off even if you do it the best it can be done. With proper calibration you can theoretically do those Point Blank challenges if only you're good enough. With Wiimote/AimTrak/all I also mentioned before, it's LUCK if you ever get it right.
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dan76
Member
It's an approximation because it isn't actually using the technology of a traditional lightgun. I'm really not arguing, i just don't see that much difference between the two, as lightguns have their own inherent problems. In an arcade the guns would almost always go to shit after a couple of months. Setting up the emu's is a nightmare, but well worth it. I also have a very low lag monitor and that makes a ton of difference.
I think VR is the true home for lightgun games. I've posted this in other threads but why on earth haven't Sega put out collections in VR? It seems like a no brainer.
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Yeah, any VR game claiming to bring such old school arcade fun is in the end some shoddy wave shooter with none of the gameplay chops and fun. Or just a dodgy game.
Drop Dead on Oculus is probably the best there is after its last updates but it doesn't hold a candle to House of the Dead, it's not nearly as tight (only the trailer is Overkill grindhouse style btw, not the game).
www.oculus.com
Crisis Vrigade looks like it would feel similar enough but somehow it just doesn't either.
Drop Dead on Oculus is probably the best there is after its last updates but it doesn't hold a candle to House of the Dead, it's not nearly as tight (only the trailer is Overkill grindhouse style btw, not the game).
Drop Dead on Oculus Rift | Rift VR Games
Welcome to the Zombie apocalypse. Strap on an array of guns that would make Rambo, Wick and the Terminator jealous and go to war on the Z heads in this full on, non stop, action shooter.
www.oculus.com
Crisis Vrigade looks like it would feel similar enough but somehow it just doesn't either.
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Shakka43
Member
I've been playing the the games recently between Dolphin and ps3 and my love for lightgun games is in full swing. A remake for the first two sounds fantastic and hopefully they make their way to PS4 in 2d and VR modes, I just ordered the Aim controller and these would be a welcome test for it.
Still sad that the Gen is almost over and we didn't get a Time Crisis game
Still sad that the Gen is almost over and we didn't get a Time Crisis game
flibbertyjibbert
Banned
if they made this for PSVR i might even waste 4,000 dollars (or w/e it costs) on a PSVR headset after all
Pansy
Member
I need to dust off my own Dreamcast and get another copy of this game. The nostalgia is really hitting me hard for this one.Oh well, I just bought HOTD 2 for the Dreamcast a few days ago in Amsterdam.
Would be awesome to have them on the Switch, with motion controls
I just hope Forever Entertaiment can get their remake of Panzer Dragoon to hit good sales so that we have a greater chance of actually getting these remakes into development. I heard a rumor that the developer behind both the PZ and HotD remakes, MegaPixel Studios, is in financial trouble and needs to sell basically a crap-ton of Panzer Dragoon: Remake to get by
with future projects.
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