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How BioWare's Anthem Went Wrong [article by J. Schreier, Kotaku]

Cactuarman

Banned
Astronaut: $66,000 to $151,000
Navy SEAL: $54,000
Quantum physicist: $72,000
Neurosurgeon: $395,000

Game developer: $102,000
Game journalist: $46,000

I think the full context of this would include the cost of living in Redwood City, California - the median home being $1.6M seems fairly relevant when we're talking a bout how stressful it can be to work somewhere that may or may not be paying you fairly.

Average rent
Cost of living

Also I don't understand what 50% of these comments are getting at. A couple questions I'm hoping people can clarify:
  • How much money does one need to make relative to their cost of living to be able to complain about their job and have it be taking seriously?
  • Is an article about a major video game title not worthy of discussion on a video game forum because people involved in making the game are/were frustrated by their working conditions?
 

zeorhymer

Member
I thought it was known already? EA saw Destiny money, told Bioware to copy it. EA done goof with loot boxes thanks to Battlefront 2. Bioware had to redo the progression system from the ground up and only had 2 years to do it. It didn't help that Bioware has never done a looter shooter and this was a very high profile game on top of a flop which was ME:A.
 

mckmas8808

Banned
How about you spell out what you don't agree with?
It'd be a hell lot more productive.

Oh come on! Look at this statement.

If you are not happy with your life, it sure as shit should motivate you to do something about it, not cry and wait for someone to bail you out.

1. What's wrong with crying?
2. People actually DID do something able it. They left the company! It says so right in the article.
3. Why act as if going through a lot of mental stress is something easy to deal with? It was easy to "DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT", there would be no suicides in the world.


It's hard to take his comment seriously.
 
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recursive

Member
I kinda think it is actually lol. Being a games developer can be very mentally taxing work.

Are you a dev?

Regardless many industries and fields have work stress requiring and demanding schedules requiring "insane hours" I am in engineering and I average between 50 to 60 hours each week. Some weeks can be more or less.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
I think the full context of this would include the cost of living in Redwood City, California - the median home being $1.6M seems fairly relevant when we're talking a bout how stressful it can be to work somewhere that may or may not be paying you fairly.

Average rent
Cost of living

Also I don't understand what 50% of these comments are getting at. A couple questions I'm hoping people can clarify:
  • How much money does one need to make relative to their cost of living to be able to complain about their job and have it be taking seriously?
  • Is an article about a major video game title not worthy of discussion on a video game forum because people involved in making the game are/were frustrated by their working conditions?

You need to be a 911 operator for 20 years before you can complain. Anyone without 20 years of experience working a job where seconds mean life or death has no right to complain about anything, ever. These people are dogs, and can be whipped in the streets without any legal recourse. Should they ever voice any complaints they lose their citizenship and get fed to the great dark below, as was decreed by the elders.
 
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Congratulation you've just describe every new IP ever. The day devs stop taking chances and making new things is the day gaming die. Doing this is literally what gamers expect from devs, they always want new stuff even if they don't know it yet. If we made the same game over and over again, we would still playing Pong.

That’s incredibly hyperbolic. There’s a vast difference between BioWare leveraging their strengths to create a new IP that’s different from their other works, and scrapping everything and developing blind. Anthem was so different they couldn’t even use any of the codebase they struggled to build with Dragon Age: Inquisition. Anthem was so far out there for them, they couldn’t even pinpoint what they were trying to create. You’re telling me the only way Bioware survives is for it to keep throwing themselves at projects too challenging for them to complete? Innovation doesn’t have to equal reinvention.
 

mckmas8808

Banned
Are you a dev?

Regardless many industries and fields have work stress requiring and demanding schedules requiring "insane hours" I am in engineering and I average between 50 to 60 hours each week. Some weeks can be more or less.

I'm not a dev, but this isn't a competition. Someone saying a job type is super tough when having terrible leadership doesn't mean being a cop is easy. This all seems weird that people are fighting about how hard it was for the BioWare devs by giving their personal experiences of their job.

As if both things can't be true.

Professional composure is a reasonable expectation.

Athletes cry all the time when they lose in championship games. It's silly to act as if crying means you aren't a professional. This is hardcore American thought that many people in other countries hate about America. What everyone should care about is how horrible EA has been with many dev teams that they've bought in.

EA has been a graveyard for dev teams that have historically been great in the past. These employees aren't leaving because they are happy. You cry, then you react. Some people seek emotional help, others take PTO time off, and the rest left the company. There's literally 0% wrong with any of that. It's normal. It's human.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I'm not a dev, but this isn't a competition. Someone saying a job type is super tough when having terrible leadership doesn't mean being a cop is easy. This all seems weird that people are fighting about how hard it was for the BioWare devs by giving their personal experiences of their job.

As if both things can't be true.

It is a competition when someone makes a qualitative claim about a job being among the most difficult around.
 

recursive

Member
I'm not a dev, but this isn't a competition. Someone saying a job type is super tough when having terrible leadership doesn't mean being a cop is easy. This all seems weird that people are fighting about how hard it was for the BioWare devs by giving their personal experiences of their job.

As if both things can't be true.

People are pointing it out because it isn't an excuse.
 

Cosmogony

Member
Cactuarman Cactuarman

I think the full context of this would include the cost of living in Redwood City, California - the median home being $1.6M seems fairly relevant when we're talking a bout how stressful it can be to work somewhere that may or may not be paying you fairly.

Average rent
Cost of living

Also I don't understand what 50% of these comments are getting at. A couple questions I'm hoping people can clarify:
  • How much money does one need to make relative to their cost of living to be able to complain about their job and have it be taking seriously?
  • Is an article about a major video game title not worthy of discussion on a video game forum because people involved in making the game are/were frustrated by their working conditions?

There seems to be a misunderstanding of what it means to live and work in a free market economy.

You want better pay? Sure, all you have to do is persuade someone to pay you more. Easy. Alternatively, you can take the risk and reap the potential reward of starting your own business with your own money, where you will get to decide what kind of a salary will start flying your way. Meanwhile, while you're an employee, you do not get to write the check. You do not run other people's lives, including determining how other people handle their money. If you think you do, I'd like to know why on Earth don't they have the exact same reverse right to handle yours.

The point is that in a free market economy it's all voluntary. You voluntarily apply for a job, you voluntarily stay, quit, the employer voluntary hires and voluntary lets go of. If you think your job is so intolerable that staying at home binge-watching True Detective Season 3 is preferable, then do it. If you think your job is the purest form of manure on Earth but still better than anguishing over a jobless life where ends still need to meet, then stick with it. It is up to you. You choose and you handle the consequences. Making tough choices, sometimes involving the lesser of twelve evils is an inherent part of adult life.

What you don't have the right to, of course, is to dispose of other people's money in your favour and at your own discretion, no matter how justified you may think you are. Ask for a raise. Show how valuable you are to the business. Unionise. Go on strike. Or simply leave. Move to a more affordable inner city. Start your own business.

To answer your questions:

How much money does one need to make relative to their cost of living to be able to complain about their job and have it be taking seriously?

No relation.
You have the right to complain about whatever is bothering you in your job. Wise management will pay attention. Regardless, management will decide whether the demand is attenable or not. But you are not entitled to other people's money. If, for whatever reason, management won't even meet you halfway, if they're not prepared to pay you more than what they're currently paying you, I'm terribly sorry, but you have to decide where your priorities lie. Stay, ask for a raise later on, change career, move on to another company.

It's all up to you.

No, y ou don't have the right to automatically be taken seriously. What if your request is not serious at all? What if it is to be taken seriously but there's simply no financial leeway?

Is an article about a major video game title not worthy of discussion on a video game forum because people involved in making the game are/were frustrated by their working conditions?

Again, no relation.

I think it's entirely worthy of discussion.

This is especially true of what to me, reading the quoted passages and notwithstanding facts he may have uncovered and the discovery of which he is rightfully being praised for, seems to be his angle: greedy company squeezing out the last drop of juice out of overworked developers.

Stay, quit, negotiate, go on strike, leak to the press, start your own business, move to another city. Change career. or endure it all.

It's up to you.
But do choose and do own your choice.
Handle the consequences.
 
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I don't see point in oppression Olympics which job has it worst but among programmers game dev is worst when it comes to work life balance and money tends to be much better in database, big data etc.
 

recursive

Member
Excuse for what though? Who was making it an excuse?

What? The article was making a point that people needed crying rooms because of stress and hard work. The issues experienced by these people are not unique and don't automatically qualify for a free pass for making a shit product.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Yeah, dark, video game journalist is right behind astronaut, Navy SEAL, quantum physicist, and neurosurgeon IMO.











Nah, I’m talking about game programming...working on games. Not the fucking article. Graphics coding is extremely complex. I’d put that up there for sure.
 

mckmas8808

Banned
What? The article was making a point that people needed crying rooms because of stress and hard work. The issues experienced by these people are not unique and don't automatically qualify for a free pass for making a shit product.

I doubt they were literally "crying" rooms. Probably just stress relief rooms or a place to go to be alone and get away. Nothing wrong with that. I'm confused as to why having rooms like that are bad for employees? And who is saying they get a free pass for making a shit product?
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
What the fuck are you talking about? I am not talking about games journalism. I’m talking about development. Advanced graphics programming.

That is why I snipped it. Your original post was not very clear that you were discussing gaming development, which is probably why many others got on your case as well.
 

Shai-Tan

Banned
Some of this armchair game development is like keyboard warriors in mma forums telling fighters that they suck for reasons that fit the dunning-kruger effect, named after the paper "Unskilled and Unaware of it". Yes, developers are the ones who lack perspective not man on the internet with an opinion. I thought there were enough articles to establish that crunch is a problem in games development that causes burnout and exit from the industry but apparently they're just babies who suck at their job.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
DUDE! He said "one" of the most difficult. Why are you guys turning his statement into the "Career Depression Olympics"? It's not baffling at all. Just seems like you don't know how hard making games can be.

DUDE I am sorry I don't put game making in remotely the same realm of actual difficult jobs where people's lives are on the line not if we have correctly jiggly boobs or not.

But yes, "One of" can be very vague I so I do give that point.
 
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mckmas8808

Banned
Some of this armchair game development is like keyboard warriors in mma forums telling fighters that they suck for reasons that fit the dunning-kruger effect, named after the paper "Unskilled and Unaware of it". Yes, developers are the ones who lack perspective not man on the internet with an opinion. I thought there were enough articles to establish that crunch is a problem in games development that causes burnout and exit from the industry but apparently they're just babies who suck at their job.

You gotta understand, there's a growing number of video game forum posters and Twitter users that are becoming anti-media nowadays. So, they honestly probably aren't even reading those articles or listening to those podcasts.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
I'm sorry, but try working construction and get back to me. For that matter, try being a nurse or police officer or just about any high stress or hard labor job out there. I have zero sympathy for these cry babies.
You know what? Fuck you. I've actually DONE construction and worked in a foundry in the past. You don't know shit.

Honestly, though, the reaction to that misunderstanding makes it pretty fucking clear that I am not welcome here any longer. So fuck all of you. I'm gone.
 

recma12

Member
Some of this armchair game development is like keyboard warriors in mma forums telling fighters that they suck for reasons that fit the dunning-kruger effect, named after the paper "Unskilled and Unaware of it". Yes, developers are the ones who lack perspective not man on the internet with an opinion. I thought there were enough articles to establish that crunch is a problem in games development that causes burnout and exit from the industry but apparently they're just babies who suck at their job.

I'd argue that most people in the gaming industry have an IT degree that would allow them to find a less stressful job. Instead of designing gaming UIs, you can do SAP front ends (for example).
People in videogaming have the same problem people in music, TV, fashion, film or art have:
It's a cool job, people are lurking to take your place if you quit.
That's why EA & co. will always get away with shitty practices. It's a supply and demand issue that will never get fixed.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
You know what? Fuck you. I've actually DONE construction and worked in a foundry in the past. You don't know shit.

Honestly, though, the reaction to that misunderstanding makes it pretty fucking clear that I am not welcome here any longer. So fuck all of you. I'm gone.

Wow, grow up dude.

I love your work but seriously, wow.

**Edit: Mods should close this thread.
 
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Cosmogony

Member
Some of this armchair game development is like keyboard warriors in mma forums telling fighters that they suck for reasons that fit the dunning-kruger effect, named after the paper "Unskilled and Unaware of it".

When and how did you determine that chiming in to say x about game development is ludicrous but chiming in to say not-X is legitimate?

Yes, developers are the ones who lack perspective not man on the internet with an opinion.

When and how did you determine that all or even most of Bioware devs share the perspective Jason imbued the article with?


I thought there were enough articles to establish that crunch is a problem in games development that causes burnout and exit from the industry

I would agree. But the real issue is this:
What your solution? What's your alternative that manages to please all stakeholders?

You're about to make history.


but apparently they're just babies who suck at their job.

How does Anthem fare?

Its always a managerial problem, because poor strategy cascades down. And even if it's the uninspired story telling or the subpar art direction or the problematic performance, all due to ordinary devs, it's still the job of the management to spot these problems and fix them, either by changing their own ill-conceived plan, by diverting resources or simply replacing devs, if need be.

It's the management.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
You know what? Fuck you. I've actually DONE construction and worked in a foundry in the past. You don't know shit.

Honestly, though, the reaction to that misunderstanding makes it pretty fucking clear that I am not welcome here any longer. So fuck all of you. I'm gone.

Doesn't your life experience afford you a balanced perspective on these issues, then?

What's made you so fragile and hostile toward criticism lately? You used to be way tougher than this and you built a solid rep on the ground here over the years. Lots of folks on GAF, myself included, have always respected your take on things and your analysis.

Drop the victimhood complex and stand by your work, get back in the fray with other folks who have strong opinions and reforge yourself.
 

Cosmogony

Member
You know what? Fuck you. I've actually DONE construction and worked in a foundry in the past. You don't know shit.

Honestly, though, the reaction to that misunderstanding makes it pretty fucking clear that I am not welcome here any longer. So fuck all of you. I'm gone.

I, for one, am sorry to see you go. Maybe you can chill and reconsider.
It'd be great.

Open honest debate needs everyone.
 

Shai-Tan

Banned
I'd argue that most people in the gaming industry have an IT degree that would allow them to find a less stressful job. Instead of designing gaming UIs, you can do SAP front ends (for example).
People in videogaming have the same problem people in music, TV, fashion, film or art have:
It's a cool job, people are lurking to take your place if you quit.
That's why EA & co. will always get away with shitty practices. It's a supply and demand issue that will never get fixed.

yeah I think that contributes to it. Some of it is self imposed due to pride in work and the collective effort. There are a hundred different ways games development can go wrong which creates a lot of extra work for specific people who need to play catch up. Anyhow, I burned out of normal software development (writing custom code for PostgreSQL) so I feel for the nightmare they face when things aren't quite coming together.
 

Arkage

Banned
I can see breakdowns happening after continual critical bombs for a studio that was otherwise viewed as incredibly innovative and important to the gaming industry for decades. Especially so in context of EA and their history of closing studios. People devoting years of their life to a product that ends up badly, along with hoards of trolls now hating you as a studio as if you killed their child, has got to be incredibly demotivating to move forward from.

Calling them "crybabies" is playground bully shit. My Dad works in a foundry. Guess what? He wouldn't feel compelled to shit on devs for getting emotional over wasting years of their life on a bad game and ruining a valuable reputation as well as their own future resume. Some people are able to see a broader picture of human experience outside of "manual labor = harder = crying is allowed." Absurd reductionism.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Doesn't your life experience afford you a balanced perspective on these issues, then?

What's made you so fragile and hostile toward criticism lately? You used to be way tougher than this and you built a solid rep on the ground here over the years. Lots of folks on GAF, myself included, have always respected your take on things and your analysis.

Drop the victimhood complex and stand by your work, get back in the fray with other folks who have strong opinions and reforge yourself.
The issue is that I’m extremely fucking depressed lately and in chronic pain that nobody can help with (which obviously nobody would care about anyways). I’ve been so close to the edge lately. I don’t think I’m worth shit. I’m working my ass off but I don’t know why. Things are not good.

That’s nobody’s problem but my own obviously but the viciousness of people’s reactions to something that they totally misread doesn’t sit well with me and since I’m in bad shape, I’m overreacting like an asshole.

So now that I’ve demonstrated how messed up I am in this state I’m sure I’ll get dog piled for it.

I think very poorly of myself, am hideously ugly, constantly dealing with shitty messages, feel like shit everyday, etc. So I’m not acting rationally currently. That’s basically it.

I apologize for acting like a jerk then. That’s not right. I don’t want to be that way.
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Please do not take John away from here.

I don't think anyone wants to take him away, just want him to stop with the victim mentality.

I can see breakdowns happening after continual critical bombs for a studio that was otherwise viewed as incredibly innovative and important to the gaming industry for decades. Especially so in context of EA and their history of closing studios. People devoting years of their life to a product that ends up badly, along with hoards of trolls now hating you as a studio as if you killed their child, has got to be incredibly demotivating to move forward from.

Calling them "crybabies" is playground bully shit. My Dad works in a foundry. Guess what? He wouldn't feel compelled to shit on devs for getting emotional over wasting years of their life on a bad game and ruining a valuable reputation as well as their own future resume. Some people are able to see a broader picture of human experience outside of "manual labor = harder = crying is allowed." Absurd reductionism.

Agreed. Crying is perfectly acceptable for the reasons you posted. While we can debate on whether game development is truly one of the "most difficult jobs" around, that doesn't mean a person can't cry when emotions run high.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
The issue is that I’m extremely fucking depressed lately and in chronic pain that nobody can help with (which obviously nobody would care about anyways). I’ve been so close to the edge lately. I don’t think I’m worth shit. I’m working my ass off but I don’t know why. Things are not good.

That’s nobody’s problem but my own obviously but the viciousness of people’s reactions to something that they totally misread doesn’t sit well with me and since I’m in bad shape, I’m overreacting like an asshole.

So now that I’ve demonstrated how messed up I am in this state I’m sure I’ll get dog piled for it.

Nah, mate. Sorry if I got a little harsh on you. Going through some shit myself, so the misunderstanding made my blood boil for reasons that were clear in the post (70+ hour work weeks will do that to a person). Once I learned what you had meant, I removed that post.

Get the help you need and take a break from forums in general if need be. Your health is priority here.
 

recma12

Member
The issue is that I’m extremely fucking depressed lately and in chronic pain that nobody can help with (which obviously nobody would care about anyways). I’ve been so close to the edge lately. I don’t think I’m worth shit. I’m working my ass off but I don’t know why. Things are not good.

That’s nobody’s problem but my own obviously but the viciousness of people’s reactions to something that they totally misread doesn’t sit well with me and since I’m in bad shape, I’m overreacting like an asshole.

So now that I’ve demonstrated how messed up I am in this state I’m sure I’ll get dog piled for it.

I'm on a business trip in Nürnberg, Germany right now and have watched the Need for Speed 3DO DF Retro episode literally an hour ago.
Have the Bubsy video lined up in another tab right now, will watch that before I go to sleep.
Maybe it helps to know that I love your work and it brings me a ton of joy.

Get well soon and keep up the great work! I truly appreciate it!
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Nah, mate. Sorry if I got a little harsh on you. Going through some shit myself, so the misunderstanding made my blood boil for reasons that were clear in the post (70+ hour work weeks will do that to a person). Once I learned what you had meant, I removed that post.

Get the help you need and take a break from forums in general if need be. Your health is priority here.
I know, I’ve been doing weeks of 14 hour days. Never going out. Barely doing anything. Hardly spending time with my family. Always in pain. Shit is bad.

Having a tough time finding the help I need since my German sucks too.

I know there’s plenty of good folks out there but, man, do I feel messed up.

I see your studying chemistry, btw, which is cool. My wife has a PhD in chemical engineering and has a boat load of patents now which always blows my mind. She’s at least achieved something and is the reason I hang on (well, and the little one).
 
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Cosmogony

Member
The issue is that I’m extremely fucking depressed lately

Sorry to hear that.

and in chronic pain that nobody can help with (which obviously nobody would care about anyways). I’ve been so close to the edge lately. I don’t think I’m worth shit. I’m working my ass off but I don’t know why. Things are not good.

You'll pull through.

That’s nobody’s problem but my own obviously but the viciousness of people’s reactions to something that they totally misread doesn’t sit well with me and since I’m in bad shape, I’m overreacting like an asshole.

It happens to everyone.

So now that I’ve demonstrated how messed up I am in this state I’m sure I’ll get dog piled for it.

On the contrary, if I had to guess.

I think very poorly of myself, am hideously ugly, constantly dealing with shitty messages, feel like shit everyday, etc. So I’m not acting rationally currently. That’s basically it.

What are you talking about?!
You're part of Digital Foundry.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
The issue is that I’m extremely fucking depressed lately and in chronic pain that nobody can help with (which obviously nobody would care about anyways). I’ve been so close to the edge lately. I don’t think I’m worth shit. I’m working my ass off but I don’t know why. Things are not good.

That’s nobody’s problem but my own obviously but the viciousness of people’s reactions to something that they totally misread doesn’t sit well with me and since I’m in bad shape, I’m overreacting like an asshole.

So now that I’ve demonstrated how messed up I am in this state I’m sure I’ll get dog piled for it.

I feel ya, and I've noticed your apparent stress levels. Sorry about your situation right now. I'm guessing the future of DF may be uncertain and other equivalent opportunities might be difficult to come by in the current market.

We all have our struggles. I wouldn't wish what happened to me on my worst enemy. That's on me to deal with, and I try not to bring it up incessantly or let it color everything about my interactions with others. I have a job to do. As adults we have to bear our burdens as best we can and carry onward. The internet can minimize empathy and disconnect us from one another very easily, but I think a lot of us here have shared experiences and better understanding of each other than we might think in the heat of the moment.

You're an OG gaffer, dark. We're not quitting on you that easily. ;b
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
I don't really have an opinion on Jason Schrier as a journalist. Maybe I don't follow him close enough on Twitter or read most of his articles. As this is one of the only articles I've read...taken at face value I think the article is very informative. I've always wondered just how EA figures out how to screw it's developers. I've also wondered how much of this falls on the developer itself. This article at the very least lends some perspective to both questions. Even if Jason Schrier has a narrative to push, as long as what he's saying in this article is true and the information isn't omitting large details that could potentially change ones opinions, then you should look at the work as solid journalism.

The point is, we all know Anthem is not what we hoped it would be. We speculated all through its development that it was in trouble due to the departures of seasoned veterans. We rejoiced when Casey Hudson came back into the fold. Now we have more information about this development cycle than one could ever expect and people are dismissing it because it's Jason Schrier? Seriously? Is it because he's from Kotaku, which seems to have an Xbox-leaning bias?

It just doesn't seem to make sense why he's met with so much vitriol on what seems to me like an unprecedented look into the development hell of one of the most anticipated games of this year.

Seriously, shame on you if you can't put your personal bias aside for this.
 

Fake

Member
I don't think anyone wants to take him away, just want him to stop with the victim mentality.
But we can do better. I know that.
The issue is that I’m extremely fucking depressed lately and in chronic pain that nobody can help with (which obviously nobody would care about anyways). I’ve been so close to the edge lately. I don’t think I’m worth shit. I’m working my ass off but I don’t know why. Things are not good.

That’s nobody’s problem but my own obviously but the viciousness of people’s reactions to something that they totally misread doesn’t sit well with me and since I’m in bad shape, I’m overreacting like an asshole.

So now that I’ve demonstrated how messed up I am in this state I’m sure I’ll get dog piled for it.

I think very poorly of myself, am hideously ugly, constantly dealing with shitty messages, feel like shit everyday, etc. So I’m not acting rationally currently. That’s basically it.
You can't blame yourself for the internet John. Out there is a world full of retarted people, but what I learned was even even against the wall we can never generalize. I watched you since I discovery Digital Foundry. I know you sometimes suffer from this problems, BUT when I saw 'f#$ you all' I ask myself: Is really John doing that? After all the time we spend togheter talking about old games, mega drive, master system, RETRO?
I'll never gonna defend those people who ask to you to be more 'good looking' because I find this ridiculous, but this don't stop me think you're hurting your fans feelings. To hell with the hatters, but I know you can do better than that. You're more than that, here or in the 'other' forum.
if I did not give up on you, why would you?
 
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recma12

Member
yeah I think that contributes to it. Some of it is self imposed due to pride in work and the collective effort. There are a hundred different ways games development can go wrong which creates a lot of extra work for specific people who need to play catch up. Anyhow, I burned out of normal software development (writing custom code for PostgreSQL) so I feel for the nightmare they face when things aren't quite coming together.

My wife majored in arts.
She started out working for famous auction houses and art galleries.
Shit pay, long hours, bad treatment BUT you meet cool people, get to go to fancy events overseas and it just sounds super cool to work at Sotheby's or Bassenge.
Obviously, lots of people in line to take the job in case you don't "get with the program".

Now she works as an art teacher at a high school and life is much, much better.
She sometimes misses wearing dresses and drinking champagne, but now she has a stable life.

I believe working in games is similar. The strong opinions, crybaby comments and backslash from gamers when they hear about crunch is probably due to the fact that many people would love to work on games and envy the devs.

Having a tough time finding the help I need since my German sucks too.

I'm German. If you have a question or need some advice or anything just DM me.
 
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dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
feel ya, and I've noticed your apparent stress levels. Sorry about your situation right now. I'm guessing the future of DF may be uncertain and other equivalent opportunities might be difficult to come by in the current market.
Thankfully, that’s doing extremely well and I do enjoy it mostly despite working too many hours. The problems are mainly internal. I honestly can’t deal with the physical pain and that’s amplifying everything to the extreme.
 
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