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How come it’s so hard to be a game dev these days?

MrJTeera

Member
Like, I’ve seen so many devs out there trying to ship their products out, only to be complained by a buncha no names on the forumboard.

I’ve seen devs who catered you and some other devs when try to stray away from your opinion, and it’s just result in. Shit products, both ways.

So I’m asking genuinely, what the fuck can you do to save videogames ruination, or what the fuck that you did? Any input would keep me from suicide at this point!
 

SlimeGooGoo

Party Gooper
The bar is set too high nowadays. Consumers' expectations are over the top. Way too many games to play. Competition is high. Definitely not enough to just make another generic game, unless you have infinite money for marketing.


I’ve seen so many devs out there trying to ship their products out, only to be complained by a buncha no names on the forumboard.
Part and parcel

I’ve seen devs who catered you and some other devs when try to stray away from your opinion, and it’s just result in. Shit products, both ways.
Opposite is also true.

So I’m asking genuinely, what the fuck can you do to save videogames ruination, or what the fuck that you did?
There's no right answer to that question. If you're a developer, make the game you want to make one step at a time.

Any input would keep me from suicide at this point!
Hope you're not serious about this.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
Capitalism.

You don‘t like it? Make a better product then.

Unless you’re making a game strictly for your own enjoyment and just letting people buy on the side, don’t expect to be babied in the real world.
 

WitchHunter

Member
Create something that stimulates. Like start the game with the protagonist throwing some annoying pos out of a window (thru the window), then turns to the camera, shows his golden teeth and tells that he always wanted to be a gangster and hates fucking rats. And before finishing a loud thud signifies the guy arrived on top of a car. Another chap appears, knee to the head, left hook into stomach, bashing his head into the wall... he stays in the wall, bleeding profusely. He spits out of the window and proceeds deeper into the house while pulls on his black leather gloves...

Threshold is so fn low. Be brave... and fuck things up.
 
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*Nightwing

Member
As someone learning to code to jump into software development to change career, I have been shocked to see how the world is held together with the coding equivalent of duct tape, wire and gum and it all still manages to work.

Experienced developers that can write and implement clean effective and concise code are few and far in between and have thier pick of jobs they want.

Game development in turn is probably one of the lowest paying developers jobs and as such many start in it and move out of game development once they get experience since the pay is so low and the amount of work recreating a virtual world is not something I would want to tackle with a deadline as well.

The product of creating a game is akin to creating a world virtually. It’s a lot of work, 30 gigs for textures, sound recordings and code is a shit ton of code and pretty standard for aaa games these days. Add to that the pay is the lowest in comparison to other industries for software developers and you not only have your awnser, but also awnsers why we get so many remakes, as well as just poorly made rushed games. Developers that love games leading game development like ID software really don’t exist these days, and the few that still do aren’t making open world 3d games. 2D or isometric 3D is where we see innovation and passion for game making since it’s a heck of a lot less code and a small team can manage it
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Game devs are a chatty bunch and love twitter. So if they want to be out there plugging their games and social media account, they're going to get feedback good or bad.

Everyone eats rice, bread or potatoes every day. Good or bad, you dont get eaters complaining, nor anyone from the company trying to PR their way to victory. Dont put yourself out there and people wont put a target on your head.

Also, a lot of games from the big companies are set at the standard $60 or $70 US. It gives gamers more ammo when a shit game is sold to gamers at the same price as a AAA goty game. Nobody is going to care much if a $5 indie isnt the greatest, but when a big publisher wants to churn out trainwrecks for full price then they better expect some flak.
 
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Has gamedev ever been not hard?
All I see in the dev industry is that the gamedevs are usually worse off than all other devs, in what relates to salaries, working conditions, career progression and job security.

I worked on Kingdom Come: Deliverance

And still do to some extent, but I am not going to talk about vidya N-word
On a scale of zero to Daniel Vávra, how based is Daniel Vávra?
 
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Doing something really good is rarely easy.

When you play the game, do you like it? Do you wish to be playing something else or doing something else? Trust your experience with the game. If when you play, you want to play more, there will definitely be someone else in the planet that will feel the same way.
 
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M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Has gamedev ever been not hard?
All I see in the dev industry is that the gamedevs are usually worse off than all other devs, in what relates to salaries, working conditions, career progression and job security.


On a scale of zero to Daniel Vávra, how based is Daniel Vávra?
He is sort of...we don't align politically, but he is good man. Very funny guy and never had a problem with him. He also ensured the whole writing and consulting team was very diverse politically and he was really adamant about that. But here the politics are quite mild. Based? I don't know, sometimes he said really dumb shit. But that's probably all of us.

You can try auto translate, here is his thoughts and stuff:

 

Guilty_AI

Member
From what i understand, making a living in any entertainment industry tends to be very hard, not just gamedev. They're not essential products/services after all.
 
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kiryani

Member
Can’t work hard because people cry crunch, still have release dates to hit , people then cry not enough hours put into the game
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Its software develope as a whole. expectations from the people giving the money to make the app vs reality of how long it take and nowdays VS younng entitled a-holes who really dont want to work and complain about not getting rewarded every day for just showing up.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
It’s easier than ever to start making games because of Unity and iPads and free content.
Finishing something is always difficult though, I’ve been at the ”can be played from start to finish” phase but never actually finished anything, I always lose the interest after years of playing the same broken game.

And social media can really kill your mood, people can be absolute shitheads for no logic reason. I’ve stopped posting updates but I always have something cooking.

Been working on a top down stealth action game I started 15 or so years ago. I’m over it though, it’s made in Java and I’m worthless at coding. I’m fiddling with a side scrolling Unity platformer now, with gaming’s bustiest main character, drawn and hand animated in extreme detail on iPad. It’s fun! (not the game but working on a game)
 

MiguelItUp

Gold Member
It's always been "hard". But when people are passionate, dedicated and driven, they keep on going. That being said, nowadays there is software available that technically makes the development process easier than ever before.

But times have changed and so many people have just become more entitled and impatient. It doesn't help that we live in a world soaked in immediate gratification. But over the past few years, I swear so many people that comment online are "experts" in topics that they have absolutely zero experience in, lol.

As someone that's been in the industry for about 10-ish years total, I can't tell you how funny it is to see SO many armchair developers.
 
As someone learning to code to jump into software development to change career, I have been shocked to see how the world is held together with the coding equivalent of duct tape, wire and gum and it all still manages to work.

Experienced developers that can write and implement clean effective and concise code are few and far in between and have thier pick of jobs they want.

Game development in turn is probably one of the lowest paying developers jobs and as such many start in it and move out of game development once they get experience since the pay is so low and the amount of work recreating a virtual world is not something I would want to tackle with a deadline as well.

The product of creating a game is akin to creating a world virtually. It’s a lot of work, 30 gigs for textures, sound recordings and code is a shit ton of code and pretty standard for aaa games these days. Add to that the pay is the lowest in comparison to other industries for software developers and you not only have your awnser, but also awnsers why we get so many remakes, as well as just poorly made rushed games. Developers that love games leading game development like ID software really don’t exist these days, and the few that still do aren’t making open world 3d games. 2D or isometric 3D is where we see innovation and passion for game making since it’s a heck of a lot less code and a small team can manage it
I don’t want to sound negative here but is it because of the Art direction that made it this way despite the amount of effort it takes?
 
Just start from scratch , if it's small then go for Unreal engine free program, I don't remember exactly how it works, I heard from a youtuber that they start to charge you once you start making profit.
 
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Ellery

Member
It has gone from being a creative process with blood, sweat and tears behind it to channel one's passion into something they would love for themselves into a soulless money oriented job.

That is also why so many indie games are amazing at their core when only one or a handful of people work on it.

It may not be the answer you are looking for, but capitalism does ruin a lot things. Many games are being created with the sole purpose of making money and putting everything else second that doesn't maximize profit because the suits that make those decisions, deadlines, budgets and monetization of games only care for one thing and it makes sense that things are being created to make money, but many of us have grown up in times where games we pure and full of passion.

You also shouldn't confuse devs with people that actually make decisions. Developers for the most part are fine, but developers don't decide that a trilogy of refreshed games has to be rushed out to meet deadlines or that talent is wasted to create cosmetic microtransaction items for stores instead of working on Half Life 3.

We should always call out shitty games, but not at the cost of developers who probably actually care about games, but then took a job where they work 12 hours a day for an idiot suit who has no clue about anything related to passion or art.


The best thing you can do?

-
Buy indie games (or any good game that you consider great and has passion) that get good scores and love from lots of like minded folks.
- Skip 5/10 EA, Ubisoft, Activision etc. trash that is the same buggy microtransaction infested generic formulaic game every single damn time.
- Spread the word about games you love on gaming related websites/forums/social media (yes we all hate social media I get it).
- Don't harass developers, because the fish starts stinking from the Bobby Kotick head.
- Give devs from games that you love positive feedback and words of encouragement. Especially for smaller ones that means a lot
- Don't touch games with Season Passes or microtransactions, because that will start the downwards spiral (obviously there are always exceptions, but if you start spending money there they will increase it in the future and take more from you. If you give them a finger they will take your hand)
- Don't buy big games that you are probably not interested in just because they are on sale. Buy 9/10 or 10/10 smaller games that you hear every now and even if they don't seem like your games there is a reason why people love some of those games so much. It helps to get out of one's comfort zone to expand one's horizon and find new stuff to fall in love with.
- Your own mindset is also important. It doesn't help to obsess over the games that contribute to the "ruination of gaming". Yeah those games get a lot of headlines and talk, but that is also because the people who play good games are busy playing good games instead of being resentful on Twitter.

Does it instantly work and the industry will turn to better tomorrow? No of course not, but you also help yourself to enjoy more meaningful passionate freetime and over the course of a long run you will realize that there are more games you love than you would have thought possible and when more people do that than the money flows to the right people.
 
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The gaming industry is oversaturated. If you're looking to make money, have job stability, and avoid internet harassment, make accounting software instead.
Saturated from a typical overpriced underdelevered contents, if he thinks genuinely he'll find that there's always room for great contents.
 

Fbh

Member
Not sure what you are asking.
But my guess is that because budgets of AAA have skyrocketed they are increasingly becoming more safe and samey as no one is going to give you $100 million to make some unique passion project.
Your other choice is going indie where you'll be entering a rather over saturated market where it's hard to stand out and you have no assurances that it will be profitable enough to financially support you (and maybe a small team) as a full time job
 

Wildebeest

Member
The problem with passion is that it burns out and you better have something else to get you to the finishing line. You come up with an idea that very few people like or understand, then it is pure bloody mindedness to get it finished. I guess you have to have a big ego about how your ideas are the more important than some random internet troll, but if you can't hammer them into a shape that other people can deal with, then there is no point. Maybe the hardest thing to accept for a big ego bloody minded person is that sometimes their ideas don't stand out at all because they are so fixed on things that mean something to them that they don't put effort into other areas. Hope you enjoyed my TED talk.
 

BigBooper

Gold Member
On the contrary, it's easier than ever, which is why they are so bad at it nowadays. Experts have been replaced by blue haired coders without experience or wisdom.
 
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Lanrutcon

Member
Remember NES games? Those are easy to make. One guy can do those in like, a month these days. The tools and assets are easy to access and cheap.

But you don't except NES games, do you? You except a 20 hour game that runs like butter at 4k and has a new game+, multiplayer, several game modes, high res textures, unique assets, voice acting, complex net code and everything the previous game had. And by God if any of those things are missing then you'll only buy it once it's 80% off.

Games haven't gotten harder to make. We've gotten harder to please.
 

DaGwaphics

Gold Member
Remember NES games? Those are easy to make. One guy can do those in like, a month these days. The tools and assets are easy to access and cheap.

But you don't except NES games, do you? You except a 20 hour game that runs like butter at 4k and has a new game+, multiplayer, several game modes, high res textures, unique assets, voice acting, complex net code and everything the previous game had. And by God if any of those things are missing then you'll only buy it once it's 80% off.

Games haven't gotten harder to make. We've gotten harder to please.

I'll only buy it if it is 60-80% off regardless of quality, but I will post a positive review. I figure that evens it out. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Seriously though, from the players perspective I see a ton of positivity regarding games in general. The ones that get loads of bad press are either over-hyped (CP2077), buggy and broken (that hilarious new version of the classic GTA games) or both. Resisting over-hyping is very important in the social media age, IMO. Sony and Nintendo do a good job of hyping without overdoing it, MS seems to be getting better in that area too.
 

*Nightwing

Member
I don’t want to sound negative here but is it because of the Art direction that made it this way despite the amount of effort it takes?
More intelligent and experienced people should awnser that rather than me. I’d put my money on as the technology increases it simply makes it more complicated.

Art direction is more used to hide technincal limitations I’d say than being a cause of difficult game software development. More symptom than cause. At least you can tell it is when the art direction changes and becomes more artistic but less polished in a game mid development vs announcement promotional trailers- Edit: I don’t mean this negativity, using art direction to hide technical limitations but still get the producers vision across is an impressive feat in itself
 
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Reizo Ryuu

Member
I don’t want to sound negative here but is it because of the Art direction that made it this way despite the amount of effort it takes?
No, it being an interactive medium that's several feature films in length just makes it very, very complex. This is why only the really big studios make their own in-house engines, everyone else just licenses some ready to use solution.
Even with in-house engines, the devs will generally license a lot of "add-on" code, called "middleware", like Havok Physics, so they don't have to write their own physics simulation from scratch; it's hard.
 

Fare thee well

Neophyte
If it's anything like all my engineer friends at tech companies: 20% engineers struggling to do the work whilst the 80% business majors try to justify their salary with 3 manager leads to every engineer 😄

Now why it's like that? Maybe engineers can't be bothered starting their own company or they suck at sales. Anyway I see many parallels with that and game development.
 
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