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[01011001]

noone buys graphics cards, that's a niche market.
99% of PC users buy a prebuilt PC or a Laptop. and the prices in those segments are still relatively tame if you buy at a good store.

and considering you "only" need an RTX2070 super or an RTX3060 ti to match or even outpace a PS5/SX, I think PC gaming will be fine.
if you stay at 1080p you will be fine with an RTX3060 or 2070 as well

a decent PC with a good SSD, 16GB DDR4, a modern CPU and an RTX3060 will cost you about 1200€. which is not too bad imo.
if you shop around and look for sales you might even get one closer to 1000€





my Ryzen 5600X, RTX3060ti, 1TB SSD rig I got a few months ago cost 1300€

MSRP for the 3060ti is 400€, the 5600X is 280€, that 1TB SSD is about 110€, the case would have been about 100€, the motherboard ~120€ and the RAM ~70€

400+280+110+100+120+70=1180€

so the PC was about 120€ above MSRP, is build really well with great cable management and no blemishes, zero bloatware installed... which is really not bad... shipping was free too
it was a special sale so that PC would have been a bit more expensive if it wasn't for the sale, but if you look for those you're good

edit: I also forgot the CPU cooler, which is not a stock cooler... it's a beQuiet cooler that has an MSRP of around 60€ I think. I also used the MSRP for the founders edition of the 3060ti, while I got a tripple fan Asus TUF variant. not sure what the MSRP is for that but partner cards are usually a bit more expensive. also Windows 10 Pro was included as well of course.

 

[ClosBSAS]

holy shit some of the answers on this forum..my god. the ignorance, holy shit. dude, pc gaming is not being affected by anything, we can run most games on last gen gpus. its far from being affected or going out of business, its in fact going up.

 

[melekind]

I think it does, but not too much.Even for games with high hardware requirements, a medium graphics card is often enough, like my 2060s

 

[Brofist]

Fine for now, PCs can run most games..eventually will be a problem. If the new consoles were actually easily and readily available I think more people would be bailing on PC gaming. On the flip side if GPUs actually hit the shelves at reasonable pricing (lol) the opposite may happen.

 

[CuNi]

Playing new games on ultra on release was always more or less reserved for the big spenders. I managed to snag a ASUS strix OC 3080 for less than 1k in January 2021. Planning to run this bad boy till 2024/25 at least our until GPU price gets more stable.

Most mid tier cards will be able to run games on medium to high on 60 fps or more on low settings so I don't see a problem with gaming slowing down.

 

[GasTheWeebs]

DLSS is a blurry mess, please stop talking about that technology as some kind of magic.
it just kills the imagine quality.

 

[The Cockatrice]

DLSS is a blurry mess, please stop talking about that technology as some kind of magic.
it just kills the imagine quality.

Someone is jealous or blind or both. When it launched it was. Now it no longer is. Is native better? of course it is however the up to 50% performance gain or more is too good to pass up relative to the visual downgrade.

 

[Ebidramon]

Guys, what exactly are, in your opinion, a reasonable prices for GPUs?

 

[Orta]

I'm buying a Series S to tide me over until GPU availability/prices resume to some form of normality (if they ever do). I could get something like a 3060 but I prefer the 70/80 cards and I'm not going to be scalped for one of them.

Just checked overclockers and their cheapest 3070 is €790, highest is €1200. That's absolutely fucking ludicrous.

I can buy a pre-owned series S less than a few weeks old for around €210 and play something like Forza 5 on it with much better performance than my five year old pc.

 

[Zug]

DLSS is a blurry mess, please stop talking about that technology as some kind of magic.
it just kills the imagine quality.

DLSS quality looks better than native in most cases (less shimmering), and runs faster.

 

[SaturnSaturn]

Wont matter it will be as big as ever, the majority of pc gamers dont care or cant afford the newest shit. people play on pc for due to cheaper games, better infrastructure or "free games". something that is not possible on consoles. My bet is the next gen of APU's will sell like hotcakes. Hell i even played through Cyberpunk on a old rx 480 and had a blast.

 

[Ebidramon]

Which Sony cinematic AAA-like games are on PC?

 

[STARSBarry]

Actually had to go with a prebuilt from a local system builder because or how hard it was to get a card, ended up paying a premium but far less than if I had bought the parts separately, largely due to how insane GPU prices where.

I mean an RTX 3080 which should retail for £650-700 which ain't exactly a cheap card has asking prices above the old Titans which people laughed at back in the day.

I really wish crypto currency just got banned by most financial institutions so the values plummeted but thats never going to happen now.

 

[IDKFA]

I've been toying with the idea of getting a gaming PC, but I can't justify the extreme cost at the moment. If I were to build a rig, then I'd want something that would last for years, which means a decent graphics card (3070 at least), but the cost of just the card is over £600. A decent rig, including a monitor, would end up costing me a four figure sum.

 

[Shadowstar39]

It's pretty brutal out there, at least here in the US. 3060 is going for ~$750-800, 3060 Ti is ~$850-900, 3070 is going for over $1K. I've seen a few deals on pre-builts where it would make more sense to go that route as opposed to paying a scalper. It's not my preference, but I'm tempted to do it and maybe sell my old hardware afterwards.

I just want a 3060 Ti or a 3070 at this point. I signed up for the EVGA queue back in Feb/March and at the time you could add a bunch of cards, but then they had a notification that certain skus wouldn't be available. Later they made you select only 2 cards. I did the 3060 Ti and as a "fuck it" pick I also did the 3060 12GB thinking it might be available sooner. A week ago I finally got the 3060 12GB after 9 months of waiting, so that's the state of the EVGA queue. Newegg is out there giving you a chance to "win" an opportunity to buy a $1K 3070 Ti with some RAM or an overpriced monitor in a bundle, basically scalping. Bleh.

I don't get why all the companies don't implement evga style queue system. That's how I got my 3060ti (well it was their stepup program but same principle). It took 8 months but at least I didn't have to worry about going to web sites all the time and walking away disappointed. I paid original $460 msrp, only bad part was ups shipping my 2060 off to California from PA. That cost almost $70 itself.

Hell even Sony and MS could do queues have people pay and then send when ready based on the queue. I'd happily do that over the bs current situations. And with places like Newegg, Walmart, etc putting in $200 premium memberships to get a better chance, that feels like highway robbery to me. Just make a general queue for people to pay early.

 

[DetectiveBananas]

And here I am still rocking my 970 and hoping for the best

 

[ozz ex machina]

All my friends who remotely wanted 3070 cards have them now. They are dropping still, just get in one of those discords.

PC gaming is going very well. Also fucking lol at the guy who thinks 99% of pc gamers play on prebuilt/laptops. I'd say if I was being generous it would be more like 70-80%.

 

[Kerotan]

i have a 2080 and was gonna get a 3080/3090 but of course it was impossible. i'm done with PC gaming until this shit is sorted out. my 2080 hasn't let me down yet (DLSS has definitely helped) but when the time comes to upgrade i'll just be going back to consoles.

A ps5 at $500 is such a sexy proposition these days. Blessed to have bought one back in 2020 to set me up for an entire generation. No more hardware worries!

 

[Buggy Loop]

Someone is jealous or blind or both. When it launched it was. Now it no longer is. Is native better? of course it is however the up to 50% performance gain or more is too good to pass up relative to the visual downgrade.

I would argue that no, native is not better either, not native without any aliasing solution at least. It’s too aliased imo. So if you apply TAA, might as well go with the superior DLSS.

Horizon zero dawn on PC basically got all it’s « native res » artifacts, such as foliage shimmers, fixed with DLSS. It looks leagues better than before.

 

[The_Mike]

IF......and a big If, Ethereum 2.0 doesn't get delayed and is finally pushed out mid 2022, 9/10ths of the GPU mining market will collapse. I don't think the other shitcoins can sustain that much hashpower. That'll flood the market with used GPU's and tank demand by at least 50% if not more.

As long as bitcoin exist it doesn't matter what eth does. Eth 2,which kinda is rolled out for the majority of the update, will still be second to the big boy btc.

 

[01011001]

DLSS is a blurry mess, please stop talking about that technology as some kind of magic.
it just kills the imagine quality.

DLSS looks better than native + TAA in many games.
not sure which games you used it in but every game I used it in it looks ridiculously good, especially once you take into account the native res it is upsampling from.

I recently started playing Outriders with friends and in order to get 144fps on almost max settings I use DLSS in balanced mode.
the only telltale sign that I am not running native res in that game is that the DLSS dll the game comes with is an older one that still has issues with trails behind stuff like falling snow and other small particle effects like that.

I could post some side by side images later and you tell me which one is native and which is DLSS balanced. I bet you barely be able to tell the difference, infact you might chose the wrong one based on the fact that the TAA the game comes with literally looks worse

 

[The Cockatrice]

I would argue that no, native is not better either, not native without any aliasing solution at least. It’s too aliased imo. So if you apply TAA, might as well go with the superior DLSS.

Horizon zero dawn on PC basically got all it’s « native res » artifacts, such as foliage shimmers, fixed with DLSS. It looks leagues better than before.

Thats why I never use TAA. You can apply SMAA or FXAA with reshade.

 

[Wildebeest]

If you got severe FOMO syndrome and always need to have the very best of everything, then PC gaming is going to be brutal for you no matter what. Most of us are out here sitting on huge backlogs of games that are not getting any new or more hardware demanding. Lot of them being 2d pixel art games.

Anything could happen in the future, like the one chip fab to rule them all in Taiwan falling into the ocean or being totally fine and increasing production by one hundred times. But historically, it has always been harder to be comfortable with the "screenshot arms race" on PC at the start of a console release cycle than the end. Although there will be console games at the end that have a huge art budget competing in the screenshot arena against PC games made by small teams or designed to run on ten year old PCs. Because large markets are better than impressing some old propeller head who uses old siggraph papers for toilet paper and actually hates games.

 

[Velius]

RTX 3080 Ti here.
PC gaming is fucking awesome

 

[Irobot82]

As long as bitcoin exist it doesn't matter what eth does. Eth 2,which kinda is rolled out for the majority of the update, will still be second to the big boy btc.

Uhh. I don't know if you know this or not, but GPU's are NOT used to mine BTC, they use ASIC's like Antminer. I don't care who is #1 or #2. (well I do as I own BTC). What matters is the GPU mining industry. 9/10ths of the GPU mining industry is ETH, the last 1/10th combined is shitcoins like Raven. So when ETH 2.0 comes out and is PoS, it should crash the market like last time.

 

[GasTheWeebs]

Someone is jealous or blind or both. When it launched it was. Now it no longer is. Is native better? of course it is however the up to 50% performance gain or more is too good to pass up relative to the visual downgrade.

dude I have a 3080 ti and have tested DLSS in many games, it kills the sharpness of the image.
At 4k it's better to disable AA and don't use DLSS.

 

[BlackTron]

Steam broke it's records again this year so business as usual. I would still game on PC at 720p than on a next gen console.

As someone who recently bought a XSX just to play Halo Infinite at better settings than my GTX 1060,

WTF are you smoking? I'm having the same experience as on the PC version, just with twice the FPS and without suffering with Windows 10 and crashes. Should I go back to my lower specs just to feel the comfort of using a PC instead? Strange.

I say this as someone whose primary gaming machine has been a 1060 pushing 1080p for years. The value proposition of a next gen console right now is obscene compared to the PC space. That doesn't take away any usefulness from my existing PC which I will still use for HUNDREDS of games, just not the latest stuff that chokes the 1060.

 

[BlackTron]

Fuck me.

I mean, pc is still better for a crapload of things compared to console, but yeah buying a sex with gamepass doesn't sound like the worse idea ever right now if you already have a ps5.

It's a really really good idea lol. If you want a meaty performance upgrade for a modest price compared to a new video card, and especially if you like Halo.

 

[JackSparr0w]

As someone who recently bought a XSX just to play Halo Infinite at better settings than my GTX 1060,

WTF are you smoking? I'm having the same experience as on the PC version, just with twice the FPS and without suffering with Windows 10 and crashes. Should I go back to my lower specs just to feel the comfort of using a PC instead? Strange.

I say this as someone whose primary gaming machine has been a 1060 pushing 1080p for years. The value proposition of a next gen console right now is obscene compared to the PC space. That doesn't take away any usefulness from my existing PC which I will still use for HUNDREDS of games, just not the latest stuff that chokes the 1060.

I can just never imagine myself gaming on consoles no matter what. I would just stop gaming altogether if PC disappeared.

 

[Hoddi]

PC gaming isn’t going anywhere. Even if you’re stuck with an older RX 480 or GTX 1060 system then chances are that you’re also using a 1080p display. And there are a bazillion games that run quite happily on that.

The idea that everything needs to run at 4k is just blatantly wrong.

 

[tygertrip]

thats just fuckin stupid, gaming on a pc at 720p rather than a next gen console. Folks like you who make the pc vs console bullshit carry on. I hope your not an actual adult. Cringe.

Hush child.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Will last -15 years. PC gaming died 15 years go. Didn't hear from some dirty peasants?

 

[T-Cake]

Funny this thread pops up just as I'm initializing my PS4 before it goes back in its box off to market. The end of an era. PlayStation Now will be my only route to PS exclusives from the beginning of 2022.

My 1070 will do me until the 4xxx cards come along and then I'll just give my money to Michael Dell again. LOL.

 

[adamosmaki]

So what is the alternative ? Waiting god knows how long for a $1000 ps5 ? Where i am ps5 is basically non existence the last year or so
At least Gpus are available albeit at much higher prices
Chip shortages is affecting everything including consoles but eventually it will be sorted out

 

[Kenpachii]

dude I have a 3080 ti and have tested DLSS in many games, it kills the sharpness of the image.
At 4k it's better to disable AA and don't use DLSS.

Good luck with shimmering, loss of detail and huge hit on performance specially at 4k.

 

[Kenpachii]

As it is now, much less people can afford modern graphics cards. In my country, even the lowest tier current card you can buy (the GTX 1660) costs more than 500 euros.

Most of PC builds today are still powered by older generation cards. The luckiest ones being those who managed to buy a 2060/2080 card right before the price surge. But the majority are still on older 1XXX cards. Notice that i'm only mentioning NVIDIA but things aren't much better with AMD. According to STEAM survey, the 1060 is still the most used card.

So, how long those 1060s and 1660s and 2060s are going to support mainstream PC gaming? Based on those stats, it looks like PC gaming is still at the same performance tier as the past generation of consoles. How many PC users can really reach the performance level of a PS5/Series X when the cheapest 3060 costs 850+ euros?

Thankfully, we are still in a "cross-gen" period. Most games are still being made based on the older consoles so if you still have a 1060/1660 tier card, you can still enjoy most of current games with high enough settings at 1080p. But for how much longer? What will happen in 1 or 2 years? I don't see mining slowing down in the near future so if PC gaming is going to be so expensive will it still be around?

Why upgrade when it can play everything under the sun.

those cards u mention are more powerful then whatever the ps4 / xbox had besides the refresh that nobody cared for.

And if needs are actually rought they could always just stream there games if they care.

But honestly the few newer titles that nobody cares for that will release with demanding hardware that won't be playable on a 1060, i don't think many people on PC will care for it. PC is a lot more then console ports or playing the absolute newest games. Peopla are patient as hell on top of it and will wait for a discount or people to simple downgrade the game to make it work, they did the same shit with cyberpunk where they no longer supported old cpu's without avx i believe, and boom mod comes out that fixes it.

The only problem i can see happening is UE5 titles, but frankly what UE5 title is in the make really? and when is it going to be released? anything microsoft makes won't be demanding because of having to support more platforms, PS5 titles? like how long are they already busy with games on EU5? and how done is EU5 to start with. Sony is still busy making games for last gen consoles it seems like, so how long before UE5 god of war is coming out? the same goes for most titles. It's not much relevant. And those ports will also take years to hit PC most likely on top of it and can likely be streamed on nvidia's stream service next day if they really care for it.

People shitting on 1060's don't really understand that those cards hold up perfectly fine today, specially at 1080p at lower settings. 95% of the games really don't require much performance, add with that fsr/nis and u are good to go. a 2060 however is in a entire different league then both of those cards specially with dlss and rt cores.

 

[BusierDonkey]

Seeing a lot of very dated PC FUD in this thread. Disappointing.

 

[Estocolmo]

PC gaming is dead.

 

[BlackTron]

I can just never imagine myself gaming on consoles no matter what. I would just stop gaming altogether if PC disappeared.

It just seems bizarre because you don't have any reasons for it other than not being able to imagine it?

Believe me, I had a very good and intentional reason to buy every piece of gaming hardware that I own. It was always in the pursuit of playing a game I wanted, not out of some biased predisposition towards plastic boxes. NEVER would I say "man, that game is good enough for both my money AND my time, but it's not on my preferred plastic box so I'll just quit gaming instead". I mean how much can you actually like/care about playing great games if that's your thought process???

I play my XSX on the same gaming monitor my PC is hooked up to, with a mouse and keyboard. When I'm in the thick of having fun playing Halo, I can't tell the difference between the game console and the PC and don't even think about it.

 

[Come On Tars]

I don't need to upgrade right now. But my 1080ti (which I can sell at profit haha) Is starting not play newer games max. I was hoping to be able to get on a wait list at least, be it 6 months or something but you can't even do that. So idk if its even possible to get one msrp anymore. Maybe a lucky Best buy day?

 

[Grechy34]

Someone is jealous or blind or both. When it launched it was. Now it no longer is. Is native better? of course it is however the up to 50% performance gain or more is too good to pass up relative to the visual downgrade.

Depends on the game. It's terrible in BF2042.

 

[Grechy34]

I don't need to upgrade right now. But my 1080ti (which I can sell at profit haha) Is starting not play newer games max. I was hoping to be able to get on a wait list at least, be it 6 months or something but you can't even do that. So idk if its even possible to get one msrp anymore. Maybe a lucky Best buy day?

If you compare PC to consoles though, do consoles play games at PC equivalent Ultra settings? I think consoles are mostly high with some medium settings.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I think the bigger issue that neither Nvidia or AMD are considering with the irresponsible pricing is that current pricing of even a entry level RT capable GPU - to run Unreal Engine 5 devtools with nanite/lumen features - is now beyond the budget of most student developers trying to enter the 3D graphics field. Nvidia and AMD might not develop AAA games themselves, but when software frontiers stop being pushed as hard because access to hardware is an issue, demand for their newer GPU hardware technologies will eventually start to be harmed too IMO by developers not utilising the features.

Intel joining the discrete GPU market will probably seek to fix the shortage issue - at least in the short term IMO - by lowballing on price for the first few years, even if they need to subsidies cards and claw the money back elsewhere on CPUs.

Intel probably know that we are within 5-10 years of APUs making discrete GPUs redundant for the majority of the PC home market and possibly predict that they need greater credibility with discrete GPU marketshare, first to stop AMD taking CPU marketshare from them via the high-end APU market we'll see emerge. Unlike Nvidia and AMD, I think Intel have a lot more to lose in the long term if this issue doesn't resolve itself in the next 12months.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I think the bigger issue that neither Nvidia or AMD are considering with the irresponsible pricing is that current pricing of even a entry level RT capable GPU

The cards have msrp and amd does sell all their most recent stuff on their own website at msrp (when there is stock obviously).

The problem moreso is retailers jacking up the prices to get that juicy profit.
All amd/nvidia really would have to do, is run a few ads with the prices, that way, at least here, any store jacking up the prices would be breaking the law with false advertising.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Top and even mid end graphics cards make up like 5% of the total gpus in the stream survey every year, so their unavailability and high prices aren’t really affecting gamers.

As for “irresponsible” prices and “price gouging” - welcome to capitalism. Supply and demand. How do so many people not understand how the world works?

 

[Come On Tars]

If you compare PC to consoles though, do consoles play games at PC equivalent Ultra settings? I think consoles are mostly high with some medium settings.

a console right now compared to my spec pc is probably a steal. I just prefer PC idk if ill ever buy a console again.

 

[Come On Tars]

Guys, what exactly are, in your opinion, a reasonable prices for GPUs?

I feel like 5-7 hundo

 

[supernova8]

If anything, recent trends (of GPUs being constantly sold out regardless of how much retailers jack up their prices) show that people are more than happy (maybe not happy, but certainly willing) to pay crazy prices for mid-tier GPUs. Scalping is only a thing because there are people out there willing to pay those prices. I'm glad I held onto my GTX 1650 and fixed the broken fan. I can't play the latest games at 4K but most of the stuff I'm interested (even up to the harder to run stuff) runs fine on my 1650 at 1080p medium settings.

 

[MightySquirrel]

As it is now, much less people can afford modern graphics cards. In my country, even the lowest tier current card you can buy (the GTX 1660) costs more than 500 euros.

Most of PC builds today are still powered by older generation cards. The luckiest ones being those who managed to buy a 2060/2080 card right before the price surge. But the majority are still on older 1XXX cards. Notice that i'm only mentioning NVIDIA but things aren't much better with AMD. According to STEAM survey, the 1060 is still the most used card.

So, how long those 1060s and 1660s and 2060s are going to support mainstream PC gaming? Based on those stats, it looks like PC gaming is still at the same performance tier as the past generation of consoles. How many PC users can really reach the performance level of a PS5/Series X when the cheapest 3060 costs 850+ euros?

Thankfully, we are still in a "cross-gen" period. Most games are still being made based on the older consoles so if you still have a 1060/1660 tier card, you can still enjoy most of current games with high enough settings at 1080p. But for how much longer? What will happen in 1 or 2 years? I don't see mining slowing down in the near future so if PC gaming is going to be so expensive will it still be around?

youtube algorithm works in mysterious ways

 

[PaintTinJr]

Top and even mid end graphics cards make up like 5% of the total gpus in the stream survey every year, so their unavailability and high prices aren’t really affecting gamers.

As for “irresponsible” prices and “price gouging” - welcome to capitalism. Supply and demand. How do so many people not understand how the world works?

Irresponsible in that they need developers - even the young poor ones - to join the workforce of those using their new hardware and APIs with customers able to use the software (said developers make) targeting their tech.

Think back to the time of shaders coming to the market in GPUs by ATI/nvidia - to replace fixed Hw T&L - and think of the cost of entry for developers and customers compared to the situation with HW RT capable cards, now. An ATI Radeon 7500 or 8500 (can't remember which) was still cheap for devs to try out shader programming compared to the eventual ATI Radeon 970/980 Pro cards enthusiasts needed initially for games like Doom3 that used shaders heavily.

AFAIK it was mentioned on here - at the beginning of this problem - that AMD have a real issue with supply given they supply consoles, PC /laptop OEMS, GPU OEMS and TVs IIRC, while nvidia's scarcity was by design to force up the price, to sell at inflated margins.

My 12GB RTX 3060 is an entry level card and still feels like a entry level card that used to retail in the past for £90-£150. It certainly isn't £480 worth like the MSRP.