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How PlayStation Plus Compares to Xbox Game Pass and Nintendo Switch Online

reksveks

Member
Do we have any data to support whether Xbox is profitable or not at all? I don't think I've ever seen Microsoft break that information out in their financial results.
We have Amy Hood CFO saying Xbox was profitable in 2017 (unlikely to lie imo given the issues that can cause)

Then you have the documents in the Epic case, that puts their profits in the range stated above.

Other than that, we would be retreading old grounds about the financial reporting of Microsoft.
 
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kingfey

Banned
Do we have any data to support whether Xbox is profitable or not at all? I don't think I've ever seen Microsoft break that information out in their financial results.
Wow, just wow.
Do you really think, MS will go out of their way, and invest heavily on service that doesn't make them profit?

The fact that they are ready to spend $75b, should tell you how profitable Xbox is to MS.

Skype, Nokia and Mixer never got that support. And those were services that were failing to put a fight in the market.
 

Topher

Gold Member
We have Amy Hood CFO saying Xbox was profitable in 2017 (unlikely to lie imo given the issues that can cause)

Then you have the documents in the Epic case, that puts their profits in the range stated above.

Other than that, we would be retreading old grounds about the financial reporting of Microsoft.

Fair enough. Thanks.

Edit: I looked it up and you are correct.


Wow, just wow.

You ok?

Do you really think, MS will go out of their way, and invest heavily on service that doesn't make them profit?

The fact that they are ready to spend $75b, should tell you how profitable Xbox is to MS.

Skype, Nokia and Mixer never got that support. And those were services that were failing to put a fight in the market.

Of course Microsoft would invest heavily in something that doesn't make a profit. Companies have been doing that for decades. Either way, R reksveks answered my question without the "wows".
 
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Chukhopops

Member
Do we have any data to support whether Xbox is profitable or not at all? I don't think I've ever seen Microsoft break that information out in their financial results.
There is the info from the Epic vs Apple court case:



Specifically about profit in the gaming industry. Then you can see the rank of each company from what I posted earlier.
 

kingfey

Banned
Hell no Sony's service is a rip off as well.
I was afraid you will say the wrong answer.

For the day1 games, it will be $60 for 3-4 Xbox games. That itself worth a value. There is also 3rd party day1 games, like stalker 2, mlb the show.

Would those games be good? Depend on the taste. It would be like paying for cheap used games. But the experience would vary, depending on the user.

Is it worth it? Yes. Especially when everything outside of gaming is expensive. If you play 6 day1 games on GP at average price of $30 for the entire year, you will save $120. Those can be used on other games.
 
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Of course Microsoft would invest heavily in something that doesn't make a profit. Companies have been doing that for decades. Either way, R reksveks answered my question without the "wows".
They tried to save Windows Phone, by acquiring Nokia MP. They paid phone app devs millions to port their apps on Windows phone.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

Member
I was afraid you will say the wrong answer.

For the day1 games, it will be $60 for 3-4 Xbox games. That itself worth a value. There is also 3rd party day1 games, like stalker 2, mlb the show.

Would those games be good? Depend on the taste. It would be like paying for cheap used games. But the experience would vary, depending on the user.

Is it worth it? Yes. Especially when everything outside of gaming is expensive. If you play 6 day1 games on GP at average price of $30 for the entire year, you will save $300. Those can be used on other games.
Nope! and if a person stopped paying after 5 years what would they be left with?
 
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kingfey

Banned
Mismanagement from MSFT.
Not mismanagement.
They had nothing interesting going for these services.

Nokia was stuck on old times, and couldn't cope with time. Same for mixer and Skype.

The market is gruesome battlefield. If you can't evolve, you will be stuck in the past. Blackberry learned that lesson very hard.
 

kingfey

Banned
Nope! and if a person stopped paying after 5 years what would they be left with?
5 years worth of experience and entertainment.

You aren't going to play every game you bought in the past. No one has time for that. Aside of few games, which you liked the most.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
5 years worth of experience and entertainment.

You aren't going to play every game you bought in the past. No one has time for that. Aside of few games, which you liked the most.
Yes you are going to play games you collected over 5 years.

You are without a point.
 

Topher

Gold Member
:messenger_tears_of_joy: he retired and bought Clippers shortly after that.

Matthew Broderick Jewish GIF
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
We have Amy Hood CFO saying Xbox was profitable in 2017 (unlikely to lie imo given the issues that can cause)

Then you have the documents in the Epic case, that puts their profits in the range stated above.

Other than that, we would be retreading old grounds about the financial reporting of Microsoft.

There is the info from the Epic vs Apple court case:



Specifically about profit in the gaming industry. Then you can see the rank of each company from what I posted earlier.




Oh nice, I wasn't aware of that, didn't exactly follow any docs coming out of the Epic vs Apple thing.

That's one less concern ™ off the table.
 

BigLee74

Member
Yes you are going to play games you collected over 5 years.

You are without a point.
You can still buy games you want as well - it’s not a case of subscribe or purchase!

Even if you don’t, the ones you really want to play again will probably be nice and cheap after 5 years anyway.

It’s all good. Subscribe if you want, or keep buying to own as in yesteryear. I do both.
 
Not mismanagement.
They had nothing interesting going for these services.

Nokia was stuck on old times, and couldn't cope with time. Same for mixer and Skype.

The market is gruesome battlefield. If you can't evolve, you will be stuck in the past. Blackberry learned that lesson very hard.
You're not really selling your point.
Sounds just like bad investments, coupled with serious mismanagement.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

Member
You can still buy games you want as well - it’s not a case of subscribe or purchase!

Even if you don’t, the ones you really want to play again will probably be nice and cheap after 5 years anyway.

It’s all good. Subscribe if you want, or keep buying to own as in yesteryear. I do both.
If I still have to buy the games on top of the $15-18 a month... the service isn't good enough.
If I spend that amount over 5 years and have nothing to show for it when/if I stop paying... I consider that stupidity.
Sony and MS can keep these services.
FYI I do pay for PS+ and XBLG ONLY to play online.
 

T0minator

Member
Just a few clarifications:
- TLOU isn’t even the PS4 version, it’s the PS3 one because none of the ND games for PS4 are on the service permanently. So streaming it is;
- Uncharted 4 isn’t on the service, I haven’t seen it’s getting added but maybe I missed it;
- Spider-Man is the PS4 version. For MM and Death Stranding nobody knows which it’ll be;
- SotC isn’t the PS4 remake but the PS3 one… so again, streaming.

See where I’m going with this? A lot of people never used PSNow and don’t realize just how much stuff isn’t there, even first party. You want to play Resistance 1/2? The last guardian? Motorstorm Pacific Storm? Well tough shit cause they ain’t on the service.

The fact that ND games from last gen aren’t on the service should tell you all you need to know.

Is it going to change? Maybe. Until then don’t compare the two catalogs.

The PS Collection will be on the new PS Plus. Uncharted 4, The Last of us remastered.. SOTC remake as well
 

BigLee74

Member
If I still have to buy the games on top of the $15-18 a month... the service isn't good enough.
If I spend that amount over 5 years and have nothing to show for it when/if I stop paying... I consider that stupidity.
Sony and MS can keep these services.
FYI I do pay for PS+ and XBLG ONLY to play online.
You don’t have to keep paying for 5 years?

(Unless you are Swift_Star Swift_Star of course! Or opt to follow his flawless and completely pragmatic logic whereby you are ignorant and poorly educated if you don’t pay for everything outright in one fell and cheaper ‘interest’ free payment. I’ve been schooled today. You’re never too old to learn new shit on the internet it would seem).

Dip in and out as you see fit.

As my mother would say, no need to cut off your nose to spite your face!
 
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Topher

Gold Member
The PS Collection will be on the new PS Plus. Uncharted 4, The Last of us remastered.. SOTC remake as well

Correct. Here are the PS+ Collection games:

From Worldwide Studios:

  • Bloodborne
  • Days Gone
  • Detroit: Become Human
  • God of War
  • Infamous Second Son
  • Ratchet and Clank
  • The Last Guardian
  • The Last of Us Remastered
  • Until Dawn
  • Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End
From our third-party publishers and developers:

  • Batman: Arkham Knight
  • Battlefield 1
  • Call of Duty: Black Ops III – Zombies Chronicles Edition
  • Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy
  • Fallout 4
  • Final Fantasy XV Royal Edition
  • Monster Hunter: World
  • Mortal Kombat X
  • Persona 5
  • Resident Evil 7 biohazard

 

Swift_Star

Banned
You don’t have to keep paying for 5 years?

(Unless you are Swift_Star Swift_Star of course! Or opt to follow his flawless and completely pragmatic logic whereby you are ignorant and poorly educated if you don’t pay for everything outright in one fell and cheaper ‘interest’ free payment. I’ve been schooled today. You’re never to old to learn new shit on the internet it would seem).

Dip in and out as you see fit.

As my mother would say, no need to cut off your nose to spite your face!
There's no 5 year plan. What a dumb post.
 

kingfey

Banned
Straight up! Why the dumb questions?
Are you going to play all the games on the rental service that you lose when you don't pay?
Yes, I will play as much as I can, While the service is active..

Both are the same. What matters, is that you play the games, instead of hording them.

Every year new games comes out, and your backlog will get even bigger, as long as you buy those games. You wont have the time to play those games again. Unless you really love them.
 

BigLee74

Member
There's no 5 year plan. What a dumb post.
Did I say there was a 5 year plan?

Your reading skills appear to be right up there with your financial skills.

I’ll be sure not to tag you again, because I’m convinced that reading your posts is killing my brain cells such is the drag-factor in intelligence. You can pretended you’re the clever one if it makes you feel better? 🙂👍
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Yes, I will play as much as I can, While the service is active..

Both are the same. What matters, is that you play the games, instead of hording them.

Every year new games comes out, and your backlog will get even bigger, as long as you buy those games. You wont have the time to play those games again. Unless you really love them.
Woa wait a sec!
You are telling me you would play the 400 GP titles and the 700 PS titles but I wouldn't play the 5 years worth of titles I bought? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
They are really two different services with two different goals I think. With that said. I can see a lot of people staying subscribed to both services.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Did I say there was a 5 year plan?

Your reading skills appear to be right up there with your financial skills.

I’ll be sure not to tag you again, because I’m convinced that reading your posts is killing my brain cells such is the drag-factor in intelligence. You can pretended you’re the clever one if it makes you feel better? 🙂👍
Do you have a brain? That's surprising to me. But keep paying more for the same product if that makes you feel good, it's a free country after all. :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
 
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kingfey

Banned
Woa wait a sec!
You are telling me you would play the 400 GP titles and the 700 PS titles but I wouldn't play the 5 years worth of titles I bought? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes, it's hard to convince idiot people, simple things.
 

kingfey

Banned
Did I say there was a 5 year plan?

Your reading skills appear to be right up there with your financial skills.

I’ll be sure not to tag you again, because I’m convinced that reading your posts is killing my brain cells such is the drag-factor in intelligence. You can pretended you’re the clever one if it makes you feel better? 🙂👍
Its the type of people that likes to act very smart, about savings. And would happily pay big installment at once.
 

Faithless83

Banned
Wtf is this logic?
You think the 1.6-2.3BN number from the court case is the total profit of Microsoft? For a whole year? You think MS as a whole makes less profit than Nintendo?

Just trying to assess the brain damage here.
You think Microsoft makes 1.6-2.3bn in profit in a year? The whole company? What division?

If not, what's the number representing?
Wow... I'll have to explain that Xbox is not Microsoft, but a segment of it, huh?
Remember when Microsoft dropped the Windows Phone? They dropped the division, same as SEGA dropped console manufacturing.
They are still in business, and profitable, but they ditched the segment that wasn't.

Microsoft won't bleed money forever for Xbox.
Gamepass was a way that Microsoft came up so the devs don't ignore Xbox.

"Hey I'll pay this much for your game to be on our platform."
"Ok, fine."

Problem with that is, pretty soon xbox will be a gamepass machine (I have a few friends that bought a xbox for gamepass and that's it). They are not buying games on it. Some are grinding achievements so they don't have to pay for it monthly.

No attach ratio, big investments and everything is day one on gamepass.
Hint, there is no infinite money folks. They have a deadline to start pulling their weight, same as the phone division.
It will get to the point that it's not viable anymore.
 

kingfey

Banned
Wow... I'll have to explain that Xbox is not Microsoft, but a segment of it, huh?
Remember when Microsoft dropped the Windows Phone? They dropped the division, same as SEGA dropped console manufacturing.
They are still in business, and profitable, but they ditched the segment that wasn't.

Microsoft won't bleed money forever for Xbox.
Gamepass was a way that Microsoft came up so the devs don't ignore Xbox.

"Hey I'll pay this much for your game to be on our platform."
"Ok, fine."

Problem with that is, pretty soon xbox will be a gamepass machine (I have a few friends that bought a xbox for gamepass and that's it). They are not buying games on it. Some are grinding achievements so they don't have to pay for it monthly.

No attach ratio, big investments and everything is day one on gamepass.
Hint, there is no infinite money folks. They have a deadline to start pulling their weight, same as the phone division.
It will get to the point that it's not viable anymore.
That is fucking dumb logic.

Xbox isn't a shit gamepass machine.

They have a system, which 3rd party sell their games on. They generate 30% on each of those sales. They also have xbox live gold, which generates pure profit (monthly games are garbage). They also sell accessories, which makes alot of money.
They sell their games on windows store, and steam. That is extra revenue.

The entire platform makes money. Just because xbox one happened, doesn't mean Xbox doesn't make any profit at all. It's just that their 1st party output is shit. The rest of the business is booming, because 3rd party developers still out their games on xbox. Or else, they wouldn't have done that.

Ps3 made huge dent on PS. But still PS3 was profitable, despite the huge loss on hardwares.
3rd party sales, and accessories negates those loses, and bring money for the company.
 
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Wow... I'll have to explain that Xbox is not Microsoft, but a segment of it, huh?
Remember when Microsoft dropped the Windows Phone? They dropped the division, same as SEGA dropped console manufacturing.
They are still in business, and profitable, but they ditched the segment that wasn't.

Microsoft won't bleed money forever for Xbox.
Gamepass was a way that Microsoft came up so the devs don't ignore Xbox.

"Hey I'll pay this much for your game to be on our platform."
"Ok, fine."

Problem with that is, pretty soon xbox will be a gamepass machine (I have a few friends that bought a xbox for gamepass and that's it). They are not buying games on it. Some are grinding achievements so they don't have to pay for it monthly.

No attach ratio, big investments and everything is day one on gamepass.
Hint, there is no infinite money folks. They have a deadline to start pulling their weight, same as the phone division.
It will get to the point that it's not viable anymore.
Thanks for your concern. Sadly for you, they're not bleeding any money. People are also still buying games. Xbox is posting record numbers every year :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
 

reksveks

Member
Wow... I'll have to explain that Xbox is not Microsoft, but a segment of it, huh?
Remember when Microsoft dropped the Windows Phone? They dropped the division, same as SEGA dropped console manufacturing.
They are still in business, and profitable, but they ditched the segment that wasn't.

Microsoft won't bleed money forever for Xbox.
Gamepass was a way that Microsoft came up so the devs don't ignore Xbox.

"Hey I'll pay this much for your game to be on our platform."
"Ok, fine."

Problem with that is, pretty soon xbox will be a gamepass machine (I have a few friends that bought a xbox for gamepass and that's it). They are not buying games on it. Some are grinding achievements so they don't have to pay for it monthly.

No attach ratio, big investments and everything is day one on gamepass.
Hint, there is no infinite money folks. They have a deadline to start pulling their weight, same as the phone division.
It will get to the point that it's not viable anymore.
I asked a question and then you went on a completely different "diatribe", okay?

Again you are ignoring the fact the MS's CFO has said xbox is profitable but okay.

Also you want to show where software revenue has declined for xbox cause of GP?
 
You can still buy games you want as well - it’s not a case of subscribe or purchase!

Even if you don’t, the ones you really want to play again will probably be nice and cheap after 5 years anyway.

It’s all good. Subscribe if you want, or keep buying to own as in yesteryear. I do both.
Net result - you spend MORE money than you otherwise would, but feel like you're saving money. Exactly, the desired result.
 

Lognor

Banned
Net result - you spend MORE money than you otherwise would, but feel like you're saving money. Exactly, the desired result.
How do you figure?

Game Pass SAVES you money, not the other way around. What that poster is talking about is OPTIONS. And options have value. If there is a game you loved on Game Pass that is coming off the service, yes, you can still buy it. And at a discount! It's a fantastic value prop!

But for you, without a Game Pass type of service, you need to spend $70 on every game you want. And you may hate it. But you've still wasted that $70. With Game Pass, you can try a game, hate it and then delete it. And it costs you $0. I did that very thing with Scarlet Nexus, most recently. It's a beautiful thing. That game got good reviews and without Game Pass I might have spent $70 on it. Only to find out it's terrible. Now I gotta try to resell this for $20 or just suck up the cost. Nah. Game Pass is superior. And yes, it does save you money. Believe me. I've been using it for over a year now. Saved so much money!
 

kingfey

Banned
Yeah, because $120 is a lot of money, it’s a price close to a house’s, right?
You people go the mile to look and sound dumb. Amazing.
First sign of ignorance, is believing a big installment is saving. When in reality, you are pretty much locked in to that service.

2nd thing, is making $120 an easy money.

You are really out of touch from reality buddy.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Sometimes, it's hard to convince idiot people, simple things.
Simple things? You have yet to make a point and are all over the place.
I won't call you a idiot like you are doing to me but you most definitely have a comprehension issue and I don't think you even read what people post or even what you write.

My suggestion is stay out of grown folk talk as you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
 

kingfey

Banned
Simple things? You have yet to make a point and are all over the place.
I won't call you a idiot like you are doing to me but you most definitely have a comprehension issue and I don't think you even read what people post or even what you write.

My suggestion is stay out of grown folk talk as you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Points which you completely ignored, and countered it with stupid points.

1 year of subscription service, will give you THE ABILITY TO PLAY THOSE GAMES.
Buying games, would be restricted to YOUR BUDGET. Even if we ignore the budget, the number of games you will accumulate would be too much.

ONCE YOU PLAY A GAME, YOU WONT PLAY IT AGAIN, UNLESS YOU LIKE THAT GAME. Basically, all your bought games would be collecting dust, or rot on your digital library.

Last point, since you will argue about it.

YOU BUY GAMES TO PLAY THEM. NOT HOARD THEM LIKE A DRAGON.

They offer the same experience, which any subscription service will give you. PLAY THE GAME.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Points which you completely ignored, and countered it with stupid points.

1 year of subscription service, will give you THE ABILITY TO PLAY THOSE GAMES.
Buying games, would be restricted to YOUR BUDGET. Even if we ignore the budget, the number of games you will accumulate would be too much.

ONCE YOU PLAY A GAME, YOU WONT PLAY IT AGAIN, UNLESS YOU LIKE THAT GAME. Basically, all your bought games would be collecting dust, or rot on your digital library.

Last point, since you will argue about it.

YOU BUY GAMES TO PLAY THEM. NOT HOARD THEM LIKE A DRAGON.

They offer the same experience, which any subscription service will give you. PLAY THE GAME.
Yikes you are a mess!

RENTING games restricts you to your budget as well and you have nothing to show when/if you stop paying.

2020 and 2021 for example didn't have more than 4 or 5 games worth buying.
Which=a comparable price to buying and the added premium=me owning the games I like.

5 years worth of game collecting is a much better proposition to most.
(game rental subscription service numbers are super niche)
5 years of renting games gives you nothing the second you stop paying.

Most of my 5 years of game buying is made up of games that I can play over the years.

Buying/Playing/Collecting Games and having something to show for it FTW.
 

kingfey

Banned
RENTING games restricts you to your budget as well and you have nothing to show when/if you stop paying.
You play games. That is like going to a movie. Its the same as experiencing a bought disc movie.
That is what you do, when you access a game. Unless you are a collector and don't play games. Then yes, subscription service is useless to you.


2020 and 2021 for example didn't have more than 4 or 5 games worth buying.
Which=a comparable price to buying and the added premium=me owning the games I like.
You are buying playtime. Your owned games, act as a replay to you.
Most people, play the game, and be done with it. Sell it, and get their investments back. Others, store it , and never use it again.
Its no different than a subscription service.

If I boot up, GOTG, and finished the game, that is it. I am not gonna play it again. I know the game, I play it. Finished it. There is nothing more, I can get it.


5 years worth of game collecting is a much better proposition to most.
(game rental subscription service numbers are super niche)
5 years of renting games gives you nothing the second you stop paying.
You get 5 years of gameplay. You dont sit down like old lady, and stare at the screen. You play the games, the service has.
What ever you collected, means nothing. If you played it. The value is gone. You opened the game, and finished it. There is nothing more there.

Unless you are the type of people, that likes to play the same games, again and again. It's really means nothing.

Your bought game, is like watching the same movie you can watch on netflix, for the 19th time.


Most of my 5 years of game buying is made up of games that I can play over the years.
Over the years, means collecting dusts. Because every year, there is a new game. Your 5 year old games, will get replaced, by the new games.

I have 700+ digital games, and close to 50 disc games for OG xbox.
I dont play them, because I am busy with the new games that come out this year. They are making me busy. I dont have the time, to open those 700+ games.

That is the value of your bought games. Unless, you have a game that you like alot, you wont pay attention to them, once you finish them.


Buying/Playing/Collecting Games and having something to show for it FTW.
You dont have anything to show for it, other than bragging rights.
 
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