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[IllegalLemon]

The real head scratcher is the pics with superior graphics was confirmed to be real gameplay captured on PS5. Wtf happened? Clearly ps5 can manage with the higher fidelity so why remove it?

Possibly because the Luminous Engine is a pain in the ass to use. Forspoken is the 2nd game to use it (preceded by FFXV) and it looks like absolute trash. Even FFXV looked better. Or maybe, morale at the studio dropped after Hajime Tabata resigned from Square and the dev team just gave up and settled for the lowest common denominator in terms of graphical fidelity and everything went only downhill from there. Either way, the game was way different than what it was originally promised to be.

 

[CartesianMan]

There is no dev in the world who intentionally lovers the quality of the graphics. It's all happens because of the optimization. The game should run in reasonable FPS in wild range of machines.
We should stop blaming them.

 

[Metnut]

They aren’t getting away with anything. The game is bombing.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

There is no dev in the world who intentionally lovers the quality of the graphics. It's all happens because of the optimization. The game should run in reasonable FPS in wild range of machines.
We should stop blaming them.

Wouldnt the argument be if a game gets time to polish and optimize it, the final game should look better than promo trailers from a year or two ago?

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

There is no dev in the world who intentionally lovers the quality of the graphics. It's all happens because of the optimization. The game should run in reasonable FPS in wild range of machines.
We should stop blaming them.

Intentional or not it's the fault of the developers and there should not be a downgrade of THIS degree, in any game.

Small changes is one thing but a game shouldn't come out looking a generation apart from their origonal trailers.

 

[hussar16]

Wouldnt the argument be if a game gets time to polish and optimize it, the final game should look better than promo trailers from a year or two ago?

The thing is they tell you it's to "optomize" but reality is 90 percent of the time it's to downgrade to run

 

[luca_29_bg]

Happy I could make you laugh luca_29_bg
I even made him laugh with the post where I actually went to the location of cropped/compressed screenshot purposefully made to shit on the game and provided a 4k screengrab.

Come on Rofif, the game is mediocre from a technical point of view (except VFX for magic effects) and i laugh because you're so stubborn in defending it! Come on!!!!

​

 

[CartesianMan]

Intentional or not it's the fault of the developers and there should not be a downgrade of THIS degree, in any game.

Small changes is one thing but a game shouldn't come out looking a generation apart from their origonal trailers.

At the time of the reveal trailers the games are usually are between early and deep production stage. And often the materials are from art benchmarks (the desired quality of graphics and showcase of the art direction), selected from the most completed parts of the game, or are from specially created vertical slices. At least those are my observations. The purpose of this trailers is to sell the game and build the hype.
Because the game is still creating a lot of elements are in the air - game design, art, optimization, narrative, level design.
Programmers and technical support such as tech artist are working on other more important tasks.
The optimization came latter in production. During the production before let's say early beta milestone the creature is still shaping, evolving and forming.
Of course the game dev want's to create best possible game and they are pushing to the limits each time they are gamers just like you and me.
The only sin (probably) is that the game is revealed too early. But there is a reason - you need to market your product.
So when the optimization starts there are some casualties, mainly from the graphics department. Studios approaches differently this stage and the results are different.
Sony studious for instance are showing only footage that runs on PS5 (the target hardware).
I think this is a result of the controversy around the revealing of the PS3 games when they announced the console. If you remember they are all running of buffed PCs and not at the actual hardware. (Killozne 2, Motorstorm - etc.)

 

[rofif]

Come on Rofif, the game is mediocre from a technical point of view (except VFX for magic effects) and i laugh because you're so stubborn in defending it! Come on!!!!

​

I wanted to give it a fair chance to be honest. I don't think it's so bad looking or playing.
Maybe I want to like the game more than it deserves, not sure

 

[fermcr]

why isn't this illegal?!!!!!!
how many times we gonna get fucked over like this before the sheep actually wake up?

hi

s

It's not downgrades... it's optimization.

 

[Panajev2001a]

At the time of the reveal trailers the games are usually are between early and deep production stage. And often the materials are from art benchmarks (the desired quality of graphics and showcase of the art direction), selected from the most completed parts of the game, or are from specially created vertical slices. At least those are my observations. The purpose of this trailers is to sell the game and build the hype.
Because the game is still creating a lot of elements are in the air - game design, art, optimization, narrative, level design.
Programmers and technical support such as tech artist are working on other more important tasks.
The optimization came latter in production. During the production before let's say early beta milestone the creature is still shaping, evolving and forming.
Of course the game dev want's to create best possible game and they are pushing to the limits each time they are gamers just like you and me.
The only sin (probably) is that the game is revealed too early. But there is a reason - you need to market your product.
So when the optimization starts there are some casualties, mainly from the graphics department. Studios approaches differently this stage and the results are different.
Sony studious for instance are showing only footage that runs on PS5 (the target hardware).
I think this is a result of the controversy around the revealing of the PS3 games when they announced the console. If you remember they are all running of buffed PCs and not at the actual hardware. (Killozne 2, Motorstorm - etc.)

For what I remember and was using buffer up PC’s for Xbox 360 and Xbox One, Killzone 2 trailer was pure offline CG .

 

[Spaceman292]

It seems like the game flopped, so it they didn't really get away with it this time

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Because no one actually cares about graphics anymore except boomers who post on message boards.

Honestly, graphics are insanely overvalued at places like NeoGAF. Gameplay has been king for decades now.

I think on a given day you could possibly win this argument, but here where people actually like* those "let me just Zoom in 400%" digital foundry videos you're going to struggle without serious time investment and even then you'll suffer the slings and arrows of a thousand gifs.

*Result dependent.

 

[Krathoon]

Forespoken takes place in a gigantic world. It is optimization. It takes a lot to render it.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Luminous Engine needs to be deleted

 

[Herr Edgy]

Wouldnt the argument be if a game gets time to polish and optimize it, the final game should look better than promo trailers from a year or two ago?

No
Optimization = downgrading in many cases.
It's easy to slap 4k textures on everything which runs just fine on 15k $ workstations, but not on consumer hardware.
The art of game optimization is sacrifcing as little as possible to maintain the visual fidelity you already had going on your workstation.
You work with a perf budget, if stuff is above the budget, you gotta cut

 

[Umbasaborne]

It's not downgrades... it's optimization.

Id call it false advertising

 

[rofif]

Forespoken takes place in a gigantic world. It is optimization. It takes a lot to render it.

Luminous Engine needs to be deleted

Seriously. The world is huge. Clouds are moving, lighting is changing, volumetric fog can come and go. It's not static in this regard. Although there is no dynamic time of day or raining I think.
IMO it looks fantastic. Luminous engine will die sadly. I say sadly because it looks and feels unique. Not another Unreal game you know?
Great draw distances and no loading.
(tv pics because HDR looks great in this)

 

[HTK]

A better question to ask OP is;

How do you keep falling for it?

 

[NightmareFarm]

Seriously. The world is huge. Clouds are moving, lighting is changing, volumetric fog can come and go. It's not static in this regard. Although there is no dynamic time of day or raining I think.
IMO it looks fantastic. Luminous engine will die sadly. I say sadly because it looks and feels unique. Not another Unreal game you know?
Great draw distances and no loading.
(tv pics because HDR looks great in this)

I've been shilling hard for this game until my PS5 broke last december and even I have to admit the game looks like shit from a visual/technical standpoint. The particle effects look top notch and select textures here and there look good if you cherrypick them but apart from that it looks like an early PS4 game and an ugly one at that.

Horizon Zero Dawn from 2017 looks a lot better all across the board. The luminous engine is just crap and I have no doubt the game would look much closer to the original vision if it was made on a better engine.

 

[rofif]

I've been shilling hard for this game until my PS5 broke last december and even I have to admit the game looks like shit from a visual/technical standpoint. The particle effects look top notch and select textures here and there look good if you cherrypick them but apart from that it looks like an early PS4 game and an ugly one at that.

I have 100 shots from this game. It looks fantastic.
There are some bad spots but most look good.
Maybe play with HDR or something?

it is not a ps4 game. The amount of detail is kinda insane. So is view distance

 

[NightmareFarm]

I have 100 shots from this game. It looks fantastic.
There are some bad spots but most look good.
Maybe play with HDR or something?

it is not a ps4 game. The amount of detail is kinda insane. So is view distance

Look good compared to what? A PS3 game?

Horizon Zero Dawn from 2017 looks far superior.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Killzone 2 has been surpassed and lost it's Bullshot record.

 

[rofif]

Look good compared to what? A PS3 game?

Horizon Zero Dawn from 2017 looks far superior.

It looks way better than horizon zero dawn. Maybe start it up to compare

 

[remember_spinal]

It looks better than Zero Dawn to me, not really close to Forbidden West, but most games aren’t. Even all the non-sony next gen games

 

[deeptech]

well, idk how much these devs went away with judging that game isn't popular at all, isn't a hit or anything near, and obviously trash visuals for it being a ps5 based game are just one aspect, another is that it's just garbage as a game anyway.

 

[rofif]

well, idk how much these devs went away with judging that game isn't popular at all, isn't a hit or anything near, and obviously trash visuals for it being a ps5 based game are just one aspect, another is that it's just garbage as a game anyway.

Have you played it? Because everything you said I cannot agree it. The opposite.
Is this your opinion?

 

[deeptech]

Have you played it? Because everything you said I cannot agree it. The opposite.
Is this your opinion?

no, i look at a screenshot or a short video and decide if it's worth my time, of course the latter is my opinion obviously, but the former is simply factual

 

[NightmareFarm]

It looks way better than horizon zero dawn. Maybe start it up to compare

 

[Rendered Tangent]

I've always wondered what kind of pc game developers use to produce such incredible graphics.

They can't be using conventional consume grade hardware otherwise there'd be no need for such a visual downgrade when they release - at least as far as how it would look and run on the most powerful GPU and CPU combination on the market.

Any ideas?

 

[rofif]

troll harder. Pick the worst, compresset screenshots you like. I posted my screenshots above and on previous pages.

 

[NightmareFarm]

troll harder. Pick the worst, compresset screenshots you like. I posted my screenshots above and on previous pages.

I put both in 1080p. Forspoken doesn't look anywhere near ZD graphically.

 

[rofif]

I put both in 1080p. Forspoken doesn't look anywhere near ZD graphically.

what you put in 1080p?
These are 10% jpg compressed screenshots from some video lol.
Horizon looks worse and that's it.
1080p lol. what is this 2008?!

 

[March Climber]

Wouldnt the argument be if a game gets time to polish and optimize it, the final game should look better than promo trailers from a year or two ago?

This would happen if the game were in another engine.

I don't understand why people are arguing for multiple pages of posts just to come to the realization that they always knew: Luminous Engine is garbage.

Even Square Enix knows this. Look into their future projects and what engines they are on. They wasted a large amount of money. Again. It happens

 

[yamaci17]

what you put in 1080p?
These are 10% jpg compressed screenshots from some video lol.
Horizon looks worse and that's it.
1080p lol. what is this 2008?!

this is weirdest hill i've seen you choose to die on man xd

 

[EDMIX]

Seriously. The world is huge. Clouds are moving, lighting is changing, volumetric fog can come and go. It's not static in this regard. Although there is no dynamic time of day or raining I think.
IMO it looks fantastic. Luminous engine will die sadly. I say sadly because it looks and feels unique. Not another Unreal game you know?
Great draw distances and no loading.
(tv pics because HDR looks great in this)

I can't wait to pick this game up, your screens have convinced me lol

I might get a copy during the summer if FFXVI or Diablo IV gets delayed or something.

NightmareFarm using such pics doesn't even help your point, it merely looks like you have a deep bias against the game thus start showing compressed and blurry images or something.

You are free to feel it doesn't look as good as HZD or something, but this whole thing of trying to find or manufacture the worst image doesn't make me believe you. So thus far, I've decided to buy the game based on the honest responses vs the compressed screens.

I mean shit, the people literally playing the fucking game on PS5 have shared screen shots with me via PSN and clearly they don't fucking look like anything you posted, thus I simply can't believe any of your claims.

Why would anyone going forward?

So I could believe the screens you shared or those actually playing the game...

 

[rofif]

I can't wait to pick this game up, your screens have convinced me lol

I might get a copy during the summer if FFXVI or Diablo IV gets delayed or something.

Should be 5$ until then. So you will not be disappointed either way lol

 

[NightmareFarm]

I can't wait to pick this game up, your screens have convinced me lol

I might get a copy during the summer if FFXVI or Diablo IV gets delayed or something.

NightmareFarm using such pics doesn't even help your point, it merely looks like you have a deep bias against the game thus start showing compressed and blurry images or something.

You are free to feel it doesn't look as good as HZD or something, but this whole thing of trying to find or manufacture the worst image doesn't make me believe you. So thus far, I've decided to buy the game based on the honest responses vs the compressed screens.

I mean shit, the people literally playing the fucking game on PS5 have shared screen shots with me via PSN and clearly they don't fucking look like anything you posted, thus I simply can't believe any of your claims.

Why would anyone going forward?

So I could believe the screens you shared or those actually playing the game...

So now that i've posted comparisons which proved Forspoken is worse looking the goalposts are being shifted over to "you purposely used the wrong images!" even though I just snipped 1080p footage for both using similar environments(grassy area)? Textbook cop out tactics.

Also how do I have a bias against it, when I was constantly defending the game in the past few months. I don't even think it's a bad game, but it's just FACT that it's graphically weaker than Zero Dawn. You have to be trolling to think otherwise it's so obvious. Forspoken looks like a early PS4 title at best.

 

[rofif]

So now that i've posted comparisons which proved Forspoken is worse looking the goalposts are being shifted over to "you purposely used the wrong images!" even though I just snipped 1080p footage for both using similar environments(grassy area)? Textbook cop out tactics.

Also how do I have a bias against it, when I was constantly defending the game in the past few months. I don't even think it's a bad game, but it's just FACT that it's graphically weaker than Zero Dawn. You have to be trolling to think otherwise it's so obvious. Forspoken looks like a early PS4 title at best.

You clown.
You used bad, compressed images. You are not fooling anyone with your hate agenda.

 

[NightmareFarm]

You clown.
You used bad, compressed images. You are not fooling anyone with your hate agenda.

Yeah, you guys are 100% trolling. Should have been obvious from the start.

 

[EDMIX]

So now that i've posted comparisons which proved Forspoken is

No bud, you posted a bunch of compressed shit to try to pass it off as some native screen shot.

I've already seen screens from actual users on PSN.

You are not going to win much from double downing on this either. You made a mistake, should have taken your own screen shots and move on.

I mean shit, why would I believe you when I literally can see people playing it on their PS5s and they are sending me screens telling me about the game? I don't even see the fucking point to your post, I've already seen the fucking game running on PS5....it doesn't look like what you posted.

Thats it.

You can keep crying about it or claiming people are trolling, but we literally can SEE THE ACTUAL GAME, I own a PS5, I played the demo, I see the native screens several users have sent me.

Your feelings regarding it compared to HZD are irrelevant. I've seen enough from actual legit sources to make my choice. That isn't trolling bud, that is reality.

Not some compressed screen you are desperately holding on to as "proof" lol I'd respect your view better if it was a screen shot that was legit vs compressed to force a fake narrative. You can feel one looks better then the other and show BOTH REAL screens and you'd never hear me argue against that, you are free to feel that way, but the moment you start using doctored images, compressed images etc to force a point, I'm actually never going to believe your view is something genuine.

As in, if I tell you had I had issues with CP2077 on here, I don't need to lie or fake something or doctor something to prove my issue with it or something, enough valid real things exist that can be used and using some compressed image over and over and over would only cheapen my point. I don't know why you think using that screen is going to help you in all of this.

Its having the opposite effect btw.

 

[yamaci17]

what you put in 1080p?
These are 10% jpg compressed screenshots from some video lol.
Horizon looks worse and that's it.
1080p lol. what is this 2008?!

what is this arrogant attitude? what is it with you and 1080p? ps5 cannot even properly average 1080p with bad tier upscaling fsr 2.0 in this game, yet somehow you act lordly over 1080p/1440p and so on.

when cornered, you slyly talk about how "what do you want!! what graphics!! gameplay important!! fun is important!! why so technical!1" then talk shit about 1080p as if it is not a technicality. accept or not, 1080p/1440p is the end point where your precious PS5 will end up. then you will talk about resolution is not important (i mean you already do, in this game's case), then talk shit about 1080p anyways

you're really an interesting case.

game at native 1080p looks literally better than whatever PS5 is trying to muster with FSR2.0 upscaling to 1440p with very low resolutions. this is the experience of many, from DF to various other forums, image quality and resolution quality of PS5 is being criticised. maybe you like what quality mode gives you at 1080p-1200p internal res. upscaled to 4k, but even that is not bright, because playing with the compromise of 30 FPS is a you thing.

you say "1080p, what is this 2008?!" then someone will come up and say "30 fps, what is this, 2005?!" then you will talk about how framerate is not that important yadda yadda (despite low 30 fps framerates destroying motion clarity in games).

 

[NightmareFarm]

No bud, you posted a bunch of compressed shit to try to pass it off as some native screen shot.

I've already seen screens from actual users on PSN.

You are not going to win much from double downing on this either. You made a mistake, should have taken your own screen shots and move on.

I mean shit, why would I believe you when I literally can see people playing it on their PS5s and they are sending me screens telling me about the game? I don't even see the fucking point to your post, I've already seen the fucking game running on PS5....it doesn't look like what you posted.

Thats it.

You can keep crying about it or claiming people are trolling, but we literally can SEE THE ACTUAL GAME, I own a PS5, I played the demo, I see the native screens several users have sent me.

Your feelings regarding it compared to HZD are irrelevant. I've seen enough from actual legit sources to make my choice. That isn't trolling bud, that is reality.

Not some compressed screen you are desperately holding on to as "proof" lol I'd respect your view better if it was a screen shot that was legit vs compressed to force a fake narrative. You can feel one looks better then the other and show BOTH REAL screens and you'd never hear me argue against that, you are free to feel that way, but the moment you start using doctored images, compressed images etc to force a point, I'm actually never going to believe your view is something genuine.

As in, if I tell you had I had issues with CP2077 on here, I don't need to lie or fake something or doctor something to prove my issue with it or something, enough valid real things exist that can be used and using some compressed image over and over and over would only cheapen my point. I don't know why you think using that screen is going to help you in all of this.

Its having the opposite effect btw.

Post non compressed clear photos of the foliage and also a photo of Frey in a cutscene then if you think i'm "biased" or whatever. Try it. Let's see how that compares to the HZD photos I sent.

 

[NightmareFarm]

what is this arrogant attitude? what is it with you and 1080p? ps5 cannot even properly average 1080p with bad tier upscaling fsr 2.0 in this game, yet somehow you act lordly over 1080p/1440p and so on.

when cornered, you slyly talk about how "what do you want!! what graphics!! gameplay important!! fun is important!! why so technical!1" then talk shit about 1080p as if it is not a technicality. accept or not, 1080p/1440p is the end point where your precious PS5 will end up. then you will talk about resolution is not important (i mean you already do, in this game's case), then talk shit about 1080p anyways

you're really an interesting case.

game at native 1080p looks literally better than whatever PS5 is trying to muster with FSR2.0 upscaling to 1440p with very low resolutions. this is the experience of many, from DF to various other forums, image quality and resolution quality of PS5 is being criticised. maybe you like what quality mode gives you at 1080p-1200p internal res. upscaled to 4k, but even that is not bright, because playing with the compromise of 30 FPS is a you thing.

you say "1080p, what is this 2008?!" then someone will come up and say "30 fps, what is this, 2005?!" then you will talk about how framerate is not that important yadda yadda (despite low 30 fps framerates destroying motion clarity in games).

I can't even believe we're entertaining this ridiculous shit. It's so obvious to anyone with a pair of functioning eyes which game looks better. Legit feel like i'm just wasting my time here lmao.

 

[rofif]

what is this arrogant attitude? what is it with you and 1080p? ps5 cannot even properly average 1080p with bad tier upscaling fsr 2.0 in this game, yet somehow you act lordly over 1080p/1440p and so on.

when cornered, you slyly talk about how "what do you want!! what graphics!! gameplay important!! fun is important!! why so technical!1" then talk shit about 1080p as if it is not a technicality. accept or not, 1080p/1440p is the end point where your precious PS5 will end up. then you will talk about resolution is not important (i mean you already do, in this game's case), then talk shit about 1080p anyways

you're really an interesting case.

game at native 1080p looks literally better than whatever PS5 is trying to muster with FSR2.0 upscaling to 1440p with very low resolutions. this is the experience of many, from DF to various other forums, image quality and resolution quality of PS5 is being criticised. maybe you like what quality mode gives you at 1080p-1200p internal res. upscaled to 4k, but even that is not bright, because playing with the compromise of 30 FPS is a you thing.

you say "1080p, what is this 2008?!" then someone will come up and say "30 fps, what is this, 2005?!" then you will talk about how framerate is not that important yadda yadda (despite low 30 fps framerates destroying motion clarity in games).

I am mocking him. He posted low res screengrabs from washed out video.

 

[yamaci17]

I am mocking him. He posted low res screengrabs from washed out video.

sry bro but i tried this with 4k/dlss balanced (nearly looks like native 4k). it still does not hold a candle to the last of us part 2 i saw on base ps4 or rdr 2 at 1080p. just the other day my friend was playing hzd on his trusty old 1070 at 1080p/60 and yes, it still looked better than forspoken

sorry, your screenshots do not convince me either. you can make anything look more beautiful, pronounced and high quality when you take photograph them through a TV from a distance. post us native PNG shots, then we can judge.

 

[rofif]

Post non compressed clear photos of the foliage and also a photo of Frey in a cutscene then if you think i'm "biased" or whatever. Try it. Let's see how that compares to the HZD photos I sent.

ok?

 

[EDMIX]

Post non compressed clear photos of the foliage and also a photo of Frey in a cutscene then if you think i'm "biased" or whatever. Try it. Let's see how that compares to the HZD photos I sent.

I don't fucking care bud lol, I've seen enough actual real screens to make my choice.

I can't even believe we're entertaining this ridiculous shit. It's so obvious to anyone with a pair of functioning eyes which game looks better. Legit feel like i'm just wasting my time here lmao.

Thats a subjective opinion though... What anyone feels looks "better" is down to their own personal taste.

I feel HZD looks better too and I'm still fucking buying this game and think the game looks just fine..

Stop fucking fighting with everyone one here as if they need to bash the fucking game or something if they think another game looks "better" lol I think MOST games don't look better then The Last Of Us 2, yet shit here I am buying and playing games I love.

Its not a fight.

You can like 2 games and feel one looks better or something.

Its ok to play and like many games, that isn't trolling, that is real life.

 

[yamaci17]

those trees look worth the 900p 60 fps on ps5 to you?
lool it looks horrible. foliage 20 meters in front of you are literal mush.
horrible draw distance (yes it is horrible) is being hidden away with blatant use of fog. no fog exists there (you can go there, fog will dissipate). such fog tactics were commonly used on PS2 titles (for example: san andreas) to hid blatantly bad draw distance detailing

rdr2 fog system is 100x better than this one. its not even interactive with its environment. it just... exists there.

clouds move? fogs exists? bro what? what kind of open world games have you been playing, are you stuck in ps3 era ones or what? the screenshot you shared shares a lot of merits from shadow of the colossus. go launch it on your PS5, logically you should find it equally impressive

lighting is flat. as John linneman on DF pointed out, Witcher 3 with its RTGI looks better while somehow (i dont know ) performing better than this game on a PS5

 

[NightmareFarm]

ok?

The lighting, environments and foliage are noticeably weaker. Look at the grass. Look at the trees. Cutscenes are comparable(ZD is still slightly better) although ZD cutscene quality is more consistent whereas Forspoken has some rough looking cutscenes.