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[Guilty_AI]

So a triggered cutscene? How is that different to a triggered cutscene in the witcher?

What's particular bad about that last of us moment just seems like a regular cutscenes.

At least you explained yourself to me dialogue text and cutscenes basically serve the same purpose.

I'am really not a fan of dialogue trees either there very unnatural I think

Its about control and predictability. A conversation in a RPG is something you're in full control of - and i don't mean that merely by having dialogue trees.
You decide when to start it, you know what effects it'll have and what to expect from this action. Its a mechanic.

That TLoU scene i showed happens out of nowhere, the game randomly decides to snatch the character control from you, and it randomly decides Joel will take cover behind that car and that you'll have to go from there.
Its not a particular bad case but there are further jarring things about that specific sequence, like how you can't snipe the shooter from afar, or how once you get to where he is he'll always ambush you and trigger a quicktime event regardless of what you do.




You can't enter carefully, you can't throw a grenade in the room, you can only trigger this event. And worst part is it isn't even a particularly necessary moment.

Thats what people usually refer when talking about 'cinematic'. Its a game that constantly and randomly decides to throw most of its mechanics and logic out of the window for the sake of some cool movie-like scripted moments.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Uncharted 4 was gash bored me to death.

On the other hand Uncharted 2 has yet to be bested.

I was the same, but it simply could’ve been I had more tolerance for the formula back when Uncharted 2 released.

With Uncharted 4, I wasn’t a fan of the opening, and didn’t like the feel of the gunplay.
Then I couldn’t help but notice the game was repeating shooting section, climbing section, and puzzle section over and over. It was predictable and just meh.

 

[SSfox]

Not enough "A" OP

Anyway will wait and see wait Sony has in store, sure Spiderman 2 is gonna be great but i'm not too Crazy about Superohero games either (+ DC >>>>> Marvel all day), i'm looking forward to what Sony studios will announce as always, hopefully some great stuffs. Meanwhile super excited about GOWR NG+ this literally make me more excited about Spiderman 2 tbh lol

 

[brian0057]

Imagine having standards that low.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Agree 100%. Asobo was able to make a great looking game that was also very compelling and fun to play. I actually really liked HZD a lot, but I've heard HFW is not so hot.

At least for me I found the other Sony games boring, they were all style with little to no substance with the exception of Horizon Zero Dawn. For me HZD had those same qualities as A plague Tale. I loved that game because the story really drew me in, unlike a lot of people I found Aloy a likeable character, and I thought exploring the world and killing robot dinos was a lot of fun.

HZD is another PS4 game I got the plat on and enjoyed playing. I loved the story too, even if Aloy was annoying and there are literally zero side characters or side content worth a shit.

Idk what happened with HFW. Maybe between HZD and FW I just got tired of the formula. Same thing happened for me with Gears and Gears 2. The problem for Horizon is that it didn’t do anything new with the formula, it’s literally a FarCry clone. Somehow in HFW, GG managed to create an opening tutorial type mission where you bring down a space shuttle on top of some snake robot and they found a way to make that boring. And there’s sooooooooo much walk n talk just in the opening, full of more forgettable NPCs talking about bullshit while seemingly all of them are bitter that Aloy won’t fuck them. Then they throw in a bunch of needless shit like a grapple hook for traversal and parkour.

zzzzzzzz

I will say though, even playing it on a base PS4, one of the best looking games I have ever seen. I can’t wait to see what they do with a PS5 exclusive.

 

[Three]

Its about control and predictability. A conversation in a RPG is something you're in full control of - and i don't mean that merely by having dialogue trees.
You decide when to start it, you know what effects it'll have and what to expect from this action. Its a mechanic. That TLoU scene i showed happens out of nowhere, the game randomly decides to snatch the character control from you, and it randomly decides Joel will take cover behind that car and that you'll have to go from there.

This seems like a bizarre thing to bring up. I'm a fan of Witcher 3 but there are cutscenes that trigger there too where you don't need to talk to anyone. That's not a mechanic. That's an unpredictable triggered cutscene. You just walk into a specific area and it triggers just like the TLOU one.

As for ending up behind the car during the cutscene. Isn't whatever happens in the cutscene always the case for any game? There is one in witcher 3 where he jumps on a horse and runs away all without me deciding to do any of those things. How is that different?

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

Fuck AAAAAA garbage. I only play AAAAAAA games.

According to MS they gonna make AAAA games (not mine words they said it) so i give you that.
The catagories indy- A-AA and AAA games are more than enough catagories....

 

[Dr. Claus]

That is the most accurate description of Spider-Man I have ever seen. I got the PS4 Pro Spider-Man bundle and did plat the game because I love open world games, but everything outside of the traversal was excruciatingly generic. The side content was so boring and the game makes you do it to progress. The combat was good but it is literally Arkham combat. I think the game got massive sales thanks to bundles and critics gave it too much love because of the awesome traversal and Spidey factor and these have lead to the game being very overrated.





That’s extremely impressive. Took me down a rabbit hole of watching other FS2020 content by that creator. I forget how technically impressive FS2020 is.

Yea, I was super hyped for Spiderman as well. I enjoyed some of it, but man was it boring. Still got the Platinum though.

This seems like a bizarre thing to bring up. I'm a fan of Witcher 3 but there are cutscenes that trigger there too where you don't need to talk to anyone. That's not a mechanic. That's an unpredictable triggered cutscene. You just walk into a specific area and it triggers just like the TLOU one.

As for ending up behind the car during the cutscene. Isn't whatever happens in the cutscene always the case for any game? There is one in witcher 3 where he jumps on a horse and runs away all without me deciding to do any of those things. How is that different?

There are, but those are few and far between. I could go 10-16 hours between scenes like that. Not so in the vast majority of Sony first party "cinematic" style games. There is also the quality of said story and for me, Witcher 3 was immediately and consistently engaging. TLOU? Not at all.

 

[The artful mincer]

Its about control and predictability. A conversation in a RPG is something you're in full control of - and i don't mean that merely by having dialogue trees.
You decide when to start it, you know what effects it'll have and what to expect from this action. Its a mechanic.

That TLoU scene i showed happens out of nowhere, the game randomly decides to snatch the character control from you, and it randomly decides Joel will take cover behind that car and that you'll have to go from there.
Its not a particular bad case but there are further jarring things about that specific sequence, like how you can't snipe the shooter from afar, or how once you get to where he is he'll always ambush you and trigger a quicktime event regardless of what you do.




You can't enter carefully, you can't throw a grenade in the room, you can only trigger this event. And worst part is it isn't even a particularly necessary moment.

Thats what people usually refer when talking about 'cinematic'. Its a game that constantly and randomly decides to throw most of its mechanics and logic out of the window for the sake of some cool movie-like scripted moments.

Okay I get your distinction with dialogue although I guess some games won't let you progress until triggering certain dialogue segments but fine

The sniper section stands out even in the last of us where you have a good amount of control in the regular combat. It's rightly criticised buts it's a one off.

The triggering of cutscenes seems exactly the same as every other game I've played since the 90s. No fundamentally different than Cloud driving his bike down the stairs in the Midgar HQ. I mean if you hate cutscenes fair enough but I don't think Sonys games are any better worse than most other games.

I would even say Sony's games are fairly well balanced in gameplay to story, cutscenes ratio.

They have certainly never reached Kojima levels of madness. (Although I personally enjoy Kojima insanity!)

 

[Guilty_AI]

This seems like a bizarre thing to bring up. I'm a fan of Witcher 3 but there are cutscenes that trigger there too where you don't need to talk to anyone. That's not a mechanic. That's an unpredictable triggered cutscene. You just walk into a specific area and it triggers just like the TLOU one.

The cutscenes the game usually triggers do not affect the other aspects of gameplay. Even if a scene plays out where Geralt finishing off a bunch of thugs after you fight them, it does not change the outcome or what will happen afterwards. Its much like a introductory boss cutscene in souls games. Besides...

As for ending up behind the car during the cutscene. Isn't whatever happens in the cutscene always the case for any game? There is one in witcher 3 where he jumps on a horse and runs away all without me deciding to do any of those things. How is that different?

...The Witcher 3 isn't exactly an exemplary case of mechanical consistency, however the difference between it and something like TLoU is the frequency where these kinds of moments happens, the degree in which they affect the game, and how predictable they are. There are moments in ND games, and especially Rockstar games, where the game quite literally pulls out new mechanics or changes the base mechanics and logic to fit a specific moment.

Okay I get your distinction with dialogue although I guess some games won't let you progress until triggering certain dialogue segments but fine

You have to take into consideration how mechanically natural those triggers are.

>Theres a door that you need a certain password to open it, and you can only get that password by talking to some NPC. That feels very natural and in accordance to the game's logic.
>There's a door when you try going through it, the character says "I should speak with Mr A before heading out". Thats not natural.

The triggering of cutscenes seems exactly the same as every other game I've played since the 90s. No fundamentally different than Cloud driving his bike down the stairs in the Midgar HQ. I mean if you hate cutscenes fair enough but I don't think Sonys games are any better worse than most other games.

I would even say Sony's games are fairly well balanced in gameplay to story, cutscenes ratio.

They have certainly never reached Kojima levels of madness. (Although I personally enjoy Kojima insanity!)

Sony's games or new games aren't the only offenders on this. I'm pretty sure you can find others, as well as old games with similar issues, to smaller or higher degrees.

However this isn't every game. Most Nintendo games tend to be very mechanically consistent for example, and its one the reasons people love them even if they don't understand this. Same with many old-school FPSs.
Its harder to do the same with traditional RPGs, but you can keep them to a minimal degree so that mandatory events don't feel like they're being shoved into the player, happening more naturally (as i explained above).

 

[remember_spinal]

Agree 100%. Asobo was able to make a great looking game that was also very compelling and fun to play. I actually really liked HZD a lot, but I've heard HFW is not so hot.

At least for me I found the other Sony games boring, they were all style with little to no substance with the exception of Horizon Zero Dawn. For me HZD had those same qualities as A plague Tale. I loved that game because the story really drew me in, unlike a lot of people I found Aloy a likeable character, and I thought exploring the world and killing robot dinos was a lot of fun.

Plague tale fun to play?

Its a watered down Last of Us and its not even half the game TLOU2 is, the prototypical sony “movie” game. without the sophistication in game mechanics or nuance in story telling

 

[Three]

.. .The Witcher 3 isn't exactly an exemplary case of mechanical consistency, however the difference between it and something like TLoU is the frequency where these kinds of moments happens, the degree in which they affect the game, and how predictable they are. There are moments in ND games, and especially Rockstar games, where the game quite literally pulls out new mechanics or changes the base mechanics and logic to fit a specific moment.

I would say it's an odd nitpick in both cases. I would even argue that this unpredictability is more apparent and frequent in The Witcher owing to the fact that in a linear game you expect seemless cutscenes to progress as you make your way through a level and obviously would not be expected to walk up to a character and press A to set off some cutscene and quest, so when you get those area triggered cutscenes it's even more jarring. I just don't see how complaining that Joel takes cover behind a car in the cutscene that seemlessly goes back to gameplay with you behind that car can be considered lack of player agency when Geralt triggers plenty of cutscenes like that too, where he abandons a fight and jumps on a horse and the next section is him on a horse running away.

That small cutscene sets up the gameplay scenario. The alternative would be not showing the sniper, joel not taking cover and the player walks and gets snipered not having a clue what the scenario is for that section. So calling the witcher cutscenses boss "introductions" and the TLOU cutscene anything else I think is missing the well thought out game design.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Plague tale fun to play?

Its a watered down Last of Us and its not even half the game TLOU2 is, the prototypical sony “movie” game. without the sophistication in game mechanics or nuance in story telling

Yes, we get it. Sony is King. Christ you warriors are so insufferable.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

There u go again with the insults and labels. I mean, objectively, Plague Tale is pretty basic (gameplay wise) compared to many games that feature prominent cinematics. Not a bad title and I enjoy those types of games, but it's funny how little scrutiny it gets for its lack of depth compared to other games that feature pretty compelling gameplay systems in addition to their well known cinematic production values.

 

[Dr. Claus]

There u go again with the insults and labels. I mean, objectively, Plague Tale is pretty basic (gameplay wise) compared to many games that feature prominent cinematics. Not a bad title and I enjoy those types of games, but it's funny how little scrutiny it gets for its lack of depth compared to other games that feature pretty compelling gameplay systems in addition to their well known cinematic production values.

 

[remember_spinal]

There u go again with the insults and labels. I mean, objectively, Plague Tale is pretty basic (gameplay wise) compared to many games that feature prominent cinematics. Not a bad title and I enjoy those types of games, but it's funny how little scrutiny it gets for its lack of depth compared to other games that feature pretty compelling gameplay systems in addition to their well known cinematic production values.

I remember everyone raging about god of war Ragnaroks squeeze through cracks yet, Plague Tale came out a month before it and had twice as many and it was never mentioned in reviews

 

[Guilty_AI]

I would say it's an odd nitpick in both cases. I would even argue that this unpredictability is more apparent and frequent in The Witcher owing to the fact that in a linear game you expect seemless cutscenes to progress as you make your way through a level

That is not true. People just became way too used to this kind of thing, but its perfectly possible to have a very linear game where you retain full control of you character pretty much all the time. Half Life is probably the best example of this.

And i don't mean predictable in the way "expect it to happen", i mean "expect it to happen at X moment/place". There is absolutely nothing in TLoU that warns you of when control will be taken from you, or have its basic mechanics and logic changed, even if you know they'll happen at some point.

and obviously would not be expected to walk up to a character and press A to set off some cutscene and quest, so when you get those area triggered cutscenes it's even more jarring. I just don't see how complaining that Joel takes cover behind a car in the cutscene that seemlessly goes back to gameplay with you behind that car can be considered lack of player agency when Geralt triggers plenty of cutscenes like that too, where he abandons a fight and jumps on a horse and the next section is him on a horse running away.

Because with Joel, the player might have wanted to go to the opposite side, or maybe taken cover in some other place. Used the mechanics of the game in the way he saw fit. But the game decided for him. It seems simple, but this is critical for a game with stealth and tactical play.

With Geralt, the vast majorities of cutscenes do not influence your mechanical choices, the game will never use Aard for you when you wanted to use Igni, will not make you go left when you wanted to go right. Even if you walk to a place and trigger a cutscene, that will not affect you mechanically, you'll just be back at the game the way you were before once the cutscene is over. They'll at most induce states like combat or change locations, though even in those cases you will know thats whats coming.

Sure you can probably find exceptions (i don't remember this specific horse moment you're refering to), as i said The Witcher 3 isn't an exemplary case of proper game design, its just less jarring than other games.

 

[Oof85]

Like sackboy, bound, concrete genie, entwined, Tearaway, etc.

Sony put out a bunch of “indie” games last generation that no one cared about but continue to demand they still make

If Sony is as successful as they are, surely they can spare pennies to create game experiences that solely work to differentiate their offerings to many kinds of people yes?

Nintendo published Bayonetta multiple times knowing that the return was gonna be meager.

Sony can't do the same?

 

[ProtoByte]

Its about control and predictability. A conversation in a RPG is something you're in full control of - and i don't mean that merely by having dialogue trees.
You decide when to start it, you know what effects it'll have and what to expect from this action. Its a mechanic.

No you are not. There a shitload of conversations in any RPG, Deus Ex very much included, that start randomly and irrespective of the players intentions. There has to be. Otherwise the game can't reliably progress.

That TLoU scene i showed happens out of nowhere, the game randomly decides to snatch the character control from you, and it randomly decides Joel will take cover behind that car and that you'll have to go from there.

It's not random though. He got shot at with a .50cal. Lol
You're complaining about a seamless transition between gameplay and cutscenes. Which sure is something alright. You want a black screen as a "warning"? It doesn't matter.

Its not a particular bad case but there are further jarring things about that specific sequence, like how you can't snipe the shooter from afar, or how once you get to where he is he'll always ambush you and trigger a quicktime event regardless of what you do.

You can probably try to shoot the sniper from afar (which he player in the video doesn't try to do so, and this is something that will comes up numerous times in your posts), but that wouldn't logically work out to well since they've got higher ground, first strike, better cover and a better scope.

You can't enter carefully, you can't throw a grenade in the room, you can only trigger this event. And worst part is it isn't even a particularly necessary moment.

I like how you cut out the minutes of gameplay where the player can and does do all of that up to the scripted point. And again, the player in the video doesn't try to throw a grenade or enter carefully into that room. He literally sprints in there.

Thats what people usually refer when talking about 'cinematic'. Its a game that constantly and randomly decides to throw most of its mechanics and logic out of the window for the sake of some cool movie-like scripted moments.

What a load of rubbish. You're essentially complaining that a game doesn't give you perpetual freedom to do whatever you like whenever you want to in order to keep up visual, narrative and/or character consistency.

The idea that TLOU or others are committing some type of new sin by having setpieces and scripted moments is absolutely ridiculous. Particularly when the games that don't have them, and are more focused on "freedom" almost always come with less motion fidelity and less robust gameplay mechanics. There's always been tradeoffs in game design and there always will be.

Most people seem to understand as long as there's no PlayStation logo on the box.

 

[knocksky]

Just popped in to post in another legendary GAF Remember Spinal love letter thread. Needs the right song to go with it though

 

[remember_spinal]

If Sony is as successful as they are, surely they can spare pennies to create game experiences that solely work to differentiate their offerings to many kinds of people yes?

Nintendo published Bayonetta multiple times knowing that the return was gonna be meager.

Sony can't do the same?

What difference does it make whether sony makes Kena or just funds/markets it?

Sony has been big on promoting and funding indie projects, why does Santa Monica studio or Naughty Dog need to make them? It’s like people that desperately want sony first party studios to make a JRPG. What difference does it make if sony makes it or SE makes it?

I’m guessing sony studios make what they want, and none of them want to make something like hohokum at the moment

 

[Unknown?]

Mother of god, a remake, a remake of a remaster, a Ubisoft game with better graphics and Ratchet

Thank god Sony's making these incredible games and not ones like the ones you said, Diablo, Zelda or Starfield

Oh wow a sequel that's barely changed, another sequel, and an Ubisoft game in space!

 

[ProtoByte]

Reminds me of when people tried to downplay the last of us by saying how simple the story was and that was it was only special because it was being weighed against other video game stories.

Here we are 9 years later and its the biggest show on tv, and not in a network tv way, in an emmy winning prestige drama way of the likes of game of thrones and succession. It expanded HBO’s subscription base

That Microsoft internal review doesn't say the game is perfect (they say gunplay isn't decent in any of ND's games, which I think most disagree with - and they also say some things that are outright false, like the idea that there's no quick swap between weapons), but it even talks up the virtues of the storytelling aspect.

But the fact that it's even up for debate that storytelling and characters are important to this medium is just dumb. Most of the IP we care about are close to twenty years old, and were built on the back of resonant characters and/or stories.

 

[remember_spinal]

It will be interesting to see how people deal with sony making big multiplayer games alongside their single player games.

But yes, AAAAAA ‘blockbuster’ multiplayer games is what the industry is missing.

 

[Oof85]

What difference does it make whether sony makes Kena or just funds/markets it?

Sony has been big on promoting and funding indie projects, why does Santa Monica studio or Naughty Dog need to make them? It’s like people that desperately want sony first party studios to make a JRPG. What difference does it make if sony makes it or SE makes it?

I’m guessing sony studios make what they want, and none of them want to make something like hohokum at the moment

Tbh, it doesn't make a difference to me.

I just tire of hearing people saying "Sony made/funded those games and nobody bought them!" while in the very next breath saying how Sony is more successful than they've ever been, etc.

Kena/Returnal? More of this please even if they're not breaking records in terms of units moved.

Sony isn't like Sega where they're relatively poor so they need to land way more than they can afford to miss.

 

[Guilty_AI]

No you are not. There a shitload of conversations in any RPG, Deus Ex very much included, that start randomly and irrespective of the players intentions. There has to be. Otherwise the game can't reliably progress.

And they play out the same as every other conversation. Only thing that can happen is a NPC starting that conversation instead of you, which is fair and mechanically consistent. Aside from that, specific places that load up other areas or finish a mission, like the chopper.

It's not random though. He got shot at with a .50cal. Lol

And i should decide what i do about it, same as when i get shot at by other guns during other moments of the game.

You're complaining about a seamless transition between gameplay and cutscenes. Which sure is something alright. You want a black screen as a "warning"? It doesn't matter.

No.

You can probably try to shoot the sniper from afar (which he player in the video doesn't try to do so, and this is something that will comes up numerous times in your posts), but that wouldn't logically work out to well since they've got higher ground, first strike, better cover and a better scope.

Its impossible, he's hardcoded invincible until you trigger the quicktime event where he grabs you.

I like how you cut out the minutes of gameplay where the player can and does do all of that up to the scripted point. And again, the player in the video doesn't try to throw a grenade or enter carefully into that room. He literally sprints in there.

Because i want to highlight what i'm refering to. And i know none of that works because i played the game and tried. It'll always play out like that regardless of what you try.

What a load of rubbish. You're essentially complaining that a game doesn't give you perpetual freedom to do whatever you like whenever you want to in order to keep up visual, narrative and/or character consistency.

No, i'm saying these games sacrifice mechanical consistency in the altar because they can't figure out how to keep up visual, narrative and/or character consistency without doing it. Or worse, because they wanted a cool cinematic moment.
Some might not mind this, but the people who complain about these 'cinematic games' are refering exactly to that.

The idea that TLOU or others are committing some type of new sin by having setpieces and scripted moments is absolutely ridiculous. Particularly when the games that don't have them, and are more focused on "freedom" almost always come with less motion fidelity and less robust gameplay mechanics. There's always been tradeoffs in game design and there always will be.

They made their choice with the way they designed the game. However, the truth is they do sacrifice mechanical consistency for the sake of being cinematic, and many people dislike that.

And TLoU with robust gameplay mechanics? Its a basic stealth game.

Most people seem to understand as long as there's no PlayStation logo on the box.

I've seem plenty complaining of these same things on games without playstation logos.

 

[Three]

That is not true. People just became way too used to this kind of thing, but its perfectly possible to have a very linear game where you retain full control of you character pretty much all the time. Half Life is probably the best example of this.

Of course it's possible just as it's possible to have a single take camera too like in GoW. Doesn’t mean every game should be expected to have it. We're not talking about changing the game design so that all games are the same. When I say "expected" I'm talking about predictability within a given game, not expected for every game.

You were talking about a game being unpredictable. Not what you can do if you change the game entirely to a mute who teleports to confined spaces where again some mechanics are disabled. Unpredictability in half life would be if in some level Gordon got a dialog choice and he spoke then became mute again. That would be unpredictable for that given game.

I'm only making the point that in Witcher 3's open world going up to somebody and pressing A to set off a cutscene/quest is the predictable mechanic/thing and in TLOU progressing through a linear level and triggering cutscene/section is the predictable mechanic/thing. So when Witcher breaks that it's even more unpredictable.

And i don't mean predictable in the way "expect it to happen", i mean "expect it to happen at X moment/place". There is absolutely nothing in TLoU that warns you of when control will be taken from you, or have its basic mechanics and logic changed, even if you know they'll happen at some point.

How would it warn you of a cutscene setting up the next section of the game? With a prompt saying "you are about to progress in the game do you want to continue?".

Because with Joel, the player might have wanted to go to the opposite side, or maybe taken cover in some other place. Used the mechanics of the game in the way he saw fit. But the game decided for him. It seems simple, but this is critical for a game with so much stealth.

And maybe I didnt want to get on my horse or maybe I did but Roach was disabled for some inexplicable reason, or maybe in half life I didn't want to listen to G-man on a floating island but I was just magically transported there.

Tell me what's the difference between a level loading and putting you in a specific starting spot or a cutscene triggering and putting you in a specific starting spot? That's the starting spot for that level/section. So I'm not sure what you mean by maybe you wanted to go left or right when he starts the section behind the car. You can go wherever you want from there.

With Geralt, the vast majorities of cutscenes do not influence your mechanical choices, the game will never use Aard for you when you wanted to use Igni, will not make you go left when you wanted to go right.

How so when I just gave you the example of using a cutscene to put the player on a horse at a specific starting spot determined by the game?

Even if you walk to a place and trigger a cutscene, that will not affect you mechanically, you'll just be back at the game the way you were before once the cutscene is over. They'll at most induce states like combat or change locations, though even in those cases you will know that is what you'll be doing.

What do you mean by affect you mechanically? Yes it would when you change locations it's choosing if you went left or right. When it puts you on a horse it's choosing what you did in that cutscene. What's the difference?

Witcher at some points even disables calling Roach and or disables fast travel too without explanation.

All this is just unnecessary nitpicking, it's just a good design for setting up the next section of gameplay.

 

[remember_spinal]

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Are we just pretending that Fable, Starfield, and Elder Scrolls VI aren't going to happen? Or are those not "AAAAAA" enough titles? Also, Halo Infinite was great, except that they didn't release promised single-player features, and they butchered multi-player. But the single-player campaign they made was on point.

He said polished games though. Taking into account whos developing those games and how they released games in the past, the only game I wouldn't immediatly discard os Fable.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I couldn't tell because their output this gen has been garbage.

 

[IFireflyl]

He said polished games though. Taking into account whos developing those games and how they released games in the past, the only game I wouldn't immediatly discard os Fable.

Forza Horizon 5? Halo Infinite? Missing split-screen co-op doesn't take away from the look and feel of the campaign.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Forza Horizon 5? Halo Infinite? Missing split-screen co-op doesn't take away from the look and feel of the campaign.

Halo Infinite is *not* polished. Forza Horizon 5 is.

 

[sachos]

Their games trully feel like an event when they release i don't think anyone can honestly dispute that. They mastered their art, can't wait to see what their devs can do now that PS4 is behind.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Of course it's possible just as it's possible to have a single take camera too like in GoW. Doesn’t mean every game should be expected to have it. We're not talking about changing the game design so that all games are the same. When I say "expected" I'm talking about predictability within a given game, not expected for every game.

You were talking about a game being unpredictable. Not what you can do if you change the game entirely to a mute who teleports to confined spaces where again some mechanics are disabled. Unpredictability in half life would be if in some level Gordon got a dialog choice and he spoke. That would be unpredictable for that given game.

I'm only making the point that in Witcher 3's open world going up to somebody and pressing A to set off a quest is the predictable mechanic/thing and in TLOU progressing through a linear level and triggering cutscenes is the predictable mechanic/thing. So when Witcher breaks that it's even more unpredictable.

In TLoU, the predictable things are moving, shooting, crouching, crafting, shooting enemies harm/kill them, etc. Its a problem when the cutscene triggering involves taking away agency of those in unnatural ways, like the character suddenly deciding he'll move himself and complete throw off any possible approach you could've come up with. Or NPCs that should've been killable in a given situation (a combat encounter), but are inexplicably invincible until the game decides its the correct time.

How would it warn you of a cutscene setting up the next section of the game? With a prompt saying "you are about to progress in the game do you want to continue?".

With hints and implications. Like a pilot screaming "Get in the chopper JC! Time to go to New York!", then you walk up to the chopper and press the action button.

And maybe I didnt want to get on my horse or maybe I did but Roach was disabled for some inexplicable reason, or maybe in half life I didn't want to listen to G-man on a floating island but I was just magically transported there.

And i said The Witcher 3 isn't a good example of game design, just less jarring. And also i still want to see that scene since i don't remember it.

And trying to literally use the ending scene of Half Life isn't gonna cut it, you just defeated the final boss and jumped into the teleporter, game is over, you're just seeing the epilogue, the closing curtain. And you knew the mechanic behind teleports, you know what they do, they... teleport you.

Tell me what's the difference between a level loading and putting you in a specific starting spot or a cutscene triggering and putting you in a specific starting spot? That's the starting spot for that level/section. So I'm not sure what you mean by maybe you wanted to go left or right when he starts the section behind the car. You can go wherever you want from there.

It depends on the exact circunstances, how its presented to the player, and the game mechanics.
>Walking into an enemy camp, seeing a vent to the side and crawling through it is completely natural - regardless of that being the only way in or not.
>Walking into an enemy camp, having the control snatched from your hand and being forced to watch the character crawling through the vent on the side, is not natural.

How so when I just gave you the example of using a cutscene to put the player on a horse at a specific starting spot determined by the game?

And as i explained, The Witcher 3 isn't an exemplary case, and i want to see that scene.

What do you mean by affect you mechanically? Yes it would when you change locations it's choosing if you went left or right. When it puts you on a horse it's choosing what you did in that cutscene. What's the difference?

It means the game making choices for you, even if there's only one choice to make. And situations where it changes locations during the game are either rare or forewarned. And again, i want to see that scene so i can judge the circumstances.

Witcher at some points even disables calling Roach and or disables fast travel too without explanation.

Its highly dependent on whether that makes sense or not, also if there's consistency to when those happen.
Elden Ring for example disables fast travel inside unbeaten dungeons and has specific locations where the horse is disabled. The game doesn't do that elegantly as it doesn't explain the whys, but it does warn exactly where you can't use your horse and you know under what circunstances fast travel is disabled, aka its predictable and consistent.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Forza Horizon 5? Halo Infinite? Missing split-screen co-op doesn't take away from the look and feel of the campaign.

Yeah sorry I skipped those was focusing on future titles.

Can't say much about Forza and Halo SP though. Haven't heard bad stuff about it so it was probably fine.

 

[{insert code here}]

Is it too much to ask for one of Sony's 1P to make an FPS with a Horizon budget. Something like KZ2/RFOM. I hope Bungie comes through.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Are we just pretending that Fable, Starfield, and Elder Scrolls VI aren't going to happen? Or are those not "AAAAAA" enough titles? Also, Halo Infinite was great, except that they didn't release promised single-player features, and they butchered multi-player. But the single-player campaign they made was on point. And what about Forza Horizon 5?

Yeah let's leave Halo Infinite off this list...

 

[3liteDragon]

I gave both Plague Tales a 9/10 & thought Requiem was slightly better because of the story, even though the overall story felt exactly the same as the first one. Didn’t like what they did with some of the characters, but my main gripe with the game is the pacing (only issue I had with TLOU2) in the third act, it drags on forever & just when you think it’s about to finish, another level opens up. Gameplay wise, they added the crossbow obviously & a few neat mechanics relating to certain characters but definitely wasn’t the big upgrade I was hoping for in that department. And the whole thing felt clunky af because of their 30FPS implementation & the input lag in the game. I thought it was just me until I started playing Hogwarts, which has a great 30FPS implementation in comparison. The enemy AI in the game was okay but again, feels barebones compared to the AI in TLOU2. Writing was kinda cringe at times especially with Amicia but it’s the same basic writing from the first game, the facial models & animations were the same as the first game & the game has terrible audio syncing issues.

It’s obvious they were trying to emulate TLOU but imma tell you rn, it doesn’t even come close to TLOU2 (my GOTG last gen) in any aspect at all, being on Game Pass doesn’t change that. ND’s in another league of their own. Now for the “I doN’t LIKe WAtCHiNG GamES” crowd, I hope you have the same energy for the Plague Tale games & other third-party games which use cinematics a lot as well. Cause if TLOU’s a movie game, then so are those games. I feel like people who use that term a lot don’t know wtf it even means at this point, if you wanna see movie games, go play Until Dawn or The Quarry. It’s easy to tell who actually played the game based on the comments, the gameplay in TLOU2 is some of the best I’ve played through & is so fucking satisfying, still hasn’t been topped for me yet. Maybe Factions will or whatever the next ND game after that is.

 

[Topher]

Summary of recent PS5 games for me

God of War: R: Great game. Hampered by a ridiculous UI. A bit larger in scope than the previous. Felt like it lost some focus. Overall not as god as the previous.
Horizon Forbidden West: Good, not great. I like the robot dinosaur fights a lot. Overly bloated open world. Characters are meh.
SM: Miles Morales: Great game. Love the venom powers. Story is just ok. Needed a better villain.
Astro's Playroom: Fantastic. Loved every minute of it
Ratchet and Clank: A Rift Apart: Great game. Standard R&C stuff and I like the addition of Rivet
Returnal: Between this and Hades I've determined that I do not like roguelikes. So this one wasn't for me.

Haven't played:

GT7: On my list
Demon Souls Remake: Along with roguelikes, I've figured out that I don't care for Souls games. I'm just not very good at difficult games. Sucks because the world is gorgeous and intriguing. I'll occasionally jump in a coop game with my son in Elden Ring and that is a lot of fun, but I'm afraid that is it for me and Souls games.

I'd say overall Sony has produced a very good library of games this generation.

 

[Graciaus]

Me too. Makes it easy to skip the console completely.

 

[Three]

In TLoU, the predictable things are moving, shooting, crouching, crafting, shooting enemies harm/kill them, etc. Its a problem when the cutscene triggering involves taking away agency of those in unnatural ways, like the character suddenly deciding he'll move himself and complete throw off any possible approach you could've come up with.

A cutscene isn't about an approach. It's just an introduction to a gameplay section where it sets you up so you can implement your approach from a given starting point. The fact that you lose control of the character in a cutscene is in most games. It's a way of telling a consistent story element in the game.

Or NPCs that should've been killable in a given situation (a combat encounter), but are inexplicably invincible until the game decides its the correct time.

This is just downright daft. You have invincible NPCs in almost all games, even Half Life. You can even kill some NPCs in creative ways the devs didn’t think possible that prevent complete gameplay progress without warning in half life. That's somehow better? The Witcher has essential NPCs. So yeah you might have invincible NPCs to set a scenario and allow the story to progress but that's just like any other game, they at least usually go out of their way to hide the fact they're invincible with clever scenarios and AI.

With hints and implications. Like a pilot screaming "Get in the chopper JC! Time to go to New York!", then you walk up to the chopper and press the action button.

So in the sniper sequence how would you load the next section and get you behind the car starting point of that level with a prompt? What happens during a cutscene is irrelevant. It's just setting up the next section where you can take whatever approach you like.

The lack of control during a short cutscene like that where he runs behind a car means nothing. It's just consistent story elements in a game and every game has it.
Same even with dialogue choices. Why when I can choose to say what I want when playing a game with dialogue choices, in cutscenes used for telling a specific story I can't choose everything I say? Where's that agency gone?

And i said The Witcher 3 isn't a good example of game design, just less jarring. And also i still want to see that scene since i don't remember it.

One example is the battle of Kaer Morhen but it happens a lot more than that.

And trying to literally use the ending scene of Half Life isn't gonna cut it, you just defeated the final boss and jumped into the teleporter, game is over, you're just seeing the epilogue, the closing curtain. And you knew the mechanic behind teleports, you know what they do, they... teleport you.

It was an easy way of confining the player and pretending they have agency, all weapons removed of course. Half life confines you more than just at the end it teleports you, it has you confined to monorails or platforms to progress in specific ways. Not every game has to be the same in design. GoW does cracks in walls for example. It's just a progression mechanic.

It depends on the exact circunstances, how its presented to the player, and the game mechanics.
>Walking into an enemy camp, seeing a vent to the side and crawling through it is completely natural - regardless of that being the only way in or not.
>Walking into an enemy camp, having the control snatched from your hand and being forced to watch the character crawling through the vent on the side, is not natural.

There was nothing unnatural running behind the car to telegraph the situation that there is a sniper so keep cover in this upcoming section. It adds a specific story element and sets up the gameplay section.

And as i explained, The Witcher 3 isn't an exemplary case, and i want to see that scene.


It means the game making choices for you, even if there's only one choice to make. And situations where it changes locations during the game are either rare or forewarned. And again, i want to see that scene so i can judge the circumstances.

Its highly dependent on whether that makes sense or not, also if there's consistency to when those happen.

It only makes sense to not break the game but it doesn't make sense in the game world, removing player agency and not maintaining that "consistent mechanic" so that the game progresses as expected is what inexplicably removing the ability to call your horse is about.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Yes, we get it. Sony is King. Christ you warriors are so insufferable.

Well the charts, critical acclaim and fan reception don't lie to titles like:
- Horizon Forbidden West
- God Of War Ragnarock
- Last Of Us 2

Like if the above games were mediocre to average and didn't chart well then maybe your comment holds water but they literally can't go wrong with these latest iterations of their most sought after IP.

So yes currently they are king and there's nothing wrong with stating that or holding other publishers to the same standards.

 

[The Tourmaline Gorilla]

Starfield does not look current gen, sorry. Hellblade 2 is what im waiting for on xbox to blow us away

Same!

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Starfield does not look current gen, sorry. Hellblade 2 is what im waiting for on xbox to blow us away

Project Mara and Hellblade 2 have me all moist for Xbox. Maybe a new game from The Coalition but we havne't seen or heard from them yet but they are Unreal Engine wizards so expecting big things from them too.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

The only AAAA game was Callisto Protocol.....oh wait nevermind

 

[Represent.]

Me too. No one else can do it. They try and fail fucking miserably.

Plagues Tale, Calisto Protocol, failures.

RE4 remake? Looks stiff and outdated next to TLOU 2.

R*? They take a 10 years to make a game.

No one else comes close.

 

[cartman414]

no dude. stop.

Oh noes. Someone criticized the MCU!

 

[kyliethicc]

Me too. No one else can do it. They try and fail fucking miserably.

Plagues Tale, Calisto Protocol, failures.

RE4 remake? Looks stiff and outdated next to TLOU 2.

R*? They take a 10 years to make a game.

No one else comes close.

indeed. almost been 6 years and nobody has even matched knack 2

 

[phil_t98]

Sony do make great games for sure but let's not forget other company's make great games too. let's not pretend Sony are the only ones to maker great games. I loved God of war Ragnarok but I am loving Hogwarts legacy more, I rate them both 10 out of 10

 

[TheGodfather07]

Sonys rise as a first party is insane aswell. They went from selling 5m-10m to 20m-30m. Insane growth. Have to give credit for that.