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[strange headache]

From Metaverse to multiverse, it all sucks. I really dislike how Marvel and DC have decided to open up their cinematic worlds to other dimensions, timelines and parallel universes. Just like badly implemented time-travel, the multiverse is poison for narrative cohesion, it destroys any sense of permanence and ruins the stakes:

• Somebody has died? Doesn't matter just introduce a similar character from an alternate timeline!
• A tragic event happens? Nobody cares since it happened on Earth 19999 or some sh*t!
• The good guys lost? Don't worry, it was the b-team from a parallel world!
• The world-saving McGuffin got destroyed? We'll just get a copy from another dimension!

How are audiences supposed to become invested, if there are no lasting consequences anymore? The multiverse is a cheap copout as corporations don't want to lose the opportunity to cash in on their characters, but they still want to uphold dramatic tension in their movies to keep audiences engaged. You can't have your cake and eat it too! Also, how many different versions of the same character do we really need? Why should we care about any of these throwaway characters? The multiverse as a narrative deus ex machina cheapens every death, battle, defeat and victory in every story before or since.

Things are getting especially ridiculous now as DC is wiping out its original timeline and Marvel is opening up the multiverse. Are they seriously expecting regular audiences to keep track of all this crap? I know the multiverse is a long standing tradition in comics, but I don't think it translates well into a cinematic experience. I enjoyed Crisis on Infinite Earths back in the day, not for the cross-overs but because I was glad that DC finally cleaned house and got rid of its multiverse in order to create a single unified narrative. Unfortunately, current movie trends seem to be going into the exact opposite direction.

It really makes me not care about anything in these movies anymore. When is the Meta-Multiverse coming?

 

[BennyBlanco]

these movies were never good

 

[MrMephistoX]

I tend to agree. It’s impossible Disney won’t pull out their checkbooks at some point to get RDJ and Chris Evans back to reprise Iron Man and Cap when the MCU starts to run out of box office $ steam and the multiverse gives them a perfect way to explain it away. Oh that’s not the MCU Tony Stark that’s the What If Universe Tony Stark where the Snap Never happened because in that timeline Kang the Conqueror strangled purple baby Thanos in his crib.

 

[ManaByte]

Are they seriously expecting regular audiences to keep track of all this crap?

It's not like they did two whole TV series to explain it.

 

[strange headache]

I tend to agree. It’s impossible Disney won’t pull out their checkbooks at some point to get RDJ and Chris Evans back to reprise Iron Man and Cap when the MCU starts to run out of box office $ steam and the multiverse gives them a perfect way to explain it away. Oh that’s not the MCU Tony Stark that’s the What If Universe Tony Stark where the Snap Never happened because in that timeline Kang the Conqueror strangled purple baby Thanos in his crib.

B-bu-but it was not the "real" Kang, just a copy from another dimension or whatever. This convoluted mess makes no sense, it means whatever the story requires it to mean or what their marketing department needs to happen.
These shows and movies don't respect their audiences anymore, by this point it's just colorful noise.

 

[daveonezero]

Meh who cares.

Rick and Morty did it and it works there.

 

[MrMephistoX]

B-bu-but it was not the "real" Kang, just a copy from another dimension or whatever. This convoluted mess makes no sense, it means whatever the story requires it to mean or what their marketing department needs to happen.
These shows and movies don't respect their audiences anymore, by this point it's just colorful noise.

Don’t get me wrong I will happily watch it because I generally like most of the MCU but it’s just an elaborate cop out and I’m sure if pressed DC and Marvel writers would admit that it’s just a narrative device they invented so they wouldn’t have to commit to hard choices. Even without the multiverse though in DC and Marvel beloved characters never stay dead…although ironically and sadly only Black Panther will stay dead unless they use the same stupid logic of oh it’s T’Challa but he just doesn’t look like Chadwick Boseman because he’s from another universe and Chadwick Boseman T’Challa isn’t actually dead he just drank too much of the black Panther juice and only exists on the spirit plain so we can use deepfake Chadwick if we really want a cameo.


That said Lazarus Pit resurrecting dead bat family members is way worse than the multiverse.

 

[Batiman]

It’s comic books to life. Always has been. Don’t take it too serious. It’s not trying to be anything else and never was.

 

[Tschumi]

I'm right there with you, sumo brother, yet another symptom of the cynicism embodied by these films...

 

[Raven117]

these movies were never good

Thank you. It's like Ive been taking crazy pills.

Moreover, its fiction...they get to do what they want. There are no rules. You will slop it up off the floor like the animal you are because it has your favorite superhero in it. chump.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I think most people just watch to see neat stuff happen, that's all that really matters.

And most people want dead characters to return as well.

"stakes aren't high enough" is a bit of a comic fan cliche

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I wouldn't doubt Star Wars will return to that World Between Worlds in one of the live action shows and they'll pull the same thing there.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

I don't think anyone actually thinks these movies are good, so it is what it is.

the people who regularly watch this garbage are the same people who were more than happy to keep giving Michael Bay money so they can watch Transformers 9. it's just crap for the masses to consume.

 

[DeafTourette]

Dude…. It’s based on the comics. The comic multiverse is a thing and has been for decades! It isn’t new. Both marvel and dc have them. Plus it’s an actual theory in quantum physics. Makes sense to me. And there’s been other multiverse storylines in scifi: The One, Another Earth, Star Trek and I can go on.

Did you complain then?

 

[ZehDon]

I tend to agree, OP. These types of devices are “end of life” mechanics. They can be good when used as central devices to finish a story entirely by upping the stakes to existence-level events. However, the more common use is to introduce them as side narrative mechanics to enable narrative abuses that otherwise couldn’t be justified.

When the time travel stuff was introduced in End Game, that’s when I knew the MCU was going in a direction I didn’t like. That’s a one off mechanic that should have ended the entire MCU, because of the damage is does to the continuing story. You can play it as a last card, but you can’t play it as a middle card. Thanos was undone, which means they can just undo whatever happens again, and they’ll have to continue to create ever more convoluted reasons as to why “X” could be undone, but “Y” couldn’t.Multiverse, timelines, different realities; it’s more meaningless than ever with this junk in play.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I’m ok with it but I could easily see the narratives will get beyond what the general public will have the stomach for

 

[Neolombax]

For me its never about consequences of actions or resolutions from these movie series. I kinda have already accepted the fact that these superhero movies can just do whatever they want and there's no real rules to them. The only real rule is to make things as exciting as they can be. However, I dont disagree with what you, it can easily spin out of control to the point that it doesn't make sense anymore.

I like the concept of the multiverse, its exciting always for me to see comic content being portrayed more and more into the big screen. But I can see how it can be jarring for regular audiences that don't appreciate the comics as much as I do.

 

[pramod]

I tend to agree, OP. These types of devices are “end of life” mechanics. They can be good when used as central devices to finish a story entirely by upping the stakes to existence-level events. However, the more common use is to introduce them as side narrative mechanics to enable narrative abuses that otherwise couldn’t be justified.

When the time travel stuff was introduced in End Game, that’s when I knew the MCU was going in a direction I didn’t like. That’s a one off mechanic that should have ended the entire MCU, because of the damage is does to the continuing story. You can play it as a last card, but you can’t play it as a middle card. Thanos was undone, which means they can just undo whatever happens again, and they’ll have to continue to create ever more convoluted reasons as to why “X” could be undone, but “Y” couldn’t.Multiverse, timelines, different realities; it’s more meaningless than ever with this junk in play.

In some ways I agree, but in other ways it's kinda neat that the movies are becoming just as crazy and insane as the actual comics storylines.

When I was a kid I always dreamt of what a Secret Wars movie would be like. Looks like it's actually happening.

 

[Ionian]

Comics reboot all the time so don't really see the issue.

Then again when I read comics I didn't buy every issue of every run of every character from every publisher. Used to have to go into shops and spend a fortune, no such thing as digitized versions back then.

You find the ones you enjoy and read those. The films are no different, the exception being something major like Infinity War, that was incredible in the cinema. Avengers was cool as well but after the terrible shite that was 'Age of Ultron' I decided I'd only pony up if I was really interested. GOTG2 was well worth it after regretting not seeing the first on the big screen.

Most i'll just stream and even then, just the characters I care about. That way I can just turn them off without caring it it's boring. Same with the online shows on D+, I'll read reactions and go from there.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

It's not the multiverse that's the issue. I for one love the idea of other dimensions. Multiverse doesn't always mean Parallel Universes/Earths.

Planescape is a good example where you have all sorts of different realms, whether they're elemental or afterlives or whatever.

OP is taking more about the Parallel Universes and Many Worlds theory which isn't new (old Star Trek, Sliders, etc) but getting used more in movies and TV I guess.

It makes sense with Marvel as they've always had a multiverse from the beginning.

I'm all for it if the writing is good but I can see the OPs point that it makes things seemingly more inconsequential. Or important. Tony Stark's death means less if there's just another slightly different Tony that can arrive from a parallel universe, for example.

Fwiw, the big name superhero comics at the end are silly and inconsistent. They're entertaining but probably the worst form of literary fiction with constant retcons, contradictions, generally no rules they play by, zero logic, etc. It's one reason I can't even get immersed into Marvel or comic universes at my age anymore, even if I do still love some like Doctor Strange.

 

[sol_bad]

I think you should see how things play out before getting upset. These movies don't need the multiverse to bring characters back from the dead, they can bring characters back whenever they want without the multiverse. Bucky "died" in Captain America 1 and was alive again in Captain America 2, Fury "died" in Winter Soldier and was alive again by the end of the film, Loki "died" in the Dark World and was alive again by the end of the film, Janet "died" while disabling a Soviet rocket but was alive by the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp, Vision "died" in Infinity War but was alive again by Wandavision.

Granted, they are keeping Loki alive (again) and also Gamora alive via the multiverse but if Loki is kept separated from MCU 616 he is essentially a different character. As for Gamora, we have no idea how that will play out and she could end up being a villain for all we know, totally different character.

As for Endgame, I much prefer the alternate reality/time travel adventure that we got than a predictable battle against Thanos to regain the gauntlet and stones. The beginning of Endgame is one of the most unexpected things they could have done.

 

[Airola]

Plus it’s an actual theory in quantum physics. Makes sense to me.

Nah, honestly if anything, these movies show how stupid the "actual theory" about it is too.

 

[strange headache]

Thanks a lot for the interesting replies.

Meh who cares.

Rick and Morty did it and it works there.

Exactly, nobody really cares anymore.
Rick and Morty is a comedic satire and a very different beast than the movies I'm talking about. What works for one doesn't really work for the other, so you're comparing apples to oranges.

It’s not trying to be anything else and never was.

But I thought that's what they were trying to do by making these movies more palatable to general audiences. The reason why Avengers worked so well is because it was the culmination of a meaningful narrative buildup that conveyed a real sense of urgency. General audiences were invested in Endgame because they were lured into thinking that it meant something. The multiverse is kind of ruining the cinematic illusion.

You will slop it up off the floor like the animal you are because it has your favorite superhero in it. chump.

That's what it boils down to nowadays. Superhero movies have become so formulaic and meaningless that the only thing worth talking about is which character is going to make his appearance next. At least this seems to be that majority of the discussion whenever they release a new movie trailer. It's sad really.

I tend to agree, OP. These types of devices are “end of life” mechanics. They can be good when used as central devices to finish a story entirely by upping the stakes to existence-level events. However, the more common use is to introduce them as side narrative mechanics to enable narrative abuses that otherwise couldn’t be justified.

You formulated it way better than I did.

For me its never about consequences of actions or resolutions from these movie series. I kinda have already accepted the fact that these superhero movies can just do whatever they want and there's no real rules to them. The only real rule is to make things as exciting as they can be. However, I dont disagree with what you, it can easily spin out of control to the point that it doesn't make sense anymore.

For me, movies and stories in general are just not exciting when there are no lasting consequences and no narrative rules. I think we've already reached the point where things don't make much sense anymore with the multiverse.

It's not the multiverse that's the issue. OP is taking more about the Parallel Universes and Many Worlds theory which isn't new (old Star Trek, Sliders, etc) but getting used more in movies and TV I guess.
I'm all for it if the writing is good but I can see the OPs point that it makes things seemingly more inconsequential. Or important. Tony Stark's death means less if there's just another slightly different Tony that can arrive from a parallel universe, for example.

Exactly, it's not the multiverse in itself that's the issue here but its detrimental effects on narrative cohesion and how it will affect future engagement with these movies.

 

[JCK75]

I personally think the Multiverse is stupid as well, it's like.. OK there are infinite other universes out there.. that we can agree on..
but those universe being a mirror of our own down to the same people living the same types of lives? yea not buying it.

 

[Sub_Level]

Its just a story arc. Its not like marvel is gonna stay focused on this forever.

 

[jezhumphrey75]

Since endgame I've really struggled staying interested and i loved all of it up to then....i haven't even got wrong Wanda vision yet

 

[ZywyPL]

It's not the whole "multiverse" that's the issue, it's milking the franchise to death while running out of ideas that's the main problem. I think they were too sloppy with introducing new franchises/characters into the MCU, the whole saga took 10, and then all of a sudden they ended it all up with Endgame. But hey, if there's an audience, why not?

 

[EverydayBeast]

You could see "multiverse" being a different perspective, Loki ended up being a win for Disney +, just watched Hawkeye, adding "multiverses" adds to the degree of difficulty of watching for casual fans. It's putting "thinking" into something that's about being super and popcorn.

 

[Billbofet]

I agree. It takes away any and all stakes. The movies are also hindered by the fact that they announce their slate of movies 7 years in advance, so you know certain characters will be fine no matter what.

That said, as much as I dislike time travel and multiverses, Marvel has done a really great job so far. I would also take this over whatever the hell gameplan they think they got going for Star Wars.

 

[Fbh]

Yeah I agree, I put it on the same level as lazy time travel. Though if nothing else I'm glad they are being upfront about bringing the whole multiverse thing into the MCU, at least now I know what to expect instead of being disappointed when they pull a lazy time travel deus ex machina to finish their big main storyline as they did with endgame.

I have to admit though, from a marketing perspective it's genius. It allows them to double down on the nostalgia and fan service, both of which sell a ton of tickets.

 

[gioGAF]

I suppose I agree. I haven't seen the latest Spiderman, so I can't comment about that. However this whole multiverse concept destroyed Avengers: End Game for me.

It conveniently erases all consequence from all actions prior to that film. It diminishes anything that happened in past movies. One of the most jarring aspects is that introducing a version of an established character from a different universe is like pulling a random stranger into an important role. The "other" Thanos has no direct experience or conflict with these Avengers, he doesn't even know who they are. The "other" Gamora has no shared history with Peter Quill, she doesn't even know who he is etc.

In short, it is a lazy way to redo or undo anything they want, which ends up trivializing anything they do or will do.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

It worked as a macguffin for the finale of a ten year old saga. After that it was just endless trash. It's getting old fast. They should do what comic books do - start over with a new set of actors, ideas/world and creators.

 

[Pejo]

Just like in the comic world before the cinematic stuff, it's where you go when you write yourself into a hole. They already did time travel which is the usual route, so nowhere to go other than multiverses.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

I'm not really understanding how people are trying to defend this on the basis that it is in the comics. Since it's in the comics, it's for some reason beyond critique? Why? It could be stupid in the comics and also stupid in the movies.

To argue that "well it's in the comics so what did you expect?" is even more ridiculous. You expect the average person to read the comics before watching the films? Really?

 

[Decontamination Silo]

I think it's clear to all that the world would be a better place if Marvel, DC and comics in general next existed.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

The OP makes some very good points.

Also...

I'm not really understanding how people are trying to defend this on the basis that it is in the comics.

... the second I saw the title of the thread, I knew the usual suspects would show up to defend the multiverse (and Marvel in general; really no one cares about DC movie universe here ).

So far I haven't seen a good rebuttal to the points the OP made.

 

[thefool]

Its all gabagool.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Didn't the Marvel side eventually kill off most/all of the other verses?

Something with the Illuminati.

 

[Brian Fellows]

Didn't the Marvel side eventually kill off most/all of the other verses?

Something with the Illuminati.

I think that is what Secret Wars was supposed to do but I mean the line relaunch that immediately followed it featured Spider-Gwen still in an alternate universe.

 

[sol_bad]

It worked as a macguffin for the finale of a ten year old saga. After that it was just endless trash. It's getting old fast. They should do what comic books do - start over with a new set of actors, ideas/world and creators.

New actors just to rehash a new Iron Man, Thor and Captain America? What would be the point of a reboot? Continuing the saga makes them have to come up with new and original ideas along with new characters.

Why would you want another 10 years of the same rebooted franchise?

 

[MomsNewBoyfriend]

It's the inevitable power creep of stakes. First goes regional, then world ending, then magic/cosmic, then multidimensional. MCU needed a gimmick to tie all its properties together, and they couldn't just pull the avengers card again. The metaverse where everything is now also painfully self aware is the cherry on the shit sundae

 

[March Climber]

I think it's a great option for when actors want to leave a franchise, or when an actor suddenly passes away, or when a company who previously owned one of marvel's properties(like Fox with X-men) ends up being brought back into the fold. Plus if Marvel has shown anything lately, it's a massive use of restraint. What If, Loki, and Spiderman NWH could have been way, way more crazy, but they held back a lot and barely scratched the surface which I assume was done on purpose to not confuse audiences any further.

 

[sol_bad]

It's the inevitable power creep of stakes. First goes regional, then world ending, then magic/cosmic, then multidimensional. MCU needed a gimmick to tie all its properties together, and they couldn't just pull the avengers card again. The metaverse where everything is now also painfully self aware is the cherry on the shit sundae

For all we know we'll only see the multiverse in Doctor Strange, then maybe in Quantumania and then we may not see it for years. No one knows how things will play out yet.

 

[dorkimoe]

I agree, and star wars is starting to annoy me with all the timelines too

 

[Amiga]

There is a universe out there where you love the multiverse.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

New actors just to rehash a new Iron Man, Thor and Captain America? What would be the point of a reboot? Continuing the saga makes them have to come up with new and original ideas along with new characters.

Why would you want another 10 years of the same rebooted franchise?

There is a reason why these. Characters are recycled in the comics. They are the most appealing, like Spider-Man , Batman etc. I can live without the eternals etc. they are all new but shit und uninteresting.

 

[sol_bad]

There is a reason why these. Characters are recycled in the comics. They are the most appealing, like Spider-Man , Batman etc. I can live without the eternals etc. they are all new but shit und uninteresting.

I've actually heard the new Eternals series is really good but many of the older runs are bad. I haven't read any of Eternals yet. Eternals isn't new BTW, been around since the 70's.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I've actually heard the new Eternals series is really good but many of the older runs are bad. I haven't read any of Eternals yet. Eternals isn't new BTW, been around since the 70's.

New to the MCU of course.

 

[Trunx81]

I always find it funny when my wife watches a Marvel movie with me and points out unrealistic things and I just tell her “Honey, you didn’t have any concerns with the giant green guy who’s mass just expands out of nowhere and now you are complaining that physics don’t add up?”

But I absolutely see your point: Many things have been established for quite some time now and newer stuff just feels like “plot device”.

 

[Jsisto]

I don’t need to see anymore superhero related content for like…twenty years, at least. I’m so over it.