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[rofif]

You are so cute when triggered.

And you are so cute when you compare 30fps to 20fps. "haha so cleaver look at me lololol I showed him!!!! 20fps peasant !!!"
cmon man

 

[nkarafo]

And you are so cute when you compare 30fps to 20fps. "haha so cleaver look at me lololol I showed him!!!! 20fps peasant !!!"
cmon man

Fair enough.

I just don's see why 30 has to be the number? I mean, 60fps is a logical standard because that's the refresh rate of TVs and most monitors. So they would make full use of it.

The more you lower that, the better graphics you can have, isn't that the logic? So why stop at 30fps? That's my question. There are plenty of 20fps games, OOT was 20fps and it's one of the best games of all time. So i'm asking, if you care so much about "fidelity above all" why not 20fps?

 

[darrylgorn]

Fair enough.

I just don's see why 30 has to be the number? I mean, 60fps is a logical standard because that's the refresh rate of TVs and most monitors. So they would make full use of it.

The more you lower that, the better graphics you can have, isn't that the logic? So why stop at 30fps? That's my question. There are plenty of 20fps games, OOT was 20fps and it's one of the best games of all time. So i'm asking, if you care so much about "fidelity above all" why not 20fps?

Because of vomitation.

 

[rofif]

Fair enough.

I just don's see why 30 has to be the number? I mean, 60fps is a logical standard because that's the refresh rate of TVs and most monitors. So they would make full use of it.

The more you lower that, the better graphics you can have, isn't that the logic? So why stop at 30fps? That's my question. There are plenty of 20fps games, OOT was 20fps and it's one of the best games of all time. So i'm asking, if you care so much about "fidelity above all" why not 20fps?

30fps is a number because tvs were 60hz for some time and it divides well to avoid framepacing stutter.
20fps is too low of a sldieshow. 30 is acceptable.
In the same way, 40 is MUCH better than 30. By the same amount 20 is worse than 30.

Now it doesn't have to be 30. It can be 40 or anything above with lfc support on vrr tv. But not enough people have vrr tvs or dont know what iti s

 

[The Cockatrice]

Make the votes public so I can see the dumbasses who said no.

 

[rofif]

Make the votes public so I can see the dumbasses who said no.

 

[nkarafo]

30fps is a number because tvs were 60hz for some time and it divides well to avoid framepacing stutter.
20fps is too low of a sldieshow. 30 is acceptable.
In the same way, 40 is MUCH better than 30. By the same amount 20 is worse than 30.

Now it doesn't have to be 30. It can be 40 or anything above with lfc support on vrr tv. But not enough people have vrr tvs or dont know what iti s

40 doesn't even divide to a 60hz screen. You need 120hz or 240hz for that. Unless you have freesync/gsync like you said, which isn't the standard yet.

20 divides perfectly. So it would give you correct frame pacing.

You also say "40 is MUCH better than 30". But isn't 60 even better?

20fps is too low of a sldieshow. 30 is acceptable.

Barely. It was acceptable when 3D was new and they had to slow down because the tech couldn't handle it at the time. But that's 25+ years ago. 3D games can look good and run at 60fps since the Dreamcast.

 

[rofif]

40 doesn't even divide to a 60hz screen. You need 120hz or 240hz for that. Unless you have greesync/gsync.

20 divides perfectly. So it would give you correct frame pacing.

You also say "40 is MUCH better than 30". But isn't 60 even better?

40 is for 120hz screens. I though I don't need to mention that...
of course 60 is better. I never said it isn't. But on console 30 to 40 is less IQ sacrifice than 30 to 60.
40 is the new 30 for me basically.

 

[balls of snow]

30 fps for life. If street fighter had a 30 fps I would choose it in a heartbeat.

 

[Kdad]

I'm still waiting for games that have destructible environments, persistence, interactivity, fully immersive worlds that are filled with interactive and enterable places, NPCs that are not dumb as fuck, vast vistas that still look alive with fauna and insects and randos, not GOTY AAA games that are still souless as fuck with set piece animation and interactiviy....we have very little of this. I'd appreciate devs prioritizing this over wasting time locking fps to an arbitrary number.

 

[nkarafo]

40 is for 120hz screens. I though I don't need to mention that...
of course 60 is better. I never said it isn't. But on console 30 to 40 is less IQ sacrifice than 30 to 60.
40 is the new 30 for me basically.

Yeah i also never do 30. If my PC can't handle a game at 60, i either let Gsync kick in or optimize it for 40fps. 30 is just a stutterfest to me, the extra 10fps somewhat fill the gaps. Somewhat.

The word "sacrifice" is key here though. I see it often in these threads but it only refers to graphics. But frame rate is also reduced the more fidelity you get though. That also counts as sacrifice.

 

[kikkis]

Isn't spiderman 2 30 fps and barely looks better than last gen game? I would say just go 60 fps since your game is unlikely to look much worse.

 

[A Most Virtuous Cat]

Amen. And also more physics.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Next gen games should focus on systems and interactivity. New Zelda is locked to 30FPS on a decade old piece of shit hardware but is more next-gen than 99.9% of games that are released.

 

[Pharaoh 117]

I said it before, if you target 60fps on you game you will limit what you can do with graphics, physics and game design. And these will always be the same, they will not change unless you remake the game. Framerate (and resolution) can always increase in the future with better hardware. So I will always choose 30fps so devs can do more with the target hardware they have now.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Isn't spiderman 2 30 fps and barely looks better than last gen game? I would say just go 60 fps since your game is unlikely to look much worse.

No, they will have a 60 fps mode. The trailer they showed was 30 fps tho.

 

[hinch7]

The move to 60fps on consoles does feel like they have set a limitation to how much they can push fidelity. Even looking at ND's latest release, TLOU Pt 1. While impressive, isn't a huge jump from Pt 2. Granted that was a remake.

I do want a dev like ND to push the highest fidelity this generation. Just to see what these consoles can actually do in terms of visuals.

 

[kikkis]

No, they will have a 60 fps mode. The trailer they showed was 30 fps tho.

So it's more like 60fps game at the end of the day., but it's not super optimized for either.

 

[Esppiral]

No, if you want 60fps buy a pc

 

[DenchDeckard]

I agree. Target on 60fps...reset gam9ng this gen and we can see improvements from the pro machines onward.

30 fps is a spite on the industry and ruins these modern games on high quality displays like oleds.

 

[Banjo64]

You come to realise that some things in life will simply never change and the only option you have is to change your habits if you aren’t happy.

One of those things is that games on console will always push graphics and resolution over framerate. This is what 90% of the market are impressed by.

If you aren’t happy with that, your only option is to go PC.

 

[Hoddi]

I'm mostly in the 60fps camp. But I don't care about 30 vs 60 nearly as much as how much performance is being wasted on chasing 4k.

I'd rather want games to target 1080p with better visuals.

 

[Bonfires Down]

No. Slow paced games are still playable at 30 fps and can benefit more from high end graphics and gameplay than framerate.

If you consider framerate the only important thing, its YOUR problem.

And leave the rest of us who can still enjoy 30 fps in fucking peace.

The irony.

 

[darrylgorn]

Next gen games should focus on systems and interactivity. New Zelda is locked to 30FPS on a decade old piece of shit hardware but is more next-gen than 99.9% of games that are released.

It's more interactive than the recent crop of games.

 

[Musilla]

With few exceptions such as speed games or arcades I PREFER the feeling of playing at 30fps instead of 60, if I add to that, that the inclusion of these performance modes is ruining the ability to squeeze the games graphically, I have come to the conclusion that I hate the 60fps

 

[Edellus]

I remember having a lot of fun playing Driveclub at 30fps on my original PS4. And a big part of that fun was the awe I had of the graphics, specially while it was raining with lightnings. I also had a lot of fun with God Of War, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, Uncharted 4, TLoU 2, etc. I had a lot of fun with all of those games at 30fps, because they had so much to offer to me that 30fps was a complete non issue.

I do like 60fps better, though. As long as the game doesn't take a huge hit in other things that enhance the experience to me. Such as image quality (1440p minimum for me. 1080p looks way too blurry upscaled in a 55 inches 4k TV), good LoD implementation (often and obvious popups can be distracting), consistent lightning, shadows not shimmering too much, etc.

If too many of those things get compromised by 60fps, then I prefer 30fps with no problem. Depending on the game, and how it is made, it is negotiable. For instance, I don't think I'd be okay with a DMC or Street Fighter type game, where input speed is crucial, at 30fps. But not all games are like that, so there's a lot of room for 30fps if it means their presentation and immersion improvements will awe me.

 

[MrKainobi]

My hope is that the majority of games have a 60fps (performance mode) option until 120hz TVs are what most people have and 40fps (vrr) can be the new standard.

 

[Warnen]

45ish is good if you got vrr.

 

[Vick]

I remember having a lot of fun playing Driveclub at 30fps on my original PS4. And a big part of that fun was the awe I had of the graphics, specially while it was raining with lightnings. I also had a lot of fun with God Of War, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, Uncharted 4, TLoU 2, etc. I had a lot of fun with all of those games at 30fps, because they had so much to offer to me that 30fps was a complete non issue.

All those games you mentioned had input latency miles ahead of 99% of 30fps games, though, with some of them literally programmed to feature the response time of 60fps games while rendering half the frames.
And all of those receiving a 60fps update were enormously transformed for the better by it visually while playing even better at the same time.
To me Driveclub is kind of the exception because of a combination of extreme responsiveness and constant impeccable motion blur. It's the only game I can boot right after tons of 60fps games and not feel sick looking at it.

Imo, if every developer was able to pull of The Order: 1886, RDR2, TLOUII or Forbidden West visuals, all doable at 60fps on these machines, complaining about "lacking graphics" for just the few years necessary to get the next Generation would be seen as laughable only.

 

[deriks]

Since the Dreamcast days, 60fps is primordial to me

I remember playing PSX games and was "slow" and ugly, N64 was choppy... Dreamcast came and was like butter on a well cooked steak

 

[Bojji]

... Or they should just do what they think is best for their own game and ignore arbitrary rules made by internet randos who know nothing of game development.

They are sacrifcing gameplay when going 30fps. Most 30fps games have super high input lag that makes playing them very painful, shooting at targets is super annoying.

 

[FunkMiller]

Current games already look like last gen. Might as well run smoother.



Ok. Now play Elden Ring at 60fps on a PC and see if you can come back to 30fps after that.

Also, you do realize higher frame rate affects gameplay by reducing input lag and making the whole game feel more responsive. Right?

I always used to play all multiplatform games at 60fps on PC (until it got 9 years old and now i need a new build). Dark Souls (with the fix), Dark Souls 3, Sekiro, The surge, etc. Then i see those games on consoles and go back and hug my PC. Console gamers really get the lesser experience with locked 30fps games.

I’m not arguing 60 fps is not better, I’m just saying it’s not necessary if the gameplay is excellent. The game is more important than the frame rate.

 

[Portugeezer]

If given an option, I usually pick performance mode. But now playing Zelda, I can honestly say I don't care.

When I don't have an option I just play and enjoy, and don't think about these silly things.

There is always the option to get a gaming PC if it is that important.

 

[BlackTron]

I want FPS and image quality first. Once I have enough power to handle those without taking a hit, THEN I would start making the screen bigger. Actually, I would prefer putting that power into games with more running under the hood as well, before upping the screen size. But the industry has spoken. We just want old engine games with cranked effects running at 4k on 75" TV. At 30FPS if necessary.

 

[jorgejjvr]

My favorite game this gen is 30 tho

Just make good games

 

[Edgelord79]

Tend to think higher locked frame rates are the true next gen experience for consoles but it’s harder to achieve so they go with the graphics sauce. Nice locked 60 would be perfect, but I’d rather have a locked 30 or 40 then a unlocked 60 with tearing.

 

[Hugare]

No one expects 60 fps on Switch.

If you prefer higher resolution, then good for you. But I don't purchase any game that I can't run at 60fps.

So you have only played on PC until now, right? 'Cause every console until now prioritized 30 FPS

So just stick to PC, if thats the case, and you wont be disapointed

But.... why not lower the fps even further? Why stick to 30fps and not do 20fps? Much more fidelity there! But wait... why not 10fps while we are at it? Imagine how many graphics you can fit in that frame rate. And what about a slideshow? Just have still images with some narration. Imagine how good those still images will look at 16k downsampled, with full Ray tracing. Way more graphics that 30fps. Who needs motion, right?

Other than that, sure, i don't agree on anything being mandatory. Devs should have the right to do as they please and people have the right to choose whatever they like.

I'm no expert, but I'm sure that you'll find articles and etc. explaining why 30 FPS was good enough and the norm.

I've been playing for decades on 30 FPS since I game on consoles mostly, and I'm totally fine with it.

Even on PC, I lock at 30 to have better graphics.

I would rather play Cyberpunk with path tracing at a unstable 30 than stable 60 with no shadows and etc.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I prefer 60 but you are painting yourself in a corner putting restrictions on developers.

Absolutely. If some developer wants to go crazy with UE5 let them, don't handcuff them with a 60fps requirement that takes half the available resources away.

With that said, if the game looks and plays like a PS4/X1 game, it should be 60fps.

 

[Dunker99]

Yes, I completely agree, OP. Developers should use 60fps as the baseline and build everything upon that. In my opinion, all the “bells and whistles” and increased graphical fidelity will mean nothing if it’s at 30fps and judders/smears as soon as you move the camera.

 

[SeasonedInTheAbyss]

I went with "Don't Care" as I don't own either of those consoles. Just a mid range ryzen 3600 and 3060ti plugged into a 1440p gsync 165hz monitor with a Switch on the side. Still playing the new Zelda and will probably buy Diablo4 next week, tho I feel dirty paying $70 a game. Thought that shit was over back in my SNES/Genesis days but here we are.

 

[SmokedMeat]

60fps should be mandatory minimum, but the cuts required to hit 60fps, would result in a lot of pissed off people who think these things run on magic.

 

[Trilobit]

I've been playing for decades on 30 FPS since I game on consoles mostly, and I'm totally fine with it.

NES and SNES had 60fps games. I played SMG2 on Wii recently on my old CRT TV and was amazed by the smooth 60fps. It was a bit jarring to jump to 30fps Animal Crossing on the Switch.

Personally I'm not too bothered by 30fps, but 60fps feels much more comfortable and easier on the eyes.

 

[SeasonedInTheAbyss]

NES and SNES had 60fps games. I played SMG2 on Wii recently on my old CRT TV and was amazed by the smooth 60fps. It was a bit jarring to jump to 30fps Animal Crossing on the Switch.

Personally I'm not too bothered by 30fps, but 60fps feels much more comfortable and easier on the eyes.

Yea kids these days forget that the old consoles had to output at 60hz as it was NTSC standard (50hz for you poor europe bastads)

 

[darrylgorn]

So you have only played on PC until now, right? 'Cause every console until now prioritized 30 FPS

Hence the title of the thread.

 

[SeasonedInTheAbyss]

Hence the title of the thread.

This is innacurate. Even the Sega Saturn turned up 60fps in VF2, Sega Rally, and Daytona USA (championship version)

 

[Tams]

Other than racing, fighting, and competitive real time games? Nah, 30fps is fine.

Nintendo made Mario Kart, Smash Ultimate, and Splatoon all run around 60fps because otherwise they would feel significantlyworse to play, unfair even.

For BotW, TotK, etc? It makes a difference but it doesn't make playing then feel much worse/noticeably bad for most people.

 

[darrylgorn]

This is innacurate. Even the Sega Saturn turned up 60fps in VF2, Sega Rally, and Daytona USA (championship version)

Should we start making it a uniform standard is the question of the thread.

Given how many people still cling to 30fps cuz teh grafix, maybe not.

 

[rofif]

45ish is good if you got vrr.

maybe on pc..... on ps5 locked 40 or 50+ since vrr works 48+
(unless a game supports lfc)

 

[Represent.]

Disgusting thread honestly

Are you trying to trigger me on purpose?

 

[HL3.exe]

Neh, smooth framepacing > higher framerate.

I'd rather see invest in impressive simulation leaps (physics, ai, reactivity), rather than 60fps+ but feeling like a ps4 title.

(I'll just power past it on my PC anyway)