Support NeoGAF

[TheGodfather07]

Because most core gamers don't give a shit about sports or racing games. They give them their own categories and call it a day. You'll never see them as contender for overall game of the year.

 

[Bragr]

You're not describing an argument, your reply is basically reductionism and dismissal. According to your (and the other poster) logic every sequel in history is "a wrapper", and if that is the argument, fine, but it's a different topic.

I'm not trying to "describe an argument", whatever you mean by that, and no one here is saying that every sequel is a new wrapper apart from you. Only the sequels that build straight from the previous one are. Like FIFA or Madden.

Forza Horizon is like that. It's like Call of Duty or Far Cry, it used the same structure in all their games. And that's fine, but the biggest thing about this iteration is the new setting. It looks like the game is structured in the exact same way as Forza Horizon 3 and 4.

However, the way they build these games is not boring yet, it's not exhausted. And the new shine from the new console will be cool, but there is no way in hell you can say this is a novel game. This is a safe sequel.

 

[NomadicAsiatic]

That's not what I was saying. I was saying that currently to be a GOTY it seems like a game has to have those character driven mechanics with plot, story and narrative to even be considered. It doesn't mean I think the opposite and they shouldn't be considered at all, far from it. A Mass Effect or Bioshock are certainly worthy GOTY contenders and rightly so. What I am saying is that a GOTY should be something that a great game can win regardless of the genre that it comes from. The criteria I mentioned are far from impossible to live up to, its just a case of judging any particular game against it's peers in the context of the genre it's in for that particular year. So, you would have all the different categories for stuff like simulation, action, rpg, racing, sports, best music, best art etc. and then the winner for each goes on to face off for GOTY. Instead we tend to see the GOTY shortlists mostly coming from the story driven action categories.

Your definition of what a game is (the highlighted) is to restrictive and you are automatically ruling out many great games. Tetris for example is a great game that has stood the test of time but by your definition it doesn't even meet the criteria for being a game at all. A game doesn't have to have a story, it doesn't have to even have any sound but it definitely does have to have gameplay. It's as simple as that, to be a game it has to have gameplay, that's all it needs to be classed as a game. All the other things such as story, graphics, audio, art direction, characters etc. are things that are wrapped around that gameplay and add the richness to the experience.

1. This isn’t really true. We see outliers in Sekiro and Overwatch, games that are more systems-driven than narrative driven. On the flip side, a game like Days Gone was raked over the coals for its lack of polish and originality.

2. I wasn’t making a one size fits all re: concerning games. A game like Tetris wouldn’t win GOTY because it’s bad or has bad gameplay, rather the puzzle genre has evolved beyond it. It certainly deserves its places in the annals of gaming history, but it’s no longer top of the pile. People expect a bit more for 60-70 bucks.

3. RE: GOTY qualifiers; Has that not happened? Last year Hades won a bunch of GOTY awards despite not fitting into a mainstream mold. As did Animal Crossing and others. The dominance of Last Of Us 2 doesn’t invalidate that. Perhaps if you’re hedging your bets for the VGAs, but that seems to have less prestige compared to past years.

 

[Masterbrew]

If driving games can be GOTY then why go with the mainstream arcade title everyone knows? The deep driving pleasure is found in the sim titles.

 

[Guilty_AI]

If driving games can be GOTY then why go with the mainstream arcade title everyone knows? The deep driving pleasure is found in the sim titles.

Sim racers are probably more mainstream nowadays than arcade ones

 

[Rudius]

I love racing games, but for one to be GOTY it would have to be very ground braking, like the first GT in 1997 or the first Mario Kart.

 

[Guilty_AI]

This one has a good base for some great stuff

 

[BennyBlanco]

Who cares about awards. Gaming industry giving itself awards and jerking each other off has no bearing on how much I like a game.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

FH5 looking to be the ultimate driving game to what smash is to fighting games.

No doubt it's gonna get mad props on release.

 

[lukilladog]

Media is bogus, they don´t really reward games on their own merits.

 

[Turk1993]

TLOU 2 has a lot more deep in history (you like it or not) than Forza, gameplay, animation, dogs, AI, guns, everything is not just better graphics, it affects the way you play the game.
Gears 5 same things...
RDR2 same thing...

These are sequels that are basically the top of the top in their genre. All those games are evaluated in how much the history impacts the overall game, that's why someone can like the first game of any of those games and dislike the sequels because even if the gameplay mechanic is there, there are sufficient changes (history, sound design, map design, weapons, difficulty, overall lore, AI changes) that can make any of the games you mention be a """BAD GAME""" even if it very similar to its predecessor.

I don't think, ANY Forza, if they don't cut a significant amount of things to do, can be worse than the previous one. There is no risk at all, in the history department, there is no risk in the gameplay department, there is no risk in the world or AI design department. No significant risk is taken in those games.

Nah, i played all the games i listed. Its 95% the same as there first game, in TLOU 2 you just aim shoot, stealth en close combat like you did with TLOU 1. All the other things you see are just better and different animations, and the gameplay is not deeper than Forza. Like i said you are one of the guys that think that all the cars drive the same and that its a full on arcade racer with no depth in it. Every car has different driving physics in Forza, every tire gives a different feeling and grip on what type of road you are on or offroad, the engine and suspension move like the real car based on driving, every body kit effect you driving with simulated physics, every weather effects your grip and speed, most of the object are breakable and have realistic feel to it, the heat even changes the amount of smoke that comes out of your tires, you can tune most standard parts and all the added uprades in the garage that effect your gameplay drasticly. So tell me how is the gameplay more deep in TLOU when its literally aim shoot with 10 different weapons that feel just a little different and has a pretty standard melee systeem (with standard i mean not like UFC where every kick and punch damages the area and the bones over time realisticly). This is what i mean, if you don't love racing games or driving games you won't notice most of the things i mentioned above. 99% of the games are almost the same as there precursor with just the upgrades i mentioned. And go play Forza Horizon 1 or 2 and come back to 4 and 5, you will see how much there is changed and how much different it is vs the first 2 games. It a racing gaming ofcourse you gonna race in all Forza's what else do you expect? to fly over mexico or go to space to fight aliens or something?

I'm not trying to "describe an argument", whatever you mean by that, and no one here is saying that every sequel is a new wrapper apart from you. Only the sequels that build straight from the previous one are. Like FIFA or Madden.

Forza Horizon is like that. It's like Call of Duty or Far Cry, it used the same structure in all their games. And that's fine, but the biggest thing about this iteration is the new setting. It looks like the game is structured in the exact same way as Forza Horizon 3 and 4.

However, the way they build these games is not boring yet, it's not exhausted. And the new shine from the new console will be cool, but there is no way in hell you can say this is a novel game. This is a safe sequel.

How are they playing it safe when every Forza adds something new like BR, dynamic seasons, Forzathon events, custom race maker in FH4 and dynamic weather, tuning and body kits, 3d puddles with aquaplanning, realistic sky tech, Full simulated snow and ice, custom festivals, full open world without bariers in FH3 and rain, engine and parts tuning, more open spaces, breakable trees, car meets, online custom events in FH2. And i probably forgot somethings but it gives you a idea how much they added new things everytime and some of those things are not safe at all like the sky, dynamic seasons , br,... Like i said the main focus still gonna be racing as its a racing game what else do you expect? to fly over mexico or go to space to fight aliens or something?

 

[Clear]

It's a fair point you make.

However...

In a performance sport you do not judge the competitors and award points for their hairstyle or their backstory, its purely judged by the rules for that particular sport. Sport is also rarely subjective and everyone competing is playing by the same clearly defined rules.

What you are saying is that a game for GOTY is judged on many metrics and lets say for arguments sake its judged out of 10 for 5 simple categories.

Gameplay /10
Graphics /10
Sound /10
Story /10
Characters / 10

So, say a narrative driven story based game that gets a 7 in all categories and a total score of 35/50. But, a racing game that has no story or characters gets 10/10 in the first 3 categories but 0 for the last two and gets a total score of 30/50. Because of the arbitrary fact that it doesn't compete in some of these categories it automatically loses, its like a bald super athlete with amnesia who loses hair style and back story points in the performance sport.

If we are going to tack on these categories that some genres simply do not naturally have why don't we also have categories such as the best feeling of motion, the most accurate physics or the precision feel of the controls? All highly important technical gameplay categories but also categories that the story driven action games rarely do well at.

The other thing you need to consider is that GOTY awards/nominations are usually the product of decision by committee. This is significant as it means that if your game excels across a broad spectrum of elements, you're also more likely to hit the "sweet spot" (what they subjectively consider most valuable or memorable) for different individual reviewers.

Its not "fair" exactly, but you can objectively conclude why certain types of product have an advantage over others.

 

[mejin]

well Sony's games are usually super shallow in terms of gameplay, which should be by far the biggest factor when it comes to rewarding a videogame

And you are talking this in a thread where the OP wants GotY to an arcade racing.

 

[Topher]

Nah, i played all the games i listed. Its 95% the same as there first game, in TLOU 2 you just aim shoot, stealth en close combat like you did with TLOU 1. All the other things you see are just better and different animations, and the gameplay is not deeper than Forza.

Why are we even comparing opinions on the "depth" of gameplay of TLOU2 to a racing game at all?

 

[BattleScar]

I get it that you don't find racing games fun but that doesn't mean to say that its a fact that racing games aren't fun. Do you really think that people who love them aren't having fun? if anything it could be argued much easier that something like LOU2 isn't fun to play. "Come on kids, let's go play as a load of post apocalyptic survivors brutally and visually accurately murdering each other!"

The truth is that different people have fun playing a huge variety of different games and racing games are one of the longest running genres there is. The popularity of them must be enough for them to keep making them year after year. Sure they may not be as popular as they once were but they are still pretty popular. The issue is that there are quite a lot of games including racing games that seem to be almost entirely excluded from getting GOTY awards. FH5 might just do it this year but that will be also largely due to it not being a particularly strong year for the usual GOTY contenders.

This is exactly why GOTY awards shouldn't matter to you.
A style of game that isn't popular will not win GOTY awards because people who give those awards do not care for them.
Its not their fault they don't care about them, they shouldn't be expected to care about them. Its all subjective. If you want to see more recognition then join the industry and give out those plaudits.

 

[Turk1993]

Why are we even comparing opinions on the "depth" of gameplay of TLOU2 to a racing game at all?

I know its stupid but the way people are commenting here like Forza Horizons gameplay has no depth really shows how much they know the game, it was just a weird comparison to show that there is more in forza's gameplay than most people know about. Like i said if you are not into racing games you will overlook all of this and call this "another Forza" without knowing the changes and feeling each game gets, that was my point

 

[Bragr]

How are they playing it safe when every Forza adds something new like BR, dynamic seasons, Forzathon events, custom race maker in FH4 and dynamic weather, tuning and body kits, 3d puddles with aquaplanning, realistic sky tech, Full simulated snow and ice, custom festivals, full open world without bariers in FH3 and rain, engine and parts tuning, more open spaces, breakable trees, car meets, online custom events in FH2. And i probably forgot somethings but it gives you a idea how much they added new things everytime and some of those things are not safe at all like the sky, dynamic seasons , br,... Like i said the main focus still gonna be racing as its a racing game what else do you expect? to fly over mexico or go to space to fight aliens or something?

Do you think graphical upgrades and car meets are breaking new ground? absolutely everything you listed is stuff they adjust with every title.

Doing something new would be like making it a sim-racing game, or adding drivable planes or boats, or a allow the driver to walk. Stuff that takes risks and can hurt the game if it fails.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

It' sad that there are so many people who disregard games as GOTY material simply because they don't have a good story. This is GAMES that we are talking about not movies... The one thing that sets any game apart from a movie or a book is that they are playable, to be a game it has to be playable. Yet when it comes to GOTY awards all of a sudden that number one most important differentiator goes out the window and we all of a sudden have to have narrative, story, interesting and deep characters.

To first be nominated for GOTY a game should first be the best in its own genre by some margin. Then each game judged by how it excels in the context of the genre it's in, how much of a technical and genre defining experience and by how much it moves that genre forward. The game that is strongest using these markers is the GOTY.

Games should be celebrated and given accolades for what they are, GAMES! Not given the accolades because they are the most like other mediums of entertainment they are trying to copy.

Tetris Effect Connected for GOTY when

 

[Guilty_AI]

Doing something new would be like making it a sim-racing game, or adding drivable planes or boats, or a allow the driver to walk. Stuff that takes risks and can hurt the game if it fails.

All have been tried by other racers before and failed for the most part.
You need very specific types of driving games for stuff like walking or plane/boats to work

One game tha has all of this and manages to make it work well is Beamng

 

[Turk1993]

Do you think graphical upgrades and car meets are breaking new ground? absolutely everything you listed is stuff they adjust with every title.

Doing something new would be like making it a sim-racing game, or adding drivable planes or boats, or a allow the driver to walk. Stuff that takes risks and can hurt the game if it fails.

So you expect in the next TLOU to teleport in space or drive a spaceship because otherwise its all the same and nothing groundbreaking right? Why would a Forza Horizon game have boats or planes, its a CAR driving game what do you expect a fps mode where you can drop of a plane and shoot animals in the wild Mexico with lazer beams. And how is BR in a racing game not groundbreaking or dynamic seasons, wich other racing game has done it before and at the same qaulity as Forza is doing? What other open world racing game has such a dynamic world where everything effect your driving and the physics? How is that not groundbreaking?

 

[Bragr]

So you expect in the next TLOU to teleport in space or drive a spaceship because otherwise its all the same and nothing groundbreaking right? Why would a Forza Horizon game have boats or planes, its a CAR driving game what do you expect a fps mode where you can drop of a plane and shoot animals in the wild Mexico with lazer beams. And how is BR in a racing game not groundbreaking or dynamic seasons, wich other racing game has done it before and at the same qaulity as Forza is doing? What other open world racing game has such a dynamic world where everything effect your driving and the physics? How is that not groundbreaking?

BR was in 4, and dynamic seasons are just an advancement of what they have already done.

You are thinking I'm attacking the game and are making these weird Last of Us mentions that make no sense. I'm a big Forza fan, the Motorsport and the Horizon series both, played all of them, but Forza has already done 4 other open-world racing games. 5 is a refinement of the series, that's cool, but I don't think you will find anyone else but you who find 5 groundbreaking.

 

[Turk1993]

BR was in 4, and dynamic seasons are just an advancement of what they have already done.

You are thinking I'm attacking the game and are making these weird Last of Us mentions that make no sense. I'm a big Forza fan, the Motorsport and the Horizon series both, played all of them, but Forza has already done 4 other open-world racing games. 5 is a refinement of the series, that's cool, but I don't think you will find anyone else but you who find 5 groundbreaking.

Look man i don't say that 5 is the most groundbraking Forza ever but every time a new Forza comes it always add's something brand new and innovative in a way. I mentioned those new things in previous Forza's games because when they launched it got the same reactions "oh its another Forza that looks like the last one". And there are couple of new things outside graphics, sound,... in 5 that add alot to the game. And TBH i really don't care about the awards, its just the people always overlooking racing games even on this forum. When a console launches with a racing game they automaticly say oh its a racing game ofcourse its gonna look good because its simple or has no animations or story this and that. Stuf like that is just straight disrespect to the devs that put there hard time in those game. You know how much effort they put to make a game like Forza Horizon where they scan the sky, environment, hunderds of cars and all the other things to give us ll those little details that real car fans love and appreciate. It just gets overlooked everytime, but when lets say Drake's hair are moving from the wind everybody notice it and talk about it (which i like also and are nice details ofc). Thats my point, otherwise Forza always scored good and gets lots of other awards.

 

[Bragr]

Look man i don't say that 5 is the most groundbraking Forza ever but every time a new Forza comes it always add's something brand new and innovative in a way. I mentioned those new things in previous Forza's games because when they launched it got the same reactions "oh its another Forza that looks like the last one". And there are couple of new things outside graphics, sound,... in 5 that add alot to the game. And TBH i really don't care about the awards, its just the people always overlooking racing games even on this forum. When a console launches with a racing game they automaticly say oh its a racing game ofcourse its gonna look good because its simple or has no animations or story this and that. Stuf like that is just straight disrespect to the devs that put there hard time in those game. You know how much effort they put to make a game like Forza Horizon where they scan the sky, environment, hunderds of cars and all the other things to give us ll those little details that real car fans love and appreciate. It just gets overlooked everytime, but when lets say Drake's hair are moving from the wind everybody notice it and talk about it (which i like also and are nice details ofc). Thats my point, otherwise Forza always scored good and gets lots of other awards.

The reason why it doesn't get awards is because the gameplay of driving is more static compared to other games that play differently from iteration to iteration. For example, The Last of Us 2 changed combat aspects with more mobility, better AI, more meele, and stuff like dogs, which makes the gameplay different than the first. In racing games, you don't get those big changes, the racing is too similar from title to title, so people aren't as taken by the new iterations. You get changes in presentation and setting, but not gameplay.

That said, I'm pretty sure Forza Horizon 3 got some strong recognition. People loved that game.

 

[CeeJay]

Do you think graphical upgrades and car meets are breaking new ground? absolutely everything you listed is stuff they adjust with every title.

Doing something new would be like making it a sim-racing game, or adding drivable planes or boats, or a allow the driver to walk. Stuff that takes risks and can hurt the game if it fails.

I'm sorry, you really don't know what you're talking about. Forza Horizon is not GTA. It's a glorious festival of car racing and there is nothing else close. For me, I preferred FH2 to the newer ones but it is quite clear that FH5 is raising the bar and Playground haven't rested on their laurels with their past success. It doesn't need boats or planes and there is certainly no need to get out of the car.

 

[Turk1993]

The reason why it doesn't get awards is because the gameplay of driving is more static compared to other games that play differently from iteration to iteration. For example, The Last of Us 2 changed combat aspects with more mobility, better AI, more meele, and stuff like dogs, which makes the gameplay different than the first. In racing games, you don't get those big changes, the racing is too similar from title to title, so people aren't as taken by the new iterations. You get changes in presentation and setting, but not gameplay.

That said, I'm pretty sure Forza Horizon 3 got some strong recognition. People loved that game.

Again, how are aquaplanning not effecting the gameplay or snow surfaces or the hot wheels expansion or the lego expansion with all the jumps and boosters around the map with crazy stunts. How is this all the same from games before the features got add to. Go play Forza Horizon 1 and play 4 or 5 after it and tell me if it still plays the same. You couldn't even leave the roads in Forza Horizon 1, it was 90% closed asphalt or dirt roads. In Horizon 2 they opened every thing and there where alot more verticality and more offroad terrain in the map which affected the gameplay. In FH3 we got different bio's with sand, forrest, city... and they all played differently and added to the gameplay where cars drive thru jungle with puddles that affect the car handeling or on sand where the grip was less or perfectly flat surfaces in the city. You talk stuff like mobility, dogs and "more melee" like more melee you say like the first one just with different animations. Also the dogs are just a different enemy type like the monsters nothing groundbreaking here and mobility was just the same as TLOU ( same horses). the Gameplay of TLOU 2 is literally 90% the same as TLOU 1 with added animations and just more of the same as you say. Forza has exprimentend and added alot more different gameplay related things throughout the games than TLOU 2 has over TLOU 1.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Official xbox magazine gave PGR3 the GOTY back then, does that count?

 

[Elbow Identity Shallow]

I know I've already replied but to add.
Being seen as having the Game of the Year quality obviously doesn't equate to winning a game of the year award simply because every game that whoever picks this stuff believes is of game of the year quality is competing with every other game that they believe equates to having game of the year quality. There are many of these awards and all are equally valueless to fist party studios but I don't think that any of the Game of the Year awards give it to every game that they believe is representative of that quality, they'll give it to the one that they see as the best of that group of games.
I do feel that awards are largely meaningless for anybody who isn't a new studio needing the publicity to see la new game so I really don't follow any awards but out of interest, does anybody know how many player nominated awards Forza Horizon 4 has won in the awards season? I'm not talking about people on places like this saying it's the best game ever but in more of the many awards that are allocated every year in games shows, publications, etc.
Just seems like an interesting counterpoint to the fact that it apparently dodn't win any awards that were called "Game of the Year" even though it did win loads of awards with other names.

 

[Bragr]

I'm sorry, you really don't know what you're talking about. Forza Horizon is not GTA. It's a glorious festival of car racing and there is nothing else close. For me, I preferred FH2 to the newer ones but it is quite clear that FH5 is raising the bar and Playground haven't rested on their laurels with their past success. It doesn't need boats or planes and there is certainly no need to get out of the car.

You need to re-read what I wrote, it was examples of novel ideas in the game that would be risky. I'm not actually saying they should turn it into a fucking boat game.

 

[Bragr]

Again, how are aquaplanning not effecting the gameplay or snow surfaces or the hot wheels expansion or the lego expansion with all the jumps and boosters around the map with crazy stunts. How is this all the same from games before the features got add to. Go play Forza Horizon 1 and play 4 or 5 after it and tell me if it still plays the same. You couldn't even leave the roads in Forza Horizon 1, it was 90% closed asphalt or dirt roads. In Horizon 2 they opened every thing and there where alot more verticality and more offroad terrain in the map which affected the gameplay. In FH3 we got different bio's with sand, forrest, city... and they all played differently and added to the gameplay where cars drive thru jungle with puddles that affect the car handeling or on sand where the grip was less or perfectly flat surfaces in the city. You talk stuff like mobility, dogs and "more melee" like more melee you say like the first one just with different animations. Also the dogs are just a different enemy type like the monsters nothing groundbreaking here and mobility was just the same as TLOU ( same horses). the Gameplay of TLOU 2 is literally 90% the same as TLOU 1 with added animations and just more of the same as you say. Forza has exprimentend and added alot more different gameplay related things throughout the games than TLOU 2 has over TLOU 1.

Aquaplaning is not a huge fucking thing. Snow has been in a billion car games. Stunts have been in a billion car games. You are making waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much out of good but small changes. These things you are talking about, opening up the map, are not the gameplay. That's the level. Forza Horizon has made good changes, but it's not some mind-blowing award-winning changes.

The original TLOU was more of a cover shooter, Joel was more slow-paced, the sequel changed Ellie's movement, gave her the ability to scale surfaces quickly and dash, and added new melee attacks and faster-moving, smarter, and more agile enemies, the result is faster and different playing game. It's still similar to the first, but there are clearly different things going on in the gameplay.

The core gameplay of Forza Horizon and the racers it's built upon haven't changed in 20 years. The changes in racing games have been more about the tracks and presentation, and how arcade or sim they go, but it's extremely difficult to change driving gameplay, there are very clear parameters to what a car is and how it drives, only so much you can do with it.

 

[Turk1993]

Aquaplaning is not a huge fucking thing. Snow has been in a billion car games. Stunts have been in a billion car games. You are making waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much out of good but small changes. These things you are talking about, opening up the map, are not the gameplay. That's the level. Forza Horizon has made good changes, but it's not some mind-blowing award-winning changes.

The original TLOU was more of a cover shooter, Joel was more slow-paced, the sequel changed Ellie's movement, gave her the ability to scale surfaces quickly and dash, and added new melee attacks and faster-moving, smarter, and more agile enemies, the result is faster and different playing game. It's still similar to the first, but there are clearly different things going on in the gameplay.

The core gameplay of Forza Horizon and the racers it's built upon haven't changed in 20 years. The changes in racing games have been more about the tracks and presentation, and how arcade or sim they go, but it's extremely difficult to change driving gameplay, there are very clear parameters to what a car is and how it drives, only so much you can do with it.

So aquaplanning is not huge, snow is in every game, stunts are in every game but shooting and meleeing enemies is something that only TLOU 2 invented and something mindblowing? You say that Ellie moves faster and that the game is faster, how is that a bigger change than
going from this

to this

and this

and this

also you can fly in Forza btw, another feature added since Forza Horizon 3

The way you downplay all of the added gameplay changes is just comical. You think Ellie moving faster and having new melee animations are more drastic changes to gameplay than the gameplay features added in Forza games. I say it again, TLOU 2 plays 90% like TLOU 1 ( not complaining plays great btw) there are small changes like jumping and laying flat but hey those features are already in million other games right!

 

[CeeJay]

You need to re-read what I wrote, it was examples of novel ideas in the game that would be risky. I'm not actually saying they should turn it into a fucking boat game.

Ah ok, my bad.

Got me thinking though, what if another team had access to the FH environments and built an entirely different game on top of it? I know there are no interiors modelled but the environments and weather are way better than those in PUBG for example.

 

[P.Jack]

So aquaplanning is not huge, snow is in every game, stunts are in every game but shooting and meleeing enemies is something that only TLOU 2 invented and something mindblowing? You say that Ellie moves faster and that the game is faster, how is that a bigger change than
going from this

to this

and this

and this

also you can fly in Forza btw, another feature added since Forza Horizon 3

The way you downplay all of the added gameplay changes is just comical. You think Ellie moving faster and having new melee animations are more drastic changes to gameplay than the gameplay features added in Forza games. I say it again, TLOU 2 plays 90% like TLOU 1 ( not complaining plays great btw) there are small changes like jumping and laying flat but hey those features are already in million other games right!

 

[Bragr]

So aquaplanning is not huge, snow is in every game, stunts are in every game but shooting and meleeing enemies is something that only TLOU 2 invented and something mindblowing? You say that Ellie moves faster and that the game is faster, how is that a bigger change than
going from this

The way you downplay all of the added gameplay changes is just comical. You think Ellie moving faster and having new melee animations are more drastic changes to gameplay than the gameplay features added in Forza games. I say it again, TLOU 2 plays 90% like TLOU 1 ( not complaining plays great btw) there are small changes like jumping and laying flat but hey those features are already in million other games right!

I'm not saying that snow and stunts are in every game, but they were in the previous one. Do you think you are gonna drive around and feel that the game plays differently because of aquaplaning? it's a cool detail that you will feel once in a while, that's about it.

I have not said that the changes from TLOU 1 to 2 are mindblowing, you are overexaggerating to try and prove your point. But I can't think of any third-person action game that plays exactly like TLOU 2, even though the first was is similar.

I think you misunderstand what gameplay is. Gameplay is how a player can interact with the game, meaning, what happens when you press buttons. Although, levels and NPC and tons of stuff can affect that.

So in Forza and other driving games, the gameplay is moving forward, breaking and sliding, and stuff like that, which is extremely difficult to change when all you have to work with is a car. In the TLOU, you can change so much more, when you press a button and the character dashes or jumps over something, they have to build the game differently around the new gameplay options.

A better example is God of War, which plays completely different from III to the reboot, making people have a different experience than the previous game. In racing games, you rarely if ever get changes to the gameplay of that nature, which is why they struggle to hit the big awards. That's why the experience you have in 5 will be relatively similar to 4 and 3.

 

[22•22]

Gran Turismo Sport is my most played PS4 game and I'm not even a car enthusiast perse AND I play with a controller like a pleb

 

[Guilty_AI]

...AND I play with a controller like a pleb

I play DIrt Rally 2 with a keyboard and yes i'm flexing my insanity skills

 

[teezzy]

Beyond seeking recommendations, its strange to care what someone else's favorite game was. I'd rather play my own

 

[22•22]

I play DIrt Rally 2 with a keyboard and yes i'm flexing my insanity skills

You crazy person you...

Dat digital input

I can always spot the dpad players in replays. Jittery motion galore lol

 

[22•22]

Beyond seeking recommendations, its strange to care what someone else's favorite game was. I'd rather play my own

Sure. It's more about the farcical nature of these award shows

 

[22•22]

I play DIrt Rally 2 with a keyboard and yes i'm flexing my insanity skills

As if Dirt2 isn't difficult enough on it's own!

 

[Guilty_AI]

As if Dirt2 isn't difficult enough on it's own!

next step will be beamng with a mouse

 

[22•22]

next step will be beamng with a mouse

Or via Kinect

 

[Guilty_AI]

Or via Kinect

 

[22•22]

 

[mekes]

Because racing games tend to deal with incremental upgrades over time. There is only so much new ideas being added to racing games. If they add a story mode, it probably won’t blow your mind. A better livery editor or adding better puddles on the ground does not make a GOTY. It might be your favourite game of the year, Driveclub was mine back in the day, and every PGR game. But they were just racing games where I liked the handling better than others.

 

[Raven117]

It kinda doesn’t matter. Those folks that are into these are really into them. They don’t need the hype of “goty” to move copies.

 

[Turk1993]

I'm not saying that snow and stunts are in every game, but they were in the previous one. Do you think you are gonna drive around and feel that the game plays differently because of aquaplaning? it's a cool detail that you will feel once in a while, that's about it.

I have not said that the changes from TLOU 1 to 2 are mindblowing, you are overexaggerating to try and prove your point. But I can't think of any third-person action game that plays exactly like TLOU 2, even though the first was is similar.

I think you misunderstand what gameplay is. Gameplay is how a player can interact with the game, meaning, what happens when you press buttons. Although, levels and NPC and tons of stuff can affect that.

So in Forza and other driving games, the gameplay is moving forward, breaking and sliding, and stuff like that, which is extremely difficult to change when all you have to work with is a car. In the TLOU, you can change so much more, when you press a button and the character dashes or jumps over something, they have to build the game differently around the new gameplay options.

A better example is God of War, which plays completely different from III to the reboot, making people have a different experience than the previous game. In racing games, you rarely if ever get changes to the gameplay of that nature, which is why they struggle to hit the big awards. That's why the experience you have in 5 will be relatively similar to 4 and 3.

How you gonna say this "But I can't think of any third-person action game that plays exactly like TLOU 2, even though the first was is similar." and than say this "So in Forza and other driving games, the gameplay is moving forward, breaking and sliding, and stuff like that, which is extremely difficult to change when all you have to work with is a car" Its like me saying in TLOU 2 you go behind cover and shoot people like all the other 3d person games. You think that all the racing games have samey gameplay mechanics and are limited in what can differ. Do you think that The Crew has same gameplay as Forza Horizon or Burnout? So if i say that Metal Gear Solid 5 plays the same as TLOU 2 because they both are 3d person action games where you can shoot, take cover and lay on the ground and crouch. Cuz they use the same buttons for the same actions just have different animations so they are playing the same. This is untrue for Forza and its untrue for TLOU because both of them play different than any other game in there genre. And a well received franchise doesn't need to change there well received gameplay mechanics all the time, why do you need to change something that already works soo well.

 

[The Eradicator]

The same goes for other racing games, on top of simulators, with Microsoft Flight Simulator being a prime example alongside other games that are often wrongly seen as "niche" (usually because they require too much involvement and skill to be appreciated by those who give such awards, who rarely dabble beyond shooters and action adventures).

The reason is pretty simple: Most Game of the Year awards aren't really designed to honor games and developers. They're little more than engagement gimmicks for those who host them.

The consequence is that giving awards to games that are seen as "niche" runs at risk to provide less engagement, so they're overlooked.

Based on polls I've seen, I think racing games are the very definition of "niche". They aren't nearly as popular as they were years ago. GT used to smash sales, for example.

 

[The Eradicator]

other could ask if far cry 6 was strongly criticized for being same since far cry 3 will horizon 5 get same treatment ? ;d

I highly doubt it. Reviewers are very selective on when they choose to criticize things, and when they let things slide. There's zero consistency

 

[The Eradicator]

Yeah Bloodborne, God of War, Death Stranding, Returnal And Uncharted series lack gameplay……….
( Some of the best you mean )

How does Death Stranding have good gameplay? That's a hard "no" from me

 

[The Eradicator]

But thats exactly what you are describing, being "too niche" basically means it's not popular enough for GOTY. Only popular games are considered for GOTY nomination.

Control barely sold any copies at launch, and was nominates though. The real thing is that the people doing the voting just want to fit in with their peers, so they all go along with the same mindset. Winners every year are quite predictable.