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If Not for The PS5, Final Fantasy 16 Would Still be in Development, Says Game Director
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Game Dev Platform
Ratchet and Clank was the game which allegedly required fast SSD. DF showed that the game ran with zero issues from a budget drive which had access speeds around 3.5 GB/s which is around what you get on later SATA drives.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
well....
Klosshufvud
Member
Can't believe you fall for this shit. Let me guess, you also believed all that crap about The Cell? I remember when fanboys were claiming PS4 games would not run on PC since it had 8GB VRAM. Turns out those games ran even better on 2GB GPUs.
It's all the same tiresome corporate PR and if you've been around, you'll know this is nothing new. Marketers will cling to that one feature exclusive to that platform and overemphasise it into absurdity. Do you really believe that FF16 will only run on Gen 4 SSDs and that its design is fundamentally based around storage speed? Or the more plausible explanation that a Sony-funded game will promote Sony made products?
The hell? I'm not talking about if games can run on PC or not I'm talking about the dev being able to make the game faster because of less limitation which is what the thread is about.
When you make a game for the PC you can't just pick these high specs & build the game around it because everyone isn't using the same specs.
Beer Baelly
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Varteras
Gold Member
Yeah! That poopyhead!
Klosshufvud
Member
My point is that whenever a game is touted as only possible because it uses [console specific attribute] it has turned out false. Same was true with The Cell. Same was true with PS4 8GB VRAM and same is true of PS5 SSD. DF already tested Ratchet PS5 on a normal SSD and it worked fine. It was just marketing talk to market an attribute exclusive to one platform.
A Gen 3 or Gen 4 SSD will have neglible impact on game design. The far more crucial bottlenecks are in GPU, CPU and RAM. That's not to say that a game can have impressive console-specific optimizations but you could just as well argue that those optimizations require time and effort which would be opposite to the statement in original post.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Almost as if a.) Insomniac said they ended up being limited more by their engine than the disk (which is great, this is how you want HW + OS stack, to disappear) and b.) the I/O solution PS5 has is not just the SSD, but a whole host of tech (HW: custom SSD controller, DRAM cache, big I/O complex with HW accelerated decompression [Kraken], coherency and memory mapping, dedicated DMAC, cache scrubbers, etc… and SW: the new low overhead I/O API’s, etc…) designed to make it easier to make use of low latency and high bandwidth SSD’s.
NVMe based drives connected through PCI-E has advantages that make use in games easier (support for different priority levels, trading some bandwidth for that in drives that do not support the same number of priority levels as the internal SSD solution… so maybe the internal SSD drive might use a bit less than 3.5 GB/s too).
Did insomniac say that before the game released or after DF proved the claims to be PR fluff? Either way there hasn't been a game where SSD read speed of PS5 has been the focal point of design. The SSD difference was always a marketing tool. FFXVI would just load more slowly on a lower spec SSD. The real difference is RAM, VRAM, and VRAM.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Most times this was not the statement, NO PC CAN RUN THIS (leaving alone that making a game for PC means handling a whole variety of PC’s not just those that can brute force things). Sure we can sit here and throw shade at developers because of longer loading times and/or stuttering in PC games and refuse to admit there are any pros with consoles and any cons with the PC model.
Your hyperbole aside, in later generation titles (and sometimes in reference with the PS3 HW itself and how CELL had to save the GPU’s butt more than once), it was referred to either its performance alone or in relation to similarly priced HW and consoles. Even much later, developers in internal presentations or at GDC (see the Ubisoft presentation about their engine evolution for Xbox One and PS4 vs Xbox 360 and PS3…). In isolation CELL was actually a strong design, despite the bile
.It depends on how far you need to work to extract the performance you need, these are not synthetic benchmarks. On consoles, lowering pressure on RAM is dependent on the SSD and all the HW they built around it (like HW decompression built in the I/O unit) and how easy it is to extract performance (we have seen a great reduction in loading time in many games, some BC ones especially on XSX|S, as well as much faster/immediate fast travel, and we have seen games like R&C pushing streaming much farther than you could have done on the previous generation, we have seen smaller games [especially on PS5])… it does not mean that there is not a lot of work to do to actually go from using the low latency and high bandwidth new drives and console I/O solutions (low latency and low CPU overhead are already at play) to maximise it.
The original statement simply says “the console HW and SW/API’s, as well as being able to focus on a single HW first, allowed us to complete our work sooner”. It is not unreasonable that if they had to add PC support day and date or if they had a console that did not have these strengths it would have taken longer. Yoshi-P and his team have always earned their trust and their argument makes sense despite how edgy being extra cynical may feel
.They never said it was only possible because of PS5 he said it would be still in development if it wasn't for PS5.
Look at Hogwarts Legacy it's taking more time on PS4/Xbox One & Switch
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
As far as I recall it was around the same time and independent, it matches what any dev has said about transitioning to completely new file I/O API’s (seeing on PC’s how few are using DirectStorage and on consoles, both XSX|S and PS5, not all titles are pushing the I/O yet… not much further past the bottlenecks their engine has on other components for the moment [see your point and theirs is not that much different so not sure why we have all this angst]).
You can keep believing what you want, people can keep telling you again that SSD means SSD + custom SSD controller + custom I/O complex + new file I/O API’s, developers show you smaller games, they can show very very fast fast travel and world streaming in games (bandwidth of the drive and latency are not the same thing and R&C stresses both for example), much better startup loading times, no extra stuttering in new UE4/UE5 games, and all despite the smallest increase in memory between generations. I guess it is always like this when multiplatform games start being built for the latest console generation and PC requirements change and/or we have problems on PC versions at launch (see DF for the last few months: if the devs are not lazy on XSX|S and PS5 but only on PC… this is the power of the SSD solutions on consoles, not s marketing/PR tool
) or the PC game version is delayed…
Lysandros
Member
It seems you are stuck at 2020. PS5 has also (different) advantages in CPU, GPU and V/RAM just like XSX. And the difference in I/O hardware isn't slight.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Does it burn seeing positive praise for the HW?
Can't believe people still fall for this b.s.
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Ivan
Member
Still way too many clueless comments like this...
hemo memo
Gold Member
It is called PR.
Tomeru
Member
Its the only way to compete going forward.
Kenpachii
Member
Can't believe people still fall for this b.s.
How is a SSD even powerful, its just fast lamo.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sure buddy
.
Ivan
Member
Another clueless comment. Theoretical maximum speeds have nothing to do with subject here. Watch road to ps5 presentation.
It can work like that on PS5, yes...with it's i/o system.
Try that on PC with the same drive today .
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01011001
Banned
Do you have any education in the subject or are you calling everybody clueless because an easily digestible piece of marketing fluff? I had the same opinion after reading the transcript of road to PS5. Keep the vague insults to yourself unless you have definitive proof of a game that only works on PS5 because it uses a SSD. Between ratchet and clank and godfall the evidence isn't there.
