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In 2021 Sony accounted for 46% of all spend on console games, hardware and services

dvdvideo

Member
Show me Microsoft bought software on pc? Show me the numbers? Not numbers of how many players. Actually sales?

I’ll wait……..

Please, Forza 5 alone probably outsold those 2 games combined, let alone physchonauts 2, flight simulator and halo infinite. Your dillusional.

Plus every catalog pc game ms has including all of Bethesda titles? It's not even close.
 
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Zok310

Member
Very dependent on Sony having the primary console that people buy services/MTX on. The more Nintendo and Xbox eat into market share that decreases. This is why Jim wanted to convert PS4 owners to PS5 very quickly - that hasn’t worked out for obvious reasons.
If it aint working out for sony then it can't be working out for xbox and nintendo, sony is not in a vacuum, whatever impacts them impacts the other 2 the exact same way.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I can have sex with my wife while whining on NeoGAF, thank you very much.
Kamala Harris Listening GIF by Election 2020

please continue
 
Did MS's official acquisition of Bethesda (and their finances) fall into this time period?

In that case, does that 1% increase might represent Bethesda's numbers? I am wondering if this way we can somewhat estimate how much Bethesda added to Microsoft's revenue.

I know there are tons of other factors that would pollute the calculation but perhaps can give us some idea? They did have at least one release of Deathloop. The revenue of which would go to Zenmiax/Microsoft.
 
If it aint working out for sony then it can't be working out for xbox and nintendo, sony is not in a vacuum, whatever impacts them impacts the other 2 the exact same way.
This is true, but currently Xbox has GamePass, a much stronger PC offering and a seemingly more readily available Series S as more of a pull over into that ecosystem.

Sony’s strength is their first party games, but their games are more expensive (to the casual eye) and no matter how excellent their games are they can’t sell more consoles than their limit. This disproportionately affects them as they stand to lose more over time.

Spartacus launching soon is a very good move.
 

reksveks

Member
Did MS's official acquisition of Bethesda (and their finances) fall into this time period?

In that case, does that 1% increase might represent Bethesda's numbers? I am wondering if this way we can somewhat estimate how much Bethesda added to Microsoft's revenue.

I know there are tons of other factors that would pollute the calculation but perhaps can give us some idea? They did have at least one release of Deathloop. The revenue of which would go to Zenmiax/Microsoft.
Just a bit of context that this is an estimate from Ampere. It's why the numbers don't match the official numbers.

I think the main issue with the theory that the 1% is Bethesda is that this doesn't include pc sales. I don't think we have a good idea of the pc/console split for Bethesda.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Please, Forza 5 alone probably outsold those 2 games combined, let alone physchonauts 2, flight simulator and halo infinite. Your dillusional.

Plus every catalog pc game ms has including all of Bethesda titles? It's not even close.

I love that you don’t have numbers. And respond with “probably “ outsold. And Sony just started putting games on pc. Bethesda has had their games on pc for years.

If you think games don’t continue to sell over time you really are reaching.
 
Just a bit of context that this is an estimate from Ampere. It's why the numbers don't match the official numbers.

I think the main issue with the theory that the 1% is Bethesda is that this doesn't include pc sales. I don't think we have a good idea of the pc/console split for Bethesda.
Yeah, there is also a theoretical possibility that Bethesda's contribution was, say, 5%, and the rest of the XGS decreased by 4%, so the next increase was 1%. (Although I don't believe that XGS revenue decreased during that period; it must have increased).

But then that belief also makes it weirder. Because in that case, the numbers should be up way more than just 1%. (XGS revenue increased + Bethesda's inclusion should be around 5-9%).

Assuming all the above assumptions are true, then that only leaves the possibility that most of the revenue increased on the PC side (which is why we are not seeing it here). If true, that makes for even more interesting conversations, i.e., how do MS sees Xbox consoles moving forward if it sees the majority of its revenue increase outside of its console and on other platforms.
 

kingfey

Banned
Show me Microsoft bought software on pc? Show me the numbers? Not numbers of how many players. Actually sales?

I’ll wait……..
They literally released psychonauts 2, halo infinite, age of empire 4, forza horizon 5, deathloop on steam. These are day1 games.
 

kingfey

Banned
Yeah, there is also a theoretical possibility that Bethesda's contribution was, say, 5%, and the rest of the XGS decreased by 4%, so the next increase was 1%. (Although I don't believe that XGS revenue decreased during that period; it must have increased).

But then that belief also makes it weirder. Because in that case, the numbers should be up way more than just 1%. (XGS revenue increased + Bethesda's inclusion should be around 5-9%).

Assuming all the above assumptions are true, then that only leaves the possibility that most of the revenue increased on the PC side (which is why we are not seeing it here). If true, that makes for even more interesting conversations, i.e., how do MS sees Xbox consoles moving forward if it sees the majority of its revenue increase outside of its console and on other platforms.
The data for 2020 was anomaly for gaming. MS had no notable gaming presences in that year, aside of flight sim on pc. Yet they made $15b, without any of their big hits on xbox. While 2021 just saw 1% of that number, considering the games they dropped at the end half of that year.
 
The data for 2020 was anomaly for gaming. MS had no notable gaming presences in that year, aside of flight sim on pc. Yet they made $15b, without any of their big hits on xbox. While 2021 just saw 1% of that number, considering the games they dropped at the end half of that year.
I didn't understand your argument. Are you saying this data is incorrect and that Xbox's revenue should be higher than 1%?
 

kingfey

Banned
He was asking for # of copies sold on PC. Because the other was arguing that MS games outsold Sony games on PC. And while that may be true, there is no data to back up that claim as of now at least.
Forza horizon4 and sea of thieves have been dominating steam weekly sales for a while. That is the only notable evidence we have currently. I could see God of war having legs like that though during steam sales.
 

kingfey

Banned
I didn't understand your argument. Are you saying this data is incorrect and that Xbox's revenue should be higher than 1%?
No. Its just that 2020 had lockdown affecting gaming, which gave us the wrong data for xbox. It made a successful 2021 year for xbox look like a weak year. Hence why the 1% increase despite owning Bethesda now.
2020 xbox drop vs 2021 xbox drop is day and night.
 
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Forza horizon4 and sea of thieves have been dominating steam weekly sales for a while. That is the only notable evidence we have currently. I could see God of war having legs like that though during steam sales.
According to SteamSpy database numbers, God of War has already surpassed Forza Horizon 5's sales, despite releasing a few months after it and, most likely, Forza Horizon 4's as well by now.



Horizon and Days Gone also reportedly sold as many copies, and that was months ago.


So it's more nuanced than that. There is a very real possibility that PlayStation games (DG, HZD, GOW,) actually sold more on PC than some of these Microsoft games.
 
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kingfey

Banned
According to SteamSpy database numbers, God of War has already surpassed Forza Horizon 5's sales, despite releasing a few months after it and, most likely, Forza Horizon 4's as well by now.



Horizon and Days Gone also reportedly sold as many copies, and that was months ago.


So it's more nuanced than that. There is a very real possibility that PlayStation games (DG, HZD, GOW,) actually sold more on PC than some of these Microsoft games.
title by title, that is possible. God of war is not a racing game, it makes sense that it will outsell forza horizon 5 easily, plus it was 10$ cheaper too. but will need sometime to outsell forza horizon 4.
But total wise games, Xbox games wins by numbers, as they have alot of games compared to Sony.
 

Swift_Star

Member
title by title, that is possible. God of war is not a racing game, it makes sense that it will outsell forza horizon 5 easily, plus it was 10$ cheaper too. but will need sometime to outsell forza horizon 4.
But total wise games, Xbox games wins by numbers, as they have alot of games compared to Sony.
And all their games combined doesn't make more revenue than Sony's. Facts.
 

kingfey

Banned
And all their games combined doesn't make more revenue than Sony's. Facts.
I mean a restaurant with 50 customers would not bring the same money as a restaurant with 116 customers. Everyone knows that. I dont get your points here.
 
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Swift_Star

Member
I mean a restaurant with 50 customers would not bring the same money as a restaurant with 116 customers. Everyone knows that. I dont get your points here.
My point is: despite MS having more games, like you're saying, Sony makes more money.
 

kingfey

Banned
My point is: despite MS having more games, like you're saying, Sony makes more money.
Again, Sony has more users on console sphere. Each these users can buy double of MS users. No matter how much games they drop, Sony will bring more money, because of those users.
Ps4 and xbox one would need to be dropped, to have an actual comparisons. As long as these 2 systems exist, Sony will have an advantages. Especially with MTX section. That revenue brings alot of money for Sony.
 

Ozriel

Member
Half this forum was shrieking about Microsoft trying to monopolize console gaming. Sony completely dominates this space.

The Activision deal will fly through the FTC
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Half this forum was shrieking about Microsoft trying to monopolize console gaming. Sony completely dominates this space.

The Activision deal will fly through the FTC

I mean they did comment about COD where I think the main concern is. The FTC isn't only going to look at MarketShare to be fair.
 
So this doesn't include sales in the PC space? I wonder what sort of impact owning Activision will have on the numbers, proves there is no reason for the purchase not be approved.
Yes, if you think about it that will only help the industry to concentrate like this! sony will have CoD for a little while longer, if they want to they can always build a competing game in the mean time 🤣.

If anything Sony should be forced to split some of their studios!
 

FrankWza

Member
Perhaps the FTC should take a closer look at this Bungie deal. 😏😏
Half this forum was shrieking about Microsoft trying to monopolize console gaming. Sony completely dominates this space.

The Activision deal will fly through the FTC
Domination and monopolization are not the same thing. Plus, Sonys position here is more categorized as a majority relative to their customer spending.
 
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Lognor

Banned
That doesn’t even makes sense lol

If it ends behind PS4 is because it has less demand.
That doesn't even make sense. Demand is not a constant. PS4 had strong demand its entire lifetime. PS5 demand is strong now but there is no guarantee it will be strong in 5 years. You really don't get this?
 

Topher

Gold Member
That doesn't even make sense. Demand is not a constant. PS4 had strong demand its entire lifetime. PS5 demand is strong now but there is no guarantee it will be strong in 5 years. You really don't get this?

Isn't that what he said: "If it ends behind PS4 is because it has less demand."

Regardless the only thing keeping PS5 behind PS4 is supply. Demand for consoles across the board is extremely high. I expect if the supply issues are resolved both Xbox and PlayStation could hit record sales. "Rising tides lifts all boats"
 

kingfey

Banned
Isn't that what he said: "If it ends behind PS4 is because it has less demand."

Regardless the only thing keeping PS5 behind PS4 is supply. Demand for consoles across the board is extremely high. I expect if the supply issues are resolved both Xbox and PlayStation could hit record sales. "Rising tides lifts all boats"
The ps5 narrowly surpassed ps4 first 2 year, but the supply stopped that, which shows the insane demand.
 

Stuart360

Member
Show me Microsoft bought software on pc? Show me the numbers? Not numbers of how many players. Actually sales?

I’ll wait……..
I'm not sure if some of you are actually trying to be serious with this 'Xbox vs PS PC sales' discussion but i'm pretty sure Xbox is WELL ahaead. Sea of Thieves alone hit 5mil Steam sales in Dec, which is probably as much as Days Gone and HZD combined. In fact judging from the amount of user reviews, its probably sold as much as all 3 Sony games.

Unfortunately we dont get official sales numbers on Steam unless the actual devs come out and report them, but we do have the number of reviews metric which has always been a great way to judge a games success on Steam.
Here are the reviews for Xbox and PS games so far -

XBOX

Forza Horizon 5 - 65,429 reviews

Forza Horizon 4 - 121,507

Halo Infinite - 132,293

Age of Empires IV - 30,600

Psychonauts 2 - 6,593

Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition - 24,642

Grounded - 32,073

Sea of Thieves - 203,720

Gears Tactics - 5,375

Microsoft Flight Simulator - 34,756

State of Decay 2 - 31,211

Ori and the Blind Forest - 47,828

Ori and the Will of the Wisps - 83,546

Halo: The Master Chief Collection - 183,963

Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - 96,751

Gears 5 - 18,625

Age of Empires: Definitive Edition - 8,976

There are a ton of older games as well, but these are like the main Xbox Studios games to come to Steam the last few years.


Now Playstation -

God of War - 41,679

Days Gone - 31,806

Horizon Zero Dawn - 71,396

So er yeah, i thinks its pretty safe to assume Xbox has done leagues better than PS on PC so far, as they should of done as they have released way more games over a lot more years.
You know its alright for Playstation to be behind is some metrics, there is snothing wrong with it.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
I'm not sure if some of you are actually trying to be serious with this 'Xbox vs PS PC sales' discussion but i'm pretty sure Xbox is WELL ahaead. Sea of Thieves alone hit 5mil Steam sales in Dec, which is probably as much as Days Gone and HZD combined. In fact judging from the amount of user reviews, its probably sold as much as all 3 Sony games.

Unfortunately we dont get official sales numbers on Steam unless the actual devs come out and report them, but we do have the number of reviews metric which has always been a great way to judge a games success on Steam.
Here are the reviews for Xbox and PS games so far -

XBOX

Forza Horizon 5 - 65,429 reviews

Forza Horizon 4 - 121,507

Halo Infinite - 132,293

Age of Empires IV - 30,600

Psychonauts 2 - 6,593

Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition - 24,642

Grounded - 32,073

Sea of Thieves - 203,720

Gears Tactics - 5,375

Microsoft Flight Simulator - 34,756

State of Decay 2 - 31,211

Ori and the Blind Forest - 47,828

Ori and the Will of the Wisps - 83,546

Halo: The Master Chief Collection - 183,963

Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - 96,751

Gears 5 - 18,625

Age of Empires: Definitive Edition - 8,976

There are a ton of older games as well, but these are like the main Xbox Studios games to come to Steam the last few years.


Now Playstation -

God of War - 41,679

Days Gone - 31,806

Horizon Zero Dawn - 71,396

So er yeah, i thinks its pretty safe to assume Xbox has done leagues better than PS on PC so far, as they should of done as they have released way more games over a lot more years.
You know its alright for Playstation to be behind is some metrics, there is snothing wrong with it.

So no sales numbers?

 
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Stuart360

Member
So no sales numbers?
I said you dont get them on PC, but do you really need sales numbers to see that Xbox has done miles better (again as it should with how many games and years Xbox has been on PC. I mean do you think doe some reason Steam users review Xbox games a lot more than Playstation games or something?

If you were a PC gamer, or more a Steam user, you would know number of reviews is how we jusge a games success (actually numbr of reviews times 50 to get a rough estimate).

Also what was the smilie for?
 
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Papacheeks

Banned
I said you dont get them on PC, but do you really need sales numbers to see that Xbox has done miles better (again as it should with how many games and years Xbox has been on PC. I mean do you think doe some reason Steam users review Xbox games a lot more than Playstation games or something?

If you were a PC gamer, or more a Steam user, you would know number of reviews is how we jusge a games success (actually numbr of reviews times 50 to get a rough estimate).

Also what was the smilie for?

I have steam?

And actual sales numbers for the likes of Horizon, Days gone and god of war are able to be estimated based on downloads, preorder numbers.

Also Xbox had a increase in revenue by 1%? From 24%-25%. According to data in OP.

So no Where is Xbox or Microsoft game software doing miles better.
 
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Stuart360

Member
I have steam?

And actual sales numbers for the likes of Horizon, Days gone and god of war are able to be estimated based on downloads, preorder numbers.
As they can with Xbox games. Sea of Thieves, Forza Horizon 4, Halo Master Chief Collection, and Age of Empires 2 have been esitmated at over 5 mil alone.
Going to PC has been nothing but a huge success for Xbox. Why do you think Sony started doing it too?.

And you mau have Steam but you are obviously not a big PC user or you would know about the review metric, its been used for like 15 years,. And before Steam Spy put its indeph data behind a paywall, it showed that the review metric was a surprisingly accurate way of getting a rough estimate of a games sales on Steam.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
As they can with Xbox games. Sea of Thieves, Forza Horizon 4, Halo Master Chief Collection, and Age of Empires 2 have been esitmated at over 5 mil alone.
Going to PC has been nothing but a huge success for Xbox. Why do you think Sony started doing it too?.

And you mau have Steam but you are obviously not a big PC user or you would know about the review metric, its been used for like 15 years,. And before Steam Spy put its indeph data behind a paywall, it showed that the review metric was a surprisingly accurate way of getting a rough estimate of a games sales on Steam.

Isn't download number more accurate? Which steam has?

And this isn't just about PC. Horizon sold 20 Million By February 2022. And I assume bulk is on PS4. But someone from VGC estimated based on first month sales/preorder/steam best sellers. Horizon sold roughly 1.5-2.0 Million on PC. Days gone 1.5 Million on pc. And right now we are way over 2 Million for god of war. ANd god of war released in January.
 
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Stuart360

Member
Isn't download number more accurate? Which steam has?
Well you can use download numbers, but it doesnt take into account people who refund (and tons of people refund no matter how good a game is), if a game has a free weekend, a demo, a free to play week, game sharing, If a game corrupts and you have to redownload the game,etc. It will usually mean game downloads being way higher than actual sales. Thats why reviews are good to use because you have to actually buy the game to post a review.

None of it changes the fact that Xbox are miles ahead of Playstation in terms of PC sales, and Playstation have got off to a very good start with its 3 games so far. And it will get better the more games they release.
 
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