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In 2021 Sony accounted for 46% of all spend on console games, hardware and services

Papacheeks

Banned
Specifically it's an estimate of console revenue excluding accessories.

Xbox had a revenue growth of 17.74%, Sony was 12.57% and Nintendo actually declined a bit (0.93%)

Yeae thanks, I've been up since 4:00am EST and still at work.

So im having a hard time with my thoughts. Probably should get a coffee and get off lol.

Well you can use download numbers, but it doesnt take into account people who refund (and tons of people refund no matter how good a game is), if a game has a free weekend, a demo, a free to play week, game sharing, If a game corrupts and you have to redownload the game,etc.

None of it changes the fact that Xbox are miles ahead of Playstation in terms of PC sales, and Playstation have got off to a very good start with its 3 games so far. And it will get better the more games they release.

Yea, but heres my point is that Between PS4-PS5/PC Sony sell more internal title wise than anything Microsoft has put out currently. Their games are doing Nintendo numbers. Miles morales still charts on a monthly basis when there's stock for PS5.

So in sheer volume on software Sony sells more as a whole.
 
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Stuart360

Member
Yea, but heres my point is that Between PS4-PS5/PC Sony sell more internal title wise than anything Microsoft has put out currently. Their games are doing Nintendo numbers. Miles morales still charts on a monthly basis when there's stock for PS5.

So in sheer volume on software Sony sells more as a whole.
For sure, but we were talking about PC sales with our little discussion. You wont get even the most hardened Xbox fanboy try and say that Xbox sells more games than Sony on console.
 

Stuart360

Member
I mean Sony just started in 2020. In terms of releasing games on PC.
I know, that was partly my point and why i couldnt understand why it seemed some of you were suggesting Sony's 3 games have somehow sold more than 30+ Xbox games that have been on Steam over like 5 or 6 years.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
I know, that was partly my point and why i couldnt understand why it seemed some of you were suggesting Sony's 3 games have somehow sold more than 30+ Xbox games that have been on Steam over like 5 or 6 years.

I think we are saying in sheer interest Sony's games have all been on top most preordered for steam. I think by end of year we might have a better picture.
 

MacReady13

Member
So please, can someone explain to me why it is so important for Sony to have a Gamepass type product within their gaming eco system? It's clearly not hurting them and they are outselling the competition quite easily.
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Isn't that what he said: "If it ends behind PS4 is because it has less demand."

Regardless the only thing keeping PS5 behind PS4 is supply. Demand for consoles across the board is extremely high. I expect if the supply issues are resolved both Xbox and PlayStation could hit record sales. "Rising tides lifts all boats"
This Lagnor fellow has been trying to convince himself for sometime now that PS5 demand is not as high anymore. Hes a delusional one. Not sure whats his problem.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I dont think it would either.

But I think making your big SP games timed exclusives has pretty much no downsides. If anything staggering the windows only increases things like double dipping. A big Playstation "exclusive" coming to PC a year or 2 later is still a massive game launch, and does to SOME EXTENT still protect the allure of your console.

Plus the game coming out on PC 2 years later can have.......

- Ultra-wide support
- DLSS support
- Full 4K\60fps
- All the gaming updates that came out for the PS5.
- All the DLC that had already came out on the PS5.

There's literally ZERO downside for Sony to release a premier PS5 game 1-3 years later on PC.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Plus the game coming out on PC 2 years later can have.......

- Ultra-wide support
- DLSS support
- Full 4K\60fps
- All the gaming updates that came out for the PS5.
- All the DLC that had already came out on the PS5.

There's literally ZERO downside for Sony to release a premier PS5 game 1-3 years later on PC.
Yeah and in the mean time they can still do the "Focus on one platform" thing for the PS5 release and post-launch support.

They appear to be also making it so specific support studios do the PC porting anyways.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yeah and in the mean time they can still do the "Focus on one platform" thing for the PS5 release and post-launch support.

They appear to be also making it so specific support studios do the PC porting anyways.

Exactly! For the life of me, I'm not sure why any Playstation gamer would want things any differently. I'm starting to feel like the only people that want 1st party PS games day one on PC are people without Playstations.
 
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Papacheeks

Banned
Exactly! For the life of me, I'm not sure why any Playstation gamer would want things any differently. I'm starting to feel like the only people that want 1st party PS games day one on PC are people without Playstations.

Yup. Or people who don’t care about owning games. Which I do understand in terms of how we consume content specifically entertainment.

If you spend a lot of money on games and have got burned I understand the allure of a service like game pass. On top of different countries having prices to the extreme for gaming hardware and games. So a service that’s just a monthly fee looks way more attractive. But to me it’s only worth it if your continually playing games constantly on service.

I don’t have the time like I use to. So I’m a 1 or 2 game at a time kind of guy.

So game pass doesn’t appeal to me.
 

IFireflyl

Member
Exactly! For the life of me, I'm not sure why any Playstation gamer would want things any differently. I'm starting to feel like the only people that want 1st party PS games day one on PC are people without Playstations.

Or they're people that own a PlayStation but would rather only own a PC... but they can't because of the exclusives. That's actually the camp I am in. This is the primary reason I like Microsoft more than Sony right now.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Or they're people that own a PlayStation but would rather only own a PC... but they can't because of the exclusives. That's actually the camp I am in. This is the primary reason I like Microsoft more than Sony right now.

So you are the same way about Nintendo then right? What are you trying to say?

That you hate Sony invests like every other product company and uses things like software they themselves cultivate from their own investments to sell said made products?

I also have a pc? Radeon vII x1600 cpu? But love console gaming as well.
 
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IFireflyl

Member
So you are the same way about Nintendo then right? What are you trying to say?

That you hate Sony invests like every other product company and uses things like software they themselves cultivate from their own investments to sell said made products?

I feel like you took my reply as an attack.

The original poster I quoted said, "I'm starting to feel like the only people that want 1st party PS games day one on PC are people without Playstations."

You replied, "Yep."

I responded to you both and said it's not just people without PlayStations who want first party PlayStation games on PC. And yes, I also feel that way about Nintendo. I wish all console games would also be released on PC so that I don't have to buy the consoles for the exclusives. I don't think that makes me a bad person. *shrug*
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Or they're people that own a PlayStation but would rather only own a PC... but they can't because of the exclusives. That's actually the camp I am in. This is the primary reason I like Microsoft more than Sony right now.
Why not just get both? Best of both worlds and the PC can be used for work/general productivity.
 

Handel

Member
This is largely based in paid online and MTX, things many decry until it's time to praise Sony for milking their consumers for every last cent.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Doesn't the fact that between Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft's officially given revenue figures for their gaming departments, Sony's revenue not accounting for 46% of it mean this is incorrect? It's not even including Tencent, EA, Activision, Take Two, etc.

Official gaming revenue for 2021

Sony : $24.87 billion
Microsoft: $16.28 billion
Nintendo: $15.3 billion

Total: $56.45 billion

Sony's share = $24.87 billion / $56.45 billion = 44%

That right there is less than the topics 46%, and we haven't even added the other tens of billions of dollars of gaming revenue to the $56.45 billion total revenue.

Activision/Blizzard 2021 gaming revenue: $8.8 billion

EA 2021 gaming revenue: $5.6 billion

Take Two 2021 gaming revenue: $3.37 billion

So lets just add those 3 alone in - an extra $17.77 billion gives us total 2021 gaming revenue of $74.22 billion.

So Sony's share now becomes $24.87 billion / $74.22 billion...........

Sony's share = 33.5% of the total gaming revenue counted (but not actual total gaming industry revenue since multiple publishers are missing like Epic/Tencent/Ubisoft/etc).


This just seems to be a super cherry picked bunch of numbers that aren't anywhere close to being correct. Super weird for a research/analysis company to present these numbers given how easily verifiably incorrect they are.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Gold Member
So please, can someone explain to me why it is so important for Sony to have a Gamepass type product within their gaming eco system? It's clearly not hurting them and they are outselling the competition quite easily.

Tides turn at an imperceptible level.

GamePass was never intended to flip the tables overnight.
 

AllBizness

I cry about Microsoft. A lot.
As expected but unless Sony has done something drastic, it won't look like this by the end of 2024. MS will have completely closed the gap or taken the lead thanks to the Bethesda and Activision purchases.
We'll see, I wouldn't celebrate just yet
 
Doesn't the fact that between Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft's officially given revenue figures for their gaming departments, Sony's revenue not accounting for 46% of it mean this is incorrect? It's not even including Tencent, EA, Activision, Take Two, etc.

Official gaming revenue for 2021

Sony : $24.87 billion
Microsoft: $16.28 billion
Nintendo: $15.3 billion

Total: $56.45 billion

Sony's share = $24.87 billion / $56.45 billion = 44%

That right there is less than the topics 46%, and we haven't even added the other tens of billions of dollars of gaming revenue to the $56.45 billion total revenue.

Activision/Blizzard 2021 gaming revenue: $8.8 billion

EA 2021 gaming revenue: $5.6 billion

Take Two 2021 gaming revenue: $3.37 billion

So lets just add those 3 alone in - an extra $17.77 billion gives us total 2021 gaming revenue of $74.22 billion.

So Sony's share now becomes $24.87 billion / $74.22 billion...........

Sony's share = 33.5% of the total gaming revenue counted (but not actual total gaming industry revenue since multiple publishers are missing like Epic/Tencent/Ubisoft/etc).


This just seems to be a super cherry picked bunch of numbers that aren't anywhere close to being correct. Super weird for a research/analysis company to present these numbers given how easily verifiably incorrect they are.

It's for the console market. This doesn't include PC or Mobile.

Also this is looking at the 2021 calander year. Not the financial years for the companies which are all different
 
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Yeah Sony shits on everyone, who cares.

the actual issue….. Idk if I should make a thread about this… but WTF is Sony doing?

Why are they releasing all these games so close to each other. Im going to have to skip most of them. I dont make backlogs. They probably have a packed year from all the pandemic delays.
 

Zeroing

Banned
Yeah Sony shits on everyone, who cares.

the actual issue….. Idk if I should make a thread about this… but WTF is Sony doing?

Why are they releasing all these games so close to each other. Im going to have to skip most of them. I dont make backlogs. They probably have a packed year from all the pandemic delays.
It sends an idea that PS can release exclusive after exclusive thus making PS5 even more wanted - because it makes it clear more exclusives are going to be released and that Playstation is the console that is more future proof ( in terms of software )
Also the pandemic did alter some launch dates.
 
So please, can someone explain to me why it is so important for Sony to have a Gamepass type product within their gaming eco system? It's clearly not hurting them and they are outselling the competition quite easily.
Well, it's not about now. With a business you need to find a way to continue your success. If you wait for your competition to eat your marketshare piece by piece (which can happen, and even if it doesn't it's a good practice to stay ahead of such cases), in a few years you'll be in trouble.

Having a gamepass type product will guarantee that they will still continue on top and competing.
 

reksveks

Member
this is looking at the 2021 calander year. Not the financial years for the companies which are all different
It is not for this reason, you can always shift the company's results to get calendar year results.

Doesn't the fact that between Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft's officially given revenue figures for their gaming departments, Sony's revenue not accounting for 46% of it mean this is incorrect? It's not even including Tencent, EA, Activision, Take Two, etc
These results don't match largely for the following two reasons:
- official number include pc and hardware accessories which this analysis doesnt
- this number includes the full physical revenue whereas the official numbers would only include the royalty that Sony gets from physical game sales
 
Doesn't the fact that between Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft's officially given revenue figures for their gaming departments, Sony's revenue not accounting for 46% of it mean this is incorrect? It's not even including Tencent, EA, Activision, Take Two, etc.

Official gaming revenue for 2021

Sony : $24.87 billion
Microsoft: $16.28 billion
Nintendo: $15.3 billion

Total: $56.45 billion

Sony's share = $24.87 billion / $56.45 billion = 44%

That right there is less than the topics 46%, and we haven't even added the other tens of billions of dollars of gaming revenue to the $56.45 billion total revenue.

Activision/Blizzard 2021 gaming revenue: $8.8 billion

EA 2021 gaming revenue: $5.6 billion

Take Two 2021 gaming revenue: $3.37 billion

So lets just add those 3 alone in - an extra $17.77 billion gives us total 2021 gaming revenue of $74.22 billion.

So Sony's share now becomes $24.87 billion / $74.22 billion...........

Sony's share = 33.5% of the total gaming revenue counted (but not actual total gaming industry revenue since multiple publishers are missing like Epic/Tencent/Ubisoft/etc).


This just seems to be a super cherry picked bunch of numbers that aren't anywhere close to being correct. Super weird for a research/analysis company to present these numbers given how easily verifiably incorrect they are.
EA, AB and T2 also don't sell console hardware. Console sales can be up to 25% of total Playstation revenue at times.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Now include PC and mobile and see what happens to that number 😏
Calculate Season 6 GIF by The Simpsons


If you take the console market spend and you then factor in the console portion of PC and mobile, which is (let me check my data) $0/£0/¥0/0€, you get the same number as before and the thread does not change.
 
Why are they releasing all these games so close to each other. Im going to have to skip most of them. I dont make backlogs. They probably have a packed year from all the pandemic delays.
If I were Sony, I also wouldn't worry about the overlap between the Horizon and GT7 player base. I would worry about Elden Ring though.
 

yurinka

Member
Consoles sales and revenue.

Sony’s gaming division makes more money than both MS and Nintendo.

And apparently you don’t realize what thread you’re in.
In addition to sell more consoles (not now temporally due to chips shortages) and generate more revenue, Sony also has more game subs, has a bigger active userbase (MAU) sells more games+addons (or well their software generates more revenue) for their consoles, and also if we only count the 3rd party revenue of that software, 3rd parties make more revenue en PS than in the other consoles.

Sony got impacted by the chips shortage but yes, they are market leaders and are growing in most of these areas even if traditionally in some of them generation transitional years some of them (like profit) go temporally down but they compensated that with other things. They're in a very strong position.

How long do you think they will support that console?
In the 'we believe in generations' interview Jimbo said they were going to keep supporting it for several years because they had around 90M active users there and even if with PS5 selling at gaming history records a huge portion of this userbase would need several years to migrate to the next gen. Soon after that interview said in other one that they would support it for at least 3 years after the PS5 release.

A few months ago a Sony representative debunked a Bloomberg article saying that they never considered to discontinue the PS4 production last year and that they won't do it this year either.

We have to consider that active PS4s not only generate revenue from game/addon sales, but also from subs, mostly Plus. Game subs give Sony almost a billion per quarter, they have around 50M Plus subs and under 20M PS5s in the market, so a majority of that revenue comes from PS4.

Sony also traditionally supported their home consoles during 10+ years, so I'd bet they'll support it until at least late 2023 or early 2024. I think chips shortages and covid -which affected the production of both PS4 and PS5- may have a role on that since they may decide to kill it sooner to focus their production on PS5 (more than they already did until now) or instead maybe to support it for longer to serve, once they solve the shortages, the pending PS4 demand they couldn't address in the past.
 
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In addition to sell more consoles (not now temporally due to chips shortages) and generate more revenue, Sony also has more game subs, has a bigger active userbase (MAU) sells more games+addons (or well their software generates more revenue) for their consoles, and also if we only count the 3rd party revenue of that software, 3rd parties make more revenue en PS than in the other consoles.

Yes, Sony is the consoles market leader.
Imagine if Sony sold more consoles but all the other things you mentioned weren't true. Would be very weird. So saying that a company that sells more consoles also sells more games is kinda redundant and reminds me of list warring.
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Yeah Sony shits on everyone, who cares.

the actual issue….. Idk if I should make a thread about this… but WTF is Sony doing?

Why are they releasing all these games so close to each other. Im going to have to skip most of them. I dont make backlogs. They probably have a packed year from all the pandemic delays.

PS5 is sold out, always, there’s no point in staggered releases. The games will just keep on selling as more people come in, game releases have no impact on hardware sales ATM.
 

yurinka

Member
Imagine if Sony sold more consoles but all the other things you mentioned weren't true. Would be very weird. So saying that a company that sells more consoles also sells more games is kinda redundant and reminds me of list warring.
No, the other points I highlighted are also important because to know if they are market leaders or not, there are more things like the consoles sold. And are also important to highlight that PS4 is still playing an important role in curent Sony's success, so the narrative that some are using of not counting PS4 to decide if Sony is market leader.

I mean, right now PS4 hardware sales are specially low, but if we look at MAU or Plus subscriptions we see many players are still there. Same goes with the total revenue of the division, or the revenue from game sales (total and 3rd). Typically transitional years mean to go down in terms of sales/revenue/profit but instead they kept growing thanks to being strong in the points I mentioned (Plus subs, retaining a huge PS4 MAU, games still selling for PS4, etc).

So please, can someone explain to me why it is so important for Sony to have a Gamepass type product within their gaming eco system? It's clearly not hurting them and they are outselling the competition quite easily.
Basically for three reasons:
  • They have ~50M (and growing in a steady pace) Plus subs. Giving these subs the option of paying a couple of bucks more per month for hundreds of games will help them grow and retain them even more and highly increase their revenue from subs, which now is almost $1B per quarter.
  • With Spartacus they complete their PS Now long term vision announced in 2014 (when they announced PS Now) of having a huge cloud gaming library with games of all their platforms available on PS, PC, phones, tablets and smart tvs.
  • Their direct competition is focused on this kind of subscription, and their fans and some analysts say it's the future. So even if game subs is a small part of their business, it's good to have a pretty similar equivalent to their competition, but with the double of game subs and using -unlike their competition- a profitable business model. They make clear that they are market leaders in all console areas including this one.
But no, they won't put there all their games day one because they prefer to have a profitable business with their gaming division, having billions of profit each year instead of hundreds of millions or billions of loses. From time to time they will include some indies or AA games day one, and they may include sooner and may include more 1st party games, but will continue focusing on game sales than in subs.
 
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Papacheeks

Banned
I feel like you took my reply as an attack.

The original poster I quoted said, "I'm starting to feel like the only people that want 1st party PS games day one on PC are people without Playstations."

You replied, "Yep."

I responded to you both and said it's not just people without PlayStations who want first party PlayStation games on PC. And yes, I also feel that way about Nintendo. I wish all console games would also be released on PC so that I don't have to buy the consoles for the exclusives. I don't think that makes me a bad person. *shrug*

It doesnt it just makes you Ignorant to how competition and products work. Specifically when talking about entertainment software. Exclusives have been around since beginning of gaming or any other product. If that were the case everyone would use the same phone, everyone would have the same car.

Exclusives are a selling point. And you build your system around what your developers want. PC is super behind in getting games that instantly load. No game on PC does what PS5 does currently. And even with Direct storage I don't think you will still have 1-2 second instant loads like you get with some of Sony's first party titles.
And that comes down to custom chips Sony built just for I/O.
So their software reflects those choices in hardware from developers. I have yet seen a lot of playstation devs literally moving over to some kind of PC centric software development. Consoles are here to stay.

You dont like how the business works dont support it. Just stay on PC.
I'm too old in terms of gaming. I grew up with a old Microsoft 95 running Wolfenstein, oregon trail on a early IBM that didnt even have a color CRT.

This sentiment I see of people wishing all games were available on PC, just is a weird take from people disconnected from how products work. And if thats not the case than I think its just Port begging.
 
Yeah Sony shits on everyone, who cares.

the actual issue….. Idk if I should make a thread about this… but WTF is Sony doing?

Why are they releasing all these games so close to each other. Im going to have to skip most of them. I dont make backlogs. They probably have a packed year from all the pandemic delays.

Why, you only buy games if they're less than a month old or something? Bizarre thing to say. Get them in a couple months for 30% less.

The release schedule is stacked as H"FW was meant for 2022. GT7 has a different audience mostly to Elden Ring and Horizon so will sell to racing fans for years to come on PS5.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Why would someone want to pay more money for both a console and a PC?
Erm so you have access to all games day one.

And like I said, a PC is used for more than just gaming. Unless you're one of those people who uses an iPad as a laptop lol.
 

IFireflyl

Member
It doesnt it just makes you Ignorant to how competition and products work. Specifically when talking about entertainment software. Exclusives have been around since beginning of gaming or any other product. If that were the case everyone would use the same phone, everyone would have the same car.

Exclusives are a selling point. And you build your system around what your developers want. PC is super behind in getting games that instantly load. No game on PC does what PS5 does currently. And even with Direct storage I don't think you will still have 1-2 second instant loads like you get with some of Sony's first party titles.
And that comes down to custom chips Sony built just for I/O.
So their software reflects those choices in hardware from developers. I have yet seen a lot of playstation devs literally moving over to some kind of PC centric software development. Consoles are here to stay.

You dont like how the business works dont support it. Just stay on PC.
I'm too old in terms of gaming. I grew up with a old Microsoft 95 running Wolfenstein, oregon trail on a early IBM that didnt even have a color CRT.

This sentiment I see of people wishing all games were available on PC, just is a weird take from people disconnected from how products work. And if thats not the case than I think its just Port begging.

I apologize. I thought we were having a rational and civil conversation. I didn't realize I was talking to an idiot. Carry on.

Erm so you have access to all games day one.

And like I said, a PC is used for more than just gaming. Unless you're one of those people who uses an iPad as a laptop lol.

This doesn't counter anything I said.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
I apologize. I thought we were having a rational and civil conversation. I didn't realize I was talking to an idiot. Carry on.



This doesn't counter anything I said.
Lol OK buddy. Two different machines that have some overlapping functions, and some very different ones. If you're broke just say so 😁
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I feel like you took my reply as an attack.

The original poster I quoted said, "I'm starting to feel like the only people that want 1st party PS games day one on PC are people without Playstations."

You replied, "Yep."

I responded to you both and said it's not just people without PlayStations who want first party PlayStation games on PC. And yes, I also feel that way about Nintendo. I wish all console games would also be released on PC so that I don't have to buy the consoles for the exclusives. I don't think that makes me a bad person. *shrug*

This doesn't make you a bad person at all. It just makes you a consumer that PlayStation shouldn't prioritize. You're the perfect example of why Sony shouldn't make all of their 1st party games day one releases on PC (unless it's a huge multiplayer game). You placed a higher priority on your PC, than the PS console that's in your home. Your PS console comes 2nd or 3rd as your priority and that's fine. You can get the awesome PS games 1, 2, or 3 years later than us.
 

IFireflyl

Member
This doesn't make you a bad person at all. It just makes you a consumer that PlayStation shouldn't prioritize. You're the perfect example of why Sony shouldn't make all of their 1st party games day one releases on PC (unless it's a huge multiplayer game). You placed a higher priority on your PC, than the PS console that's in your home. Your PS console comes 2nd or 3rd as your priority and that's fine. You can get the awesome PS games 1, 2, or 3 years later than us.

While I see your perspective, I disagree with it somewhat. Obviously Sony should focus on making their first-party games awesome for their console, but I don't see why the release has to be an either/or scenario. Why can't they release their first-party titles on PC and PS5 at the same time? Microsoft does that and they don't seem to be taking a financial hit. PC owners don't have to buy a console to play first-party Xbox games and that is awesome. I don't want to spend money if I don't have to. Sony could do this as well. It's not like PC gaming is so prevalent that Sony is going to start losing millions of console sales due to releasing first-party titles on PC on day one. Consoles are cheaper than PCs, and because of that console gaming is always going to thrive.
 

IFireflyl

Member
Lol OK buddy. Two different machines that have some overlapping functions, and some very different ones. If you're broke just say so 😁

Really? Your entire argument is that I have to be broke in order to take the stance that I have?







I have a Halo Infinite Xbox Series X, a PlayStation 5, a Nintendo Switch, a Desktop PC with an RTX 3090, 64GB of RAM, and three 4TB SSDs in it, a PlayStation Vita, and a NAS with 100 TB of IronWolf Pro HDDs. Care to try again?
 
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