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In retrospective, what do you think of the sexualisation in video games back then?

BbMajor7th

Member
Sounds like that poster is from Retardera

It's fine if it's the Female Gaze but not fine if it's the Male Gaze

So many double standards against men and it's funny reading those comments

Hamster is gonna hamster
I can't be doing with Resetera and I have no problem with male gaze, just consistency. I believe in equality, which is to say, I believe that both sexes should come in for the same. People on Resetera bitch endlessly about how women are portrayed negatively whilst ogling male characters, posters here go the opposite way, ogling female characters and dismissing every non-beauty standard presentation as being woke and agenda-driven whilst male characters can be any shape or size and nobody really cares. I'm saying it's fine to have realistic male and female characters, it's fine to ogle both to your heart's content - sex is natural, not some bizarre perversion. Hold both to the same standards: Resetera needs to stop complaining about all the tiddies in Dead or Alive (and shaming people who like them) and some posters over here need to stop going on a tirade over whether or not Aloy gained a few pounds between the first and second game.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
When women are left to their own devices they sexualize themselves. Tick tock/insta/snapchat etc.. I dont understand why modern males want to apologise for being attracted to women. Women are glorious. Games should represent them in all their glory.
This, I'd say it's worse today then it was year's ago.
And like you said, if you leave them to their own devices they sexualize themselves.
It's been proven time and time again even back in the 2000's & 90's, male producers was accused of controlling Female artist with Britney, Christina, Mariah, but that control was keeping them innocent looking and as soon they become big enough to have freedom to do what they want they're doing sexual acts on stage and in their videos and dressing like a pornstars.
Not saying male producers didn't sexualised artists, but the worst ones was done by the female artist themselves because that is their true selves.
It is very rare you find a hot female that doesn't flaunt it.
 
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DrMano

Neo Member
Most female characters twenty years were molded to fit an agenda, it just wasn't one you minded - that's why you'd have warrior women running around in steel bikinis, or elite professionals in their fields being played by peppy college-age girls, or women in very extreme conditions running around in full face make-up. Modern portrayals, with more ordinary-looking women, who aren't wearing full make-up or jiggling their way across an alien hellscape in a tub top and denim hot pants fit their settings ways better.
Your misandry is showing. You pretend that only females had idealized versions in games while men were depicted as ugly/ordinary. Up till a certain point ALL character models were sexualized versions of themselves. Just because men don't cry about it doesn't mean it wasn't there,, or it isn't STILL there.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
Your misandry is showing. You pretend that only females had idealized versions in games while men were depicted as ugly/ordinary. Up till a certain point ALL character models were sexualized versions of themselves. Just because men don't cry about it doesn't mean it wasn't there,, or it isn't STILL there.
I mean, I am a dude and I really don't have a problem with sexualised female characters. To pretend that there wasn't non-artistic intent behind those design decisions is just not being honest or serious. I'm not here to hate it, but I won't deny it's a reality. Again, if you think male characters in video games were being presented in any way similar to the way that female characters were back then, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Most male characters were shaped towards male ideals of masculinity, that's for sure: surly, gruff, square-jawed and stoic, but they certainly weren't being shaped towards what women find attractive (and, no, six-pack abs and 'roided biceps are not female gaze - they're what men think women find hot).
Your misandry is showing.
Also, calling people you disagree with bigots is what Resetera is for. GAF is chill and better for it.
 
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I'm happy to please you that good looking video game characters still exist.

maxresdefault.jpg
 

OCASM

Banned
Our SexDrive and Our Death Drive are Neighbors in our Base Psych.
There a natural pair.

Just ask any girl what she wants to do right after a near death exsperience.
Chazz, is that you?



I never said it was, the original poster simply said that he wanted all of his characters - male and female - to look hot, that it's not about objectifying women, it's about games with good-looking characters.
Objectification is just an idiotic male-hating lesbo-feminst term used to demonize heterosexuality.

Most female characters twenty years were molded to fit an agenda, it just wasn't one you minded - that's why you'd have warrior women running around in steel bikinis, or elite professionals in their fields being played by peppy college-age girls, or women in very extreme conditions running around in full face make-up. Modern portrayals, with more ordinary-looking women, who aren't wearing full make-up or jiggling their way across an alien hellscape in a tub top and denim hot pants fit their settings ways better.
The agenda back then: promoting and celebrating beauty. The agenda right now: hating beauty and promoting ugliness.
 

ResurrectedContrarian

Suffers with mild autism
The agenda back then: promoting and celebrating beauty. The agenda right now: hating beauty and promoting ugliness.
This is essentially it, at least for Western games.

They find profound ugliness to be a mark of the triumph of the inner agency over all stereotypes and expectations, and they see any beauty that adheres to external expectations (gendered, in particular) as a diminution of the person. Unless, of course, they are beautiful by the standards of the opposite gender, then suddenly the same stereotypical dresses or clothes--even exaggerated to pure parody--are seen as empowering. Like that absolute trash Dylan Mulvaney, such a joke of man but idiots promote him like a cult.

This is an insane and perverse inversion of value, but it's everywhere now. And it creates a world of profound ugliness, and bitter useless people who hate beauty.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
The agenda back then: promoting and celebrating beauty. The agenda right now: hating beauty and promoting ugliness.
Not that I agree, but I'm okay with game devs not doing the same thing over and over. I get bored. I got bored of squared-jawed marines in the PS360 era too. Change is good.
This is an insane and perverse inversion of value, but it's everywhere now. And it creates a world of profound ugliness, and bitter useless people who hate beauty.
Nah, the only bitterness is from people whose understanding and appreciation of beauty are so narrow. Beauty isn't a fixed paradigm, it's changed and moved immensely across time and culture and it will continue to do so - heck even my buddies and I rarely agree on who the hottest girl in the room is. There's nothing perverse about looking at things from different perspectives and finding that beauty has more than one definition.
 
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OCASM

Banned
Not that I agree, but I'm okay with game devs not doing the same thing over and over. I get bored. I got bored of squared-jawed marines in the PS360 era too. Change is good.
Not always. In this case changes are for the worse.

Nah, the only bitterness is from people whose understanding and appreciation of beauty are so narrow. Beauty isn't a fixed paradigm, it's changed and moved immensely across time and culture and it will continue to do so - heck even my buddies and I rarely agree on who the hottest girl in the room is. There's nothing perverse about looking at things from different perspectives and finding that beauty has more than one definition.
Nah, beauty recognition is genetically encoded. Even congenitally blind men prefer women with an hourglass figure. And besides, lets not be disingenuous, this changes came about not by people trying different things but by imposition from people who hate beauty.
 
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Merkades

Member
I am ok with it. Admittedly not everything would be good to play with others around, I mean I have played 5ish eroges, fine on their own, sorta, not a fan of rapey stuff, but mostly fine, just not something I want to play with others around.

I think people should make what they want to make and play what they want to play. I will pass on Celeste and Goodbye Volcano High, and others can pass on Fate stay/night or Evenicle (or GoW and DoA if you want something less explicit).
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
One thing I notice with western games is they mostly like to model their character old and beat up for sake of realism.
6005030001628852893.jpg

tlou_06.jpg



Meanwhile in Japanese games even the character dont have sexy design they still make their characters good looking
D3TNfRoWAAAvG-e.jpg

jpVpdGYWrHegJMzHu73sXj.jpg



Western developers care more about realism and Japanese developers care more about style. There is no "wrong" way but for my taste always liked how Japanese devs model their characters.
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
I mean, I am a dude and I really don't have a problem with sexualised female characters. To pretend that there wasn't non-artistic intent behind those design decisions is just not being honest or serious. I'm not here to hate it, but I won't deny it's a reality. Again, if you think male characters in video games were being presented in any way similar to the way that female characters were back then, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Most male characters were shaped towards male ideals of masculinity, that's for sure: surly, gruff, square-jawed and stoic, but they certainly weren't being shaped towards what women find attractive (and, no, six-pack abs and 'roided biceps are not female gaze - they're what men think women find hot).

Also, calling people you disagree with bigots is what Resetera is for. GAF is chill and better for it.

Oh fuck off with your gaslighting, mate.
 

ResurrectedContrarian

Suffers with mild autism
Nah, the only bitterness is from people whose understanding and appreciation of beauty are so narrow. Beauty isn't a fixed paradigm, it's changed and moved immensely across time and culture and it will continue to do so - heck even my buddies and I rarely agree on who the hottest girl in the room is. There's nothing perverse about looking at things from different perspectives and finding that beauty has more than one definition.
But this really isn't what's going on.

We're not facing something as benign as different interpretations of beauty, like the long necks of African women in certain tribes, or other typical multicultural examples. In those cases, the local definition of beauty still has a firm, positive basis in the expectations of that gender, role, age group, etc within their culture. The various adornments still fit within a paradigm of promoting a harmonious integration into your distinct given (sexed, etc) body and role.

Today, we're seeing something completely different, and driven entirely by a negative inversion. Plastering perverse men--like Dylan Mulvaney in his poorly expressed comic drag--all over different products and spaces has nothing to do with any positive harmonization between the person, their body, and their position within the broader social order. Instead, what is being directly and openly fetishized is the inversion itself--the more extreme the better. Turning a man into a cartoon drag parody is desired as empowering on some other level, as a destruction of order and traditional beauty.

We don't have to put up with that. It's a kind of terrorism against the human soul and against beauty itself. And it should be recognized as such; there are no compromises where you allow this kind of thing to enter your schools, culture, etc without always openly calling it for what it is and refusing to play along.
 

Catphish

Member
As a general rule, I don't like sex in games, tv, and movies (and advertising!). Not because I'm morally opposed to it, but because I don't like the idea that some marketing cunt thinks the only way to appeal to me is through my gonads.

I prefer products that can stand on the merit of their quality. Titillation is often low fruit to mask the lack of anything better.

That said, Taki... 🍆
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
As a general rule, I don't like sex in games, tv, and movies (and advertising!). Not because I'm morally opposed to it, but because I don't like the idea that some marketing cunt thinks the only way to appeal to me is through my gonads.

I prefer products that can stand on the merit of their quality. Titillation is often low fruit to mask the lack of anything better.

That said, Taki... 🍆

I am of the same mind, but there is a clear and present trend in western games to promote a particular agenda - make men big, ugly, dumb and women (who tend to also be very ugly) as virtuous heroes. Take a look at many narrative focused games of the last few years: Wrath of the Righteous, Outer Worlds, TLOU2 - or even altering the content massively for japanese "localizations" from Nintendo with the likes of Fire Emblem.

Oddly enough the supposedly "sexist" country of Japan tends to have more egalitarian views in their games than the supposed "progressive" west. Men and women are treated like heroes, like villains, and are both sexualized and not sexualized. Hell, Resident Evil 4 Remake is a perfect example of how to do it *right*. Now if only most western devs could get their heads out of their ass and fire the mentally ill folks who keep pushing for regressive concepts in games.
 
I am of the same mind, but there is a clear and present trend in western games to promote a particular agenda - make men big, ugly, dumb and women (who tend to also be very ugly) as virtuous heroes. Take a look at many narrative focused games of the last few years: Wrath of the Righteous, Outer Worlds, TLOU2 - or even altering the content massively for japanese "localizations" from Nintendo with the likes of Fire Emblem.

Oddly enough the supposedly "sexist" country of Japan tends to have more egalitarian views in their games than the supposed "progressive" west. Men and women are treated like heroes, like villains, and are both sexualized and not sexualized. Hell, Resident Evil 4 Remake is a perfect example of how to do it *right*. Now if only most western devs could get their heads out of their ass and fire the mentally ill folks who keep pushing for regressive concepts in games.

What did Re4 Remake do right in regard to this?
 

Arachnid

Member
Prudes who get offended by attractive people and sexualization in games need to get out and touch grass. It always reeks of insecurity. Attractive people are everywhere, and people like looking. That wont ever change, so you may as well accept it. Hell, there are tons of characters who have fame due to being femme fatales, and their seductive or attractive nature is a huge part of their character and appeal. Taking that away in favor of making them a completely different and generic action woman wont ever not be a downgrade (Lara Croft, Jill Valentine, Ada).
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
What did Re4 Remake do right in regard to this?

Leon, Ada, Wesker, Crowzer, Ashley, Luis - all are attractive, interesting, and unique characters that immediately pop out at you without spouting some idiotic soapbox crap. They are equally sexualized on the male and female side, are strong characters that go through good character arcs, and the game also highlights personality while you play the actual game (which takes the majority of the playtime, not the narrative).

What all good action games should.
 
taki is good.
nips poppin > mondo knockers (both are good though).

i dont want overt sexualization everywhere all the time though.
it has a place.
 

Hugare

Member
Just like in movies it probably suits some stories and not others.
This

This is why despite all the shit that Abby sex scene got, I like it, because it makes sense in the context of the story. Same with most Bioware games: they have some cringe acting, but it makes sense.

Stoping to have sex with Afrodite when you are on a revenge path to avenge the death of your daughter and wife, not so much

Same with girls fighting dragons while using skirts, witch that uses her own hair as clothes, Quiet having to absorb the sun and etc.
 
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If you want sexualization in game then hit me with a whacky setting to go with it. Hot hourglass figure with on your face sex appeal clothes doesn't fit with say raiding tombs.

I am glad games are moving towards Witcher like portrays because then I wouldn't be embarrassed playing it in front of my wife.
Why do you have to play in front of your wife? We aren't talking porn here, these characters are fully clothed. Also does she get mad or insecure when you are playing a game or are you assuming she does?
I ask as there are dudes that watch porn with their wives (which i find ridiculous as its basically mental cheating to me ) and some of the same people who do that are not ok with sexy costumes in games. Makes no sense.

Also Lara Croft is almost 30 year old staple and iconic. Its hot in them jungles, so why wouldn't she be wearing tight explorer shorts and why cant she be full chested? It was even portrayed in a movie with a real lady, and Angelina pulled off the characters well, imo.
 

rkofan87

Gold Member
People who get mad at the lack of it these days need to get a life. we have pornhub now, & sexy women aren't the reason why video games from that era were so good.
Besides, there are still some games with fanservice these days like GG Strive & Senran Kagura (find it embarassing i even know about the latter franchise)
i think reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee is the site you want not gaf
 
I'll take games with covers like these any day, by the way :

s-l1600.jpg


s-l1600.jpg
Thats what i am talking about. DnD had this style at time too. I loved it then and love it now. I will never look like that guy and would of never been with a woman who looks like that (out of my league) , thats the point, its fantasy. You play as the characters and you want them to look good. Do these people want frumpy blue haired hildabeasts?

Oh and the golden axe covers seem to be different in different locations, but all have similar style art aesthetics.

What I remember:
Golden_Axe.jpg
Japanese gaII:
47501_front.jpg


It's weird as GA2 artwork is the same for both USA and Europe, but the 3rd goes back to different art
Hottest-Golden-Axe-III-Game-Cartridge-16-bit-MD-Game-Card-With-Retail-Box-For-Sega.jpg
golden_axe_iii_mega_drive_custom_box_cover_v_2_bv__by_sidious000_dc6vc9k-fullview.jpg


So weird how art boxes were so different back then, but that is for a different thread. Actually sounds like a good idea to make one.
 

CGNoire

Member
I never said it was, the original poster simply said that he wanted all of his characters - male and female - to look hot, that it's not about objectifying women, it's about games with good-looking characters.
Objectifiying woman can be "sometimes" damaging to some woman when its all encompassing on a huge scale and of course woman who want to look hot also contibute to this aswell. But non of that is an excuse for people to go after objectification itsself or go out of there way to blanket ban the male gaze or male exspression of what they (male artists) personally find attractive nor is it wrong to create highly unrealistic standards for "fictional" characters beauty. Men have just as much a right to exspress there sexual attractions as woman even if highy idealised or based on outdated distortions. Its there artistic right.

There is nothing wrong with objectification. Men and woman do it to each other all the time both in private and in public with people they dont know as well. We do it with our eyes we, do it with our minds all the time and we often do it with our art. An intelligent man can hold an objectified view of a woman and still fully respect her at the same time.It is 100% natural and shouldnt be under attack.

Like I said it can definatly be damaging on a massive scale, but to go after ever single instance of it like its some existential threat is delusional, an over correction and when it comes to interfering in male artistic exspression morally wrong.
 
Personally, I think the people who bitch about "sexualizing" video game characters are just ashamed that they find themselves attracted to, and jerk off to, these video game characters who are "too sexy," so feel that the characters need to be uglied up so they won't find them attractive/sexy. Either that or they hate getting rejected by sexy women in real life, so need the women in their games to be in their league so they feel they have a shot.
 
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CGNoire

Member
Thats what i am talking about. DnD had this style at time too. I loved it then and love it now. I will never look like that guy and would of never been with a woman who looks like that (out of my league) , thats the point, its fantasy. You play as the characters and you want them to look good. Do these people want frumpy blue haired hildabeasts?

Oh and the golden axe covers seem to be different in different locations, but all have similar style art aesthetics.

What I remember:
Golden_Axe.jpg
Japanese gaII:
47501_front.jpg


It's weird as GA2 artwork is the same for both USA and Europe, but the 3rd goes back to different art
Hottest-Golden-Axe-III-Game-Cartridge-16-bit-MD-Game-Card-With-Retail-Box-For-Sega.jpg
golden_axe_iii_mega_drive_custom_box_cover_v_2_bv__by_sidious000_dc6vc9k-fullview.jpg


So weird how art boxes were so different back then, but that is for a different thread. Actually sounds like a good idea to make one.
Thats what i am talking about. DnD had this style at time too. I loved it then and love it now. I will never look like that guy and would of never been with a woman who looks like that (out of my league) , thats the point, its fantasy. You play as the characters and you want them to look good. Do these people want frumpy blue haired hildabeasts?

Oh and the golden axe covers seem to be different in different locations, but all have similar style art aesthetics.

What I remember:
Golden_Axe.jpg
Japanese gaII:
47501_front.jpg


It's weird as GA2 artwork is the same for both USA and Europe, but the 3rd goes back to different art
Hottest-Golden-Axe-III-Game-Cartridge-16-bit-MD-Game-Card-With-Retail-Box-For-Sega.jpg
golden_axe_iii_mega_drive_custom_box_cover_v_2_bv__by_sidious000_dc6vc9k-fullview.jpg


So weird how art boxes were so different back then, but that is for a different thread. Actually sounds like a good idea to make one.
Myman.gif

If ya love Golden axe make sure to play Return of the King which is the best 3d implementation of the genre in 3d. Amazing coop game.
 

Saber

Gold Member
Western developers care more about realism and Japanese developers care more about style. There is no "wrong" way but for my taste always liked how Japanese devs model their characters.

Western don't care about realism. They do this on purpose.

I like a lot GoT, but it's clear of what they done there. Otherwise they wouldn't give the main character a skin that let's him just keep his underwear(he is basically almost nude). Same thing happen to Spider-man.
 
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CGNoire

Member
Not that I agree, but I'm okay with game devs not doing the same thing over and over. I get bored. I got bored of squared-jawed marines in the PS360 era too. Change is good.

Nah, the only bitterness is from people whose understanding and appreciation of beauty are so narrow. Beauty isn't a fixed paradigm, it's changed and moved immensely across time and culture and it will continue to do so - heck even my buddies and I rarely agree on who the hottest girl in the room is. There's nothing perverse about looking at things from different perspectives and finding that beauty has more than one definition.
We need both. When the ruling idea is to replace it all with just one "approved" of depiction you then run into the problem where having now.
 

Griffon

Member
I'm gonna say it downright: Complaining about good looking women and "male gaze" is just thinly veiled misogyny and hate against the female beauty.
90s kids now regurgitating the puritan ideas of their nutty parents and trying to disguise that as being progressive.
 
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Rhazkul

Member
But this really isn't what's going on.

We're not facing something as benign as different interpretations of beauty, like the long necks of African women in certain tribes, or other typical multicultural examples. In those cases, the local definition of beauty still has a firm, positive basis in the expectations of that gender, role, age group, etc within their culture. The various adornments still fit within a paradigm of promoting a harmonious integration into your distinct given (sexed, etc) body and role.

Today, we're seeing something completely different, and driven entirely by a negative inversion. Plastering perverse men--like Dylan Mulvaney in his poorly expressed comic drag--all over different products and spaces has nothing to do with any positive harmonization between the person, their body, and their position within the broader social order. Instead, what is being directly and openly fetishized is the inversion itself--the more extreme the better. Turning a man into a cartoon drag parody is desired as empowering on some other level, as a destruction of order and traditional beauty.

We don't have to put up with that. It's a kind of terrorism against the human soul and against beauty itself. And it should be recognized as such; there are no compromises where you allow this kind of thing to enter your schools, culture, etc without always openly calling it for what it is and refusing to play along.

You nailed it perfectly. Couldn't have said it better. What we see in the culture war is basically Critical theory in action and it's destructive in nature. Nothing good comes from Critical Theory ever...i hate how it somehow found its way into our culture and now it permeates every corner, seeking to destroy the natural order for the sake of it. Good is bad, bad is good, man is woman, woman is man, right is left and left is right, 2+2=5...we are absolutely going to lose our sanity if we don't collectively stop this madness. Reject woke and CT....always.
 

Krathoon

Member
It reminds me of an episode of Red Dwarf where this spaceship had a society where it was against the law to criticize anything.

The society was completely upside down and the spaceship was heading towards a sun.
 

Krathoon

Member
I do miss those games that had kind of an adolescent style of storytelling. There is a certain charm to a game that is really campy. Twisted Metal comes to mind.
 
I'll take games with covers like these any day, by the way :

s-l1600.jpg


s-l1600.jpg
The girls on these covers are awesome. They look strong, empowered, have enough muscles that you can believe they can handle themselves pretty good, all while still looking feminine and nothing like Abby or whatever we have now in video games. I could wish these girls be my girlfriend although they'd totally dominate me :p. This is how strong female women should be portrayed in video games. Strong, independent, doing what they like, but also just being a feminine female. Normal stuff really.

And before anyone begins about unrealistic body proportions or anything, look at that dwarf and the guy, 0.01% of actual humans have proportions like that as well :p. It's just all really nice and pleasing to look at and that is what entertainment should be. An escape from daily fat life, and being able to place yourselves in the shoes of one of these characters that actually could be heroes.
 
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Shubh_C63

Member
Why do you have to play in front of your wife? We aren't talking porn here, these characters are fully clothed. Also does she get mad or insecure when you are playing a game or are you assuming she does?
I ask as there are dudes that watch porn with their wives (which i find ridiculous as its basically mental cheating to me ) and some of the same people who do that are not ok with sexy costumes in games. Makes no sense.

Also Lara Croft is almost 30 year old staple and iconic. Its hot in them jungles, so why wouldn't she be wearing tight explorer shorts and why cant she be full chested? It was even portrayed in a movie with a real lady, and Angelina pulled off the characters well, imo.
Indians really don't understand how a grown ass man can still play video games. And that is especially true for females here. Having a hot woman on screen in odds to its setting enforces that stigma. And anyway I want every aspect of the game to be lore friendly anyway.

Staple characters are just that, unique. I wouldn't want 2023 version of a game to copy that. Bayonetta makes sense, but Bayonetta in a real world where monkey's are a threat and a short fall kills you doesn't make sense. Chainsaw lollipop is what I think a setting should be to have over the top sexy character.
 

Krathoon

Member
The whole idea behind the original Lara Croft was that she was this strong, sophisticated, larger than life kind of woman. The fact she is not realistic makes her iconic. She was kind of cartoonish in the original games.

That is what made her fun to play. They kind of lost some of that when they made her more realistic, but it made her more vulnerable and added more danger to the game.
 

Bond007

Member
Dont mind- grew up with it and by no means harmed a game because of it.
We are so soft these days, its a shame.

We celebrate killing and dismemberment in games but heaven forbid bewbs on a raunchy outfit. I'm fine with all of it.
 
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Krathoon

Member
Bayonetta has a sexualized character and treats heaven and hell as both bad places. I am surprised it has not caused an uproar.

If Bayonetta was made in America, I bet it would get trouble. It gets a pass for being a weird Japanese game.
 
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