Dr Mayonnaise
Member
I have never gone above 1.5-1.6GB Vram usage on BF3 64 player maps on ultra at 1920x1080.
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Is a new PC a better choice than a next gen console?
- Thread starter Ghost
- Start date
I have never gone above 1.5-1.6GB Vram usage on BF3 64 player maps on ultra at 1920x1080.
Smelly Tramp
Member
honestly if you can go without either microsoft or sony's first party studio's games then a pc is a no brainer.
but those aren't even the best exclusives on their platforms
a game can load textures in ram but trust me the gpu in the new consoles are not going to render 5 gigs of textures at one time.
it will just hold then until needed. same as holding textures in PCs main memory until needed.
I agree with this sentiment. I don't think the disparity between console and PC game performance and graphics will be great enough to justify the entry level price difference, if graphics are your thing. I think you will get a great library of games no matter what you pick, so it really comes down to budget, and you're better off saving your money for next or next gen+ cards. I think either console is the best bang for your buck for awhile, especially from a services perspective. Then switch over to PC when Oculus Rift HD Sunglasses and Martini Edition comes out.
Yyyy? Why are You even telling me this?
Just adding to it?
If you already have a somewhat decent PC, upgrading probably wouldn't cost that much, and you could upgrade now, lol. All I need to do for my existing rig is get a new video card, for example.
But my rig with a modest graphics card that can run current gen games on high settings cost around 900 dollars. For a rig that can run next gen games I'm thinking you'll need a grand if you're starting from scratch (including monitor, keyboard/mouse). It's an investment to say the least, and I found it well worth it. But my current rig is as affordable as it was because I bought it last year, very late into this console cycle, so most rigs were able to far outshine consoles by then.
But my rig with a modest graphics card that can run current gen games on high settings cost around 900 dollars. For a rig that can run next gen games I'm thinking you'll need a grand if you're starting from scratch (including monitor, keyboard/mouse). It's an investment to say the least, and I found it well worth it. But my current rig is as affordable as it was because I bought it last year, very late into this console cycle, so most rigs were able to far outshine consoles by then.
I think you will find that in fact the RAM pools will be 66% for vRAM and 33% for sysRAM. It was the same for X360 with its unified RAM. In case of the PS4 that should come out to 3,5GB vRAM.
With graphics getting better, but gameplay remaining the same, won't the vRAM percentage increase? More like 85% vRAM, 15% sysRAM?
Look at what the current consoles can do with 256 MB sysRAM.
How much can you build a decent PC for these days? Are you going to get comparable performance for cost? I know that you will save money on games as time goes on, but is it enough to make up for the initial investment?
I've been wanting to jump back into PC gaming as well, mainly just to have access to the full array of possibilities (I will be picking up both an XB1 and a PS4 for the same reason, although I've skipped Nintendo the past few gens.)
I've been wanting to jump back into PC gaming as well, mainly just to have access to the full array of possibilities (I will be picking up both an XB1 and a PS4 for the same reason, although I've skipped Nintendo the past few gens.)
I think it's quite possible. 2/3 vRAM and 1/3 sysRAM is a conservative estimate.
Depends on how you define decent and what you want it to do.
I guess. I bought the same card in 2007 and ended up upgrading in 2011 for The Witcher 2 and Crysis 2. Hell, even Mass Effect 3 will run on that card.
The ability to use/create a wide array of MODs (not only official ones) pretty much justifies the PC route, or at least set it as worthy of consideration. Such feature will become critical in the incoming years, as releasing "World sandboxes" seems to be the next-gen fad.
See Watch dogs, DA: Inquisitor, Witcher 3, MGS, ARMA 3.
Or the usual suspects: GTA, Assassin's, TES,Fallout, Saint's Row, etc
Given the scope of those games, most are bound to have a large amount of bugs/issues, that will take several months to fix.
But guess what? in PC, you can look forward to unnofficial patches, or even use Console commands to circumvent them.
And to ALL of those benefits, add the possibility of perpetual back compatibility, portability, free multiplayer, and will sooner or later be able to play all "console exclusives" via emulators anyway. Such a wonderful era to be a PC Gamer..
See Watch dogs, DA: Inquisitor, Witcher 3, MGS, ARMA 3.
Or the usual suspects: GTA, Assassin's, TES,Fallout, Saint's Row, etc
Given the scope of those games, most are bound to have a large amount of bugs/issues, that will take several months to fix.
But guess what? in PC, you can look forward to unnofficial patches, or even use Console commands to circumvent them.
And to ALL of those benefits, add the possibility of perpetual back compatibility, portability, free multiplayer, and will sooner or later be able to play all "console exclusives" via emulators anyway. Such a wonderful era to be a PC Gamer..
You'll be able to play console exclusives via emulators?
Yea I don't think that will be happening anytime soon
Prince Vultan
Banned
I do not care for PC gaming. So no from me.
Do you think the next gen consoles have the technical capabilities or the ecosystem to disrupt the market like the PS2 did? Will PC ports drop off the cliff once console devs get used to playing with 8gig of RAM?
Or is the PC running the show in terms of innovation and technical capabilities now?
You are misinterpreting what happened.
PC devs were beginning to shift over to console development. Which is why your top 10 cratered as hard as it did.
Look at the last 3 years and genres that simply were made almost exclusively on consoles JRPGs are now being put on the PC. Even Square Enix is considering putting Final Fantasy XV on the PC and I'm waiting on them to fully commit to that to see if I need a console or I can use that money to improve on my PC.
That alone says how much the only thing that matters between consoles and PC are first party exclusives and the upfront cost of a PC + lower prices of its software vs the lower upfront cost of the console + subscription fees for multiplayer if your console isn't a Wii U and the higher prices for software.
Why even bother to post this? You brought out 0 supporting evidence for your decision.
Thats the thing, we're going past VRAM being big bottleneck, where sys memory was always bottleneck for game design. Check how much VRAM to system memory ratio is on PC. There is a reason why KZ:SF use only 1.5gb out of 4.5gb for graphics, not because there is ratio 66% to 33%, but because You will need 3gb for other stuff than rendering. Tons of games on PC already take around 3gb memory and more is converting to x64 executable to use around 5gb for game systems.
Also bandwidth limits VRAM usage on rendering.
Yes, we will.
Regardless if it takes years, that's still and advantage over Consoles.
And again, that's not even among the most important reasons to make the switch! Even if each point by itself might not critical, when you consider all of them in tandem? yeah..
Like a lot of you (I guess) I'm currently weighing up my next-gen options, in a couple of years chances are I'll have convinced myself to buy all the consoles, but for the first 12-24 months all my eggs will be in one basket.
I feel that both launch line ups are pretty lackluster, and of all the stuff slated for 2013 release everything I really want to play will also be out on PC. My PC isn't anywhere near capable of running the likes of Watchdogs at current gen levels let alone next-gen, so the option of investing my money in a new PC instead has become a real possibility.
That got me thinking, what would I miss out on if I put all my console eggs in the PC basket for the next 2 years? Would it be so much stuff that I regretted spending the money? Things seem great now on PC, but how much do console launches affect what gets released on PC?
So I did a little research:
I went back to 1998 (so as to catch multiple system launches), listed the highest reviewed games from metacritic for each year, and picked 10 of what I consider (personal taste warning) to be the ten biggest/most talked about games from each year, the kind of games that you wouldn't want to have missed out on.
I then charted if a PC version was available at around the same time
Here's what I found:
Here's the games I used:
Code:1998 PC Zelda: Ocarina of Time 0 Half Life 1 Grim Fandango 1 Thief 1 Fallout 2 1 Metal Gear Solid 0 Baldurs Gate 1 Starcraft 1 Banjo Kazooie 0 Gran Tourismo 0 Total PC Games 6 1999 PC SoulCalibur 0 Homeworld 1 Gran Tourismo 2 0 Age of Empires II 1 Alpha Centauri 1 Sytem Shock 2 1 Unreal Tournament 1 Tony Hawk 0 Planescape: Torment 1 Freespace 2 1 Total PC Games 7 2000 PC (PS2 Release) Tony Hawk 2 1 Perfect Dark 0 Baldurs Gate 2 1 Zelda: Majoras Mask 0 Final Fantasy IX 0 Jet Grind Radio 0 SSX 0 The Sims 1 Virtua Tennis 0 The Longest Journey 1 Total PC Games 4 2001 PC GTA 3 0 (Late release) Tony Hawk 3 0 Halo 0 MGS 2 0 Gran Tourismo 3: A-Spec 0 Devil May Cry 0 Paper Mario 0 Final Fantasy X 0 Conkers Bad Fur Day 0 ICO 0 Total PC Games 0 2002 PC Metroid Prime 0 GTA: Vice City 0 Splinter Cell 0 Warcraft 3 1 Eternal Darkness 0 Super Mario Sunshine 0 Medal of Honor 1 Resident Evil 0 Battlefield 1942 1 Morrowind 1 Total PC Games 4 2003 PC Star Wars: KOTOR 0 (Late release) Virtual Fighter 4 0 Viewtiful Joe 0 PoP: Sands of Time 1 Call of Duty 1 Ratchet & Clank 2 0 Panzer Dragoon Orta 0 PGR 2 0 Burnout 2 0 Beyond Good & Evil 1 Total PC Games 3 2004 PC Half Life 2 1 GTA: San Andreas 0 Halo 2 0 Burnout 3 0 World of Warcraft 1 UT 2004 1 Rome: Total War 1 Metroid Prime 2 0 MGS 3 0 Ninja Gaiden 0 Total PC Releases 4 2005 PC Xbox 360 Launch Resident Evil 4 0 Civilisation IV 1 God of War 0 SC: Chaos Theory 1 Forza 0 Battlefield 2 1 Shadow of the Colossus 0 Guitar Hero 0 Burnout Revenge 0 Call of Duty 2 1 Total PC Releases 4 2006 PC Zelda: TP 0 Oblivion 1 Gears of War 0 Okami 0 Company of Heroes 1 Final Fantasy XII 0 Tom Clancy: GRAW 0 MGS3: Subsistence 0 HL2: Episode One 1 Bully 0 Total PC Releases 3 2007 PC Launch of Steam Community Super Mario Galaxy 0 Bioshock 1 The Orange Box 1 Halo 3 0 Modern Warfare 1 (Less than a month late) God of War 2 0 Rock Band 0 Mass Effect 0 Crysis 1 Uncharted 0 Total PC Releases 4 2008 PC GTA IV 0 Little Big Planet 0 MGS 4 0 Super Smash Bros. Brawl 0 Gears of War 2 0 Fallout 3 1 Braid 0 Fable 2 0 Burnout Paradise 1 Left 4 Dead 1 Total PC Releases 3 2009 PC Uncharted 2 0 Street Fighter IV 0 (Late Release) Modern Warfare 2 1 Forza 3 0 Batman: Arkham Asylum 1 Dragon Age: Origins 1 Killzone 2 0 Assassins Creed 2 0 Borderlands 1 DiRT 2 1 Total PC Releases 5 2010 PC Super Mario Galaxy 2 0 Mass Effect 2 1 Red Dead Redemption 0 Starcraft 2 1 God of War III 0 Halo: Reach 0 Civilization V 1 Super Meat Boy 1 (Just over a month late) Bioshock 2 1 Fallout New Vegas 1 Total PC Releases 6 2011 PC Batman Arkham City 1 Skyrim 1 Portal 2 1 Minecraft 1 Uncharted 3 0 Battlefield 3 1 Gears of War 3 0 Deus Ex 1 Dead Space 2 1 L.A. Noire 0 (Late Release) Total PC Releases 7 2012 PC Mass Effect 3 1 The Walking Dead 1 Journey 0 Far Cry 3 1 Borderlands 2 1 XCOM 1 Fez 0 Diablo III 1 The Witcher 2 1 Sleeping Dogs 1 Total PC Releases 8 2013 (to date) PC The Last of Us 0 Bioshock Infinite 1 DOTA 2 1 Tomb Raider 1 Pikmin 3 0 Saints Row IV 1 DmC: Devil May Cry 1 Splinter Cell:Blacklist 1 Papers, Please 1 Rogue Legacy 1 Total PC Releases 8
The data seems to show that consoles have the power to bring the PC market to it's knees. The PS2 era changed what the market thought a good game was, and changed what people wanted from the experience, and no one working on the PC kept up. Over the last 10 years the PC market has adapted and crept back into mainstream relevance, and the PS3 era has failed to be as disruptive to the PC, if anything it fed off of what was happening there.
Do you think the next gen consoles have the technical capabilities or the ecosystem to disrupt the market like the PS2 did? Will PC ports drop off the cliff once console devs get used to playing with 8gig of RAM?
Or is the PC running the show in terms of innovation and technical capabilities now?
What software did you use to make the charts?
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I wonder. Look at Battlefield 4. They say the requirements are very similar to BF3, since the same engines and because you can just scale it back. So right there is an example of a next gen game, that won't boost the requirements noticebly at all compared to a 3 year old game!
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
A new PC is a better choice for the enthusiast gamer with even a mildly broad taste in games ranging outside the JRPG genre than either next-gen console. Why? They're open platforms, they have nearly all the games either console has (and can run them better), they're modular/upgradeable, they have free online gaming, they have cheaper games due to competitive digital distribution vendors being able to actually operate on the platform, they're a more personal platform, they have real backwards compatibility ranging back to nearly every gaming-capable machine (including older PCs) from the Wii and older (natively with older Windows games and through emulation for everything else), they are far more flexible (yes, you can use a controller with a PC quite easily and couch gaming only requires the same HDMI cable that would connect a console), PC games can be modded, gaming communities for PC games actually last (so mods and multiplayer servers extend for years), there are more and actually quite unique PC-exclusive games and genres than there are on any given console, the platform does not limit you to the whims of any one corporation, the platform can do everything besides gaming as well and better than any console (including, but not limited to, multitasking, internet browsing, movie/video streaming, video editing, work documents, music-playing, and engineering work), the platform does not restrict content through development license fees or DLC/patch fees or whatever, and finally, a superior PC does not truly cost much more than a console anymore either (online subscriptions and more expensive games with a higher chance of total system failure and extremely limited price cuts even years into the console's life cycle). This is why the PC is a superior platform and thus the better choice, in my opinion.
Yeah, I figured it would be a bit more, curious about how much more. I've built a PC before, but it was long ago so I am familiar with the infinite spend that could occur. That is a good starting point though, thanks.
This obviously would be very subjective and different for each person, but if I was going this route I would want something beefy enough to be a marked improvement graphically or performance-wise over the XB1 and PS4. I wouldn't necessarily go this route to get PC exclusives (although that would be a nice side benefit), I more likely be getting 1st party on the respective consoles and multiplats on PC, so it would need to be worth it.
fluffydelusions
Member
I can't hold all these PC threads.gif
SneakyStephan
Banned
This man gets it.
You can build an entire pc, play a ton of games on it AND fully upgrade it 4 years later for that full generation leap over the current consoles 3 years before the next gen consoles release, and still have money left over.
Console gaming is only cheaper if you don't actually play games AND only play offline.
Better? Objectively you could argue yes, a PC is a better choice. Doesn't necessarily mean PC is for you though, but I don't think you can go wrong down this path. I play everything myself, handhelds, consoles, pc, etc . . . but if I had to give one up, wouldn't be the PC, lol.
Any game also coming out on 360/PS3 is not a real next gen game in my opinion. Who knows what the system requirements will be for Battlefield 5 in 2015?
Nobody knows, and that's why right now is a bad time to buy a new graphics card. My advice for new PC builders: Buy the fastest CPU, the best motherboard and as much memory as you can afford right now. They will last a very long time. Then buy a midrange GPU, just fast enough to play the last console ports of this generation and next year's cross-gen games. Don't waste $500 on 2GB cards that might be outdated very soon.
-MD-
Member
I literally put some electronics in my case, plugged it in and played. Not a single issue for over a year. First time ever building one.
And it costs me less than double that of a console, not triple. I run everything on ultra.
I see it 1.2gb system ram vs 1.3gb VRAM. You still trying to add MSAA to the equation, why?
Actually C3 takes 1.3gb system ram in certain levels, like Dam level, i've just checked that, so its 50:50.
rudieboy77
Member
I am confused by all the claims that the consoles will be better/even to a PC for the next two years. These consoles are using HD7790/7850 respectively and most games for the first year are going to be 360/1 ps3/4, so basically not as optimized to the hardware as they could be. So folks using HD7950/GTX660ti or higher are not going to be running multi plats better than these consoles? This is my plan then by fall of next year or spring 2015, by a new GPU.
oconnomiyaki
Member
The only reason I'm not cancelling my PS4 pre-order is because the missus will want to play Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy XV, and I'm always down for a game of Tekken. I'm also assuming eventually they'll throw free games at us with PS+. But the thing is, while I've enjoyed playing games on the PS3 and 360, most of those experiences are also on the PC. (Mass Effect, Skyrim, etc.) Most of the exclusives people rave about -- The Last of Us, Journey, God of War, etc -- are games I just didn't enjoy at all.
So I recently got a gaming PC. Nothing too beasty, but enough to last me for about a year before I feel an upgrade will be essential. And it also gives me the added benefit of being able to play Blizzard's offerings, as well as offering me a wonderful selection of indie games. It also provides a great social experience thanks to Steam.
So yea, for me at least, I'd say so. In fact, I could easily see myself going mobile and PC only when it comes to gaming.
So I recently got a gaming PC. Nothing too beasty, but enough to last me for about a year before I feel an upgrade will be essential. And it also gives me the added benefit of being able to play Blizzard's offerings, as well as offering me a wonderful selection of indie games. It also provides a great social experience thanks to Steam.
So yea, for me at least, I'd say so. In fact, I could easily see myself going mobile and PC only when it comes to gaming.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
Yes, but it has a higher barrier to entry that people are unwilling/unable to get past. Sony had enough exclusives that I cared about with the PS3 that I'm happy to pick up a PS4 as a secondary console, but it is absolutely secondary, and I'm not even sure if I'm going to keep my launch pre-order, since the only launch game I'm interested in that I won't be able to play on PC is Knack. I will surely want one down the line for games like FFXV and Deep Down (assuming that follows Dragon's Dogma in not coming to PC), but is that reason enough to buy one now?
cobragt4001
Banned
Those gpus will perform better than the next consoles, got to factor in more than likely a person rocking a 660 or 7950 has a pretty good cpu which the next gen consoles lack then there's the option of oc'ing.
EightBitNate
Member
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but does anyone think a PC built now will still run games well by 2018?
I dunno, because image quality? Who the hell plays at without AA? 0_o
I have the following system, you tell me:
Xeon E5645 6C/12T 2,4GHz @ 4GHz (~120 GFLOPS)
24GB 1266MHz DDR3 RAM
GTX Titan 6GB
500GB Samsung 840 SSD
It's the 13th-best rig in NeoGAF Race Your PC Thread 2, and number 1 in the Single-GPU category. I think I can make it.
...me
I see the only way PC doesn't get 50+% of GotY candidates (everything not first party, just about) is if M$ and/or Sony start flexing their muscle$ and start buying out exclusive games and/or content. PC is not really considered a threat in the console wars right now, as you can see with Titanfall (console exclusive, coming out on PC) and all of the indie games Sony announced as console exclusives w/ concurrent or close PC releases at the same time.
I am holding onto my gaming PC for sure, although I've had a decent PC since 2004 when I got into WoW, but I've only been playing my multiplats on PC the last couple years due to Big Picture and better controller support.
I am holding onto my gaming PC for sure, although I've had a decent PC since 2004 when I got into WoW, but I've only been playing my multiplats on PC the last couple years due to Big Picture and better controller support.
You wont see MSAA on consoles. SMAA T2x and FXAA will be standard next-gen and those do not take more than 50mb. Even if they manage to use something similar to SMAA 4x, so with some parts of 2x MSAA resolve, it wont take more than additional 100-120mb.
nkarafo
Member
It will need an upgrade (maybe). It depends. But hey, if you buy a console at launch it probably won't run games by 2018 anyway because it will most likely be dead. So, PC users will need a new GFX card and console owners a new console to replace the dead one. In both situations you'll have to spend some extra cash midway through the generation.
How old and bottom barrel would you have to have a computer like that!!!! Did they even sell stuff like that back when the hd twins came out?
Pc games have a longer shelf life than console games, and most console games can eventually be played on the PC thanks to emulation. So overall, buying a PC game is a better investment than a console game, and cheaper too.
But console gaming still has its qualities. Im going PS4 + PC next gen
But console gaming still has its qualities. Im going PS4 + PC next gen
Lasthope106
Member
All I know is that by the end of this year I'm going to be playing with either a Titan or dual 780s.
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