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Is Gamepass hurting Microsoft showcases?

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
re-watched E3 2018 last night and wow, what a great showcase. First party revealed Halo Infinite at the start and next to last, had Gears 5. Spencer was closing the show and was interrupted by CDPR's Cyberpunk 2077 which was so damn cool. Other AAA third party titles like Metro Exodus, Battlefield 5, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, The Division 2, Dying Light 2 and Devil May Cry 5 were revealed or in the case of Metro Exodus, second year in a row. Showcase gave me 9 games. And they showed games that weren't for me like Ori 2, Sekiro, Just Cause 4, Nier Automata, Kingdom Hearts 3, Forza Horizon 4 and a few others. So it was a great overall showcase and great for me.
gamepass existed back in 2018....
 

Relique

Gold Member
This is what I want them to do. Fill in the empty months with AAA games. High quality, high production values, big $70 games. Elden Rings, Avatar, Guardians of the Galaxy. Resident Evil 8. Resident Evil 4. Day one. Especially when they have so few exclusives th

Not every game is for sale. Guardians of the Galaxy underperformed and square wanted to rid themselves of their western studios so they took the money. Capcom and Bandai Namco would never sell any game day one unless they have no faith in it. Resident Evil and Elden Ring are guaranteed multi-million dollar sellers. Xbox couldn't afford a game like that to pad out a single month. Even Microsoft is not that rich. You will see big games like that a few months/years after release, when they've already fulfilled most of their sales potential.

Maybe they can make a big deal like that every once in a while, especially if there is a prolonged AAA game drought and they start losing subscribers, but they aren't going to bankrupt themselves by shelling out the kind of money you are talking about multiple times a year. Hell, even when their first party studios are firing on all cylinders, they aren't going to aim for more than 1 big AAA first party game a quarter... if that. The rest is going to be AA stuff and live service expansions like you are seeing now. Asking for much more than that is unrealistic. The economics simply don't work with the subscriber count they have now.
 

supernova8

Member
I think it's a massive leap forward for Bethesda. The problem is that Bethesda has never been a graphical powerhouse. Oblivion looked worse than GOW on PS2 and it was a 360 game. Skyrim looked like shit next to Uncharted and Red Dead. Fallout 4 looked like a PS360 game compared to Witcher 3 which came out after a massive downgrade.
Oblivion was only impressive because big expansive open world games were still relatively new at the time. I think people were willing to forgive the visuals (I thought it looked but sure not exactly Crysis). Now practically every game is open world...... plus it doesn't help that the character model just makes Starfield look like one of those "Wow this dude remade No Man's Sky in Unreal Engine 5!!!!!!!!" stupid videos.
Like I said, no one here wants to play these smaller games. If they did, we would have threads about them. We had a bunch of these games last year and no one has talked about them since.
It's not that I wouldn't want to play them. Some of them looked good. I just don't need to see them in what is meant to be their big annual showcase.
This is what I want them to do. Fill in the empty months with AAA games. High quality, high production values, big $70 games. Elden Rings, Avatar, Guardians of the Galaxy. Resident Evil 8. Resident Evil 4. Day one. Especially when they have so few exclusives this year.
Issue with Game Pass is precisely that a lot of the games people actually want to play aren't on Game Pass. Your FIFAs, CODs, Battlefields, Elden Rings, Resident Evils. Means that the idea you can just pay $10-15 per a month and you're "done" is a bit disingenuous unless you were already indifferent about what games you want to play. I would think these indifferent people are a minority on a niche gaming forum like GAF.
 
Game pass is dope, cant get myself to even finish the Playstation games that recently came to PC (God of War, Detroit, Death stranding). $180 basically wasted, $210 if they were on PS5. Just bought Kingdom come though for $8 off gamepass and enjoying it alot rn. However ESO not being on PC gamepass or Doom 2016 makes no sense to me.
 
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Handel

Member
It will always baffle me that so many Neogaf members treat anything that's not super high production values as being an indie, by their words "indie trash". Most of them should be old enough to have been a gamer before the term indie or even really AAA was even a thing. There were just games, some with a higher budget than others but that didn't stop many games with small/medium budgets from being good, same as now.

Don't think GamePass has had any particular effect on what games are shown during the conferences, and if it has it's for the better. Would much rather have a bunch of AA games from a diversity of genres, that will likely be experiences that don't overstay their welcome, then a bunch of bloated AAA games that feel the same as many other AAA games because they're trend chasing as a safety net to recoup costs.
 

peter42O

Member
gamepass existed back in 2018....
I know but their focal point and investments weren't centered around it like it is now, four years later.

Watching an Xbox Showcase now, I no longer expect any major third party AAA game reveals or any AAA third party full/timed exclusive games. For example, I thought maybe I could get Jedi Survivor gameplay today or maybe a Dragon's Dogma 2 reveal but nope. Can't expect reveals like these anymore.

E3 2018 showed me Dying Light 2, The Division 2 and DMC 5 reveals which was great because even though they're multi-platform, seeing them get revealed on the show made it better in general and for me personally.

2022 didn't give me anything new. No new game reveals for me at all. 2020 started this direction and it's pretty much all they'll be doing from this moment forward. It is what it is and I have learned my lesson. My confidence, hype and excitement for Xbox right now is pretty much gone. At this point, whatever they do, they do.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
It will always baffle me that so many Neogaf members treat anything that's not super high production values as being an indie, by their words "indie trash". Most of them should be old enough to have been a gamer before the term indie or even really AAA was even a thing. There were just games, some with a higher budget than others but that didn't stop many games with small/medium budgets from being good, same as now.

Don't think GamePass has had any particular effect on what games are shown during the conferences, and if it has it's for the better. Would much rather have a bunch of AA games from a diversity of genres, that will likely be experiences that don't overstay their welcome, then a bunch of bloated AAA games that feel the same as many other AAA games because they're trend chasing as a safety net to recoup costs.
reposting from another thread because people in GAF seriously do not know what an indie game is anymore
You guys do realize it's not 2010 anymore, right? Indie games have matured and grown exponentially since they first boomed into popularity in the mid-late 2000s. Like, you haven't forgotten about Kena, which is a TRIPLE A QUALITY indie game made by Ember Lab? Or Cuphead which is a lovingly animated 2d platformer with animation dating back to the 1930s rubberhose style of animation? or Bright Memory Infinite, another example of a triple A quality indie game, made by one person, IN HIS SPARE FUCKING TIME? Morbid Metal, yet ANOTHER triple A quality indie game?
The truth is that indie games are more easily able to compete with AA and AAA these days because of the tools provided. Unreal Engine 5 makes it easy as piss to make Triple A style graphics, and gameplay just as generic as every other AAA cinematic game on the planet. AAA has nothing to offer that indie can't already replicate when it comes to visuals and gameplay. The only reason indies DON'T make more games like these is because they have more of a unique concept for their game than just another pretty looking cinematic showcase
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
After that shitshow I will be letting my Gamepass subscription expire at the end of the month. There is absolutely no reason to pay $14.99 a month now that my $1 conversion period has ended.

MS has to get their shit together when it comes to getting their games developed instead of delay after delay. Indie/side scrolling crap isn't what I am paying for.
 

Gravemind

Member
What's Sony's excuse for their terrible showcases then?

Anyway, the answer is no, it isn't hurting their showcases. The truth is that most people have a very specific taste in games, gravitating to one or two genres. With large showcases, most games just won't appeal to most viewers. Because of that, most of the showcase will be boring because most games aren't of interest.

There were around 30 games shown at the showcase. Do most people buy 30 games a year? In 2 years? 5 years? No. The average "gamer" probably buy 3 or 4 games a year at most.

The industry has so much more variety than it did back in the golden ages of E3 presentations. Modern presentations are no longer a AAA games showcase because of this.
 

Meicyn

Gold Member
I dont know. Starfield wowed me and my friends. We were going OMG wow towards the end when they showed the montage of the planets we can explore.

Frontier did similar showcases for Elite Dangerous, a game that also does procedurally generated worlds. Trailers made the Odyssey expansion seem amazing. Then the game came out.

Having thousands of worlds sounds amazing until you realize, it’ll be wide open spaces with not a lot to do in them. You will undoubtedly be given procedurally generated quests to give you things to do in those wide open areas. Remember Preston “Another Settlement Needs Our Help” Garvey from Fallout 4? Yeah, that’s the kind of stuff you can be prepared to have outside of the main story content. Expect the novelty to wear quickly, especially without the multiplayer aspect to introduce shared fun as people screw around in a giant playground.

I expect the community will likely mod the hell put of this game when it releases and it may yield some interesting stuff from that.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
reposting from another thread because people in GAF seriously do not know what an indie game is anymore
You guys do realize it's not 2010 anymore, right? Indie games have matured and grown exponentially since they first boomed into popularity in the mid-late 2000s. Like, you haven't forgotten about Kena, which is a TRIPLE A QUALITY indie game made by Ember Lab? Or Cuphead which is a lovingly animated 2d platformer with animation dating back to the 1930s rubberhose style of animation? or Bright Memory Infinite, another example of a triple A quality indie game, made by one person, IN HIS SPARE FUCKING TIME? Morbid Metal, yet ANOTHER triple A quality indie game?
The truth is that indie games are more easily able to compete with AA and AAA these days because of the tools provided. Unreal Engine 5 makes it easy as piss to make Triple A style graphics, and gameplay just as generic as every other AAA cinematic game on the planet. AAA has nothing to offer that indie can't already replicate when it comes to visuals and gameplay. The only reason indies DON'T make more games like these is because they have more of a unique concept for their game than just another pretty looking cinematic showcase
Im not paying $14.99 a month for sidescrolling crap that belongs in the 8-bit era. None of that shit is game changing. None of it gives me confidence that Gamepass has good long term potential. People want the heavy hitters and MS literally has NONE at the moment and until next year at the earliest. Who knows when Starfield is actually going to come out? Who also has confidence that it will be stable when it comes out?

Quite frankly I hope MS loses a lot of subscribers after that show. Maybe that will light a fire under their ass to start reigning in these studios who are doing a shitty job getting games out in a timely manner. Phil Spencer has done a shitty job at managing studios with that. Aside from Gears 5 and Forza, what has MS put out as a true exclusive in the last few years that has enticed people to have confidence that they know what they are doing. It has been "wait until next year" EVERY fucking year.

Microsoft, get your shit together and start holding these studios feet to the fire.
 

yurinka

Member
No, it's helping them.

Because in periods when their 1st party output is weak (like 2022) it helps to fill the conference with some nice indies and AAA 3d party that will be on GP. Even in cases where these game aren't so appealing to you, they feel better to have them there because you won't have to buy them to play them.

Without GP you'd ignore many of these games or you'd think that aren't so appealing to you, or you'd think they were a waste of time for the conference.
 

Ozzie666

Member
It does feel like they really try to pad things out a bit. But I've finally come to grips it. They are trying to show minimum value for the next year and give minimum subscription expectations. Yes it's a bit jarring and very different, but I also understand, finally. They are really promoting that proposition value.

They could find a way to do a more sizzle shorter presentation for big first parties or something. But it's pretty impressive when they list all the titles coming and that is not including any ADHOC additions to game pass.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
What's Sony's excuse for their terrible showcases then?

Anyway, the answer is no, it isn't hurting their showcases. The truth is that most people have a very specific taste in games, gravitating to one or two genres. With large showcases, most games just won't appeal to most viewers. Because of that, most of the showcase will be boring because most games aren't of interest.

There were around 30 games shown at the showcase. Do most people buy 30 games a year? In 2 years? 5 years? No. The average "gamer" probably buy 3 or 4 games a year at most.

The industry has so much more variety than it did back in the golden ages of E3 presentations. Modern presentations are no longer a AAA games showcase because of this.
Frankly, I am at a loss for words. MS has a huge problem of overpromising/overhyping and underdelivering. Sony on the otherhand has a problem of NO promising/NO talking and delivering very mediocre shows. BUT...when all is said and done, I know that Sony is going to give me exclusives to be excited about.

I know God of War is coming, I knew Horizon Forbidden West was coming. I knew Ratchet and Clank was coming.... Sony has had something BIG lined up multiple times every year and for the most part those games delivered and were solid.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yes, you're NOT paying 14.99 a month for sidescrolling crap that belongs in the 8 bit era. I want you to name 5 games from that showcase that were 2d and 8 bit..... you can't
God i swear gaming showcases bring out the worst in people.
MS and their inability to bring out heavy hitting games is what is bringing out the worst in me. They are investing a lot to push people into Gamepass and all I saw is MS is just absolutely clueless.
 

NikuNashi

Member
A lot of people are calling these indie games, they are not indie games, they are AAA games without the time, resources and care put into them because they will be chucked out for free on gamepass 'day1'.

Remember guys, there's no such thing as a free lunch. This here is the result.
 
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Amiga

Member
GP did get a good lineup. Though PS+Extra launch has diluted the apparent value of GP. What made things worse for GP is that game releases have generally slowed down because of COVID.
 
A subscription service needs a LOT of content to keep people subbed. It's almost a necessity for MS to have a consistent supply-chain. And, given the cost of AAA games and time, it's only logical they pad it out with indies, and AA.

For me, the issue is not Gamepass. It's the mis-management, their games are not lacking in funding/or time but that a lot of projects are in disarray due to poor management. Also, MS need to treat their flagship titles better and hold them to a higher standard. I don't need to write anything about Halo's reveal back in 2020, Sony would've never given the greenlight to showcase the game in that state. I was also under-whelmed by many aspects on their biggest game in showcase today i.e. Starfield. I expect a certain Bethseda jank given their engine, but it's kinda shocking how little of a leap they have made when it comes character models/animations. I was listening to XCast and they were positive on the show but also mentioned how the showcase lacked a "wow" factor when showing off a game. Starfield was perfect candidate for it and it fell short.

This is a random NPC in Horizon which gives you a certain side-quest. Like, how can this be a cross-gen game and be of this quality while main characters in MS flagship title which is next-gen only look like how we saw today? I feel that's a bigger problem, despite throwing ludicrous amounts of money, MS aren't seeing the same return on their investment as Sony is.


Yes, Sony has some really high quality devs. We all know that.
Pulling some random NPC screenshot to somehow give you a console war win is stupid.
You are comparing a Bethesda game, who arnt known for mind blowing graphics, to one of Sony's main studios known for graphics.
It's the scope of Starfield that is it's selling point. No Sony game has the same depth and scope as Starfield. People will spend hundreds of hours playing Starfield, compared to the 6 to 8 and done of most game campaigns.

Id is the equal of any Sony first party for graphics tech. Hellblade 2 looks as impressive as any Sony game shown thus far. Turn 10 and PG both have shown better graphics than PD.
Infinity Ward, Machine Games and Tryarch all trounce Bungie and every other Sony shooter.
I wonder why you didn't compare any of those games?

Both Sony and MS have amazing in house studios. Sony and MS both have different strengths and weaknesses in their portfolios.
Sony has the best third person action games. MS has the best racing, FPS and WRPGs.
It's this differences that make it interesting between the two. Would you want them to both have the exact same types of games?
Would you want to see the exact same type of art style?
Why you would care so much about a game you won't have the ability to play on your PS5 is interesting.
I don't have a PS5 at this point, so I won't be playing GOW any time soon. However you won't find me going into GOW threads saying that it looks disappointing, or saying it's a lazy DLC game.
Why would I worry about GOW?
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I'm starting to think I may have watched the wrong stream.

What an odd thing to wish for. I mean, yeah, dont re-subscribe if you are personally disapointed, but is there any point going beyond that?
Its called holding MS feat to the fire. They will see dwindling dollar signs. Instead of saying, "yeah developers take your time, you'll get it right eventually" Go to them and say "get your shit together" so we can have games to put on Gamepass. It's pathetic how bad MS has done on this.
 

Gravemind

Member
Frankly, I am at a loss for words. MS has a huge problem of overpromising/overhyping and underdelivering. Sony on the otherhand has a problem of NO promising/NO talking and delivering very mediocre shows. BUT...when all is said and done, I know that Sony is going to give me exclusives to be excited about.

I know God of War is coming, I knew Horizon Forbidden West was coming. I knew Ratchet and Clank was coming.... Sony has had something BIG lined up multiple times every year and for the most part those games delivered and were solid.

Sony's showcases have been just as bad if not worse than Microsoft's, let's not sugar coat it. Overhyping/underhyping is completely irrelevant to the true quality of the showcase, and doesn't really effect the quality whatsoever.

Both companies have the same filler/indies/3rd party stuff anyway. They show one or two big games and the rest is smaller stuff. It's the same level and anyone who says otherwise is fanboying.
 

Nico_D

Member
I don't understand the obsession for AAA. Like being AAA is any guarantee of quality. Being an indie title more often is.

I have gotten bored of both and loved more but tbh, last few years AA games have given me experiences AAA titles don't.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yes, Sony has some really high quality devs. We all know that.
Pulling some random NPC screenshot to somehow give you a console war win is stupid.
You are comparing a Bethesda game, who arnt known for mind blowing graphics, to one of Sony's main studios known for graphics.
It's the scope of Starfield that is it's selling point. No Sony game has the same depth and scope as Starfield. People will spend hundreds of hours playing Starfield, compared to the 6 to 8 and done of most game campaigns.

Id is the equal of any Sony first party for graphics tech. Hellblade 2 looks as impressive as any Sony game shown thus far. Turn 10 and PG both have shown better graphics than PD.
Infinity Ward, Machine Games and Tryarch all trounce Bungie and every other Sony shooter.
I wonder why you didn't compare any of those games?

Both Sony and MS have amazing in house studios. Sony and MS both have different strengths and weaknesses in their portfolios.
Sony has the best third person action games. MS has the best racing, FPS and WRPGs.
It's this differences that make it interesting between the two. Would you want them to both have the exact same types of games?
Would you want to see the exact same type of art style?
Why you would care so much about a game you won't have the ability to play on your PS5 is interesting.
I don't have a PS5 at this point, so I won't be playing GOW any time soon. However you won't find me going into GOW threads saying that it looks disappointing, or saying it's a lazy DLC game.
Why would I worry about GOW?
Because those games have all been on Sony consoles.....We have yet to see what MS umbrella will do those studios. Look at Rare.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
that kind of mentality is how we get another cyberpunk but go off ig
That kind of mentality has worked wonders for Sony. They have had multiple exclusives ready for release in the past few years. Multiple. That mentality has worked. So yes, it CAN work. MS needs to learn to give these studios some sort of leash and hire a competent game drirector, cuz Phil Spencer and Matt Booty aint it.

Serious question: how many exclusives has Sony put out since we got next gen consoles compared to MS? Aside from Halo Infinite (which had a rather tumultuous development in typical MS fashion) Im trying to think what was the last truly huge sale setting game, aside from Halo Infinite in the last 3 years. Gears 5 and Forza so far are what come to mind.
Meanwhile, since 2019 Sony has put out Death Stranding, The Last of Us Part 2 (I didn't love the game), Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman Miles Morales (small game to be fair), Demons Souls, Returnal (never played it!), Ratchet and Clank, Horizon Forbidden West, Gran Turismo 7 (my least favorite Sony exclusive, Forza is IMO better). Not mention Deathloop, which I enjoyed and look forward to people playing it on Gamepass.

No, there is a correct way to do game development. Sony, while not without their delays from time to time always has something big to deliver at times when they need it.

I do hope that MS, get's there I really do. They have some attractive IPs that can really blow the doors off, IF they can put competent people in charge to develop them.
 

Jaybe

Member
Gamepass being the priority focus now for Xbox most assuredly affected what we were presented today and I would say it was partially detrimental to the showcase. About 5 to 10 of the games likely would not have made the cut if not for MS paying for them to be on game pass day one and looking to make the most of their spend by advertising it. I suppose that if there is an amazing or innovative AA or AAA third-party/indie game, if they didn’t take MS’s check for game pass they aren’t getting the airtime or visibility, which is a shame to be honest. Game pass sub growth is MS’s executives key bonus metric for gaming, and the outcome from that incentive structure is what we are seeing.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Sony's showcases have been just as bad if not worse than Microsoft's, let's not sugar coat it. Overhyping/underhyping is completely irrelevant to the true quality of the showcase, and doesn't really effect the quality whatsoever.

Both companies have the same filler/indies/3rd party stuff anyway. They show one or two big games and the rest is smaller stuff. It's the same level and anyone who says otherwise is fanboying.
You've criticized Sony's shows, which I've agreed with you on. They've sucked. But you didn't say anything about this part that I have highlighted which is kind of why Sony ultimately gets a pass on shitty shows and something that MS has to show me they can get on the ball with.
Frankly, I am at a loss for words. MS has a huge problem of overpromising/overhyping and underdelivering. Sony on the otherhand has a problem of NO promising/NO talking and delivering very mediocre shows. BUT...when all is said and done, I know that Sony is going to give me exclusives to be excited about.

I know God of War is coming, I knew Horizon Forbidden West was coming. I knew Ratchet and Clank was coming.... Sony has had something BIG lined up multiple times every year and for the most part those games delivered and were solid.
 
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12Dannu123

Member
Typical Sony fan boys with their delusional takes. The reason why they're whinning now is because PlayStation is increasingly loosing any unquie value for its ecosystem other than single player cinamatics.
 

Jerm411

Member
Typical Sony fan boys with their delusional takes. The reason why they're whinning now is because PlayStation is increasingly loosing any unquie value for its ecosystem other than single player cinamatics.
Trying to dunk on fanboys with delusional takes and follow up with a delusional fanboy take….

Well done.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
That kind of mentality has worked wonders for Sony.
so many wonders infact that GOW 2 is coming out 4 years after the first, TLOU's sequel came out 7 years after the first, Ratchet 2016's sequel came out 5 years after the first (Ratchet 1 to going commando in comparison only took a YEAR) and Spiderman's sequel is (i assume) coming out 4-5 years after the first (miles morales is a standalone DLC, it really doesn't count)
Sony's games take time, a LOT of time to make. And guess what they pad out the downtime with.... That's right, indie and AA.
It's why games like Kena, Sifu, Stray, and Returnal exist. Hell, i'd go even as far to say that sony really doesn't have that many first party exclusives developed in house, and most of what they're known for is basically just contract deals from other companies to keep their shit away from Xbox and Nintendo.
Rushing games to get it out on a deadline is how we get shit like cyberpunk, the current state of Sonic the Hedgehog, fallout 76, Anthem, No man's sky (at launch), and countless fucking examples i can list. If xbox adopted this strategy of pumping out AAA games every year the console would be in a far far far fucking worse state than it is currently.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
I don't understand the obsession for AAA. Like being AAA is any guarantee of quality. Being an indie title more often is.

I have gotten bored of both and loved more but tbh, last few years AA games have given me experiences AAA titles don't.
I think it depends on what you grew up playing. A lot of us in our 30s today grew up playing AAA games like Half Life , Tomb Raider 2, MGS1, FF7, RE2 which changed AAA gaming forever. Before that, AAA meant Crash, Mario, Contra and other 2d side scrollers. Once those AAA games came out, we grew out of those smaller titles and waited for MGS2, GTA3, Halo, Half Life 2 and FFX to take us to the next level. We saw Starfield today and if it wasnt for the massive success Morrowind had on the original Xbox, who knows if the series would be as big today.

For better or worse, AAA games is why an entire generation of gamers chose to buy Xbox and Playstations gen after gen. Especially after Nintendo abandoned them from the Wii onwards. The smaller experimental games fans and indie fans went to Nintendo consoles and handhelds. This IS the audience Sony and Microsoft have cultivated. Their promise was 4-5 AAA games every year on xbox. Two years ago. And now we are hungry, if not starving after 2 years of cross gen AAA games. The last thing we want is cross gen indie games.

 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
I think Microsoft currently leans on Game Pass as a crutch while they wait for all of their acquisitions to start pumping out exclusives. I liked Gears whatever and Forza and Halo and the flight simulator same as everyone else, but it feels like an outlier to have put out so few good exclusives in the past eight-ish years. Without Game Pass Microsoft is barely more than a hardware producer this gen and the last.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
so many wonders infact that GOW 2 is coming out 4 years after the first, TLOU's sequel came out 7 years after the first, Ratchet 2016's sequel came out 5 years after the first (Ratchet 1 to going commando in comparison only took a YEAR) and Spiderman's sequel is (i assume) coming out 4-5 years after the first (miles morales is a standalone DLC, it really doesn't count)
Sony's games take time, a LOT of time to make. And guess what they pad out the downtime with.... That's right, indie and AA.
It's why games like Kena, Sifu, Stray, and Returnal exist. Hell, i'd go even as far to say that sony really doesn't have that many first party exclusives developed in house, and most of what they're known for is basically just contract deals from other companies to keep their shit away from Xbox and Nintendo.
Rushing games to get it out on a deadline is how we get shit like cyberpunk, the current state of Sonic the Hedgehog, fallout 76, Anthem, No man's sky (at launch), and countless fucking examples i can list. If xbox adopted this strategy of pumping out AAA games every year the console would be in a far far far fucking worse state than it is currently.
Bullshit. No. Sony properly manages their studios so that all their developers can have a steady stream of games coming. They have a new exclusive ready to go roughly every 3-6 months. Some a little longer. Don't believe me, look at the list of AAA games since 2015. Multiple AAA titles. A few years they more than 2.

In the past 7 years what is the longest wait between big AAA Sony exclusives? For the record, I am not saying that all of these have been great or outstanding but they have been released
2015: Bloodborne, The Order 1886, Uncharted Collection
2016: Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4
2017: Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2 (OK, is this really worth mentioning)
2018: God of War, Spiderman, Shadow of the Colossus
2019: Death Stranding, Days Gone (weakest year IIMO)
2020: Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Miles Morales (does this count?), Demons Souls
2021: Returnal, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Deathloop (does this count? You be the judge!)
2022: Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us remake and maybe God of War.

Debate the quality of those games all you want, but Sony knows how to manage their studios and get stuff released. MS has not shown that, with the exception of The Coalition, Turn 10 and Playground to have anywhere within a light year of that kind of output. I'd be extremely happy if MS can get into a steady stream of 2 AAA outputs every year.
 
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RPS37

Member
Go play tunic for free because of GP and try to tell me that indie games are shovelware that are hurting MS.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Go play tunic for free because of GP and try to tell me that indie games are shovelware that are hurting MS.
They're hurting MS because they're not AAA games that people are expecting. AAA games seems be an allergy for MS. I won't call it shovelware because I have no doubt that those games are good for what they are, but Sony aint losing sleep over them, I can tell you that much.
 

Fbh

Gold Member
I didn't think this was hard to sit through at all. It had a nice mix of bigger budget games, mid tier ones and Indies, and it did a great job of selling the tremendous value of Gamepass.

Focusing on the next 12 months was nice too. I thought this showing was miles better than the one they had last year which was mostly CG trailers for shit coming in several years.

But I do agree their showings could be even better if they allowed for a couple of big third party reveals that aren't coming to Gamepass
 

Kacho

Member
My issue with Xbox’s over reliance on indies is that they start looking the same to me after a while. It’s like, I like eggs but I don’t need 10 in one sitting. Less is more you know what I mean?

Since Microsoft continues to wait on their studios to deliver high quality AAA games they need content for Game Pass and this is their only option.
 

ZehDon

Member
I don't understand the obsession for AAA. Like being AAA is any guarantee of quality. Being an indie title more often is.

I have gotten bored of both and loved more but tbh, last few years AA games have given me experiences AAA titles don't.
Hit the nail on the head. If not for Gamepass, I'd never have played games like Sniper Elite, Carrion, Vampire Survivors, Spirit Farer, Mindscanners, or Shipbreaker - games that I adored far more than the most recent Final Fantasy, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Battlefield, or Halo.

... Debate the quality of those games all you want, but Sony knows how to manage their studios and get stuff released. MS has not shown that, with the exception of The Coalition, Turn 10 and Playground to have anywhere within a light year of that kind of output. I'd be extremely happy if MS can get into a steady stream of 2 AAA outputs every year.
I think you've got a solid critique frankly, but you're presenting it hasher than it warrants on the back of this show, in my opinion. Sony's been managing their first party studios pretty well since they hit their stride during the PS4 era. They rule the console space for a reason: their studios deliver, year after year. However, 2018 was the year Phil got Xbox out from under the thumb of corporate. They've had releases, and even some GOTYs, since then. But - the big move was expansion: Bethesda, and soon to be Activision Blizzard, joined the fray, giving Xbox the studios it didn't have before to actually output more high quality titles. We're seeing the first of that with Starfield. I'm tired of "wait for next year" as much as the next bloke, but everything we saw isn't arriving on some nebulous concept of "next year". It's arriving "this year", if we start the clock today. Xbox, effectively, asked for one year to prove itself. Given their proposed slate - Forza, Scorn, Starfield, Redfall, Diablo IV - covers the next twelve months, I'm happy to give them the opportunity. It's their game to lose.
 

Robb

Gold Member
Not for me, GamePass is probably the best thing about these shows for me. But then again, I only play using GamePass on Xbox.

Would definitely have liked to see more AAA titles at the show though. But I think the main ‘issue’ was their focus on games coming within a year and the length of the show. I feel like they could’ve cut a lot of stuff from that showcase..
 

element

Member
Yes. I personally would like to have them split external GamePass games to promote the value of GamePass and then have 25 to 30 mins on what Xbox Studios are doing.

It isn't hurting Xbox, as GamePass is an incredible value, but I want more megaton reveals. Some people really liked the "12 months" limitation, but I'd honestly like to see them go with what Diablo is doing and give updates like quarterly or twice a year. Give me something on Hellblade 2, give me something on Fable. Give me something about Everwild. Tell me Compulsion is working on something neat. After four years give me something about Perfect Dark from The Initiative. Nothing from ID. Nothing from Tango. Nothing from MachineGames. Nothing from The Coalition. Nothing from Roundhouse Studios. No updates on Contraband. No updates on Project Dragon (IO Interactive title).

Much of the GamePass stuff was neat, but a lot of it fell flat TBH.
 
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