• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Is Gamepass hurting Microsoft showcases?

so many wonders infact that GOW 2 is coming out 4 years after the first, TLOU's sequel came out 7 years after the first, Ratchet 2016's sequel came out 5 years after the first (Ratchet 1 to going commando in comparison only took a YEAR) and Spiderman's sequel is (i assume) coming out 4-5 years after the first (miles morales is a standalone DLC, it really doesn't count)
Sony's games take time, a LOT of time to make. And guess what they pad out the downtime with.... That's right, indie and AA.
It's why games like Kena, Sifu, Stray, and Returnal exist. Hell, i'd go even as far to say that sony really doesn't have that many first party exclusives developed in house, and most of what they're known for is basically just contract deals from other companies to keep their shit away from Xbox and Nintendo.
Rushing games to get it out on a deadline is how we get shit like cyberpunk, the current state of Sonic the Hedgehog, fallout 76, Anthem, No man's sky (at launch), and countless fucking examples i can list. If xbox adopted this strategy of pumping out AAA games every year the console would be in a far far far fucking worse state than it is currently.
With over 20 studios in house, there's nothing whatsoever stopping MS from launching multiple AAA games every year. This whole "they need more time" nonsense is wearing really thin. The fact that a lot of these games are so far away that we aren't even getting updates on them, years after they were announced, is a problem. There's a difference between not rushing a game and simply not launching anything. For a major platform holder to go 18 months between major launches is just mismanagement 101.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Bullshit. No. Sony properly manages their studios so that all their developers can have a steady stream of games coming. They have a new exclusive ready to go roughly every 3-6 months. Some a little longer. Don't believe me, look at the list of AAA games since 2015. Multiple AAA titles. A few years they more than 2.

In the past 7 years what is the longest wait between big AAA Sony exclusives? For the record, I am not saying that all of these have been great or outstanding but they have been released
2015: Bloodborne, The Order 1886, Uncharted Collection
2016: Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4
2017: Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2 (OK, is this really worth mentioning)
2018: God of War, Spiderman, Shadow of the Colossus
2019: Death Stranding, Days Gone (weakest year IIMO)
2020: Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Miles Morales (does this count?), Demons Souls
2021: Returnal, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Deathloop (does this count? You be the judge!)
2022: Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us remake and maybe God of War.

Debate the quality of those games all you want, but Sony knows how to manage their studios and get stuff released. MS has not shown that, with the exception of The Coalition, Turn 10 and Playground to have anywhere within a light year of that kind of output. I'd be extremely happy if MS can get into a steady stream of 2 AAA outputs every year.
Just a couple of corrections:

2015: BB, Order, Until Dawn
2017: Horizon, Uncharted Lost Legacy, GT Sports, Knack 2
2018: SOTC, GOW, Detroit, Spiderman
2020: FF7, TLOU2, GoT, Demon Souls, Miles

I think games like Deathloop, Godfall, and Ghostwire Tokyo count because Sony saw that they didnt have enough AAA titles so they paid third parties to try and get some. I hate moneyhats, but the fact that they went out and spent that money knowing they only had 2 exclusives last year and only one true next gen game at launch, shows me that they arent shy about spending big money on AAA exclusives while MS is wasting it on these smaller titles no has even heard of. Games like Guardians, RE8, next year's RE4 remake, The Quarry, Avatar and Elden Rings are the kind of AAA titles MS needs to pay out of its ass for in years where they only have 2 AAA exclusives like sony did last year. The only difference is that MS can afford to thanks to their massive 25 million Gamepass userbase. Smaller than Sony's 20 million PS5 userbase.

That said, I am not a fan of Sony's management of these studios. Their decision to make GT7, HFW, Miles, and GOW last gen has left them exposed. These are AAA games that arent doing anything even remotely next gen enough to tax the fancy new CPU, IO and GPU Cerny has put in the PS5. And thats on management. i highly doubt the devs were the ones who decided to limit themselves to HDDs and Jaguar CPUs.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Bullshit. No. Sony properly manages their studios so that all their developers can have a steady stream of games coming. They have a new exclusive ready to go roughly every 3-6 months. Some a little longer. Don't believe me, look at the list of AAA games since 2015. Multiple AAA titles. A few years they more than 2.

In the past 7 years what is the longest wait between big AAA Sony exclusives? For the record, I am not saying that all of these have been great or outstanding but they have been released
2015: Bloodborne, The Order 1886, Uncharted Collection
2016: Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4
2017: Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2 (OK, is this really worth mentioning)
2018: God of War, Spiderman, Shadow of the Colossus
2019: Death Stranding, Days Gone (weakest year IIMO)
2020: Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Miles Morales (does this count?), Demons Souls
2021: Returnal, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Deathloop (does this count? You be the judge!)
2022: Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us remake and maybe God of War.

Debate the quality of those games all you want, but Sony knows how to manage their studios and get stuff released. MS has not shown that, with the exception of The Coalition, Turn 10 and Playground to have anywhere within a light year of that kind of output. I'd be extremely happy if MS can get into a steady stream of 2 AAA outputs every year.
Also, i think you raise a fair point, but to act like Xbox isn't getting their shit together after seeing this showcase is dumb, especially considering that their line up for 2023 gets better and better with each day. If everything goes according to plan they're gonna be stacked next year. Expecting MS to pump out ambitious crazy titles like Starfield every 2-4 years is fucking insane
 

supernova8

Member
LOL same. like 9 of the games shown there were genuinely Triple A quality and the rest was still competent enough to be worth a purchase let alone a go on GP. It feels like people watched something completely different and i tuned into a different showcase.

Except for High on Life, I cannot remember the names of any of the indie tripe they showed off. I wonder how many people could actually name 9 games that were shown without cheating and looking at the summary etc. I remember the French/Canadian woman with her cool accent but not so much the game she was representing. I can just go back and watch the Max Payne cutscenes, no need to play her 1 FPS game. Also what the fuck was that side-scrolling game near the end? Pantymate? Pedicure? Pedestrian? No idea don't care. It had no place in what I/we hoped/expected would be when we finally see an Xbox blowout of all the stuff they've been working on.

Instead we got... here's what I genuinely remember:

- "Hi I'm Sarah Bond. I don't give a shit about games but the money is great. Here's all we have for a look at all the games coming to Xbox in the next 12 months"
- Redfall - shit - is this really an Arcane game?!
- a load of other filler I can barely remember, High on Life was there somewhere.
- Finally Forza Motorsport! Looks really good but......... basically looks like GT7... Both FM7 and GT Sport came out in 2017 so what did Turn 10 do with the extra year? Environments look better than GT (fair enough) but again nothing that screams "yeah well worth an extra year"
- a load more filler... something about extra Sea of Thieves and Grounded content (does that need to be in the showcase?)
- (me) OK we're like almost an hour in and no sign of Avowed, Perfect Dark, Hellblade (already seen gameplay for this so not that bothered but still), Fable, Gears? (they did the Kojima announcement thing so don't tell me they couldn't have slipped in some gameplay from aforementioned titles even if they're still over a year out)
- OK erm... there's only about 25 minutes left.. surely something big is coming right?
- Wow Phil Spencer looks like he ate something bad and then went 10 rounds with Mike Tyson..
- Kojima: "please be excited yoroshiku onegaishimasu"
- OK here we go Starfield... let's see what all fuss was about..
- No Man's Skyrim? Seriously? Sure we shouldn't have expected anything else but this looks.............. rough. Facial animations look decent for one of these massive open world games.. 1000 planets? Can we not just to keep it to five extremely polished, handcrafted planets? Less can be more!
- Fucking hell I sat through 80 minutes of shit for an underwhelming look at Starfield. Oh well it's almost 4am better go to bed.

Funny I somehow could sense it was going to be shit as soon as they opened with Redfall and that fake-ass sassy game commentary. I hoped that shit would have died with the original Division reveal but... nope.
 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Also, i think you raise a fair point, but to act like Xbox isn't getting their shit together after seeing this showcase is dumb, especially considering that their line up for 2023 gets better and better with each day. If everything goes according to plan they're gonna be stacked next year. Expecting MS to pump out ambitious crazy titles like Starfield every 2-4 years is fucking insane

No. Rational people and people with standards don't say that someone has gotten their shit together UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER. Right now all MS has given us is TALK. WHich is all they have been giving us for years. Talk is cheap. They've been telling us, they will get it together for years, yet here we are with delay after delay and piss poor management.

I'm a high school teacher, if I've had a kid who continues to underperform and doesn't do what is expected of them, yet tells me he has changed over and over again, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. I have hopes that they will turn it around, but I don't give any benefit of the doubt until they SHOW me otherwise.

The bolded part is now where you have gone fucking insane, because Sony is doing JUST that. MULTIPLE. TIMES. A. YEAR.
Starfield is an open world game with crafting. That will likely be exceptionally well done, but titles doing just that have come from Ubisoft and multiple other publishers in plenty of time. Plenty of open world games have come out. I have little doubt that Starfield won't be outstanding, but I am not going to pretend that its the most ultra ambitious title to ever come out. So no, it is not unreasonable to expect MS to pump out ambitious titles from their MULTITUDE of studios they have acquired over the past few years.
 

coffinbirth

Member
Hahahaha, what?

Microsoft will only have ONE 1st party game releasing this year...that is a narrative adventure, other than Grounded coming out of preview, yet it doesn't even matter as I will have more games than time because of Game Pass. It's a fucking monsoon of awesome.

Without Game Pass, I'd have to look at my disturbingly large backlog until Redfall comes out NEXT YEAR.
What are you even trying to say?

What is the guy above me trying to say, lol
Some truly bad takes going on here.
 
Last edited:

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Sony is doing JUST that. MULTIPLE. TIMES. A. YEAR.
... 1000 planets of content multiple times a year? Sony's games are ambitious but they're not on that goofy scale. And almost everything Xbox has announced seems to be an extremely large game with a grandiose scale. expecting that shit to be done in half a decade is just.... Do you honestly think the studios Xbox has are capable of doing that??? That's like asking Insomniac to have the map of the new Spider man be the entire Earth.
 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Just a couple of corrections:

2015: BB, Order, Until Dawn
2017: Horizon, Uncharted Lost Legacy, GT Sports, Knack 2
2018: SOTC, GOW, Detroit, Spiderman
2020: FF7, TLOU2, GoT, Demon Souls, Miles

I think games like Deathloop, Godfall, and Ghostwire Tokyo count because Sony saw that they didnt have enough AAA titles so they paid third parties to try and get some. I hate moneyhats, but the fact that they went out and spent that money knowing they only had 2 exclusives last year and only one true next gen game at launch, shows me that they arent shy about spending big money on AAA exclusives while MS is wasting it on these smaller titles no has even heard of. Games like Guardians, RE8, next year's RE4 remake, The Quarry, Avatar and Elden Rings are the kind of AAA titles MS needs to pay out of its ass for in years where they only have 2 AAA exclusives like sony did last year. The only difference is that MS can afford to thanks to their massive 25 million Gamepass userbase. Smaller than Sony's 20 million PS5 userbase.

That said, I am not a fan of Sony's management of these studios. Their decision to make GT7, HFW, Miles, and GOW last gen has left them exposed. These are AAA games that arent doing anything even remotely next gen enough to tax the fancy new CPU, IO and GPU Cerny has put in the PS5. And thats on management. i highly doubt the devs were the ones who decided to limit themselves to HDDs and Jaguar CPUs.
You're getting an awful lot out of those titles from PS5 enhancements. Raytracing, 60 fps, faster load times are pretty big deals to most gamers.
 

DonJorginho

Member
I used to have the same mindset of you OP, but once I embraced the ingenuity of Indie games and how fun they can be as a sidepiece to AAA gaming, I really discovered countless gems.

Without Gamepass I'd never have considered playing the likes of: High on Life, Cocoon, HK- Silksong, Ravenlok, Gunfire Reborn, Benedict Fox and many many more.

I do see why some people are disappointed with less "blockbuster" games being on Gamepass than they'd like, but we all know that will come with the Activision acquisition and I currently just adore the ability to enjoy a wide array of great old and new titles, along with huge Xbox exclusives on day one, all for a small price.
 
Last edited:

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
No. Rational people and people with standards don't say that someone has gotten their shit together UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER. Right now all MS has given us is TALK. WHich is all they have been giving us for years. Talk is cheap. They've been telling us, they will get it together for years, yet here we are with delay after delay and piss poor management.

I'm a high school teacher, if I've had a kid who continues to underperform and doesn't do what is expected of them, yet tells me he has changed over and over again, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. I have hopes that they will turn it around, but I don't give any benefit of the doubt until they SHOW me otherwise.

The bolded part is now where you have gone fucking insane, because Sony is doing JUST that. MULTIPLE. TIMES. A. YEAR.
Starfield is an open world game with crafting. That will likely be exceptionally well done, but titles doing just that have come from Ubisoft and multiple other publishers in plenty of time. Plenty of open world games have come out. I have little doubt that Starfield won't be outstanding, but I am not going to pretend that its the most ultra ambitious title to ever come out. So no, it is not unreasonable to expect MS to pump out ambitious titles from their MULTITUDE of studios they have acquired over the past few years.

I'm really high right now. I just wanted to say that your post was a roller coaster of a ride. It was the highlight of my week.

*tips hat*
 

Godot25

Member
I understand MS studios are struggling to put out games, but I really dont think buying up these smaller titles is the best way to showcase Gamepass.
1. It's hard to talk about "struggle" when they have 5 first party games launching in first half of 2023 (Starfield, Redfall, Forza Motorsport, Minecraft Legends, ARC), right? Six, if we count Diablo IV. Is 2022 extremely light? Yeah. But i would not use term "struggle" when I'm watching list of games for next 12 months.
2. Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong here. Yeah. People are not subscribing to GP because of smaller titles. That's why games like Starfield exists. But they are for sure a reason why people stay subscribed when there are limited number of big titles. Am I interested in every game? Nope. But I will play the shit out of games like Somerville, Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty, STALKER 2, Atomic Heart, Warhammer Darktide, Pentiment, Flintlock, Replaced, RAvenlok, The Last Case of Benedict Fox a Cocoon.
And when you combine those two things together, you have "worth it" feeling from your subscription for next 12 months. Because if I wanted to buy all these titles separately I would be way beyond 180€ yearly price for GP.

Only thing that is currently hurting pace of Microsoft shows is that "updates for existing game" segments. I understand that Forza Horizon 5 expansion was there. But I don't understand why there was a need for Sea of Thieves Season 7 trailer, Fallout 76 The Pitt, TESO: High Isle and Flight Sim.

I think that problem with Microsoft rn is perception that they created. Because they are leaky as hell, and because they were used to announce shit way too early through CGI, now you know that they have games like Perfect Dark, Fable, Avowed, State of Decay 3, Everwild, The Outer Worlds 2, Contraband, Hellblade 2 etc. in development and you want to see them. And if you are not seeing them you tend to being like "wtf Microsoft?" even if you know that they told you that show will be about next 12 months on platform. So it is a problem, but if they stick to this format long term it would get better.
 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
... 1000 planets of content multiple times a year? Sony's games are ambitious but they're not on that goofy scale. And almost everything Xbox has announced seems to be an extremely large game with a grandiose scale. expecting that shit to be done in half a decade is just.... Do you honestly think the studios Xbox has are capable of doing that???
Yes, I do. If not, then what is the point of acquiring these studios. There is no way that they can't get 4 or 5 studios each with a 5 year development time to have a steady stream of RPG games being popped out.

As for Starfield 1000s of planets doesn't mean shit until we actually see it. These 1000s of planets are not going to be distinct individual planets with insane levels of detail.

They will likely be copy and paste at best and procedurally generated at worst. I will bet anyone money that there will be at most 20 worlds that are distinct (which is good don't take that as a negative) with 1000s (if it is really that many) of smaller worlds that have at best a copied base that serves as a place for radiant quests. I am not going to crown Starfield the GOAT until it actually gets released.

As for this comment:
And almost everything Xbox has announced seems to be an extremely large game with a grandiose scale.

Like what? What game aside from Starfield is it at this moment qualifies as extremely large on a grandiose scale. Good lord, did I miss a whole conference somewhere?!

The only other thing that could be close is Avowed, but now that the cat is out of the bag, about its rocky development (which hurts your argument that MS is getting their shit together, because it seems to be par for the course)

In closing, there is nothing wrong about being excited for the future of MS. Contrary to how it seems I have high hopes for them and want them to be successful, but it's embarrassing how they keep failing to deliver. For me to give them any credit, they actually have to release something that isn't a mess (Halo Infinite).
I'm tired of talk from MS.
 

Three

Member
For a major platform holder to go 18 months between major launches is just mismanagement 101.
You call it bad management but I call it maximising profit. What incentive is there to release big budget games frequently/timely on a service where people are ok remaining subscribed without them?

This also has an effect on a studio output internally. Does Ninja Theory need to release Hellblade now to remain afloat? There is no studio pressure to get sales since internally it doesn't matter. They get a split of that $180 per year between them regardless. Why not prolong release and keep as few people on a project as possible? It would be beneficial to the studio/IP and to MS.

MS are more concerned about IP/audience hunting, the talent hunt is secondary because keeping some big highly paid talent for long periods isn't good for gamepass' bottom line. you're not competing internally for sales. As long as the game is good enough for people to remain subbed you're ok and people seem fine with it so far. Does huge budget games released back to back that people play for a week benefit you if people are subbed regardless or does some lower cost games/live service games? Some people will never admit this but that's where xbox is at right now and Sony will be too soon enough.
 

SlimySnake

Member
You're getting an awful lot out of those titles from PS5 enhancements. Raytracing, 60 fps, faster load times are pretty big deals to most gamers.
Eh. That’s the bare minimum and hardly indicative of AAA.

AAA is literally big budget, higher production values and big scale and scope. If games are last gen 2 years into a next Gen cycle, by definition they are no longer at the peak of their graphical fidelity/production values expected from a next Gen AAA title. They become AA.

In the Other thread, we are literally talking about how tlou remake might be limited by its budget. That’s no longer AAA.
 
Last edited:

ZywyPL

Banned
They showed games that will come out in the next 12 months, that's what they could show given that criteria, GP has nothing to do with it.

I swear MS can't catch a break, whenever they show new IPs just like people want them to do, it's bad because the games are too far away, or it's a CGI. But when they show actual gameplay, and from the games that are releasing soon, it's also bad because it's not the games people wanted to see. It's like in Pokemon games - gamers use random complain - MS if confused - it's super effective!... There will be time for Hellblade, Avowed etc. relax.

And yes, the games like Hollow Knight, Cocoon, The Last Case of Benedict Fox etc. is exactly what makes GP so great, those are indeed high quality games, often higher than the usual safe copy-paste AAA titles.

Edit:
What do you know, David Jaffe just posted a vid regarding the topic:

 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I'm really high right now. I just wanted to say that your post was a roller coaster of a ride. It was the highlight of my week.

*tips hat*
I wish I was high right now. They actually drug test teachers at my school.

But MS defenders have become like battered women who have that husband come home every day promising them a full bouquet of roses the following day, but often brings home nothing each every day.
 

Varteras

Gold Member
No. Because imagine a showcase like that which DIDN'T feature a lot of Day 1 Game Pass announcements. It takes the edge off most those games being multiplatform. Makes it easier to accept not having a lot of actual exclusive content at the show. I'm not saying that to be cheeky, either. I'm just calling it like I saw it. Microsoft is trying to avoid showing us games that aren't ready any time soon. They've caught a lot of flak for that. Jeff Grubb claims that, internally, Phil Spencer was very frustrated that they kept showing CG trailers while their competitors were showing gameplay or close approximations. Better that they show us gameplay of what is ready soon enough and announce Game Pass deals than to keep showing us CG or things that are too far out. The lack of many games we've been wanting to know about being there sucks, but with them just not being ready soon, what Microsoft did was the right call. They're in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. Granted, it's their fault they're at that point. But, I think what they did was the better of the two choices.
 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I swear MS can't catch a break, whenever they show new IPs just like people want them to do, it's bad because the games are too far away, or it's a CGI. But when they show actual gameplay, and from the games that are releasing soon, it's also bad because it's not the games people wanted to see. It's like in Pokemon games - gamers use random complain - MS if confused - it's super effective!... There will be time for Hellblade, Avowed etc. relax.
MS has nobody to blame but themselves and their piss poor management of game development. For whatever reason, Phil Spencer cannot manage the studios in a way that points to a steady stream of releases like Sony can. MS does not deserve ANY breaks for that level of incompetence. Halo Infinite is a perfect example. That has to be one of the most embarrassingly mismanaged titles. Such they had to delay it a year and it still released with problems. I fear that Avowed will fall into that trap since it was nowhere to be found more or less confirming Schreirs report. How does that give you confidence in the game. Honest question.

Especially when you look at Sony's output since 2015
2015: Bloodborne, The Order 1886, Uncharted Collection
2016: Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4
2017: Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2 (OK, is this really worth mentioning)
2018: God of War, Spiderman, Shadow of the Colossus
2019: Death Stranding, Days Gone (weakest year IIMO)
2020: Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Miles Morales (does this count?), Demons Souls
2021: Returnal, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Deathloop (does this count? You be the judge!)
2022: Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us remake and maybe God of War.

Telling people to relax when MS has yet to deliver anything of value is premature. They have to earn that right.
 

yeah ok
Activate Windows...
 

coffinbirth

Member
No. Rational people and people with standards don't say that someone has gotten their shit together UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER. Right now all MS has given us is TALK. WHich is all they have been giving us for years. Talk is cheap. They've been telling us, they will get it together for years, yet here we are with delay after delay and piss poor management.

I'm a high school teacher, if I've had a kid who continues to underperform and doesn't do what is expected of them, yet tells me he has changed over and over again, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. I have hopes that they will turn it around, but I don't give any benefit of the doubt until they SHOW me otherwise.

The bolded part is now where you have gone fucking insane, because Sony is doing JUST that. MULTIPLE. TIMES. A. YEAR.
Starfield is an open world game with crafting. That will likely be exceptionally well done, but titles doing just that have come from Ubisoft and multiple other publishers in plenty of time. Plenty of open world games have come out. I have little doubt that Starfield won't be outstanding, but I am not going to pretend that its the most ultra ambitious title to ever come out. So no, it is not unreasonable to expect MS to pump out ambitious titles from their MULTITUDE of studios they have acquired over the past few years.
You act as if Microsoft hasn't released any games this generation. They have.
And they are clearly going to release quite a few more. What is you concern here? Skyrim in Space with 1,000 fucking planets isn't enough for you?

Or is this just weak ass console warring bullshit?

EDIT-
"Telling people to relax when MS has yet to deliver anything of value is premature. They have to earn that right."

Yup, console warring bullshit.
 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
You act as if Microsoft hasn't released any games this generation. They have.
And they are clearly going to release quite a few more. What is you concern here? Skyrim in Space with 1,000 fucking planets isn't enough for you?

Or is this just weak ass console warring bullshit?
WHat do you mean isn't enough for me? Is that ONE title supposed to hold me over for years? WHile Sony puts out between 2-3 AAA exclusives every year. In the last 4 years what major AAA exclusive titles aside from Gears 5, Forza and Halo Infinite has MS put out? Serious question.
As for Starfield
1000s of planets doesn't mean shit until we actually see it. These 1000s of planets are not going to be distinct individual planets with insane levels of detail.

They will likely be copy and paste at best and procedurally generated at worst. I will bet anyone money that there will be at most 20 worlds that are distinct (which is good don't take that as a negative) with 1000s (if it is really that many) of smaller worlds that have at best a copied base that serves as a place for radiant quests. I am not going to crown Starfield the GOAT until it actually gets released.

2015: Bloodborne, The Order 1886, Uncharted Collection
2016: Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4
2017: Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2 (OK, is this really worth mentioning)
2018: God of War, Spiderman, Shadow of the Colossus
2019: Death Stranding, Days Gone (weakest year IIMO)
2020: Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Miles Morales (does this count?), Demons Souls
2021: Returnal, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Deathloop (does this count? You be the judge!)
2022: Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us remake and maybe God of War.

If MS can reach HALF that level of AAA output, I'll be worshipping the ground they walk on.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Fun fact:
I've actually gotten far more use out of PC Gamepass from going back and replaying Bethesda games and earning achievements.
 

coffinbirth

Member
WHat do you mean isn't enough for me? Is that ONE title supposed to hold me over for years? WHile Sony puts out between 2-3 AAA exclusives every year. In the last 4 years what major AAA exclusive titles aside from Gears 5, Forza and Halo Infinite has MS put out? Serious question.
As for Starfield
1000s of planets doesn't mean shit until we actually see it. These 1000s of planets are not going to be distinct individual planets with insane levels of detail.

They will likely be copy and paste at best and procedurally generated at worst. I will bet anyone money that there will be at most 20 worlds that are distinct (which is good don't take that as a negative) with 1000s (if it is really that many) of smaller worlds that have at best a copied base that serves as a place for radiant quests. I am not going to crown Starfield the GOAT until it actually gets released.

2015: Bloodborne, The Order 1886, Uncharted Collection
2016: Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4
2017: Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2 (OK, is this really worth mentioning)
2018: God of War, Spiderman, Shadow of the Colossus
2019: Death Stranding, Days Gone (weakest year IIMO)
2020: Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Miles Morales (does this count?), Demons Souls
2021: Returnal, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Deathloop (does this count? You be the judge!)
2022: Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us remake and maybe God of War.

If MS can reach HALF that level of AAA output, I'll be worshipping the ground they walk on.
I think maybe you've been around idiotic high schoolers too long, you're reverting back to one. Enjoy that ignore, warrior.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
EDIT-
"Telling people to relax when MS has yet to deliver anything of value is premature. They have to earn that right."

Yup, console warring bullshit.
Im criticizing the show, I'm sorry you have to resort to claims of "console warring bullshit" to hide your inability to respond to legit criticism of the Xbox brand.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I think maybe you've been around idiotic high schoolers too long, you're reverting back to one. Enjoy that ignore, warrior.
Call me idiotic, yet you're the one who can't debate the claims. Just have to resort screaming "console warring bullshit"

Damn right I am a warrior. You won't ignore me. I'm yours and everyone else's favorite poster. Even EvilLore knows that.
 

Three

Member
I will respond to Jaffe by suggesting that it has everything to do with the business model and there is a very strong example of that: Rare.

Look at Rares output between 1994 and 2001:

Banjo-Kazooie
Killer Instinct
Goldeneye
Donkey Kong Country
Perfect Dark
Conker
Diddy Kong Racing
Battletoads

In 7 years they made all that and I'm not even listing all the sequels or smaller games within those years.

Now look at what Rare has created for MS since 2015 to now. 7 years:

Sea of Thieves
Battletoads

Now you may be asking how does a studio with that kind of output go from one extreme to the other like that. Because their business model changed. They became about GaaS, they became about subs, microtransactions and season passes. It's what they were shaped to be by management and the business model. Just like how xbox 360 avatars were making them a shit load of money too.
 
Last edited:
There is no doubt Phil Spencer and Microsoft went above and beyond securing dozens and dozens of Gamepass titles for today's showcase. However, so much of it was non-AAA stuff that it made the show almost impossible to sit through. It reminded me of those 2008 era Wii conferences that had shovelware after shovelware for their casual audience or the VGA award shows that just have random games that you would never ever want to play.

I understand MS studios are struggling to put out games, but I really dont think buying up these smaller titles is the best way to showcase Gamepass. The quality matters. People tune into Microsoft and Sony shows to see AAA games, but I feel Microsoft feels compelled to have SOMETHING to put on Gamepass every damn month since they need to ensure people stay subbed month after month. And this is the result. A lot of games that no one here would feel compelled to ever create a thread about. Not even for Digital Foundry/DJ Khaled Face offs.

I have really wanted to like Gamepass, but my worst fears are coming true. There is not a lot of AAA content for people who became Xbox fans playing Halo, Gears, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Fable... AAA stuff that we have begging for years. The average age of gamer is 33 years old. We dont want to play those quirky and charming titles. Are we still the target audience for Xbox? A lot of the games felt like they were for a far younger audience. Im glad people can have smaller games to play, but no one tunes in to conferences or subscribes to Gamepass to play these games, and yet the conference is full of them, and it's making the conference mind numbingly boring.

A 30 minute conference featuring Redfall, Starfield, Forza 8 and Diablo would've been just fine. Disappointing because of lack of Fable, Avowed, Hellblade and Perfect Dark, but these smaller gamepass titles didnt make up for the disappointment so whats the point?
what you talking about ?
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
Not in the slightest, it's the best thing in gaming.
MS has nobody to blame but themselves and their piss poor management of game development. For whatever reason, Phil Spencer cannot manage the studios in a way that points to a steady stream of releases like Sony can. MS does not deserve ANY breaks for that level of incompetence. Halo Infinite is a perfect example. That has to be one of the most embarrassingly mismanaged titles. Such they had to delay it a year and it still released with problems. I fear that Avowed will fall into that trap since it was nowhere to be found more or less confirming Schreirs report. How does that give you confidence in the game. Honest question.

Especially when you look at Sony's output since 2015
2015: Bloodborne, The Order 1886, Uncharted Collection
2016: Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4
2017: Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2 (OK, is this really worth mentioning)
2018: God of War, Spiderman, Shadow of the Colossus
2019: Death Stranding, Days Gone (weakest year IIMO)
2020: Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Miles Morales (does this count?), Demons Souls
2021: Returnal, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Deathloop (does this count? You be the judge!)
2022: Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us remake and maybe God of War.

Telling people to relax when MS has yet to deliver anything of value is premature. They have to earn that right.

So, on a good year, the biggest AAA publisher and industry leader in blockbuster games releases two AAA main first party games in a year, not dlc or remakes/collections.

Yeah, definitely feels like multiple megatons a year.
 

Wohc

Banned
2015: Bloodborne, The Order 1886, Uncharted Collection
2016: Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4
2017: Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2 (OK, is this really worth mentioning)
2018: God of War, Spiderman, Shadow of the Colossus
2019: Death Stranding, Days Gone (weakest year IIMO)
2020: Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Miles Morales (does this count?), Demons Souls
2021: Returnal, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Deathloop (does this count? You be the judge!)
2022: Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us remake and maybe God of War.
To me Deathloop counts, but remasters/remakes don't. Knack 2? Rather not. The Last Guardian? Not sure. Miles Morales? Yes, counts. But that's just my opinion.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
For whatever reason, Phil Spencer cannot manage the studios in a way that points to a steady stream of releases like Sony can.

Sony is a perfect example why MS can't catch a break - double standards/hypocrisy - you, and many many people keep forgetting how many of their games how many times got delayed. Just in the past year - Returnal - delayed, HFW - delayed by a whole year, GT7 - delayed a whole year, GoW2 - latest leaks and rumors suggest it's not gonna make it this year as well. TLoU2 is probably the game with most delays ever, and god knows when it would've launch if it wasn't for that massive leak. And whenever they show a short CGI of games that are years away, like Wolverine for example, then everyone is cheering like crazy... I think at this point people just got used to complain about MS so much that whatever they'll do people will still complain, not because of constructive criticism, but a simple habit.



This releasing day one on Gamepass in 2022 isn't hurting anyone. Maybe hurting someone who can't afford a $10 subscription.

People seem to forget that the Acti-Blizz deal is closing to and end, if it goes throughout D4 and MW2 will most likely land on GP as well.
 
Last edited:
I will respond to Jaffe by suggesting that it has everything to do with the business model and there is a very strong example of that: Rare.

Look at Rares output between 1994 and 2001:

Banjo-Kazooie
Killer Instinct
Goldeneye
Donkey Kong Country
Perfect Dark
Conker
Diddy Kong Racing
Battletoads

In 7 years they made all that and I'm not even lising all the sequels within those years.

Now look at what Rare has created for MS since 2015 to now. 7 years:

Sea of Thieves
Battletoads

Now you may be asking how does a studio with that kind of output go from one extreme to the other like that. Because their business model changed. They became about GaaS, they became about subs, microtransactions and season passes. It's what they were shaped to be by management and the business model. Just like how xbox 360 avatars were making them a shit load of money too.
That's not the only reason. Development times generally increased by a lot. Remember when Naughty Dog made three Uncharted games within 4 years? Or when Sucker Punch made three Infamous games within 5 years? Or when Guerilla made three Killzone games within 4 years? Or when Polyphony made four Gran Turismo games within 6 years? Those times are long gone and are never coming back.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
whoa. I missed this. I am intrigued. There you have it. SOmething positive from me!




Its easily overlooked by pessimists. Atomic Heart, Scorn, Warhammer Darktide, and A Plague Tale 2 all look to be quality games coming day one on a $10 subscription service. I really don't understand all of the crying. I guess I think different since I own a PS5, Switch, and PC. I'm even interested in High On Life.
 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Sony is a perfect example why MS can't catch a break - double standards/hypocrisy - you, and many many people keep forgetting how many of their games how many times got delayed. Just in the past year - Returnal - delayed, HFW - delayed by a whole year, GT7 - delayed a whole year, GoW2 - latest leaks and rumors suggest it's not gonna make it this year as well. TLoU2 is probably the game with most delays ever, and god knows when it would've launch if it wasn't for that massive leak. And whenever they show a short CGI of games that are years away, like Wolverine for example, then everyone is cheering like crazy... I think at this point people just got used to complain about MS so much that whatever they'll do people will still complain, not because of constructive criticism, but a simple habit.
But here's the thing. Delays happen, but Sony ALWAYS has a backup plan or game to release so that they are not dependent on one game. I have posted that list multiple times and won't repost it. Every year has at least 3 AAA exclusives. Some years have been better than others. 2019 was particularly weak for Sony. For the record, I have not been a huge fan of Naughty Dog's track record as of late. They IMO have been given too long a leash and released a game that needlessly polarizing. Insomniac has taken over the reigns as being the top developer for Sony and honestly it's not even close who is 2nd. And, for the most part, Sonys delays have resulted in a better product. Halo Infinite was delayed a year and STILL had issues on launch.

God of War I have no idea if it will be delayed or not. EVeryone thinks it is, but everyone also thought Demons Souls would be delayed from being a launch title given how little of it was shown. The most reliable word suggests (Jason Schreir) that God of War is still on track for November.

Quite frankly it will such if it ends up being delayed because I can't think of another game to be excited for in my favorite part of the year.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Sony is a perfect example why MS can't catch a break - double standards/hypocrisy - you, and many many people keep forgetting how many of their games how many times got delayed. Just in the past year - Returnal - delayed, HFW - delayed by a whole year, GT7 - delayed a whole year, GoW2 - latest leaks and rumors suggest it's not gonna make it this year as well. TLoU2 is probably the game with most delays ever, and god knows when it would've launch if it wasn't for that massive leak. And whenever they show a short CGI of games that are years away, like Wolverine for example, then everyone is cheering like crazy... I think at this point people just got used to complain about MS so much that whatever they'll do people will still complain, not because of constructive criticism, but a simple habit.



People seem to forget that the Acti-Blizz deal is closing to and end, if it goes throughout D4 and MW2 will most likely land on GP as well.

I'm going to play the shit out of Diablo 4. $10 dollars a month.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.


Its easily overlooked by pessimists. Atomic Heart, Scorn, Warhammer Darktide, and A Plague Tale 2 all look to be quality games coming day one on a $10 subscription service. I really don't understand all of the crying. I guess I think different since I own a PS5, Switch, and PC.

Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
Its a $15 subscription service. The $1 deals are over for people like me. My $1 deal ends at the end of June. There doesn't appear to be anyway to restart the service with the great value. If you can find some Xbox Live cards for dirt cheap you can convert some of those to Gamepass at a prorated value, but nothing remotely close to the good deal as the $1 conversion. $14.99 a month comes out to $180 per year. There are deals to be had to lower that cost, but you will have to keep an eye out for them and none will come remotely close to the stacking multiple years of Xbox Live and converting using $1.
 
Last edited:
No, Game Pass is consistently providing value to the customer so I'm not sure how that can negatively affect them. 'High On Life' was one of the best games of the show and was an independent game.

I always struggle to understand why all people want to see are AAA games. Indie games are almost always better.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
Its a $15 subscription service. The $1 deals are over for people like me. My $1 deal ends at the end of June. There doesn't appear to be anyway to restart the service with the great value. If you can find some Xbox Live cards for dirt cheap you can convert some of those to Gamepass at a prorated value, but nothing remotely close to the good deal as the $1 conversion.

You don't need the $15 dollar subscription to play any of those games. If you want to spend the extra $5 thats on you.
 
Top Bottom