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Is it wrong to tell a SO you need more from the relationship before marriage?

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Trojan X

Banned
I am moving into a new townhouse in a few weeks and I guess I'm going to do best to move on, date other people, focus on work and get my life together. I'm hurt by the fact that I have made so many attempts to explain the logic behind why I want to live together for a while before marriage and work on our relationship only to be met by intractable disagreement. I have never walked away from her. She has walked away from me so many times and she thinks just because she has met the very low bar of seeking therapy and going on meds that she is "doing all she can" for our relationship. I have been to therapy myself because I have struggled with anxiety and mild depression for years and I know how long that journey takes. You can't just take pills and go through the motions of therapy and not make any behavioral changes. So I grant that she did take some positive steps but parallel to that she is still continuing her destructive ways: smoking, drinking, not taking care of her health.


GOOD! Closure. Looks like I was right.

Glad to hear that the steps you are or going to take. Now, make sure you delete her number, remove her from Facebook. FORGET THE CHILD for she will brainwash her anyway and you are not the father (sad but true). Focus on yourself. Put everything on yourself. If she calls you DO NOT entertain her and do not feel compelled to tell her how you feel. Don't even look for her to contact you. Your future, your time, you have zero dedication, care, feelings for her. Yes, you will remain scarred and that scar will NOT go away. You sadly would need to live with it and put it away. Over time and meeting better ladies out there, you'll find that the scar of yours will get smaller and smaller and smaller. So get yourself out there. Hang out with the boys. Get girls girls and many more girlfriends "friends", and you'll realise the many things you've been missing out on because of that waste-of-time-woman who took abused you.

Good luck, JB1981. Remember, keep yourself busy, book out your time, do your favourite things, get an outlet, meet many of your friends and get many more girlfriend friends. When you do that, be happy for I'm sure people will be jealous of your insanely positive Facebook highlights., and hopefully, you will find someone that loves you for YOU and don't carry a BS package. No more being pussy whipped, please. haha.
 

etrain911

Member
I know the advice here has been unanimous that I should run away from this girl but I'm still kind or reeling over how things have unfolded. Just last week we spent two days together, had sex multiple times (without protection) and I spent some time watching her daughter. Now I notice today that she has defriended me on FB and I believe she has blocked my calls because I still have some belongings at her house that I need but my calls just keep going right to voicemail. I'm pretty upset, I know the best thing for me would be to put everything behind me but it's fucked up that this woman can't even be an adult and talk to me

What is at her house? Do you have any mutual friends that you can ask to grab it for you? I'm not about to chastise you for having unprotected sex, you probably already know it was a bad idea just by typing it out. It is hard to cut and run after 3 whole years of investment, I get that, but it is the right thing to do. I am proud of you, OP. Now, don't let yourself get sucked back into it, and don't refuse protection again, especially if this time doesn't end up being the one where you break up. Hit the gym, hang out with friends, anything and everything you suggested to her are things you should go out and do.

EDIT: Just noticed that OP updated. Good job, man. I am proud of you, dude. Again: hit the gym, hang out with friends, develop some new hobbies, explore some things you never thought to explore before: hiking, rock climbing, yoga, learning magic, or speed-reading, getting into dancing, or cooking. You can do it.
 
I am moving into a new townhouse in a few weeks and I guess I'm going to do best to move on, date other people, focus on work and get my life together. I'm hurt by the fact that I have made so many attempts to explain the logic behind why I want to live together for a while before marriage and work on our relationship only to be met by intractable disagreement. I have never walked away from her. She has walked away from me so many times and she thinks just because she has met the very low bar of seeking therapy and going on meds that she is "doing all she can" for our relationship. I have been to therapy myself because I have struggled with anxiety and mild depression for years and I know how long that journey takes. You can't just take pills and go through the motions of therapy and not make any behavioral changes. So I grant that she did take some positive steps but parallel to that she is still continuing her destructive ways: smoking, drinking, not taking care of her health.
Good. Trust me, it's not impossible to have a loving stable relationship between like-minded people.
Too many people are in unhappy relationships as it is.
Don't think that "every relationship has its ups and down" means that every relationship is a dramatic mess most of the time.
 
Take this time away to love yourself, OP.

Treat yo self and focus on the future being much brighter. That woman was very toxic for you and while you can embrace those memories you made together and accept how she was a positive thing to happen to you for personal growth; do not linger on the negatives from this. You will be okay. Take it day by day and do what makes you happy.
 

Keri

Member
We have been together for 3 years and we never used any form of birth control. I always pulled out and never had a problem but more recently I have finished in her. Maybe I am just as crazy as she is.

I have never walked away from her. She has walked away from me so many times...

OP, it sounds like you've been subconsciously trying to find a way to make her stay with you, which isn't cool or healthy. You don't play around with birth control like that, unless some part of you actually wants a child. A child isn't going to keep her from leaving you again and it's not going to create a suddenly happy family. And, unfortunately, now you've made it impossible to make a completely clean break, because there's a chance she'll get pregnant and need to contact you. If you avoid a pregnancy this time around, you need to get your head straight - either cut ties completely or, for the love of god, wear protection.
 
Bail. Bail. Bail. Do not even entertain the thought of marriage. Marriage doesn't fix your relationship problems. In fact it just magnifies them.
 
I am moving into a new townhouse in a few weeks and I guess I'm going to do best to move on, date other people, focus on work and get my life together. I'm hurt by the fact that I have made so many attempts to explain the logic behind why I want to live together for a while before marriage and work on our relationship only to be met by intractable disagreement. I have never walked away from her. She has walked away from me so many times and she thinks just because she has met the very low bar of seeking therapy and going on meds that she is "doing all she can" for our relationship. I have been to therapy myself because I have struggled with anxiety and mild depression for years and I know how long that journey takes. You can't just take pills and go through the motions of therapy and not make any behavioral changes. So I grant that she did take some positive steps but parallel to that she is still continuing her destructive ways: smoking, drinking, not taking care of her health.

I'm glad you've managed to move on from all of this. The whole thing was so destructive for both of you and getting married isn't a fix. Hopefully you'll be ok now and can find a more stable and healthy relationship.
 

JB1981

Member
I'm glad you've managed to move on from all of this. The whole thing was so destructive for both of you and getting married isn't a fix. Hopefully you'll be ok now and can find a more stable and healthy relationship.

Mentally I have not moved on at all. I'm sad as fuck today. I want to drive to her house and talk to her.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
She should be getting her period like today so I guess if I hear from her in a few days it might be because she's pregnant

Do not, NOT fall for her just telling you she is possibly pregnant.

If she tells you this, go see a doctor immediately and get a test done.
 

JB1981

Member
Do not, NOT fall for her just telling you she is possibly pregnant.

If she tells you this, go see a doctor immediately and get a test done.

During one of our more recent breaks she had sex with another guy. I had sex with another girl as well so if she is pregnant I will absolutely ask for a paternity test

Just want you to know that I did update the OP with more context. Hope you guys don't think I'm full of rich, creamy shit
 

Trojan X

Banned
Mentally I have not moved on at all. I'm sad as fuck today. I want to drive to her house and talk to her.
You need to say to yourself, "goodbye and please, don't come back." It won't heal you but it will give you the mental courage to take a step forward in moving away from her. Right now you are still weak towards her and will continue to be that way if you don't do your best on focusing on others including yourself. Please read my previous post on all the things you need to do.

Oh yes. This is super important. When you do meet someone else, what ever you do, do NOT compare. Comparing means you are looking back and you mustn't do that.
I hope you are taking notes because it sounds like you need to. I'm not perfect but i know what helps.
 
If you don't feel the love that you need to feel good in the relationship than that relationship isn't for you. Break up, go to the gym, try to improve yourself, try to find things to feel good about, and move on.
 
T

Transhuman

Unconfirmed Member
If you don't feel the love that you need to feel good in the relationship than that relationship isn't for you. Break up, go to the gym, try to improve yourself, try to find things to feel good about, and move on.

Nah, JB1981 is already fit as fuck.
 

T-0800

Member
Big edit:

Don't make the mistake of thinking that problem x won't be a problem once you're married. A great marriage needs a a great foundation.

I've seen too many people end up divorced and everyone of them had some sort of problems before they got married. Reading what you have to say my advice would be to move on. This will sound terrible but you'll either end up divorced in 5 years or stuck in a horrible marriage based on the inforamation in your OP.
 
Shouldn't have given her another chance after catching her with her ex. Bail bail bail!

Plenty of good women out there that will treat you right OP
 

Shredderi

Member
Stop hating yourself so much that you think this woman is what you deserve. This relationship is wrecking you emotionally. This is not what love looks like. It seems like you're afraid to end the relationship because you think that you won't find someone else and it's better to be in a bad relationship than to be in no relationship at all. Not true. Better to be alone and lonely than to be in a clusterfuck like the one you have been in recently. This is one of those tragic things where even if we don't know you personally, it's clear as day to everyone on the outside that the whole thing is a trainwreck yet the person inside it is so clouded with clustefuck of emotions that he/she can't see it. If only you could detach yourself from this situation for a moment and look at it from the outside, you would think "what the fuck is that guy even doing at this point?". Good luck OP, I hope your attempt to distance yourself from this troubled woman is a succesfull one, as I hate to see people victimize themselves like this.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
From experience, if you see red flags early on, its a sign to move on.

As someone that overlooked red flags left n right early on, its a mistake I regret to this day.
 

JB1981

Member
So I saw her last week. I went to her house to talk and she if there was the remote possibility of her maybe changing her mind. We talked but the conversation didn't really go anywhere at all. I've also had this feeling that she has been seeing someone so that night I asked her and she told me in a very convincing way that she wasn't. I ended up stayihg the the night. We watched a movie, she made me some food, we had sex, cuddled in bed a little and that was that. The next day she texts me while I'm at work saying that she should not have had me stay over, just makes things confusing and that her feelings about marriage have not changed.


I moved into my new place today, was missing her a little so I sent her a text telling her that I missed her and loved her. She tells me that it's too late. I say why is it too late and she says that she is seeing someone. Eh whatever. I'm an idiot for even going there. Don't even believe her anyway.
 

Hazmat

Member
I'm sorry she keeps jerking her around, it's tremendously painful and happens to a lot of people at least once. Learn from this, break the cycle, and don't ever talk to her again.
 

DeVeAn

Member
Don't sacrifice your happiness. So many flags. I mean she slept in the baby daddy's bed but didn't do anything? Nope. Then you moved out of a awesome bill less home to attract her?

I'm just saying that you should not make so many sacrifices for someone won't change. You tried now time to move on. Good Luck.
 

jb1234

Member
So I saw her last week. I went to her house to talk and she if there was the remote possibility of her maybe changing her mind. We talked but the conversation didn't really go anywhere at all. I've also had this feeling that she has been seeing someone so that night I asked her and she told me in a very convincing way that she wasn't. I ended up stayihg the the night. We watched a movie, she made me some food, we had sex, cuddled in bed a little and that was that. The next day she texts me while I'm at work saying that she should not have had me stay over, just makes things confusing and that her feelings about marriage have not changed.


I moved into my new place today, was missing her a little so I sent her a text telling her that I missed her and loved her. She tells me that it's too late. I say why is it too late and she says that she is seeing someone. Eh whatever. I'm an idiot for even going there. Don't even believe her anyway.

She's made her choice. This time, don't let her come crawling back to you.
 
OP. NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER try to date a girl with a child because she will never ever put you first. You are only going to be her second or maybe third option and you want no part of it. The way you can do it is if you already have a child with someone else besides that don't fall into these types of women because their child is always going to be ahead of you and you are always going to have to deal with the baby daddy problems that comes along and you don't want to deal with any of it.
 

cornerman

Member
So I saw her last week. I went to her house to talk and she if there was the remote possibility of her maybe changing her mind. We talked but the conversation didn't really go anywhere at all. I've also had this feeling that she has been seeing someone so that night I asked her and she told me in a very convincing way that she wasn't. I ended up stayihg the the night. We watched a movie, she made me some food, we had sex, cuddled in bed a little and that was that. The next day she texts me while I'm at work saying that she should not have had me stay over, just makes things confusing and that her feelings about marriage have not changed.


I moved into my new place today, was missing her a little so I sent her a text telling her that I missed her and loved her. She tells me that it's too late. I say why is it too late and she says that she is seeing someone. Eh whatever. I'm an idiot for even going there. Don't even believe her anyway.

My guess is she's been seeing someone or left a light on for someone for awhile. You're familiar so she will come back to you if anything goes awry in her life. She knows you will be there. She gets that ' pick me up' for the moment and then she discards you after she's done. She doesn't love you. In the moment she probably has feelings wherein she feels like she cares for you, but it doesn't last outside the moment. After she's picked herself up, she regrets having been with you immediately. She'll abandon you at the first perceivable good option...maybe even for another moment with someone else. She knows you want her, that you love her, she may even wish she could feel the same way, but she hasn't, and she won't. Marriage is the worst thing you could do with girl, apart from finishing inside her...that's actually the worst. Marrying you will only make her resent you more than she already does. She'll suffocate easily because she really doesn't want to be there. She feels guilty at times because she knows she mistreats you, but she mistreats you because she doesn't respect you and she's annoyed by you and her inability to untie herself from you. Make no mistake. Any relationship with her will only get worse. Understand that there is no pathway that leads to a happy healthy relationship with her. You know this. You want it to be different. But you and your wants, and your feelings, are half of the equation...and you will never get the other half. There is nothing to talk about. There is nothing to wait on. There is no decision for her to make, or conclusion for her to come to. There is no hope for this relationship because it is already dead. All that's happening now is a slow spiral to having a kid who should not be subjected to a long since dead relationship. You know that it's dead. You see the signs. It's why you didn't jump onto marriage. It's why you got the townhouse. You are weak and that is normal... but don't be foolish with the lack of protection. You open the floodgates for abortion or single parenthood...all which can lead to the deepest depression you have ever known. Listen to Trojan X. Even if you slip into her hands occasionally, keep yourself protected and still venture out. Still seek other women. Don't put her first and don't make yourself available. Stop sharing your feelings with her and talking about resuscitating your dead relationship. If you're going to find yourself at her home, pretending it's alive and having sex, at least do yourself and her a favor and don't pretend like it's not just two people sharing a bed cause that's all that's left. If you're going to do it, so it safely and remember she will be doing it too...and already is.
 

GatorBait

Member
So I saw her last week. I went to her house to talk and she if there was the remote possibility of her maybe changing her mind. We talked but the conversation didn't really go anywhere at all. I've also had this feeling that she has been seeing someone so that night I asked her and she told me in a very convincing way that she wasn't. I ended up stayihg the the night. We watched a movie, she made me some food, we had sex, cuddled in bed a little and that was that. The next day she texts me while I'm at work saying that she should not have had me stay over, just makes things confusing and that her feelings about marriage have not changed.


I moved into my new place today, was missing her a little so I sent her a text telling her that I missed her and loved her. She tells me that it's too late. I say why is it too late and she says that she is seeing someone. Eh whatever. I'm an idiot for even going there. Don't even believe her anyway.

Why do you still have her number in your phone?

She has already sent you explicit and implicit signs that she is not interested in you anymore unless you two immediately get married. You shouldn't be calling her, texting her, going over to her house, seeing her, talking to her, etc. Delete her number, block her, and start taking it day by day with the mindset that she is totally out of your life. It'll hurt, a lot, at first, but it gets easier with every day that goes by. Then, some day in the future, you'll realize how stupid you were for almost getting yourself hitched to her drama and inevitable unhappiness.
 

AndrewPL

Member
OP: this sounds like a pretty self destructive relationship , if you hate yourself and want to be hurt...go for it?

If not, grow yourself and seek healthy relationships.
 
Big edit: 10/15/16


and work on building toward marriage, but she will not hear a word of it.

the bolded is what ruins relationship and marriages. The fact that you guys can't communicate your desires and try to understand what each one wants out of the relationship means that it's a relationship built on weak foundation. I think that she wants to get married to you because she wants to trap herself with you in a sense that she thinks you a great guy, but not the ideal type of guy she wants to live with. She just settling with you instead of letting go. A marriage and an eventual divorce is going to take every penny you saved and more. There are much better women out there!
 

BunnyBear

Member
I've read the updated OP and um, she sounds like the physical embodiment of a red flag. For your own sake, you need to move on. I don't think that's what you want to hear, but I think this will end badly for you if you pursue something that was so messed up from the start.

You both see marriage as a solution to a problematic relationship. That's asinine. You should only get married when you're so full of love and contentment with someone becsuse of a happy relationship, not to save a bad one.

Learn from it, take the positives out of (it got you out of your Mum's house) and better yourself for the next person.
 

Barzul

Member
My guess is she's been seeing someone or left a light on for someone for awhile. You're familiar so she will come back to you if anything goes awry in her life. She knows you will be there. She gets that ' pick me up' for the moment and then she discards you after she's done. She doesn't love you. In the moment she probably has feelings wherein she feels like she cares for you, but it doesn't last outside the moment. After she's picked herself up, she regrets having been with you immediately. She'll abandon you at the first perceivable good option...maybe even for another moment with someone else. She knows you want her, that you love her, she may even wish she could feel the same way, but she hasn't, and she won't. Marriage is the worst thing you could do with girl, apart from finishing inside her...that's actually the worst. Marrying you will only make her resent you more than she already does. She'll suffocate easily because she really doesn't want to be there. She feels guilty at times because she knows she mistreats you, but she mistreats you because she doesn't respect you and she's annoyed by you and her inability to untie herself from you. Make no mistake. Any relationship with her will only get worse. Understand that there is no pathway that leads to a happy healthy relationship with her. You know this. You want it to be different. But you and your wants, and your feelings, are half of the equation...and you will never get the other half. There is nothing to talk about. There is nothing to wait on. There is no decision for her to make, or conclusion for her to come to. There is no hope for this relationship because it is already dead. All that's happening now is a slow spiral to having a kid who should not be subjected to a long since dead relationship. You know that it's dead. You see the signs. It's why you didn't jump onto marriage. It's why you got the townhouse. You are weak and that is normal... but don't be foolish with the lack of protection. You open the floodgates for abortion or single parenthood...all which can lead to the deepest depression you have ever known. Listen to Trojan X. Even if you slip into her hands occasionally, keep yourself protected and still venture out. Still seek other women. Don't put her first and don't make yourself available. Stop sharing your feelings with her and talking about resuscitating your dead relationship. If you're going to find yourself at her home, pretending it's alive and having sex, at least do yourself and her a favor and don't pretend like it's not just two people sharing a bed cause that's all that's left. If you're going to do it, so it safely and remember she will be doing it too...and already is.
So many truthbombs in this post. I almost want to save it for if I even need to give or hear similar advice tbh
 

highrider

Banned
Why does she want to get married so urgently? It's not like I'm rich and can take care of all her problems? Don't you want to "get married" because you finally found someone you love? This feels like a "insert man here" thing to me

You don't have to be rich, and some people marry for more pragmatic reasons, because it is a business partnership to some extent. You are trying to quantify an unstable person's decisions, don't. The red flags are pretty clear, I think you know but something has you unable to see it.
 

cornerman

Member
Yea it was extremely insightful
I feel for you man. Just don't be under any illusions. You're going to feel like sharing a bed is better/easier than being alone for a night. Gotta remember that you're the one who's catching all the feelings though. I've seen some people who are able to detach and just keep doing the booty calls til they find either a replacement booty call or a new relationship altogether. Not sure you can do that without sucking yourself back in. Stay away and keep it wrapped up. You will get over it..kill off any and all expectations for her or a relationship.
 

Eppy Thatcher

God's had his chance.
So one time my ex crashed into someones garage and when the owners came into the garage to see wtf happened she was still pressing the gas and squealing tires and shit.

There is an analogy here i'm sure of it.

I really hope you're able to stay away from this girl man. She gonna do nothing but hurt you.
 

JB1981

Member
I feel for you man. Just don't be under any illusions. You're going to feel like sharing a bed is better/easier than being alone for a night. Gotta remember that you're the one who's catching all the feelings though. I've seen some people who are able to detach and just keep doing the booty calls til they find either a replacement booty call or a new relationship altogether. Not sure you can do that without sucking yourself back in. Stay away and keep it wrapped up. You will get over it..kill off any and all expectations for her or a relationship.

I thought a bit more about what you posted and I don't think she has left a light on for anybody else. I think she has genuinely loved me at times but she is getting older and really wants to start a family. She's 37 years old, already has one child. She had her first child with a 63 year old man, by the way. Her sisters, al six of them, are married and have kids. She desperately wants to get married, buy the house, get pregnant right away and live that life. I think she does love me and does want that life with me but she doesn't recognize or want to acknowledge that I have very real and valid reasons for why I want to put things off.
 
I thought a bit more about what you posted and I don't think she has left a light on for anybody else. I think she has genuinely loved me at times but she is getting older and really wants to start a family. She's 37 years old, already has one child. She had her first child with a 63 year old man, by the way. Her sisters, al six of them, are married and have kids. She desperately wants to get married, buy the house, get pregnant right away and live that life. I think she does love me and does want that life with me but she doesn't recognize or want to acknowledge that I have very real and valid reasons for why I want to put things off.

Good job for not getting caught up in something that youre on the fence about. You could have settled in, but that wouldn't make you happy. The void would exist. At this point find a partner with a better foundation. You'll be happier :).
 

NeOak

Member
I thought a bit more about what you posted and I don't think she has left a light on for anybody else. I think she has genuinely loved me at times but she is getting older and really wants to start a family. She's 37 years old, already has one child. She had her first child with a 63 year old man, by the way. Her sisters, al six of them, are married and have kids. She desperately wants to get married, buy the house, get pregnant right away and live that life. I think she does love me and does want that life with me but she doesn't recognize or want to acknowledge that I have very real and valid reasons for why I want to put things off.

Doesn't matter. You aren't the solution to her problems. You'll have to sacrifice a lot with no return.

I sincerely wish you the best. You will find someday someone without that baggage.
 

Saganator

Member
OP. NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER try to date a girl with a child because she will never ever put you first. You are only going to be her second or maybe third option and you want no part of it. The way you can do it is if you already have a child with someone else besides that don't fall into these types of women because their child is always going to be ahead of you and you are always going to have to deal with the baby daddy problems that comes along and you don't want to deal with any of it.

This might be good advice for someone younger than 25 or so, but after that age it's hard to meet women with no kids. I've dated a few women with kids, maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had any baby daddy drama.
 
This might be good advice for someone younger than 25 or so, but after that age it's hard to meet women with no kids. I've dated a few women with kids, maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had any baby daddy drama.
Yup, not just this... but I don't think I could respect a woman that didn't put her kid first.
 
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