Knightime_X
Member
lol yeah, that's a bit (lot) silly.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Is Modern AAA Game Development Sustainable?
- Thread starter TheBROgamer
- Start date
ShadyAcshuns
Member
It's only sustainable because indie and aa developed games keep the industry rolling along while aaa titles wallow in extended time periods to make these days. Seriously, who are these games being made for when they take multiple generations to release? Not the skeletons who played previous games in a respective series or franchises.
Last edited:
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
Nah, Nintendo's goal has never been to go toe-to-toe against Sony and Microsoft in terms of technology
Yamauchi knew this even then, when he was president
Yamauchi said:
Iwata's Blue Ocean Strategy prevented the Nintendo Switch from sinking
Satoru Iwata is known as the man behind Nintendo's "Blue Ocean Strategy" to get new people playing video games. But will this strategy keep the Nintendo Switch afloat or sink it?
www.imore.com
Nintendo is delaying its next gen console because they want to profit as much as they can with the Switch before moving on.
Especially since most games are still being released on previous gen consoles.
I assume they're gonna announce their new console at the end of this year and release it on 2024.
Laptop1991
Member
Well we have had a drought of really big games in high numbers in the last few years and they keep putting the prices up, so the jury is out for me, they need to release more triple A titles more often, smaller indie titles wont sell in high numbers and sustain the industry in the long run imo.
fart town usa
Gold Member
I'd rather see an increase in smaller budget games and then a few AAA production-value titles each generation. I guess it is that way when you include indies but major studios should make smaller things too to explore new IPs.
LazyParrot
Member
In 10 years there will be a total of two mega-studios with the means to develop AAA games up to 2032 standards. One will be owned by Sony, the other by Microsoft. Their games cost up to a billion dollars to develop and take so long to make that only two are released per generation. They have also been focus tested and streamlined to such an absurd degree in terms of content and gameplay that fanboys run into issues console warring because they legit can't tell them apart.
TheBROgamer
Banned
The N64 didn't go to toe-to-toe with PlayStation/Saturn?
The GameCube didn't go toe-to-toe with the Xbox/PlayStation?
Fact as is, one the HD generation hit Nintendo themselves said that were not ready for the transition.
The Wii which was essentially a GameCube 1.5x, allowed Nintendo to stall out the process and give them time to develop the tools and experience needed to create HD games.
Last edited:
When there will be less and less game releases some publisher will start to make AAA games on a more reasonable scale because of a lack of competition. Or perhaps the "AA" games will be the new AAA, meaning the budgets stopped growing. The model will still be fragil but more sustainable.
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
That was almost 20 years ago, OP.
Nintendo is not going to focus on photorealism because it elevates production costs with basically no return.
Look at all those AAA games with photorealisitc graphics: they're all rigid and static, almost nothing can be interacted with in a significant way and they try to hide all that behind the "cinematic" excuse.
The more photorealistic you try to make your game, the less your CPU/GPU/RAM budget is for the gameplay systems.
What is the point of building a more expensive and powerful machine if you're gonna waste all of its resources on graphics alone?
The graphics battle is a losing battle -- the companies that have the largest amount of money to burn, win.
Plus, it never ends. Year after year consumers will want the bar to be raised more and more.
The law of diminishing returns has already kicked in for these companies.
Thankfully Nintendo understands that video games are not made of graphics alone.
Without the added revenue streams, I am not sure it is and even more difficult for exclusives. I know UBISOFT isn't the best example, in fact they seem to be a terribly run and bloated company. Way too many employees and simultaneous projects in development. But they have some big money makers. Microsoft is another company that doesn't manage their projects well, because they have such deep pockets. This model doesn't work on a realistic level. Activision has a few tentpoles which can generate obscene profits. Nintendo defies expectations and isn't your traditional AAA company.
It's not looking good, for every Elden Ring or Spider-man there are plenty of underperforming titles. Look at the amount of time and risk now with big AAA titles. Unfortunately, this high-risk landscape plays right into mobile gaming. AAA gaming is headed more towards the Disney Movie mode, if we aren't there already. I think we all know there is more consolidation, fewer titles and closures incoming.
The only saving grace may be AI assistance for assets or great upscaling across the board.
It's not looking good, for every Elden Ring or Spider-man there are plenty of underperforming titles. Look at the amount of time and risk now with big AAA titles. Unfortunately, this high-risk landscape plays right into mobile gaming. AAA gaming is headed more towards the Disney Movie mode, if we aren't there already. I think we all know there is more consolidation, fewer titles and closures incoming.
The only saving grace may be AI assistance for assets or great upscaling across the board.
Andrew Evenstar
Member
just like with marriage in the western world, ain't nothin sustainable these dayz
RCU005
Member
I think games don't need to have excruciating details. While it's great to see a video about how a game has these details about ants walking in line with a leaf or stuff like that, the truth is 99.99999% of players won't even notice. Or stuff like its off camera, etc.
They should focus more on AI and physics.
They should focus more on AI and physics.
Last edited:
TheBROgamer
Banned
Nice response, I agree.
TheBROgamer
Banned
Last edited:
TheBROgamer
Banned
AI and physics are harder to sell, first thing consumers notice are graphics.
Returnal seem to be that kind of game. However that game only sold 800k copies I think.
There is an appetite for the AAA blocksbuster. From indies to AAA blocksbusters, publishers adjust according to sales and market.
Fredrik
Member
OP is saying that games take too long to make and are too iterative and safe, and you’re talking about GOWR? …which had to be delayed and is a crossgen release and fairly safe iteration of GOW2018. I enjoyed it for what it was but now I’m done with it and how long until I get another one? 3 years? 4? 5? We might actually only get one GOW this generation, maybe the next one is a crossgen release after PS6 is out.
Nah I agree 100% with the OP. Been gaming for over 40 years and it’s sad to see how the industry has evolved. There is an extreme lack of new ideas now and we’ll be lucky if we get even 2 big AAA games from each studio this generation, if we’re lucky we get one or two expansions while we wait.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Big AAA will do fine until they can’t make the money back to pay for the cost of development and then they’ll claim “gaming has changed. It’s all about multiplayer”. That’ll work until people get sick of them cloning each other’s work. I think they’ve got enough non gaming business driven people working in top paid positions to attempt this whole re-awakening of DLC driven, battle royal, service game. We’ve already seen the well known game designers leave their company. It’s only a matter of time before the rest of them do the same. Some of these games are being outsourced and they really don’t have a lot of heart to them (like we’ve read about).
In my 30+ years of gaming.. I still buy games like a lot of people on here. What I think is that the general public is getting sick of gaming or at least traditional gaming. The attempt at service games is driving investors. Big AAA is divided between developers like From Software and Square-Enix and EA/Ubisoft. Ubisoft isn’t doing as well as they wanted based on a couple threads about their output this last year. EA really dropped the ball with Battlefield. BioWare fell off the map a long time ago after a couple big games failed. Square and From are getting a lot of recognition for their efforts and they’re probably benefitting from it regardless of the dying Japanese console market. Which we all know Nintendo owns.
Bethesda has like what another couple years before the “10 year stretch of TES VI”. Bethesda is probably keeping Fallout alive somehow. Will I be dead before TES VII comes out?
In my 30+ years of gaming.. I still buy games like a lot of people on here. What I think is that the general public is getting sick of gaming or at least traditional gaming. The attempt at service games is driving investors. Big AAA is divided between developers like From Software and Square-Enix and EA/Ubisoft. Ubisoft isn’t doing as well as they wanted based on a couple threads about their output this last year. EA really dropped the ball with Battlefield. BioWare fell off the map a long time ago after a couple big games failed. Square and From are getting a lot of recognition for their efforts and they’re probably benefitting from it regardless of the dying Japanese console market. Which we all know Nintendo owns.
Bethesda has like what another couple years before the “10 year stretch of TES VI”. Bethesda is probably keeping Fallout alive somehow. Will I be dead before TES VII comes out?
Lethal01
Member
They said that about Unreal 4 and Unreal 3.
But companies always choose to work smarter and harder to beat other developers to the point they are taking giant risks with every project.
Last edited:
semiconscious
Member
agree. i think that this version of the industry isn't even satisfactory, never mind sustainable. all so i can see the individual pores on a character's face?...
thismeinteil
Member
Sure it is. If you have competent people in charge of the projects so they aren't floundering for years, racking up the cost of the game.
Fredrik
Member
Yeah and how much of those details can you actually see from a couch? And when you’re getting a bit older?
Native 4K is mostly a waste for me in the living room when sitting a couple meters from a 65” TV with gray man eyes.
I can see some upsides of high resolution and high details on PC and VR though where I’m closer to the screen and can upgrade to not get a crappy framerate.
Next thing, having a big focus on story and doing serious motion capturing with real actors etc is typical for AAA games, cost a lot I hear. But long linear games with long cutscenes and slow walking talks etc is only making it more annoying to replay. Sometimes it’s like watching a TV show, and when you’re done you just start over, right? Yeah, not happening.
Tbh I rarely touch a AAA release after I’ve seen the credits. It only happens with gameplay and exploration focused games like Elden Ring or when there is some creative mechanic like in No Man’s Sky or Minecraft, which isn’t exactly AAA.
Combining the lackluster replayability with having to wait sometimes years for the next big one is hardly ideal.
But let’s keep on praising how much the successful AAA games sold and how much we enjoyed them! * **
* after a couple patches, which arrives after we’re already halfway through.
** while we sit around for months waiting for another big release, which we finish in a couple weeks, and then we wait again.
I don’t have a solution though. More high risk AA games I guess, like Returnal. But it’s clearly hard to reach an audience, most people go for the big releases and kinda skip the rest or wait for a sale or subscription service release.
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Well, safe is making MTX and MP mode, that's just noe GOW:R nor HFW. So no, I kindly disagree with you. It takes time, but it remains forever when it's a wonderful experience.
Fredrik
Member
As someone who never play MP or buy MTX I can definitely say the problem is far bigger than that.
We get great games, occasionally, but there is very little new thinking in the AAA space. Can’t really think of anything truly new this generation, everything is an iteration of something old.
But more importantly the development time is just far too long now, unless there is a revolution through AI all studios might soon max out at 1 big game per generation.
And if they’re juggling several big IPs… Well, prepare to wait 15+ years to play another game in a long going serie. Look at The Elder Scrolls, Skyrim released on Xbox 360 in 2011…
In the AA and indie space things get more interesting conceptwise. But unless those games release through a subscription service they don’t seem to get much attention.
TheBROgamer
Banned
AAA it's in current state means to follow trends and try to appeal to everyone.
When that is the case, there will be little nothing new coming from this space.
The way I see it is that constant title releases have become less favourable because of GaaS. Ballooning cost and development time vs mtxs in a GaaS is what has created this scenario. If you create the same timeline picture for Rare today you will see it's worse than Rockstar.
There is contraction in the industry, only big known titles will survive, the smaller games will be relegated to subs. Most will slowly convert to GaaS. Bleak but that's the way the industry seems to be going in my opinion.
There is contraction in the industry, only big known titles will survive, the smaller games will be relegated to subs. Most will slowly convert to GaaS. Bleak but that's the way the industry seems to be going in my opinion.
samoilaaa
Member
for the big companies sure , games like witcher , god of war , red dead redemption , elder scrolls will always sell tens of millions of copies , but a new company trying to start with aaa games might not go so well
i think companies should do like CDPR or larian , they started with small budget and move on to bigger projects , as long as their game is great they will reach AAA
baldur's gate 3 has a budget of over 100 million dollars , thats insane considering that divinity original sin 2 had something like 5 million
i think companies should do like CDPR or larian , they started with small budget and move on to bigger projects , as long as their game is great they will reach AAA
baldur's gate 3 has a budget of over 100 million dollars , thats insane considering that divinity original sin 2 had something like 5 million