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Is the Blu-ray format dying?

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Aeris130

Member
mrklaw said:
You miss the part where studios don't want just VOD - they want retail sales too. As a consumer you might prefer to pay a couple of dollars for a rental if you'll only watch now and then, but the studios would much prefer you to pay $20+ for that.

So I think rental and ownership is here to stay for some time

No, studios want higher profits. If on-demand rentals achieves that, they'll try to go with it. Otherwise not.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
pel1300 said:
It boggles my mind that all these retards act as if blurays aren't going to lower in price like pretty much all technology...

nope, blu-ray is special in that it never ever gets cheaper to make!
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Halvie said:
how bout I want to be able to just walk into a store and buy a movie without being raped. Plus if you want Blu Ray to actually take off you can't seriously expect its entire user base to buy all their movies online.
How about $28.99?

Hint about best buy.. buy all of your movies from them online for in-store pickup. They'll never be more expensive and probably 75% of the time are actually $2-5 cheaper.

Aeris130 said:
No, studios want higher profits. If on-demand rentals achieves that, they'll try to go with it. Otherwise not.
studios want to MAXIMIZE profits. as long as there are people who want to own their movies, the studios will have to allow an option to own to get their money, and the studios are 100x more comfortable with Blu-ray than purchase-HDVOD. Yeah Blu-ray is cracked wide open, but for at least the next 1-2 years the cost of entry for piracy is still too big (BD-RE burner, $7/disc, 20-50GB available hard drive space per movie, etc). For VOD/DD, itunes purchases are already broken wide open. The second they give the option to purchase HD movies on itunes those movies are going to be ALL OVER the net.
 

Aeris130

Member
borghe said:
studios want to MAXIMIZE profits. as long as there are people who want to own their movies, the studios will have to allow an option to own to get their money, and the studios are 100x more comfortable with Blu-ray than purchase-HDVOD. Yeah Blu-ray is cracked wide open, but for at least the next 1-2 years the cost of entry for piracy is still too big (BD-RE burner, $7/disc, 20-50GB available hard drive space per movie, etc). For VOD/DD, itunes purchases are already broken wide open. The second they give the option to purchase HD movies on itunes those movies are going to be ALL OVER the net.

Like you said, profits matter (not what the actual consumer wants, unless it leads to lower profits). If [option A] yields higher profits then [option B] in the end, [option A] is what they'll go for.

If studios suspect that pushing everyone into the HDVOD model will get them more $ then having ppl buy BR discs (or use both), then they will do so. Otherwise not. And even if there will always be a group that wants solid media storage, it will come down to economies of scale to determine if that group is worth going after or not, and if BR is the best method of doing this.

As for piracy, it's not very relevant unless it turns [#A]>[#B] into [#A]<[#B], at least not from the studios viewpoint.
 

harSon

Banned
borghe said:
How about $28.99?

Hint about best buy.. buy all of your movies from them online for in-store pickup. They'll never be more expensive and probably 75% of the time are actually $2-5 cheaper.


studios want to MAXIMIZE profits. as long as there are people who want to own their movies, the studios will have to allow an option to own to get their money, and the studios are 100x more comfortable with Blu-ray than purchase-HDVOD. Yeah Blu-ray is cracked wide open, but for at least the next 1-2 years the cost of entry for piracy is still too big (BD-RE burner, $7/disc, 20-50GB available hard drive space per movie, etc). For VOD/DD, itunes purchases are already broken wide open. The second they give the option to purchase HD movies on itunes those movies are going to be ALL OVER the net.

Pretty sure you can download HD movies off the net and they're definitely not 20-50gb, Digital Distribution isn't going to make piracy more relevant since every Blu Ray that currently comes out is already being ripped and uploaded for everyone to download :lol
 

BigDug13

Member
Ferrio said:
Planet Earth 1080p version made me rethink that.

While it is true that the HD disc version of Planet Earth is incredible, it's also HD VIDEO and not HD FILM.

Bluray movies are done on FILM and do not have that same life-like pop that video based material does.

It does look much better than DVD on a large TV, but not at the prices that they want you to pay. And who wants a comedy or something like that in High Def if it costs at least $25 and not designed to be a visual spectacle?

DVD is still going to be king, while bluray sits as the videophile format like Laserdisc did for the longest time.

Sony is going to be hurt the most because they're losing a massive amount of money on the PS3 in the hopes that they make it back by having the main format for the future. That's not going to happen.

Also, I own a PS3 (bought for bluray only...do not own one game for it) as well as an HD-XA2. I was behind the HD disc formats from the start, but honestly, HD-DVD had the best possibility of being very affordable for the manufacturers (cheaper media and much cheaper to convert DVD pressing facilities to be HD-DVD capable) and cheaper for the consumers which would have helped adoption.

The only reason Bluray has a better hold than it would have is the PS3 owners already having the player. It will still be a niche market though.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Kintaro said:
Worked for DVD until the prices came down.


Um, folks weren't buying much of anything online when DVD was nascent.

I am a Blu Ray adopter, I have two players and about 80 discs. But I am sick to fucking death of fellow Blu Ray owners crowing BUY ONLINE FOOL every time somebody correctly points out that they are too fucking expensive in stores.

THEY ARE TOO EXPENSIVE IN STORES, THE PLACE MOST PEOPLE GO TO BUY THINGS.

No wonder it's a fucking niche when we're all so pathetically protective and cosseting of it. It's like anti-outcry. A better use of energy would be to continually email the manufacturers and retailers to bitch about it.

But no, we call would-be adopters ignorant and tell them they're stupid for expecting to pay a reasonable price in a normal store.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
OuterWorldVoice, I think it's perfectly relevant to point out that the discs are cheaper online, because 1)it's not as if BD discs are the only product that suffers this phenomena, a lot of stuff is cheaper online, 2) the prices online are in the territory that people are asking for right now and 3) we're no longer in the nascent days of DVD, *many* more people see online shopping as perfectly routine and safe.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to just walk into a store and buy BD movies for more acceptable prices, but I could say the same for a lot of products. These days, knowing what the alternative pricing is online, I do a lot less shopping at retail, across the board.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
kaching said:
OuterWorldVoice, I think it's perfectly relevant to point out that the discs are cheaper online, because 1)it's not as if BD discs are the only product that suffers this phenomena, a lot of stuff is cheaper online, 2) the prices online are in the territory that people are asking for right now and 3) we're no longer in the nascent days of DVD, *many* more people see online shopping as perfectly routine and safe.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to just walk into a store and buy BD movies for more acceptable prices, but I could say the same for a lot of products. These days, knowing what the alternative pricing is online, I do a lot less shopping at retail, across the board.


no u
 

pel1300

Member
BigDug13 said:
While it is true that the HD disc version of Planet Earth is incredible, it's also HD VIDEO and not HD FILM.

Bluray movies are done on FILM and do not have that same life-like pop that video based material does.

There are plenty of movies and TV shows on bluray such as I, Robot, Crank, Superman Returns, Lost, and Damages that have the life-like pop.



It does look much better than DVD on any HDTV, but not at the prices that they want you to pay.

Fixed.

And who wants a comedy or something like that in High Def if it costs at least $25 and not designed to be a visual spectacle?

Shows like The Office are great to watch in HD. Makes it feel even more like a documentary...especially on a 120 hz tv.

DVD is still going to be king, while bluray sits as the videophile format like Laserdisc did for the longest time.

Bluray will be more successful than laserdisc. Avg joe today is more aware of these things compared to 15 years ago.
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
OuterWorldVoice said:
Um, folks weren't buying much of anything online when DVD was nascent.

I am a Blu Ray adopter, I have two players and about 80 discs. But I am sick to fucking death of fellow Blu Ray owners crowing BUY ONLINE FOOL every time somebody correctly points out that they are too fucking expensive in stores.

THEY ARE TOO EXPENSIVE IN STORES, THE PLACE MOST PEOPLE GO TO BUY THINGS.

No wonder it's a fucking niche when we're all so pathetically protective and cosseting of it. It's like anti-outcry. A better use of energy would be to continually email the manufacturers and retailers to bitch about it.

But no, we call would-be adopters ignorant and tell them they're stupid for expecting to pay a reasonable price in a normal store.
That was the point.

Do you not remember how expensive DVD was in its infancy?
I remember reading articles about how it also would never take over trusty old VHS and it would be the new laserdisc of choice.

Want cheap movies in store?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13447407&postcount=417

And about two weeks ago I also remember walking into Best Buy and buying a couple movies for $14.99 each.

Sales, look for them.
 

Phntmbanana

Neo Member
I still don't think that digital distribution will ruin any industry least of all the DVD industry, but they do have to lower the prices on those Blu-Rays or I'll just keep buying DVDs
 

Meier

Member
_leech_ said:
The very first DVD I bought (T2: Ultimate Edition) cost me $40 in 2001. People are acting like DVDs were $19.99 all the time.
Again, this isn't a very relevant comparison. The difference between DVD and BR is frankly not that great to most people (don't ask me how, but it isn't). The difference between a VHS and having to rewind, etc. versus never having to concern oneself with that was WORLDS apart. If it wants to compare in the interim, the price has to be closer if not equal.
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Meier said:
Again, this isn't a very relevant comparison. The difference between DVD and BR is frankly not that great to most people (don't ask me how, but it isn't). The difference between a VHS and having to rewind, etc. versus never having to concern oneself with that was WORLDS apart.
That's still a lot of money for convenience for average folks.
And that's why it took a long time for DVD to take over VHS.

Prices drop, just not right away. Like everything else.
 

pel1300

Member
Meier said:
Again, this isn't a very relevant comparison. The difference between DVD and BR is frankly not that great to most people (don't ask me how, but it isn't). The difference between a VHS and having to rewind, etc. versus never having to concern oneself with that was WORLDS apart. If it wants to compare in the interim, the price has to be closer if not equal.

Equal?? :lol :lol :lol

The format came out only 2 years ago, it offers a massive PQ and AQ upgrade, and you think the prices should be equal to DVD?

:lol

BD prices WILL go down, just like everything else.

I don't know where you guys get this idea that they will remain $30 in store forever.
 

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
shuri said:
I watch movies on a 102 inches 1080p projector; and I don't care much about bluray. Too expensive, and I wont upgrade my giant (500+) dvds to collection. I will only upgrade a few select titles (like.. perhaps terminator 1 and 2), but eh; outside of that, regular dvds are much cheaper.

It does looks much better, but its not worth it, to be honest.


Co-sign this post with my stamp of approval.
 
Was in Blockbuster last night, they had their $249 Blu-Ray player displayed prominently when I walked through the door. I'm certain at this point that we'll see $199 players this xmas, and I don't just mean Black Friday. Players at half the price of a PS3 is very good news.

But on the other hand, there's the economy.

The timing is just horrible.

I'm concerned.
 

suffah

Does maths and stuff
isamu said:
Co-sign this post with my stamp of approval.

I had a 135" screen/projector and think at those sizes Blu-Ray is a must. I mean, it's available so why not use it?

But I also laugh at the people in this thread defending BR. Face it. The mass consumer market does not want BR. They don't care about HD. Prices are slowing down the rate of adoption but you guys need to just accept the fact that most people don't give a shit about 1080P.

Do you think DVD replaced VHS because it was higher quality? Hell no, using that logic Laserdisc would still be around.
 

Barrett2

Member
I think a lot of people are in my situation. I have an HDTV, but its only 32 inch, 1080i, and the difference between watching a Blu-Ray disc vs. a DVD on it is so negligible, I see no value in buying any Blu-Ray discs.

Maybe if I bought a 52 inch Plasma 1080p I would get value out of it, but until that day comes I won't spend a cent on a Blu-Ray movie.
 

dalyr95

Member
lawblob said:
I think a lot of people are in my situation. I have an HDTV, but its only 32 inch, 1080i, and the difference between watching a Blu-Ray disc vs. a DVD on it is so negligible, I see no value in buying any Blu-Ray discs.

Maybe if I bought a 52 inch Plasma 1080p I would get value out of it, but until that day comes I won't spend a cent on a Blu-Ray movie.

When I stuck Casino Royale in and come to that any Blu Ray the difference is crystal clear, everyone who has seen Blu Ray on my 32inch 1080i Bravia thinks so.
 
Unfortunately too many people are looking at it through a "MS (hd-dvd) vs. Sony (bluray)" prism which makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion about it.
 

Haunted

Member
Blu-Ray is still niche, but I don't see another format that's going to rival it in the near future. Digital downloads? Please. I expect BR to be the dominant disc medium in 6 or 7 years, like DVD is now.


I know that I'll jump onto BR at a similar time as I did with DVD, when the prices are down and BR drives are standard in PC sets, but the next options isn't really in play yet (which is probably later than most people here, this is a forum full of early adopters after all). >_>


suffah said:
Do you think DVD replaced VHS because it was higher quality? Hell no, using that logic Laserdisc would still be around.
Well, think that the difference between DVD and VHS was much bigger than between BR and DVD. At least that's how it's perceived by consumers.

lawblob said:
I think a lot of people are in my situation. I have an HDTV, but its only 32 inch, 1080i, and the difference between watching a Blu-Ray disc vs. a DVD on it is so negligible, I see no value in buying any Blu-Ray discs.

Maybe if I bought a 52 inch Plasma 1080p I would get value out of it, but until that day comes I won't spend a cent on a Blu-Ray movie.
Well, that too. The only thing that could really hurt BR is that regular consumers agree that DVD is "good enough".
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
lawblob said:
I think a lot of people are in my situation. I have an HDTV, but its only 32 inch, 1080i, and the difference between watching a Blu-Ray disc vs. a DVD on it is so negligible, I see no value in buying any Blu-Ray discs.

Maybe if I bought a 52 inch Plasma 1080p I would get value out of it, but until that day comes I won't spend a cent on a Blu-Ray movie.

I have a 1080i TV and the difference is definitely noticeable. DVDs, no matter how much they're upscaled and whatnot, are much blurrier than movies in HD.
 

Barrett2

Member
GSG Flash said:
I have a 1080i TV and the difference is definitely noticeable. DVDs, no matter how much they're upscaled and whatnot, are much blurrier than movies in HD.

I need to do a little side-by-side. Maybe I haven't watched enough special-effects-heavy movies via my Blu Ray player. Time for an experiment!
 

pel1300

Member
lawblob said:
I think a lot of people are in my situation. I have an HDTV, but its only 32 inch, 1080i, and the difference between watching a Blu-Ray disc vs. a DVD on it is so negligible, I see no value in buying any Blu-Ray discs.

Maybe if I bought a 52 inch Plasma 1080p I would get value out of it, but until that day comes I won't spend a cent on a Blu-Ray movie.

uh...Have you ever even tried watching a good bluray disc on your 32 inch tv?
 
Oh, another thing I think that's affecting BRD releases is the god damn lack of content and deluxe editions!

Why in the fuck should I pay $30 for a stripped down version of a movie?????? :|

Iron Man kind of set the bar for BRD releases IMO. Packed to the gills with special features, even available in funtastic cat helmet cases, and was priced fairly inexpensively the week of release on BRD.

MOAR LIKE THIS PLZ!
 

Meier

Member
pel1300 said:
Equal?? :lol :lol :lol

The format came out only 2 years ago, it offers a massive PQ and AQ upgrade, and you think the prices should be equal to DVD?

:lol

BD prices WILL go down, just like everything else.

I don't know where you guys get this idea that they will remain $30 in store forever.
BR is in a different situation than DVD was. There was no alternative to DVD when getting away from the shackles of VHS' downsides. Digital Distribution is a real threat to BR and if it wants to avoid being made irrelevant then it needs to compete with #1 sooner rather than later. This should be painfully evident.
 

Dirtbag

Member
I'm a pretty serious HD nut, but....
The jump from 720p to 1080p isn't big enough for me to justify the cost of entry for blu-ray and added costs for the movies themselves, I'm perfectly content with my Oppo up-converting dvd player, and highdef offerings on digital cable. I'm NOT content with watching movies on my game system. It has been, and always will be a hassle for me. I hated watching dvd's on my ps2 when it was my only option... and I don't expect my ps3 to be any different.. I think I only owned 3-4 dvds when the ps2 was all I had to watch them on, and don't remember buying dvd's until a year or two later when I had a standalone player.

Prices need to come down before I'd consider it. Even then, I'm more excited about the prospect of digi-downloads and where that is headed. I've already lost 1 pretty extensive dvd collection to a hurricane, I'm more then ready to kiss physical formats goodbye.
 
Anyone else in here have a Popcorn Hour media player or one of the other similar devices?

I watched a 1080p rip (4.4GB) of Kung Fu Panda on it last night and it looked.....AWESOME. :D
 

Dirtbag

Member
Spinning Plates said:
Anyone else in here have a Popcorn Hour media player or one of the other similar devices?

I watched a 1080p rip (4.4GB) of Kung Fu Panda last night and it looked.....AWESOME. :D
Nope.
I'd be careful with skirting around piracy on GAF, we have little sympathy.

Not that it couldnt be your own legal 'rip' of Kung-Fu Panda, but I've seen people banned for less.
 

pel1300

Member
Meier said:
BR is in a different situation than DVD was. There was no alternative to DVD when getting away from the shackles of VHS' downsides. Digital Distribution is a real threat to BR and if it wants to avoid being made irrelevant then it needs to compete with #1 sooner rather than later. This should be painfully evident.

You guys keep bringing up how these walmart shoppers/soccer moms only get whatever they can find in cheap walmart bins.....and don't care about the increase in quality of bluray...

yet you think these same people will be downloading HD movies for a fee?

No, these simpletons will continue to shop at walmart. They probably barely know how to check their e-mail.
 

pel1300

Member
Dirtbag said:
I'm a pretty serious HD nut, but....
The jump from 720p to 1080p isn't big enough for me to justify the cost of entry for blu-ray and added costs for the movies themselves, I'm perfectly content with my Oppo up-converting dvd player, and highdef offerings on digital cable. I'm NOT content with watching movies on my game system. It has been, and always will be a hassle for me. I hated watching dvd's on my ps2 when it was my only option... and I don't expect my ps3 to be any different.. I think I only owned 3-4 dvds when the ps2 was all I had to watch them on, and don't remember buying dvd's until a year or two later when I had a standalone player.

Prices need to come down before I'd consider it. Even then, I'm more excited about the prospect of digi-downloads and where that is headed. I've already lost 1 pretty extensive dvd collection to a hurricane, I'm more then ready to kiss physical formats goodbye.

What is the big hassle of watching movies on your ps3?

The ps3 loads the movies up faster than most stand alone bluray players.

I don't understand your logic.
 

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
Cost is the factor that keeps me from buying BD movies.

I'd LOVE to get Ratatoille, Casino Royale, Band of Brothers, and Planet Earth. But I can't find any of those for under $25 dollars. The only reason why I have ANY BD flicks at all is because pawn shops around me will sell them for about 9-12 bucks. But that's after scouring these places, because otherwise all they have is stuff like Ultraviolet, Resident Evil, and Spiderman 3. No thanks.

As long as movies are $22+ dollars per movie, I'm going to hold out. I can rent BD from Netflix, so I can get my fix that way.

pel1300 said:
What is the big hassle of watching movies on your ps3?

The ps3 loads the movies up faster than most stand alone bluray players.

I don't understand your logic.

I'd like to operate my video player with the Harmony remote that I have that controls every other device in my entertainment center. Having to operate my BD player with my gamepad IS inconvenient.
 

VPhys

Member
Onix said:
Why do many people continue to say this ... that the the jump to BD is relatively a smaller upgrade in quality?

It isn't. The quality upgrade is much more than it was from VHS to DVD. I'll enterain other points in the arguments, but the quality thing just boggles my mind.


What you just said boggles my mind.


I bought a PS3 primarily for Blu Ray and after owning one for a year and watching several BD there is no question that the jump from VHS to DVD was massive compared to the jump from DVD to Blu Ray. I'm a huge fan of Blu Ray but even I admit that it's not a big difference compared to DVD when you have a good TV and a good upscaling DVD player.
 

Dirtbag

Member
pel1300 said:
What is the big hassle of watching movies on your ps3?

The ps3 loads the movies up faster than most stand alone bluray players.

I don't understand your logic.

The remote issue, the disk swap and switching back to games, booting up to dash extra steps. I often times fall asleep to movies, so I need a good sleep feature on my player - and I always find myself falling asleep to a movie at night about mid-way .. then the next day play a game (thus taking the movie out the player) and then rarely returning to finish my movie. It's just an extra hastle when I have a dvd player sitting right next to my system, and it's just that extra layer of inconvenience that when combined with the higher cost of entry doesn't make the minimal leap of 720p to 1080p worth it to me.

VPhys said:
What you just said boggles my mind.


I bought a PS3 primarily for Blu Ray and after owning one for a year and watching several BD there is no question that the jump from VHS to DVD was massive compared to the jump from DVD to Blu Ray. I'm a huge fan of Blu Ray but even I admit that it's not a big difference compared to DVD when you have a good TV and a good upscaling DVD player.
There are very real possibilities that many people have no idea how capable a solid upconverting dvd player can be. The range in quality from up-conversion is pretty astounding. I also think that people who've had 720p offerings on digital cable for a long time now, aren't nearly as blown away by 1080p as those that haven't.
 

Draft

Member
The only dudes who maintain that DVD-Blu Ray is a bigger jump than VHS-DVD are the hardcore AV nutjobs. To the average person, going from blurry fuck, static prone VHS tapes with their rewinding and their failing and their no damn special features to DVDs was like... revolutionary. Nobody gives a fuck if a Blu Ray is technically capable of displaying 2.73 times the color of a DVD.

I prefer to buy everything in Blu Ray now, but I don't buy a lot, because they are too expensive.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Draft said:
The only dudes who maintain that DVD-Blu Ray is a bigger jump than VHS-DVD are the hardcore AV nutjobs. To the average person, going from blurry fuck, static prone VHS tapes with their rewinding and their failing and their no damn special features to DVDs was like... revolutionary. Nobody gives a fuck if a Blu Ray is technically capable of displaying 2.73 times the color of a DVD.

I prefer to buy everything in Blu Ray now, but I don't buy a lot, because they are too expensive.
This. VHS->DVD was a jump from shit to not shit. DVD->blu-ray is not, and no jump in visual quality can match the other features DVD offered over VHS such as instantly jumping to any part of the movie, extra features, and extra length on a disc vs a tape. That doesn't mean I don't stop and stare for a minute or two when walking by a $2000 tv demoing a 1080i movie at Best Buy. If I had the money I'd definitely be on that shit.

speaking of which, when do people think the price of 1080i tvs will be in the mainstream price range? Ya know, $400-500? Three years? Five years? I'm sure blu-ray players will be cheap by then.
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
demon said:
This. VHS->DVD was a jump from shit to not shit. DVD->blu-ray is not, and no jump in visual quality can match the other features DVD offered over VHS such as instantly jumping to any part of the movie, extra features, and extra length on a disc vs a tape. That doesn't mean I don't stop and stare for a minute or two when walking by a $2000 tv demoing a 1080i movie at Best Buy. If I had the money I'd definitely be on that shit.

speaking of which, when do people think the price of 1080i tvs will be in the mainstream price range? Ya know, $400-500? Three years? Five years? I'm sure blu-ray players will be cheap by then.
HDTV's can already be found under 500$ http://tinyurl.com/5dkoxv :lol Tubes have died.
 

Dirtbag

Member
demon said:
This. VHS->DVD was a jump from shit to not shit. DVD->blu-ray is not, and no jump in visual quality can match the other features DVD offered over VHS such as instantly jumping to any part of the movie, extra features, and extra length on a disc vs a tape. That doesn't mean I don't stop and stare for a minute or two when walking by a $2000 tv demoing a 1080i movie at Best Buy. If I had the money I'd definitely be on that shit.

speaking of which, when do people think the price of 1080i tvs will be in the mainstream price range? Ya know, $400-500? Three years? Five years? I'm sure blu-ray players will be cheap by then.
So here is another problem.
1080i tv is pretty much the equivalent of 720p - something you can already achieve with an upconverting dvd player.

Blu-ray's picture isn't maximized until you hit 1080p which is double that off 1080i(technically a myth, but for arguments sake the same effect)... A 1080p picture will always display smoother. Beyond that there is 1080p/24 which will display the framerate equivalent to movies perfectly, 24fps.

Something I don't have numbers on, but would imagine there are far more people out there with 720p sets vs. 1080p sets. I would predit 720p to hit mass-market prices soon - if you don't consider them there already (thanks to the recession), with 1080p remaining a slightly higher price point. Like the above poster said, I'm not sure anyone is even retailing SDTV tube sets anymore.
 

Evlar

Banned
Dirtbag said:
There are very real possibilities that many people have no idea how capable a solid upconverting dvd player can be. The range in quality from up-conversion is pretty astounding. I also think that people who've had 720p offerings on digital cable for a long time now, aren't nearly as blown away by 1080p as those that haven't.
I have three machines capable of upconverting DVD to play natively on my 720p set: an HDMI-ready Oppo, my mac mini playing through VGA, and my PS3. None of them output DVD video approaching the quality of Blu Ray.

And I wouldn't expect them to since DVDs are natively 480i. Any scheme for upconverting 480i will look inferior to higher resolution, higher bitrate encodings no matter how intelligently designed. The difference may be small in certain films: Black and white film at 4:3 with few rapid cuts or pans...

But put in a DVD of Speed Racer on your best upconverter followed by the Blu Ray. The difference is astounding.
 

Dirtbag

Member
Evlar said:
I have three machines capable of upconverting DVD to play natively on my 720p set: an HDMI-ready Oppo, my mac mini playing through VGA, and my PS3. None of them output DVD video approaching the quality of Blu Ray.

And I wouldn't expect them to since DVDs are natively 480i. Any scheme for upconverting 480i will look inferior to higher resolution, higher bitrate encodings no matter how intelligently designed. The difference may be small in certain films: Black and white film at 4:3 with few rapid cuts or pans...

But put in a DVD of Speed Racer on your best upconverter followed by the Blu Ray. The difference is astounding.
The difference is 'astounding' for someone with a killer setup, but the masses don't have killer setups... or even properly calibrated sets. Most of them haven't even figured out how to get the most picture out of their existing setups from settings to cables. People throw 'HD' around and still have no idea what they are talking about half the time.

Just look at the wii and get a taste of priorities. I really think blu-ray was about a year early.
 

pel1300

Member
VPhys said:
What you just said boggles my mind.


I bought a PS3 primarily for Blu Ray and after owning one for a year and watching several BD there is no question that the jump from VHS to DVD was massive compared to the jump from DVD to Blu Ray. I'm a huge fan of Blu Ray but even I admit that it's not a big difference compared to DVD when you have a good TV and a good upscaling DVD player.

Ummm...no.

Upscaling does jacksh*t. There were progressive scan dvd players several years ago that were just as good as these "upscaling" dvd players today.

Honestly, dvds on my panny 53" rear projection tv through a panny rp82 progressive scan dvd player in 2001 looked better than DVDs "upscaled" on my ps3.
 

Evlar

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Dirtbag said:
The difference is astounding for someone with a killer setup, but the masses don't have killer setups... or even properly calibrated sets. Most of them haven't even figured out how to get the most picture out of their existing setups from settings to cables.

Just look at the wii and get a taste of priorities. I really think blu-ray was about a year early.
I don't have a "killer setup". I have a decent 32" 720p set, which is rapidly becoming mainstream or even slightly smaller than the mainstream set sold new. The set is still on factory default calibration. I have it hooked up with an HDMI cable, which granted is more expensive due to retail-rape, but I don't think anyone can credibly say HDMI is hard to set up. It's easier to plug in than the component cables you have to buy to enjoy improved video out of an upconverter.
 
mr jones said:
Cost is the factor that keeps me from buying BD movies.

I'd LOVE to get Ratatoille, Casino Royale, Band of Brothers, and Planet Earth. But I can't find any of those for under $25 dollars. The only reason why I have ANY BD flicks at all is because pawn shops around me will sell them for about 9-12 bucks. But that's after scouring these places, because otherwise all they have is stuff like Ultraviolet, Resident Evil, and Spiderman 3. No thanks.

Band of Brothers and Planet Earth are both multi-disc sets. You won't find them on DVD, let alone BR, for that cheap unless there's some kind of crazy sale. Casino Royale is less than $25 on Amazon and DeepDiscount right now.

And if you can't see the difference between an upconverted DVD and BR, or think the difference "isn't that big" you are blind. Seriously, sell your HDTV.

I mean people notice the difference when it comes to desktop monitor resolution, more megapixels in their digital cameras, HD games, HD television programming etc. etc. But somehow a 6x resolution increase in their home viddeo format isn't perceptible? It just reeks of people convincing themselves there isn't a large difference.
 
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