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Islam Discussion Thread

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Himuro

Member
In this thread we discuss the religion of Islam, one of the three Abrahamic faiths. Islam is famous for its strict adherence to following one God, the God of Abraham. Unlike Judaism however, Islam still praises Jesus (pbuh) highly and views him as not only a prophet but also the Messiah. Christians and Muslims have far more in common than Christians think. We greatly respect Jesus, we just don't worship him.

Maybe you have questions about Islam. Maybe you've been interested. Maybe you reject modernism and the rampant denegeracy that runs rampant in our society today with nothing or no one guiding it except greed. Maybe you've denounced Christianity but still know in your heart of hearts you still believe in the One God. This thread could and should answer your questions. Let us talk, peacefully, I might add, about this beautiful faith that belongs to almost two billion strong.

Things to consider:


 
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Himuro

Member
I have a question. If Jesus and Muhammad are both prophets not to be worshiped, why are depictions of Muhammad so often met with violence when depictions of Jesus are not?

Good question. I think it's mostly a case of Jesus already being depicted. By the time Islam came about Christianity had a 600 year start and already had a sizable amount of art dedicated to Jesus Christ. Muslims however have studied and learned the lessons of Christianity and Christ was deified with quick succession within 300 years after his death. I believe the concern is whether Muhammad being depicted will lead to changes in the religion, and given Muslims' protestations that Christians worship a man, surely you can see the concern here.

For what it's worth, a requirement of not depicting Muhammad (pbuh) is not in the Quran although it's ambiguously mentioned in a Hadith. Consider it a defense mechanism to preserve the religion as is and not have it fall into, respectfully, murky waters like Christianity.
 
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BigBooper

Gold Member
Good question. I think it's mostly a case of Jesus already being depicted. By the time Islam came about Christianity had a 600 year start and already had a sizable amount of art dedicated to Jesus Christ. Muslims however have studied and learned the lessons of Christianity and Christ was deified with quick succession within 300 years after his death. I believe the concern is whether Muhammad being depicted will lead to changes in the religion, and given Muslims' protestations that Christians worship a man, surely you can see the concern here.

For what it's worth, a requirement of not depicting Muhammad is not in the Quran although it's ambiguously mentioned in a Hadith. Consider it a defense mechanism to preserve the religion as is and not have it fall into, respectfully, murky waters like Christianity.
Interesting answer, thanks.
 

Himuro

Member
Here's a video that would answer most of your question dear op:


I didn't make this thread to get trolled by Christians. Frankly, you have nothing to go off on. I would like to be respectful. You should consider me an ally in the fight against secularism, modernity, atheism, feminism;etc. but instead you're focusing on proving me wrong. You expose yourself with classical Christian weakness and arrogance as your religion grows weaker and weaker and weaker and placates to more and more of society in a time when you desperately need allies. Come in respectfully or leave.
 
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BigBooper

Gold Member
Do muslims view Jesus as a false prophet, or maybe an unreliable prophet? I don't know what you learn about teachings of Christ, because I know you don't hold the Christian new testament as scripture and I'm coming from the Christian faith. But there are a number of statements Jesus made that would seem to preclude any more prophets of that sort. "I am the way, the truth and the life." "I and my Father are one." "Do this in remembrance of me."

I don't believe you can claim to hold Jesus in respect as a prophet by rejecting what He said and then act as if that makes you a closer ally than Judaism. I will say though that I agree that you are probably a closer ally right now in preserving the decency of culture in some ways, though some of y'alls methods are not worth it.
 

Himuro

Member
Do muslims view Jesus as a false prophet, or maybe an unreliable prophet? I don't know what you learn about teachings of Christ, because I know you don't hold the Christian new testament as scripture and I'm coming from the Christian faith. But there are a number of statements Jesus made that would seem to preclude any more prophets of that sort. "I am the way, the truth and the life." "I and my Father are one." "Do this in remembrance of me."

I don't believe you can claim to hold Jesus in respect as a prophet by rejecting what He said and then act as if that makes you a closer ally than Judaism. I will say though that I agree that you are probably a closer ally right now in preserving the decency of culture in some ways, though some of y'alls methods are not worth it.

What part of "we consider Jesus (pbuh) to be the messiah" did you not understand? Literally. He will corral us all on Judgement Day.

Muslims do not consider him a false prophet. I literally wrote he's a prophet.

Muslims think Christians corrupted the Bible to fit a paganistic narrative that Jesus is God. Jesus on the cross says,"My God, My God why have you forsaken me?" Conclusion: Jesus isn't God. A man comes to Jesus during Temple and asks the greatest commandment. Jesus says worshipping God, the One. Not worshipping him. When asked when the day of judgement will come Jesus says he doesn't know, only God in heaven knows. So much Jesus doesn't know. When he worships he only worships God.

Jesus was not a Christian. Jesus was a Jew. There is only one God. Bible doesn't even hint at a Trinity.

Islam views Christianity as a religion corrupted. The original Christians were Torah observing Jews that kept the old Law. Even Jesus said he didn't come to abandon the Old Law. What do Christians do? Abandon the Old Law. These Torah observing Jews did not worship Jesus. They were his disciples and he not once asked to be worshipped.

In fact, in the New Testament the first Council is had to determine the future. Paul says to preach to Gentiles because Jews weren't hearing their message in great numbers. If you take anything Jesus says and compare it with Paul, the latter does the complete opposite. Christianity is the religion of Paul, not Jesus. Jesus sect or Torah Jews that viewed him as the Messiah were killed as heretics in the 200-300 ADs. Look up the Ebionites. It wasn't even codified that Jesus was God until 300 AD during the Council of Nicea with the Nicene Creed.

Christianity is a corruption of all things Jesus preached and Christians worship a man.




Alhamdulilah for Allah blessing us with the final prophet and settings things right. Christians care more about Paul than they do their own savior.

Mark 12: 28-32:

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”


29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[b] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[c] There is no commandment greater than these.”


32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.

Christianity is idolatry and Jesus would agree.
 
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Tschumi

Member
Do muslims view Jesus as a false prophet, or maybe an unreliable prophet?
Those are both unnecessarily bleak adjectives lol... I think the gospels and Bible, etc, of Christianity are productions of the religion that were created by specific people/groups and refined/altered over history, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that we far as Muslims are concerned Jesus might not have said such things, at least not in such definitive wording.

---

Hi, Muslims. I find your religion to be beautiful, culturally significant, admirable and enlightened in many ways. I do not think the vagaries and occasionally negative traits of its adoption across, primarily, a various and often socially unstable region (an instability that is not always, or even often, their fault) has anything to do with its true ideals or beliefs.

As far as I've been able to learn when i receive information from sources that try to educate me on the religion the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) generally preached peace, understanding, and tolerance, a set of lofty and utopian ideals which, as with the ideals of every great religion throughout history, have been reinterpreted by thousands of authorities and occasionally misused.

---

As with all religions, I feel that they are a mechanism for understanding a world which confused or awed the people at the time of their conception. I actually think that in these ways religion and science are two things married by their common goal of understanding, they just use different methods to achieve that goal. I personally feel that i have my own understanding, and while i recognise that the ritual and touchstones of organised religion can help me remain calm during a turbulent life, i feel that i am able to, generally, sustain myself without any external aid.

I look at Islam as a thing which exists, one of the greatest ideas in history, and a rich source of architecture, thinking, and revelation. There are other such Great Ideas, and i regard them all similarly, with respect and gratitude that does not extend towards limiting myself or wishing limit on others based on that idea.

I just try to find my own way.

I do wish limit of ignorant intolerance, or uneducated slander, and i hope nobody brings any of that to this thread.
 
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Himuro

Member
Those are both unnecessarily bleak adjectives lol... I think the gospels and Bible, etc, of Christianity are productions of the religion that were created by specific people/groups and refined/altered over history, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that we far as Muslims are concerned Jesus might not have said such things, at least not in such definitive wording.

---

Hi, Muslims. I find your religion to be beautiful, culturally significant, admirable and enlightened in many ways. I do not think the vagaries and occasionally negative traits of its adoption across, primarily, a various and often socially unstable region has anything to do with its true ideals of beliefs.

As far as I've been able to learn when i receive information from sources that try to educate me on the religion the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) generally preached peace, understanding, and tolerance, a set of lofty and utopian ideals which, as with the ideals of every great religion throughout history, have been reinterpreted by thousands of authorities and occasionally misused.

---

As with all religions, I feel that they are a mechanism for understanding a world which confused or awed the people at the time of their conception. I actually think that in these ways religion and science are two things married by their common goal of understanding, they just use different methods to achieve that goal. I personally feel that i have my own understanding, and while i recognise that the ritual and touchstones of organised religion can help me remain calm during a turbulent life, i feel that i am able to, generally, sustain myself without any external aid.

I look at Islam as a thing which exists, one of the greatest ideas in history, and a rich source of architecture, thinking, and revelation. There are other such Great Ideas, and i regard them all similarly, with respect and gratitude that does not extend towards limiting myself or wishing limit on others based on that idea.

I just try to find my own way.

I do wish limit of ignorant intolerance, on uneducated slander, and i hope nobody brings any of that to this thread.

Hopefully you don't view my post before yours as too harsh, friend.
 

Mohonky

Member
I have a question. If Jesus and Muhammad are both prophets not to be worshiped, why are depictions of Muhammad so often met with violence when depictions of Jesus are not?

Fairly certain most Muslims dont consider it any more acceptable to create an image of Jesus any more than they do Mohammed; but images of Jesus existed long before Islam was a thing so I dont think they could retrospectively be offended by the notion particularly as a very large number of Christians co-existed in Muslim areas and vice versa.

I cant think of the top of my head of a single example of Muslim art of literature that depicts Jesus, but in order to be a practising Muslim you must believe in Jesus the prophet.

So I think in consideration its more that while Muslims believe depictions of Mohammed are outright prohibited, its also that Muslims shouldnt depict Jesus but that many Muslims are fine with Christians depicting Jesus; hence the reluctance to impose the idea that depicting Jesus is idoltry.
 

Tschumi

Member
It's all bullshit

/Thread
team america vomit GIF
hope a mod gives u a talking to for this crap
 

niilokin

Gold Member
I didn't make this thread to get trolled by Christians. Frankly, you have nothing to go off on. I would like to be respectful. You should consider me an ally in the fight against secularism, modernity, atheism, feminism;etc. but instead you're focusing on proving me wrong. You expose yourself with classical Christian weakness and arrogance as your religion grows weaker and weaker and weaker and placates to more and more of society in a time when you desperately need allies. Come in respectfully or leave.
how are you exactly trying to promote your beautiful religion by acting judgemental and arrogant yourself? fight against secularism, modernity, atheism... shouldnt muslims work on bettering themselves not worrying about others?
 

Scotty W

Member

Bears in the caliph’s private retreat are one thing; public images of the Prophet quite another. Yet Islam’s founder may have appeared on Umayyad coins within 60 years of his death. In the 690s, the caliph Abdel Malik minted gold dinars portraying a standing figure with a long beard, holding a sword. (There’s one in the British Museum.) For a long time, it was assumed this was a semblance of the caliph himself. But recent comparisons with contemporaneous Byzantine coins showing a bearded Jesus are changing the consensus. And a similar standing figure on a copper coin has the name ‘Muhammad’ clearly written down the side. These are not, most likely, portraits from life. Instead they encapsulate a model of leadership – the intimidating warrior-prophet – popular during the Islamic conquests. So even if it is the Prophet, it is still just as much the caliph.
 
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