analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Streaming only. That's not backwards compatibility.
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It's 2023 - Let's Talk About Backwards Compatibility for PS3 Games
- Thread starter Celcius
- Start date
Streaming only. That's not backwards compatibility.
funkygunther
Banned
Even if it's possible, it's probably not worth the hassle at this point. Sucks that some games are becoming increasingly hard to buy legitimately but that's more of a loss for Sony since emulation is an option for gamers.
Took them like a decade to allow us to change our PSN names because of how it was originally implemented. They had no plan back then.
Took them like a decade to allow us to change our PSN names because of how it was originally implemented. They had no plan back then.
TropicanaTwista
Member
Would rather Sony focus on other things than BC 
. I don't have enough time to play new games, let alone old games.
. I don't have enough time to play new games, let alone old games.
gothmog
Gold Member
I never heard this said explicitly by Sony but I always had a suspicion that the real reason there's no PS3 BC is because of licensing of the technology and legality of emulators. Sony probably could not use the RPCS3 emulator legally even if they wanted it to. There is probably also the licensing aspect of some of the underlying technology like the Nvidia based GPU.
If it was simple Sony would support PS3 BC. It's not, so they don't. At the same time everyone makes remakes/remasters so they figure the important parts of the catalog will be re-homed in a more friendly BC environment eventually.
If it was simple Sony would support PS3 BC. It's not, so they don't. At the same time everyone makes remakes/remasters so they figure the important parts of the catalog will be re-homed in a more friendly BC environment eventually.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You do make a good point about nVIDIA being a potential blocker (although from PS3 forward all consoles have had a hypervisor of some form, not as complete for the GPU as MS did for Xbox One possibly), one more reason for companies to stay away from them if they make a console like product (not sure nVIDIA would have wanted to allow their GPU to be fully virtualised by a console maker and thus making it easier to swap out).
vivftp
Member
Jeff Grubb had previously reported a rumor that PS3 emulation was still being worked on at Sony. I believe he stated this sometime within the last year. It'll happen, just a matter of when. Sony won't want to keep supporting PS3 hardware in their cloud infrastructure forever, so creating an emulator is the only option. That way they can move their entire cloud infrastructure over to PS5 hardware and that one platform will play every single PlayStation game available on the cloud. And once the emulator's created and built for PS5 hardware, there's no reason not to allow local playback with it.
TexMex
Member
You are sitting here saying I'm not having the experience I did. You react like it is impossible to have a different experience with something cloud based between two users. It isn't like we are playing a game off a disc with identical hardware and one is claiming a wildly different performance. Cloud streaming is different based on countless factors like speed, region, hardware, ISP, etc., so I found your smug response to be totally unwarranted.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
.... excuse me, what the fuck?
Mario Galaxy, Halo 3, Mass Effect 1-3, GTA4, Fallout New Vegas, Bayonetta, Mario Kart Wii, Forza Motorsport 4, Portal, Super Meat Boy, Sonic Generations Left 4 Dead 2, the list goes on....
and it's somehow the WORST? i'd fucking argue that 7th gen is better than 6th and 8th when it comes to quality titles
I actually don't get this weird hatred for 7th gen some people here have, nobody says this stuff about 6th gen
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GymWolf
Member
No, i said that you could have a different experience if they patched the whole thing after i did my test (it was a bit more than one month ago, probably close to 2 months) or that you are just more used than me to low res\framerate because maybe you play on portable console way more than me, so 2 things that can be both true, maybe you even played the thing on a non-4k oled monitor and that help because 30 fps and low res are not exactly the best on a 4k oled for a number of reasons.
I heard a lot of people saying how the portable experience is as good as home console\pc experience and i don't know you or your taste, so maybe what is shit to me it is absolutely ok for you.
I don't stream a lot so i don't know if a difference in region\isp can be as big as having 2 completely opposite reactions if we both have a blistering fast internet connection (it is the best that money can buy here in italy on my part).
Sorry if i sounded harsh.
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SafeOrAlone
Banned
You can't just leave stuff like MGS4 behind, who's kidding who?
GHG
Member
Games run like shit on the PS3 hardware though. I still have mine and there's zero reason to use it instead of emulating what I want on one of my PC's.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Well true, but some got their Director’s Cut on PS3 (see Deadly Premonition) so there are some nice things about having both versions (definitely the Xbox 360 version looks really good on XSX).
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
GHG
Member
Pretty much every game now runs well on PC via Rpcs3. Much better framerate, far superior image quality and you don't have to use the DS3, which is a disaster of a controller by modern standards.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove here. If you're happy with the PS3 itself then fine, but there are far better options out there for most people and more than anything, this is something Sony shouldn't be neglecting like they currently are.
EDMIX
Member
Non-issue.
Majority of gamers simply don't play older games, shit most don't even continue BUYING games past 6 months after release let alone playing them beyond that point, let alone generations ago.
Sony would have a better chance at literally remastering their top games then doing some BC thing with PS5. Can they do it PS6 or something? Shit maybe lol I think by then the best titles would have already been remade or remastered, look at Demon Souls and The Last Of Us 1 and Dead Space. We will likely see a lot of PS3 remakes this gen and anything not remade will likely get a remaster.
Those few titles stuck that publisher may not care that much about ,your 3D Dot Heros or Infamous 1 and 2 or something could be played on a emulator sure...but it would be easier to literally just say buy a fucking PS3 used for that exact game lol
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keep in mind, the people who are even that hardcore about those types of collections rarely even fucking see BC or emulation as a way to play it, they prefer to play native....
Last time I used a PS3 for a PS3 game might have been 2019 when I replayed FFXIII (keep in mind, I wouldn't have even played it if Square made a remaster to FFXIII with all 3 games or something) lol
So yea, there are a few games still on that gen that never got ported ,remade or remastered, but that is a number that shrinks every year when a series of remaster comes out or random remakes.
This...keep in mind I'm sure Sony sees that data and it has a lot to do with why they didn't waste any energy on some BC type thing with PS3. I think it would be nice to have PS6 be BC to PS1,PS2,PS3,PS4 and PS5...but I would be more hype for PS6 games lol Why the fuck would I even be caring about that shit when a new generation starts?
I played thru Xenosaga 1,2 and 3 last year and the year prior I ran thru Onimusha 1-4 and a few years before that I ran thur FFXIII. So I own the hardware to play said games, thus its more of a "thats nice" vs some deep needed thing.
So spend thousands on a PC that can emulate PS3? Spend years waiting and begging for BC?
oooorrrrrr $70 bucks and just actually beat the game and move on with life? lol I just don't see that all of this is really worth trying to save a few bucks on a piece of plastic for a handful of games. The people I know who collect like me don't sell their systems in the first place, they don't go around waiting generations and jumping thru hoops or something to avoid the native system lol The more time that passes after PS3, the more irrelevant that library becomes to consumers of the content that wasn't remastered or remade.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
GHG
Member
Like what?
I've not experienced any issues in the games I've wanted to play.
I don't see how anyone can recommend a PS3 over a half decent gaming PC in this day and age. If you're insistent in putting money into a dead platform that is no longer supported then that's your business.
Nostalgic Nightmare
Member
I still have my launch ps1/ps2 and ps3 60gb and they still run like champs. The only thing I’ve ever done was clean with compressed air and replace some thermal paste on the ps3 to be safe.
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cash_longfellow
Gold Member
Here we go with this stupid conversation again. A large majority of gamers don’t give a shit about ps3 back compat. If it’s an issue for you, buy a ps3 for like $50 and play your games on it or download one of the several available emulators. It really is that simple. Why should Sony spend the money and time on something that is legitimately simple to fix and doesn’t cost much at all?
PixelatedBeast
Member
Quasicat
Member
Brand new in 2020 yes, but the PS2 games I want to play can be downloaded from the store through software emulation, or were remastered onto PS3. For me, it was worth it.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
OK, i tried to play Ratchet and Clank A crack in time on my PC, and the first thing i noticed was some weird transparencies. They're in a lot of the PS3 games i play, actually. They end up looking more like dithering than actual transparencies. Here's an example for the Sly collection on PS3 (can't really bring an actual screenshot for ACiT since i deleted the ISO a long while ago due to said emulation problems)
also general graphical issues in ModNation Racers (and gameplay issues too). These images were taken with the latest version, btw
In the case of SLY, this is the only major issue since everything else when you load up the games works fine. But it's a different story for the God of War Collection which had these lines everywhere in the game. And A Crack in Time too, OFC.
Actually, on the topic of God of War, 3 is still a bitch to emulate since it's so demanding.
I haven't emulated many PS3 games but my experiences doing so on RPCS3 have been mediocre and buggy. Maybe it's an issue with my hardware but it's not fully there yet. It's a bleeding edge solution that is the best way when it works, but a ps3 is cheap and more reliable.
I'll reconsider my viewpoint if you can give me some good solutions to these issues though, i've seen videos of these games working perfectly on other peoples systems. I dont wanna have to plug in my ps3 just to replay some classics i missed
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Anyone with a decent pc probably shouldn't care that much. But it is lame that Sony can't be bothered to develop something for thier own system.
The poster above me had some issues with pc emulation but you have to remember it'd about a thousand times easier to develop emulation software for one fixed platform (ps5 for example) than 8 billion potential pc combinations.
The poster above me had some issues with pc emulation but you have to remember it'd about a thousand times easier to develop emulation software for one fixed platform (ps5 for example) than 8 billion potential pc combinations.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
true but it was still better futureproofed and now 360 games can easily be played on XSX. quite a lot of them too. RROD was still a hilarious disaster thoughNot when they design a console with a failure rate as bad as The Red Ring of Death.
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EDMIX
Member
Not necessarily.
A few are still on PS3. (outside of that streaming stuff)
Infamous 1-2
Killzone 2-3
Resistance 1-3
Motorstorm
Folklore etc
The big stuff got ported and remastered, like Uncharted series, God Of War 3, The Last Of Us etc.
I think imo they can remaster those collections with the new teams they have that port games easily, though I'd want a Killzone 2 remake lol
Step 1. Buy a PS3
Step 2. Thread closed
Pretty much.
Nothing wrong if anyone wants to wait, but time is finite, money isn't. Buy the system, play the game, get the experience and move on. Some of them games might suck too lol Out here fucking waiting years, begging, getting an emulator after buying an expensive PC just to find out that game sucked lol Could have found that shit out several years ago lol
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Step 102: Hire Phil Spencer
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
God, I love Killzone 2 and 3. Best exclusives on the PS3.
Topher
Gold Member
Nah, Xbox BC was an attempt at a temporary fix that didn't work. PS does not have the games problems Xbox One did.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
the moment he gets appointed, Naughty Dog/Insomniac immediately starts having management problems and employees start flying out of Sony's Playstation division to go work for Microsoft. Spider-Man 2 gets delayed to 2025 and Xbox out of the blue gets a sudden boost in games for 2023. Amazing sabotage plan.
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Moses85
Member
PS3 Games are HD, so nothing to complain.
Take Wii Games for instance… or even older consoles. Nightmare
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Streaming works great, if you have the connection(s) for it. I can’t speak on streaming PS3 games, but remote play and Xcloud work beautifully.streaming?
AGRacing
Member
It doesn't work? I have a huge library of owned Xbox 1 and 360 games. Many of them enhanced. Many of them in higher resolution and HDR. I wish I could say the same about PS2 and PS3 games on my PS5.
Topher
Gold Member
That's great, but that isn't what I'm talking about. Xbox One's biggest problem outside of a horrible launch was the lack of studios and poor output from the ones they did have. BC was clearly meant to try and mitigate that issue but it didn't work.
Did it work in that it enabled people like you to play your og Xbox and 360 games on Xbox One? Yeah....in that respect it was a great success. It just didn't change the overall state of the console market.
McCarth
Member
I just noticed these aren’t part of PS+ Premium despite being on PSNow. Incoming collection in 2023?
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
my phatty is 14 years old and works just fine.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Local playback basically kills monetization, which basically kills any financial reason to back the development of BC, so I think we can safely assume local playback will never happen.
They need to more than break even the R&D and opportunity costs involved in this.
If you have five engineers working on this for 3 years, each of them making 120K per year, that's 1.8 million dollars.
if 50K people subscribe to PS+ premium because of it for 2 years that's an extra 3-7 dollars, that's at most 700K dollars, which doesn't even include relicensing the games...
Increase that to an improbable 100K and that still makes it to 1.4 million.
And now you're bottled into porting this emulation to PS6, which requires maintaining those engineers working on it. And like I mentioned before that's just revenue not profit. Once you account for licensing, you're probably losing money depending on what games you bring.
If you look at the best selling PS3 games, they either have newer iterations, remakes ports, or remasters.
MGS4 is the only one in the top 10 that doesn't. It honestly isn't worth it, but certainly not for local playback.
Mr Hyde
Member
Since Sony won't do backwards compatibility with PS3 (and PS1) I decided to hook up my old slim PS3 again. It's been great revisiting old and new gems again, both from PS1 and PS3. So now I've got four generations of Playstation all in one place, all without subbing to that useless PS Plus.
EDMIX
Member
I don't think any of that is the reason behind why BC is taking long for PS3 to PS5 or it not being here or something.
PS4 moved MORE units then PS3 and its BC to PS5....so.....yea.
ok..but why would you have PS5 be BC to PS4 a system with literally with a bigger library and more units?
I don't disagree with you, simply that I'm doubtful that is based on BC, we saw remasters and ports and remakes of games on systems that literally have BC so...I don't see that as being some real reason behind a lot of this.
I think its expensive to get cell emulated which I agree with and I agree it might not be worth it to them to even do that based on a low number of users that would even use it, but I don't see remasters, remakes, ports or even subs as the reason behind this.
As Sony themselves haven't even ported all of their top games, even shit like Infamous, Resistance, GT5, Killzone, Ratchet games etc. If the whole point was to get all that in sales from remasters and ports, we'd have them by now.
As it stands, PS3 got ports of Sly, Jak, Ratchet, God Of War, older Final Fantasy games, Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid etc and it was BC to PS1 and PS2.... to not have BC on PS4 using this logic if it was for sales of remasters, shit...the should have went HAM on those ports if that was turn, in fact you saw a bit less remasters then the gen prior by them.
So I think it more has to do with the cost to create it and the low % of people that might use it.
At millions a year to get that emulation? I don't know how many will really use it or even buy a PS5 based on those exact reasons for it to make sense for them. Maybe with PS6 being more powerful thats something they look into and it makes sense for all parties.
Mr Hyde
PS3 and PS5 is the combo to get lol All 5 generations easily.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
I don't think any of that is the reason behind why BC is taking long for PS3 to PS5 or it not being here or something.
PS4 moved MORE units then PS3 and its BC to PS5....so.....yea.
ok..but why would you have PS5 be BC to PS4 a system with literally with a bigger library and more units?
I don't disagree with you, simply that I'm doubtful that is based on BC, we saw remasters and ports and remakes of games on systems that literally have BC so...I don't see that as being some real reason behind a lot of this.
I think its expensive to get cell emulated which I agree with and I agree it might not be worth it to them to even do that based on a low number of users that would even use it, but I don't see remasters, remakes, ports or even subs as the reason behind this.
As Sony themselves haven't even ported all of their top games, even shit like Infamous, Resistance, GT5, Killzone, Ratchet games etc. If the whole point was to get all that in sales from remasters and ports, we'd have them by now.
As it stands, PS3 got ports of Sly, Jak, Ratchet, God Of War, older Final Fantasy games, Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid etc and it was BC to PS1 and PS2.... to not have BC on PS4 using this logic if it was for sales of remasters, shit...the should have went HAM on those ports if that was turn, in fact you saw a bit less remasters then the gen prior by them.
So I think it more has to do with the cost to create it and the low % of people that might use it.
At millions a year to get that emulation? I don't know how many will really use it or even buy a PS5 based on those exact reasons for it to make sense for them. Maybe with PS6 being more powerful thats something they look into and it makes sense for all parties.
I was merely responding to the point that local playback was a given.
PS4 BC allowed for cross platform development and enhancement, which allows for an easier transition between generations for Sony.
Basically, we don't get miles morales, horizon, GoWR, GT7 without PS4 BC. That and because it was easy to do.
I'm saying you have to look at scale and opportunity cost. It's easy for sony to remake or remaster pretty much any game, it's difficult to create a PS3 emulator AND on top of it the benefits are minimal. You just have a vocal minority who really THINKS they want it. I didn't say remasters/remakes/ports are the reason we don't have BC, but they represent a better ROI than BC.
Sony has to weigh the benefits of each title individually and assess it for opportunity costs. Sucker Punch just made their most successful game. Does it make more sense for them to dedicate resources to GoT2 or a port of Seconds Son?
They remade Ratchet 1 and it didn't really sell all that well. Had it sold better, maybe they'd have remade them all.
The Resistance games sold significantly less as the franchise went on.
GT5 has sequels in GT6 and GT7
Killzone as a franchise kind of outlived its usefulness too. Guerrilla is going all in on Horizon and maybe other endeavors, I don't see them going back to Killzone anytime soon.
Sony stripped more and more BC from PS3 as time went on. The PS3 was somewhat a failure due to the cost and the cost were high due to things like putting in legacy hardware. The lesson sony learned from hardware BC, was that it was not worth the cost, where they were essentially mortgaging the future for the past. If the PS3 had launched for say 400 dollars instead of 500/600 dollars, it would have probably maintained the success of the PS2.
EDMIX
Member
ok, I better understand what you mean then.
Respectable post.
I wonder if any of the teams they bought would do a Killzone 1 remake or if GG would want to do that in house with one of their other teams? With how huge Horizon is, maybe Sony wants all hands on deck on that IP and would rather outsource Killzone to a different studio that handles remakes like Bluepoint or something.
Same with Ghost Of Tsushima. With both teams knocking it out of the park with their new IPs last gen, its really likely we see remakes of Infamous or Killzone outsourced.
With all this in the way, it just makes more sense for people to buy a PS3 used then to wait and see how any of this turns out, its either going to take a long ass time like when PS6 comes out or it not happen at all or all those games get remade, which could take generations..
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
I can happily wait for emulators to get better... I'm a PC gamer, my steam backlog is larger than the average sperm whale's dick. it's just that when PS3s are so cheap and readily available i feel like that's the better option for anyone who doesn't wanna buy a PC or doesn't wanna wait. (and emulating the games on PC is still very risky as seen from my screenshots)
like for instance i'm not buying a PS4 and i'm waiting because PS4s are more expensive than PS3s, and PS5 is much more powerful and reasonable (and those i can't afford either or yet another subscription when i'm already subbed to gamepass)
I just want bloodborne & GT7 really
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Jimmyisback
Banned
Never gonna happen. Sony doesn't give a shit. They would rather sell you upcoming remakes or remasters then offer this goodwill.
Mibu no ookami
Member
I wouldn't envision any team wanting to do a Killzone remaster. What is the upside?
If you're a start up team you and you're doing a port/remaster/remake, you want something that is kind of a sure thing and something that will lead to more work.
Bluepoint for example can do whatever they want, an original IP, Demon's Souls 2, Bloodborne, Bloodborne 2...
Killzone is basically dead and it was never really that big of a franchise to begin with. So you have to think about who you're making the game for.
If you look at the remasters/remakes sony has been making: Uncharted 4 + Lost Legacy and TLOU. They did these because they thought/think those properties would be successful on PC with the new movie and tv show.
They remade Demon's Souls because of the popularity of Dark Souls, but the game probably underperformed due to limited PS5 hardware sales.
Who is the audience for Killzone? The original people who played it? Which wasn't many or potential new fans. Well, if we look at Shadow fall, we see that new fanbase wasn't really biting either.
Sony has to weigh the value of their old IP against the potential of new IP and when new IP like Horizon and Ghost are significantly outperforming older IP like Infamous and Killzone, that tells them there is value in new IP and that the ceiling is much higher.
Sony has tried outsourcing moderate IP to other studios. They tried giving Sackboy to Sumo Digital with very limited success. By some rumors Uncharted might end up with a different studio my guess would be Bend, but it seems more related to Visual Arts.
Old franchises like Jak and Syphon Filter are just dead. No one from the original studios has an interest in them anymore and other studios would rather not be hampered by the limitations of the series. Basically, you make old fans angry that it isn't exactly the same and you barely make headway with new fans who feel like they can't jump into the franchise. This was kind of the risk they took rebooting God of War, but at least this was the same studio.
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Get a PS3.
Problem solved.
Move on with your life.
Enjoy!
Problem solved.
Move on with your life.
Enjoy!
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