• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

It's a travesty Nintendo didn't experiment with different Joycon ideas and have a Joycon Pro Controller

KAL2006

Banned
I remember when Switch first got announced people came up with crazy concept ideas, such as Joycon fishing reel for a fishing game.

But the biggest travesty is lack of official Joycon Pro Controller. After playing Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze my big manly hands got cramps holding these tiny Joycons that are designs for small girl hands. I then went and bought a Hori Split Pro controller, and the difference in comfort was night and day. Not only was the Hori Split Pro comfortable, the D Pad was great for 2D games such as fighters, the Analog sticks were big and perfect for aiming in FPS games.

However the issue is that these controller's don't have HD Rumble and they don't have batteries for wirlesss table top and dock mode. After all these years you would expect Nintendo or a licensed controller to do it all, have the feature set of a Hori Split Pro as well as HD rumble and be able to play wireless for the ultimate controller but no we don't have that. And it's obvious it's due to Nintendo they most likely stipulated no wirless or HD rumble to. It compete with their Pro Controller. Which is a shame as they don't have a Pro Controller for handheld plah
 

Deerock71

Member
Game Dog GIF by FaZe Clan
 
S

SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
I would like to have bigger joy cons. The Wii mote and & nunchuck combo is much more comfortable to hold, but had less buttons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLZ

Deerock71

Member
I have a crazy CRAZY idea for a joycon!

..................................

............................

.....................

............

........

....

...

..

.


REAL FULL SIZED ANALOG STICKS THAT AREN'T PURE AND UTTER GARBAGE!!!!

THIS HERE!



not this garbage!
Nintendo tapped into the vehicle mindset; if you own the Switch, it's less expensive to replace the joycons than buy a new Switch.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Nintendo tapped into the vehicle mindset; if you own the Switch, it's less expensive to replace the joycons than buy a new Switch.

I am not even taking the bad drifting issues of them into account here... they just suck even if they are fully functional. they are so imprecise and small that you can not play anything on them that requires aiming with the stick in any enjoyable way.

I have the Hori Split Pad, but even that thing kinda sucks. the build quality is horrible and they lack features.
mine doesn't register L3 or R3 pressen if you have your stick fully tilted to any side for example, and my left stick has a slight drift upwards. so bigger sticks alone is also no guarantee that you will have less issues. but then again, Hori controllers have always been shit. i have no Idea why they get so much praise online, never held a good one. I only tolerate the Split Pad because the alternative is even worse
 
Last edited:

KAL2006

Banned
I am not even taking the bad drifting issues of them into account here... they just suck even if they are fully functional. they are so imprecise and small that you can not play anything on them that requires aiming with the stick in any enjoyable way.

I have the Hori Split Pad, but even that thing kinda sucks. the build quality is horrible and they lack features.
mine doesn't register L3 or R3 pressen if you have your stick fully tilted to any side for example, and my left stick has a slight drift upwards. so bigger sticks alone is also no guarantee that you will have less issues. but then again, Hori controllers have always been shit. i have no Idea why they get so much praise online, never held a good one. I only tolerate the Split Pad because the alternative is even worse

I have Hori they seem fine but then again it's not that old. I've had drift issues with 2 Dualshock 4s as well as issues with R1 button, so I wouldn't say drift issue and broken shoulder buttons are exclusive too Hori. Drift is more common with Joycons due to the small sticks but still can happen in bigger controllers like Hori and PS4 controller although not as frequently as Joycons.

But yes I agree the Joycons are far too impresise, it's just damn hard to aim, I guess it's not much of a issue with many Nintendo games. But soon as you play something like a shorter it's noticeable. For me it's not just the small analogs it's the the size of everything, no actual grip on the controller due to the small shape, tiny buttons and D Pad. Everything is just too damn small which causes cramps when you playing a intense game. For example when I'm playing Donkey Kong some of the go kart levels are so frustrating and hard you end up holding the Switch tighter and end up getting major cramps due to lack of a decent shape and grip.
 

01011001

Gold Member
I have Hori they seem fine but then again it's not that old. I've had drift issues with 2 Dualshock 4s as well as issues with R1 button, so I wouldn't say drift issue and broken shoulder buttons are exclusive too Hori. Drift is more common with Joycons due to the small sticks but still can happen in bigger controllers like Hori and PS4 controller although not as frequently as Joycons.

But yes I agree the Joycons are far too impresise, it's just damn hard to aim, I guess it's not much of a issue with many Nintendo games. But soon as you play something like a shorter it's noticeable. For me it's not just the small analogs it's the the size of everything, no actual grip on the controller due to the small shape, tiny buttons and D Pad. Everything is just too damn small which causes cramps when you playing a intense game. For example when I'm playing Donkey Kong some of the go kart levels are so frustrating and hard you end up holding the Switch tighter and end up getting major cramps due to lack of a decent shape and grip.

I too have multiple drifting DualShock 4s.
Hori Controllers just feel awful to use for me. I tried a few on different systems and the only ones that are god are the ones that do not have sticks like their fight pads, or that GameCube SNES style controller they made.

their sticks feel awful and super cheap.
 

CS Lurker

Member
I was having a look on that Aya neo next, and I couldn't stop thinking how great would it be if Nintendo tried something similar. The steam deck also seems to be very comfy.

But it's Nintendo, I don't expect good things from them (outside games, of course).

I also hate the gyro drift, so I always thought they could have released an IR LED add-on (just like we see in VR controllers) with a camera. This way the camera could correct the drift. This would be cheap and optional.

But, like I said, I don't expect nice things from them in this department.

I want IR pointer controls back (at least as an additional option). They only need to sell a Wii-like sensor bar, right?

If you're OK playing with the right joy-con upside down, then yes.
 

AndrewRyan

Member
Am really surprised too. Thought they'd at least offer an alternative right joycon with the stick on top for dual-stick games. Maybe some larger sizes and ergonomic versions.

Highly recommend the Fixture S1. Prefer it over all the other grip's I've tried.
 
Last edited:

01011001

Gold Member
IR pointing is one of the best things Nintendo has ever created (hardware wise).

except that it had noticeable input lag, had low resolution (comparable to a low ridiculously low DPI setting on a mouse) and was prone for interference.

Gyro pointers/aiming is superior in every way except one minor thing the IR pointer does better, and that is repositioning the pointer. but that can be done easily and without issue via a button press or the right stick in games that use gyro aiming
 

01011001

Gold Member

Other options are the Hori Split Pad Pro and the Binbok ones. Multiple options out there with full size joysticks now. Nintendo ones would be nice but at least we have something.

is it me or do these look like they have way too much input latency? not sure what the normal latency is in the controller test screen on the Switch, but when I counted the frames from when he started moving the stick until the stick test screen reacted to it I counted up to 3 frames of delay. that is on a 30fps video, so between 66.66 and 99.99 milliseconds of latency if the video isn't deceiving due to youtube compression



I don't know how delayed this is on a joycon or a pro controller, but this seems laggy to me. I noticed it looking laggy from the very start, hence why I then counted teh frames in the video where you can see clear inputs and input reaction

edit: i found an okay-ish video where you can see someone doing it on a joycon, also a 30fps video so also 33.33ms per frame



it seems to me to only be 1 frame of delay here, so at most 33.33ms

IMO that MOBAPAD seems to definitely have way more input latency than the Joycons... you always have to be super careful with shit like that. and just because a controller is wired or in this case directly connected to the system doesn't mean it can not have input latency... in fact on Switch if you connect a Pro Controller using the wired connection in the options menu you will have increased latency over using it via bluetooth... weird but that can happen due to various reasons.

in this case it might be one of the chips that send the inputs from the controller's board to the switch that can introduce latency for some reason
 
Last edited:

Shaqazooloo

Member
But the biggest travesty is lack of official Joycon Pro Controller. After playing Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze my big manly hands got cramps holding these tiny Joycons that are designs for small girl hands. I then went and bought a Hori Split Pro controller, and the difference in comfort was night and day. Not only was the Hori Split Pro comfortable, the D Pad was great for 2D games such as fighters, the Analog sticks were big and perfect for aiming in FPS games.

However the issue is that these controller's don't have HD Rumble and they don't have batteries for wirlesss table top and dock mode. After all these years you would expect Nintendo or a licensed controller to do it all, have the feature set of a Hori Split Pro as well as HD rumble and be able to play wireless for the ultimate controller but no we don't have that.
I think you'll love the bin bok joy-cons. Wireless, gyro, rumble (not HD rumble though) and pretty bulky.

 
Last edited:

01011001

Gold Member
I think you'll love the bin bok joy-cons. Wireless, gyro, rumble (not HD rumble though) and pretty bulky.


3rd party is never the cure, just a bandage. these controllers often are terribly made and break easily, they also often have high production tolerances so the quality from one to the other could vary a lot.
 
except that it had noticeable input lag, had low resolution (comparable to a low ridiculously low DPI setting on a mouse) and was prone for interference.

Gyro pointers/aiming is superior in every way except one minor thing the IR pointer does better, and that is repositioning the pointer. but that can be done easily and without issue via a button press or the right stick in games that use gyro aiming
If I could sentence you to play sin and punishment 2 for a thousand hours I would. …But that would be a reward which you don’t deserve, so. 🤔
 
REAL FULL SIZED ANALOG STICKS THAT AREN'T PURE AND UTTER GARBAGE!!!!
Hardware wise the switch is top notch. idk what youre talking about. The best.
The shop and the UI/system menu don't fare much better either. It's really damn lucky it has worthwhile exclusives.
I got mine for Pokemon Go(I didnt know it was fake pokemon). Gf for Zelda. Sister for Animal Crossing.

We legit all got the switch for one game.
 
I have a crazy CRAZY idea for a joycon!

..................................

............................

.....................

............

........

....

...

..

.


REAL FULL SIZED ANALOG STICKS THAT AREN'T PURE AND UTTER GARBAGE!!!!

THIS HERE!



not this garbage!
I guess we'll see how it plays out for Valve and the Deck. I hope the thing isn't gonna feel like ass when I'm holding something this thicc.
 
S

SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
except that it had noticeable input lag, had low resolution (comparable to a low ridiculously low DPI setting on a mouse) and was prone for interference.

Gyro pointers/aiming is superior in every way except one minor thing the IR pointer does better, and that is repositioning the pointer. but that can be done easily and without issue via a button press or the right stick in games that use gyro aiming
no, it didn't. it was clearly the best feature of the Wii and a godsend for a ton of games. only problem was the limited range which could lead to jittery movement when too far away from the sensor bar. the IR pointer was fast and responsive, it feels great. the tech behind the IR pointer is essentially the predecessor of VR:



it worked and it worked great. deal with it.
 

Banjo64

Member
I just want joycons with any analogue technology apart from what it’s got.

Give me Vita thumb sticks.

Fuck, I’d happily spend £60 on a pair of joycons that have the 3DS circle pad.

I got drift on mine after about 150 hours of play time. Simply unforgivable and now useless as a handheld to me because I won’t spend £50-£60 for every 150 hours of gameplay.
 

Tams

Gold Member
No a travesty is nintendo abandoned the mother fucking wii mote and glorious ir pointing. The joycons are atrocious…

Well then again it’s their own fault for making the wii u instead of a more powerful wii 2 with focus on updated wii mote and pro controllers.
Oi!

The Wii Mote (especially the last one) is great, but so is the Wii U Gamepad. Sure, the generally build quality was cheap, but it ergonomically it felt great and the weight + gyro made for a great aiming device. And you had the screen for even more controls/maps.

Splatoon 2 is great, but Splatoon with the Gamepad was just soooooo much better.
 

01011001

Gold Member
no, it didn't. it was clearly the best feature of the Wii and a godsend for a ton of games. only problem was the limited range which could lead to jittery movement when too far away from the sensor bar. the IR pointer was fast and responsive, it feels great. the tech behind the IR pointer is essentially the predecessor of VR:



it worked and it worked great. deal with it.

on Wii there was noticable latency and noticable smoothing and low resolution of the pointer movement.

showing examples where the wii remote is used on a PC doesn't disprove that, just fyi
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Joy con felt like a compromise compared to the Wii motion and Nintendo couldn’t abandoned the Wii U’s dual screen.
 
Oi!

The Wii Mote (especially the last one) is great, but so is the Wii U Gamepad. Sure, the generally build quality was cheap, but it ergonomically it felt great and the weight + gyro made for a great aiming device. And you had the screen for even more controls/maps.

Splatoon 2 is great, but Splatoon with the Gamepad was just soooooo much better.
You can be more accurate with gyro than a control stick of course (hence a lot of splatoon players swear by it) but I hate it because of how misaligned with the game screen it can be, having to re center and it’s just not comparable with the responsiveness and accuracy of IR. Also the gamepad wasn’t great ergonomically (it was OK) and a bit bulky for long session gyro use.

My point of the wii u being a mistake goes beyond me saying wiimote > gamepad though. So many things could be different had it been called a wii 2 and not launched with a gamepad.

1. Casuals would not have thought wii u was a damn add on for the wii, if it was called wii 2.

2. That money that went into the gamepad could have went into more powerful hardware so it wouldn’t be as left in the dust by ps4/xb1.

3. Again, that r&d could have furthered the wii mote and nunchuck evolution. Even better motion and ir.

Course we have the switch now so wii u’s financial failure has been made up for but I hate how such a great tech was left to die with the poorly thought out wii U.

I loved ir pointing on fps games on wii but I knew how much better it would be on better hardware with 60fps being common and Wii U was just a tease in that way with only black ops 2 being an option (and not at a stable 60fps either)… so many games would have been cool like metro series with IR. But IR was just a footnote for wii u compared to what it could have been on a wii 2. Instead fps games stayed away from wii u due to weak hardware and low install base.

Well anyway… at least I got to play pikmin 3 with IR :)
 
Last edited:
S

SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
on Wii there was noticable latency and noticable smoothing and low resolution of the pointer movement.

showing examples where the wii remote is used on a PC doesn't disprove that, just fyi
no, but it proves that it is great tech with a lot of possibilities. heck, VR also uses IR. and several pointer centric games that are stellar prove that it works. the latency is barely noticeable in most instances, except if you use Red Steel 1 as a reference perhaps. never noticed latency in Sin&Punishment, Metroid Prime and the likes. its quick and responsive, like it should be.
 

zeomax

Member
I have a crazy CRAZY idea for a joycon!


REAL FULL SIZED ANALOG STICKS THAT AREN'T PURE AND UTTER GARBAGE!!!!

THIS HERE!
Wrong!
If you want real long durable controllers you need to use hall effect sensors instead of potentiometers like SEGA did in the Dreamcast controller.

 

Boglin

Member
I just want the pro controller to be able to split in half and attach to the sides of the switch. The ergonomics of any of the bulkier aftermarket joycons are still too small and uncomfortable for me
 
Their best experiment is Nintendo Labo, which is very fun.
Too bad it is a middle succes (or maybe a flop in their eyes, i don't know).
 

Rat Rage

Member
except that it had noticeable input lag, had low resolution (comparable to a low ridiculously low DPI setting on a mouse) and was prone for interference.

Gyro pointers/aiming is superior in every way except one minor thing the IR pointer does better, and that is repositioning the pointer. but that can be done easily and without issue via a button press or the right stick in games that use gyro aiming

Dude, you are just wrong. Maybe your TV had horrible input lag back then, but mine didn't. I've played hundreds of hours of Conduit online (Halo-like FPS on Wii) and the precision of the aiming - most noticeably when using the sniper rifle/phase rifle - was almost as accurate and fast as a mouse aiming.

Maybe you are talking about the motion sensor accuracy pre "motion plus" or something, I don't know. IR pointing was ery fast and accurate.
 

Tams

Gold Member
You can be more accurate with gyro than a control stick of course (hence a lot of splatoon players swear by it) but I hate it because of how misaligned with the game screen it can be, having to re center and it’s just not comparable with the responsiveness and accuracy of IR. Also the gamepad wasn’t great ergonomically (it was OK) and a bit bulky for long session gyro use.

My point of the wii u being a mistake goes beyond me saying wiimote > gamepad though. So many things could be different had it been called a wii 2 and not launched with a gamepad.

1. Casuals would not have thought wii u was a damn add on for the wii, if it was called wii 2.

2. That money that went into the gamepad could have went into more powerful hardware so it wouldn’t be as left in the dust by ps4/xb1.

3. Again, that r&d could have furthered the wii mote and nunchuck evolution. Even better motion and ir.

Course we have the switch now so wii u’s financial failure has been made up for but I hate how such a great tech was left to die with the poorly thought out wii U.

I loved ir pointing on fps games on wii but I knew how much better it would be on better hardware with 60fps being common and Wii U was just a tease in that way with only black ops 2 being an option (and not at a stable 60fps either)… so many games would have been cool like metro series with IR. But IR was just a footnote for wii u compared to what it could have been on a wii 2. Instead fps games stayed away from wii u due to weak hardware and low install base.

Well anyway… at least I got to play pikmin 3 with IR :)
You make some good points.

Yeah, the gyro did get out of sync sometimes. But of course for many games on the Wii U you could still use Wii Motes.

And yes, marketing for the Wii U was an utter disaster. It seriously came across as an accessory and even seasoned games journalists mistook it as one. You only get one chance for first impressions.

I don't agree on the performance point though. People make a lot of the PS4 and Xbox One, but on the whole they were very much still 30fps boxes too. They didn't have enough additional power to reliably play games at decent resolutions at 60fps.
 
I like my little switch lite, but jfc I hate the joycons. It's tempting to get some other wireless controller to pair with it which sucks for a portable-only version.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Dude, you are just wrong. Maybe your TV had horrible input lag back then, but mine didn't. I've played hundreds of hours of Conduit online (Halo-like FPS on Wii) and the precision of the aiming - most noticeably when using the sniper rifle/phase rifle - was almost as accurate and fast as a mouse aiming.

Maybe you are talking about the motion sensor accuracy pre "motion plus" or something, I don't know. IR pointing was ery fast and accurate.

yeah my CRT had input lag... that's most likely it! 🙃

and no the accuracy is trash compared to well made stick aiming or gyro aiming.

I play shooters daily, I played shooters on every imaginable platform and with every imaginable input device.
Wii Remote, Dual Analog Controllers, Single Analog Controllers (N64, Dreamcast), Controller + Gyro, Keyboard + Mouse, Digital Input only Controllers... on the freaking GameBoy Advance... N-Gage or in VR.

and I can tell you with certainty that you would not be able to play modern Shooters at a competitive level using the Wii Remote's IR pointer. any analog stick user, gyro user or mouse user would destroy you.

the Wii's IR pointer had zero fine precision, was overly smoothed and had noticeable latency. it was also highly positionally sensitive so you had to sit just right to have the best experience.

a well implemented Analog or Gyro aiming beats an IR pointer any day, a Mouse of course is unmatched
 
S

SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
and I can tell you with certainty that you would not be able to play modern Shooters at a competitive level using the Wii Remote's IR pointer. any analog stick user, gyro user or mouse user would destroy you.

the Wii's IR pointer had zero fine precision, was overly smoothed and had noticeable latency. it was also highly positionally sensitive so you had to sit just right to have the best experience.

a well implemented Analog or Gyro aiming beats an IR pointer any day,
a Mouse of course is unmatched
bullshit to all three of those.
 
Dude, you are just wrong. Maybe your TV had horrible input lag back then, but mine didn't. I've played hundreds of hours of Conduit online (Halo-like FPS on Wii) and the precision of the aiming - most noticeably when using the sniper rifle/phase rifle - was almost as accurate and fast as a mouse aiming.

Maybe you are talking about the motion sensor accuracy pre "motion plus" or something, I don't know. IR pointing was ery fast and accurate.
The conduit is cool. Feels like a cross of halo and perfect dark.

I seriously don’t know what this guy is smoking. IR pointer barely had any lag and you can absolutely wreck analog stick players.

Stick players can beat ir pointer users? GTFO lol
 
Last edited:

Rat Rage

Member
yeah my CRT had input lag... that's most likely it! 🙃

and no the accuracy is trash compared to well made stick aiming or gyro aiming.
and I can tell you with certainty that you would not be able to play modern Shooters at a competitive level using the Wii Remote's IR pointer. any analog stick user, gyro user or mouse user would destroy you.

the Wii's IR pointer had zero fine precision, was overly smoothed and had noticeable latency. it was also highly positionally sensitive so you had to sit just right to have the best experience.

Again, you are just completely wrong.

Take a look at this video and pay attention to the sniping kills at 0.40, 0.50 and 1.29 (weapons don't have aim assist in this game)



This level of swiftness isn't possible with an analog controller. You simply can't follow a moving target this quickly.
Also, there is NO LAG whatsoever during any wiimote imputs.

I have to add one important thing, though: not every developer on the Wii implemented IR pointer controls (especially in shooters) equally well. In the case of both Conduit games it is close to perfect, because you could adjust the deadzone and speed of every paramenter. In the end it was possible to get a configuration that was 90% as fast and precise as mouse aiming. I would even say, IMHO; in certain circumstances it was even better (e.g. with sniping) because it was like playing Duck Hunt with a light gun.
 
Last edited:
S

SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
I have to add one important thing, though: not every developer on the Wii implemented IR pointer controls (especially in shooters) equally well. In the case of both Conduit games it is close to perfect, because you could adjust the deadzone and speed of every paramenter. In the end it was possible to get a configuration that was 90% as fast and precise as mouse aiming. I would even say, IMHO; in certain circumstances it was even better (e.g. with sniping) because it was like playing Duck Hunt with a light gun.
that's definitely true, although the only one I thought was awful was Red Steel 1. Everything in this game feels delayed. MoH: Heroes 2 was also ehhh weird gesture controls, the aiming itself was fine though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Again, you are just completely wrong.

Take a look at this video and pay attention to the sniping kills at 0.40, 0.50 and 1.29 (weapons don't have aim assist in this game)



This level of swiftness isn't possible with an analog controller. You simply can't follow a moving target this quickly.
Also, there is NO LAG whatsoever during any wiimote imputs.

I have to add one important thing, though: not every developer on the Wii implemented IR pointer controls (especially in shooters) equally well. In the case of both Conduit games it is close to perfect, because you could adjust the deadzone and speed of every paramenter. In the end it was possible to get a configuration that was 90% as fast and precise as mouse aiming. I would even say, IMHO; in certain circumstances it was even better (e.g. with sniping) because it was like playing Duck Hunt with a light gun.
I honestly wish high voltage made at least one fps for wii u. These games weren’t perfect but they really pushed the wii hardware and they really tried hard with the controls. I was looking forward to the grinder as well before it got canned.

Just one of those times where I wish Nintendo reached an arm out to lend some money… if a studio is really trying for your brand don’t let them drown! But yeah if nintendo let rare go, high voltage was definitely doomed lol.
 
Last edited:

jigglet

Member
Agreed. I just assumed a SNES and GC pad were a shoe in.

Nintendo sure knows how to let opportunity pass by.
 
Top Bottom