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Jim Ryan says Sony’s games ‘could suffer’ by adding them to PlayStation Plus on day one (VCG)

kingfey

Banned

PlayStation CEO Jim Ryan has said in a new interview that Sony‘s games “could suffer” if they were added to PlayStation Plus on day one.

Ryan’s comments appeared in a new interview with GamesIndustry.biz, which was published alongside news of PlayStation’s redesigned PS Plus.

When asked about adding new Sony first-party titles to the service in the game was that Microsoft does with its Xbox Game Pass, Ryan said: “This is not a road that we’ve gone down in the past. And it’s not a road that we’re going to go down with this new service.”

“We feel if we were to do that with the games that we make at PlayStation Studios, that virtuous cycle will be broken. The level of investment that we need to make in our studios would not be possible, and we think the knock-on effect on the quality of the games that we make would not be something that gamers want.”

Ryan also spoke about the changing environment that video games and Sony find themselves in. “Who would have said even four years ago that you would see AAA PlayStation IP being published on PC?” he asked, referring to the PC ports of Horizon Zero Dawn and God of War.

“[We’ve had] great critical success and great commercial success, and everybody has made their peace with that happening and is completely at ease with it,” he claimed. “I look back four years and think nobody would have seen that coming.”

Ryan was also keen to point out that nothing about the new service is set in stone. “All I’m talking to today is the approach we’re taking in the short term. The way our publishing model works right now, it doesn’t make any sense. But things can change very quickly in this industry, as we all know.”

Sony has officially announced its new three-tier subscription service, which will use the PlayStation Plus brand.

As previously reported, the service will combine two of Sony’s existing subscription offerings, PlayStation Plus and PlayStation Now, and phase out the branding of the latter.
 

ParaSeoul

Member
 
They won’t see a large enough financial return, so they’d have to spend less on them, which would result in lower quality games.
Sony spend a lot more on average for their AAA games than Microsoft, and currently have fewer monetisation options.

I currently buy most of Sony’s output. They’d make a lot less money from me if I subscribed to Extra. I’d love to save hundreds, but that’s bad business for Sony, so I get it.
 
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Airbus Jr

Banned
Never understand sony obsession with following xbox gamepass model ( in sony case spartacus) which proven to to be a colosal failure

You can see it yourself on the latest elden ring sales chart ( some 40% on ps, 45% on pc and prob some 12%ish on xbox)

The diehard fanboy will deny this but the numbers dont lie

As these subs are proven to be training gamers not to buy games

Theres good reason why nintendo first party games always become a big sellers
 
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Fbh

Member
I agree. Which is why to me the best subscription model would be one in which games first have a traditional launch and then 6-12 months later they arrive on the subscription service. Which is basically how movies worked before the pandemic. Some would argue that in such a model no one would buy games and everyone would wait for them to come to the service, but if there's one thing I've seen again and again is that people don't like to wait for games they are excited about.

I don't see how big top tier AAA games could be compatible with a cheap subscription service. Same way Netflix has over 200 million subscribers and I don't think we'll ever get a Netflix original movie with the production values of Avengers Infinity War or Dune.
 

Keihart

Gold Member
Funny thing is that the first party quality of PS Studio's games didn't used to have all that much to do with the budgets, in fact, when it was WWS, the games comparatively had small budgets when put side by side with third party games and Xbox exclusives, i'm pretty sure that TLoU had a smaller budget than Halo 3 and Rise of the Tomb Raider IIRC.

That being said, i'm more interested in their legacy library on the new service, i hope the classics come back to the new store.
 
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Ryan was also keen to point out that nothing about the new service is set in stone. “All I’m talking to today is the approach we’re taking in the short term. The way our publishing model works right now, it doesn’t make any sense. But things can change very quickly in this industry, as we all know.

Oh we know.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Makes sense. Playstation and Nintendo arent in the same position as when MS done gamepass.

1. MS has basically infinite momey, they just spent 80billion after a generation where they werent that impressive. Losing or not gaining much profit right now isnt as important as the long term vision.

Nintendo and Playstation cant afford that.

2. Playstation and Nintendo arent hurting in 1st party sales, why would they do this. MS on the other hand needed to do it


Plus all this netflix of gaming… ever heard of the cinema and then blu ray sales?
Im guessing alot of these big cinema titles would not happen if they just had to survive with netflix money. Theres an idea instead of thinking Neflix is gonna fund every blockbuster…. They can fund their own movies and series, not every other film and tv studio releasing stuff.
 
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So Microsoft can have all those games in gamepass and win publisher of the year and people are making a quality excuse for Sony as to why they can’t do the same? Wasn’t Mlb the show in gamepass didnt it chart and do very well on PlayStation and Xbox as well. Sony is just being greedy at this point at least just say you want people to just buy the games but not the quality or that their games will suffer we have clearly seen that is not true.
 

mejin

Member
Sony can attack multiple fronts as long as they continue to bring their single player blockbusters.


They won’t see a large enough financial return, so they’d have to spend less on them, which would result in lower quality games.
Sony spend a lot more on average for their AAA games than Microsoft, and currently have fewer monetisation options.

I currently buy most of Sony’s output. They’d make a lot less money from me if I subscribed to Extra. I’d love to save hundreds, but that’s bad business for Sony, so I get it.

I doubt it. MS spend as much as Sony on their big games, if not more like Halo Infinite. The difference is management. Sony WWS is outstanding in make shit happens.
 
They won’t see a large enough financial return, so they’d have to spend less on them, which would result in lower quality games.
Sony spend a lot more on average for their AAA games than Microsoft, and currently have fewer monetisation options.

I currently buy most of Sony’s output. They’d make a lot less money from me if I subscribed to Extra. I’d love to save hundreds, but that’s bad business for Sony, so I get it.

I assume that's because they don't have the money to burn while they expand the userbase up to where it needs to be? I mean, I doubt first-party games haul in that much profit to begin with versus the value they have attracting people to Sony platforms.

If you had 50 million people paying an average of $10 a month, it's hard to see how that wouldn't cover the costs. Like $6 billion annually can't buy you game development and third-party licenses? It almost certainly could.

So, I assume they don't have time to wait for that scaling - and Microsoft does.
 

jorgejjvr

Member
Just PR speak for we want your $70 still
yep, they want their cake and eat it too

-give us MORE money for a higher tier
-but STILL buy our games day one at $70
-you didnt do the above? dont worry, you will when 2-3 years they come to ps+ and/or pc

Not a bad strategy per say, but they really want to nickle and dime any and every way they can
 

cireza

Member
and everybody has made their peace with that happening and is completely at ease with it
Bryank75 Bryank75 being the most at ease person around about this, without a doubt ;)

Well hopefully the fact that they won't offer games day-one will help them reach first place as Metacritic publisher of the year !
 
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NickFire

Member
In the context of single player games that a platform holder relies on for profitability, I really don't see how this would even be debatable. But if the platform holder has a vast war chest from non-gaming revenue, all bets are off. All bets are off with games involving MTX as well.
 

Roxkis_ii

Gold Member
Are you trying to convince us or yourself that Microsoft has good games?

I feel sad when I see someone post stuff like this, because as soon halo and Forza came out, they were forgotten like a fart in the wind. One would think if people where organically excited about games, they would still come up once in a while.

Like, we still see people talking about Horzion and GT7, but if you look in the halo thread, it's a sad situation. As for Forza, I only see people bring it up to show off its score. Real interesting.
 
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I don't see it. We've seen with Game Pass that games aren't suffering. How do budgets for Sony games compare to Microsoft? I would assume for the AAA stuff it's very similar.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I assume that's because they don't have the money to burn while they expand the userbase up to where it needs to be? I mean, I doubt first-party games haul in that much profit to begin with versus the value they have attracting people to Sony platforms.

If you had 50 million people paying an average of $10 a month, it's hard to see how that wouldn't cover the costs. Like $6 billion annually can't buy you game development and third-party licenses? It almost certainly could.

So, I assume they don't have time to wait for that scaling - and Microsoft does.
They don't want to lose tons of money by giving away games in a business model that isn't proven in gaming
 

Banjo64

Member
Like, we still see people talking about Horzion and GT7, but if you look in the halo thread, it's a sad situation. As for Forza, I only see people bring it up to show off its score. Real interesting.
Wow.

People still talk about the 2 games that came out within the last 5 and a half weeks, compared to 2 games that came out in November last year.

I’m really surprised.
 

Elginer

Member
I’m fine with this, just hope the top tier gives bigger discounts to digital and some great older games. I really would love to play Alundra again
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Just PR speak for we want your $70 still

Yeah lets all make less profit right?

If the gamepass route was gonna make more money, then PR’s greedy boss would go that route and make more money.
Or maybe some fans on neogaf know better lol

Yeah Im not a fan of the extra $10 but at least the games go on sale. Nintendo still releasing much cheaper to develop games and never going on sale. Im still waiting for certain games to go on sale, Im not paying £50 for Pikmin 3 when I have it on the Wii U and it cost much less
 

351

Member
lol Jesus Christ everyone on here latches on to any excuse. A Sony press release is like religion to the fan boys on here. All of a sudden everyone is an expert on gaming budgets and economics. Sony wants to charge for a service and STILL be able to get the $70 for any first party release, the double dip. It's very simple.
 
It's too early to make that call
What do we need to wait for? One flop? We've had a string of great games coming out on Game Pass for a while now. I guess we can just keep holding our breath until one game releases that is truly terrible and you can say told you so. Seems like that won't be a common occurrence, but we'll see! And if it does happen you can always unsubscribe. The beauty of subscription services!
 

Kokoloko85

Member
It's too early to make that call

MS has too much money to spend, there not gonna use just gamepass profits to make their 1st party games. Other yeah you’de be right.

They just spend 80 billion. I dont think they’ve made close to $80billion profits with xbox, so they will keep spending big for gamepass And 1st party titles.

Now if there games are successful is a different story, money can’t always buy you success.
 

K' Dash

Member
Yeah lets all make less profit right?

If the gamepass route was gonna make more money, then PR’s greedy boss would go that route and make more money.
Or maybe some fans on neogaf know better lol

Yeah Im not a fan of the extra $10 but at least the games go on sale. Nintendo still releasing much cheaper to develop games and never going on sale. Im still waiting for certain games to go on sale, Im not paying £50 for Pikmin 3 when I have it on the Wii U and it cost much less

why do you give a fuck about the profits of a corporation? lol

The competition still has a better offering, I don't give a fuck if they're bleeding money. The only reaction this announcement got from me is laughter.
 

Warablo

Member
Never understand sony obsession with following xbox gamepass model ( in sony case spartacus) which proven to to be a colosal failure

You can see it yourself on the latest elden ring sales chart ( some 40% on ps, 45% on pc and prob some 12%ish on xbox)

The diehard fanboy will deny this but the numbers dont lie

As these subs are proven to be training gamers not to buy games

Theres good reason why nintendo first party games always become a big sellers
This has nothing to do with Game Pass if those numbers are true. From Software games usually always sell more on Playstation anyway, let alone when Xbox lost a lot of its market share during Xbox One.
 
Sony can attack multiple fronts as long as they continue to bring their single player blockbusters.




I doubt it. MS spend as much as Sony on their big games, if not more like Halo Infinite. The difference is management. Sony WWS is outstanding in make shit happens.
That’s why I said on average. For every Halo, Sony are spending big bucks on Horizon, God of War, The Last of Us, Ghost of Tsushima, Gran Turismo, Returnal, Spider-Man, Ratchet and Clank etc. Their average spend is way higher with fewer monetisation options.
 

Ogbert

Member
That may well be true.

The problem Sony may have (note that I am using the word ‘may’) is that in three years time, MS could be pumping out equally polished titles on Gamepass. It would only take one or two absolute hits, to make Sony’s position harder to justify.

I’ll obviously stick with PlayStation as that’s where my friends play and I am invested in their system. But this is about kids who are 11 to 15 now. What system will they want in a few years time?

And I’ll say it again. The £70 price tag for first party can piss right off.
 

Lupin25

Member
That’s why I said on average. For every Halo, Sony are spending big bucks on Horizon, God of War, The Last of Us, Ghost of Tsushima, Gran Turismo, Returnal, Spider-Man, Ratchet and Clank etc. Their average spend is way higher with fewer monetisation options.

Plus, they’re single-player.

Edit: Even less of a chance of recurring monetization with little to no online elements.
 
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Outside of recent acquisitions, Microsoft really didn't have the development studios to compete with Sony (still don't to be frank).

You look at the investments and growth of 343 or PlayGround/Turn10 and that is basically all Microsoft had.

Look at Sony

Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica, Polyphony Digital, Guerrilla Games.

There isn't a studio there that Sony would trade for Microsoft's Studios.

Now then, Microsoft will do well with iD and Infinity Ward but Infinity Ward has been in decline. So you look at Bethesda and Blizzard and it helps move the needle.

Sony meanwhile has been looking at other ways to improve its studios. Adding support studios, PC port studios, and some specific investments in partnerships. As well as the obvious Bungie news. Bluepoint, Housemarque, Haven, Firesprite.... we'll see how these buys play out for them.
 

SlimySnake

Member
He's right. You look at Forza and Halo's engagement numbers and they are around 20 million each, and yet neither game finished above top 20 in NPD. Forza was literally ranked 20th and Halo was nowhere to be found after charting 2nd in December.

Meanwhile Miles was ranked 6th in its SECOND year on the market. Mario Kark ranked 7th in its 7th year on the market. MS can eat that loss of sales because their main business is services and they make billions in profits every month from other products. Sony cant. Sony only makes money from their insurance business, and playstation. Everything else loses money or breaks even other than maybe cameras. They rely on Horizon, GT7 and GOW selling $300-500 million worth of copies in the first year each. Thats a billion to $1.5 billion in lost revenue.

This whole subscription nonsense is making people think services are more important than games. No, games ARE the product. You dont go to a Michelin Star resturnat for their service. You go there for their food. The food is the product. The Chef is the product. No one gives a shit about the waiters or bus boys. Sony studios are becoming very unproductive taking 5 fucking years to make last gen games. They cant afford to give them away for $10 a month. If a studio costs $20 million per year to run that's $100 million for one game. The marketing costs are typically the same as production costs so we are looking at $200 million products. They cannot survive in a streaming model.

What might end up happening is what we are seeing on Disney. Especially the Marvel stuff. 6 episode long seasons. 30 minute episodes. I grew up watching 24 episodes a season. At least HBO has 10-12 hour long episodes. WTF is this half an hour 6 episode bullshit. How would this work in gaming? DLCs every year instead of full games? Episodic trash? MS had to go buy COD and Bethesda for literally $80 billion just to fill their empty months on gamepass. Sony doesnt have that kind of money.

I am glad Sony is treating this shit like an afterthought. Focus should be on making games, not services.
 
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adamsapple

Gold Member

SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
BTW are the games timed like PSnow / Gamepass 3rd party or stay like PS+?
 

iHaunter

Member
Never understand sony obsession with following xbox gamepass model ( in sony case spartacus) which proven to to be a colosal failure

You can see it yourself on the latest elden ring sales chart ( some 40% on ps, 45% on pc and prob some 12%ish on xbox)

The diehard fanboy will deny this but the numbers dont lie

As these subs are proven to be training gamers not to buy games

Theres good reason why nintendo first party games always become a big sellers
How is something that was just announced a colossal failure? What? Jim bang your wife?
 
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adamsapple

Gold Member
Jim Ryan literally said that though. They are repeating what he said would happen to Sony.

Go argue with YoJimbo.

Jimbo can say whatever he wants, I'm just pointing out to that user that they're immediately agreeing with something as a fact for one party and at the same time biting for time for the other. As of yet, we have not seen game pass having an impact on any games development.

Halo: Infinite's development has a pretty exhaustive expose by Schrier why it's development was in a bad state, it had nothing to do with a subscription model.
 
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Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
What do we need to wait for? One flop? We've had a string of great games coming out on Game Pass for a while now. I guess we can just keep holding our breath until one game releases that is truly terrible and you can say told you so. Seems like that won't be a common occurrence, but we'll see! And if it does happen you can always unsubscribe. The beauty of subscription services!
I'm not saying it'll happen for sure but these subscriptions have to gain enough subscribers 1st before we can fully judge them. Some say Netflix's quality has gone down over the years with just a few golden nuggets here and there
 
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