• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Jim Ryan will go unsung for his contributions in keeping Playstation as a platform competitive

Not just him, but the policies and general direction PlayStation has chosen to go in such as abandoning their Japanese traditional roots, traditional studios such as SCEJ, and more. Jim Ryan, in his actions, does not respect PlayStation's history so why should I? By proxy, Sony giving PlayStation to America has changed the focus of the platform from a delicate, unique balance of western and Japanese titles. It's why PlayStation has always been on top by virtue of the eclectic assortment of titles they provided. Both Parappa (Japanese) and Siphon Filter (western) were PlayStation titles. The diversity of their studio alignment alotted the PS brand to be as mainstream (Uncharted) or as experimental (Flower) as they wanted. This change in priorities to chase after western eyeballs in particular and American dollars specifically at the expense of PS' diverse portfolio goes against PS tradition. PlayStation always invested in properties that were experimental just as much as they invested in what could be popular. It's why they were always my favorite platform. Even their mainstream investments like Final Fantasy VII (original) were massive risks. A full fledged marketing campaign for a turn-based RPG in 1997? On consoles? Outside of Japan? Modern Sony, at Jim Ryan's charge, is only invested in creating Hollywood-esque romps at the expense of the PlayStation branded experimentalism which tied with their mainstream pursuits was their bread and butter. Sony published games like Rule of Rose, Journey, Flower, ICO, Demon's Souls, Tokyo Jungle, Gravity Rush as well as games like Uncharted, Killzone, Gran Turismo. Jim Ryan at his own admission has been a part of that shift given his remarks about Backwards Compatibility being useless and the mere notion that playing old games is pointless. A man like that leading the PS brand does a lot of damage undoing the values that PlayStation has had since its inception and deserves scorn and not a reward. I will not purchase a PS5 until they reverse course and respect their roots.

But sure, label me an Xbox fanboy. I'll play on Series X and Nintendo Switch instead. Fuck Jim Ryan.
Although I see you play a whole lot of Halo based on your post history, I can’t call you a fanboy. I agree with most of what you say, but the industry changing is not just Sony. All the consoles are tailoring their games to western audiences. I live in America, but would personally much rather have the old PlayStation of rpg and risk taking, however, that’s just not the way the industry is any more. Times and things change, it’s how all entertainment has worked, including music and movies. Feel free to blame Jim Ryan, but the only way to stay relevant is to change with the times.
 

NahaNago

Member
I'm going to get hated for saying this, but people claim to hate him for various reasons, but deep inside they hated him for bringing exclusives to PC, they just doesn't have the audacity to admit it cause in the current environment it will earns them the title of fanboy.

But just think about it, its the most rational thing for Sony to do now, cause due to supply constraint for the PS5 hardware, what do you expect them to do? They had to find other platform to sell their software.

There is a possibility in the future after their hardware had larger user pool, they might going back to their exclusive business once again, who knows, in the end hardware sales matters because 30% cut from every third party games sold and bunch of subscription services are their main source of risk free income (or else they could just became a software company like Sega, why even bother with hardware), contrary to what people believe first party software is there to function as an incentive to increase their user pool, making profit on their own is a secondary objective. But in the current supply constraint situation, they have no realistic means to expand their user base, but all the software studios still needs to pay their salaries, even if its a temporary solution, its a good idea to sell their software to other platform.

This is just my personal take.

Jim Ryan will go unsung for his contributions in keeping PC as a platform competitive. :messenger_beaming:

For me it has mostly the communication problems they seem to have had most of this gen. It feels like they have been pretty silent for most of this gen. Plus the gaas as a service talk has been weird as well. Like why are you talking about so many future gaas stuff when you are known for your single player games. Talk about each gaas game as the marketing time for it comes along so that you don't have bad pr for pushing more in that direction.

For the whole pc thing it was just because they felt they were leaving money on the table. I thought console sales have only been a little bit slower than the ps4 and we actually have a lot of cross-gen titles at the start of this gen versus last gen. Sure they were hoping for a lot more console sales originally and probably blowing xbox out the water before the blizzard acquisition happened, but hey covid happens.
 
Last edited:

Three

Member
The last mainstream home console that seriously targeted the Japanese market (other than Nintendo) was the PS3 in 2006

Japan didn't leave anything they had nowhere to go because PlayStation has intentionally shifted away from the Japanese audience

From moving the HQ to north america and changing the O/X in Japan

Companies like Konami, Capcom are responding to the shift that PlayStation themselves initiated

Numerous Japanese publishers have moved Japanese centric games over to Switch and PC because it was clear they would have very little support on PlayStation

The idea that Japan was suddenly uninterested in home consoles around the exact time PlayStation shifted focus is complete rubbish

How so considering the shift of the HQ to the US happened after the Japanese non-handheld console market had all but collapsed already?

What happened at the beginning of the PS4 gen where Japanese games were being made but not selling.
If the Japanese market had shifted to PC because of PS where are the big Japanese PC exclusive games that don't make it to PS? Switch is a handheld, Japan has never had a problem with handhelds but the Wii U failed even in Japan.

No company just abandons great selling products for the heck of it. The idea that PS just decided to disown Japan is ludicrous. PS did not cause the home console decline in Japan. Japan just shifted to mobile and portable and you saw Sonys last struggle with the PS3 there. Nintendo survived because they dominate the handheld market.

 
Last edited:

Himuro

Member
Although I see you play a whole lot of Halo based on your post history, I can’t call you a fanboy. I agree with most of what you say, but the industry changing is not just Sony. All the consoles are tailoring their games to western audiences. I live in America, but would personally much rather have the old PlayStation of rpg and risk taking, however, that’s just not the way the industry is any more. Times and things change, it’s how all entertainment has worked, including music and movies. Feel free to blame Jim Ryan, but the only way to stay relevant is to change with the times.
I am playing Halo series for the first time. I gave that much of my gaming time to PlayStation. Halo has revived my love for gaming.
 
Last edited:

Gamerguy84

Member
If you are talking about Gamepass than Sony has been giving away games since what, 2010? 2011?

And in neither case is it "free" lol.

This is implying that Sega was appealing to (then) hardcore gamers. They were appealing to Arcade and graphic aficionados. All the hard core complex guys were on computer or PS/Xbox.


If you are talking about Gamepass than Sony has been giving away games since what, 2010? 2011?

And in neither case is it "free" lol.



In Japan there's actually an open for another console competitor, that's how bad it is for home consoles from all reports.



Some of the best selling games are still those games that you can beat in 10-20 hours in the last 5 years, one of which being an orange bandicoots remake collection. Which outside of Mario is the best selling Platform game in, eh what, 10 years?
Yes I do mean gamepass. Giving away a couple games monthly of a certain age as a perk is a lot different than giving away the library including all first party. Not to mention including others sub service under your umbrella.
 
Outside of game releases between 2020 and now ( which were all in developement before he took charge ) I really don’t like anything Playstation has been doing. PS+ is in a better place but everything else is kinda shite.

He’s done alright, console sales wise despite covid and stock issues, but everything else is poop for me.
I know of 3 games coming in 2023/2024, I have zero idea what else sony is working on or doing. Not a fan of the PC stuff, not a fan of letting all your Japanese talent leave, not a fan of 3rd party exclusives going.
So not sure what I need to be thankful of Jim for?
Exactly. Those games have being green-lighted by his predecessors. Not sure if we'll get more of those games (Demons souls, Returnal, Ratchet) in the future. Seems we'll get mainly Ubisoft-type open-worlds and Activision-type shooters now.
 
Exactly. Those games have being green-lighted by his predecessors. Not sure if we'll get more of those games (Demons souls, Returnal, Ratchet) in the future. Seems we'll get mainly Ubisoft-type open-worlds and Activision-type shooters now.

Jim Ryan doesn’t green light games, Hermen Hulst does
 

SlimySnake

Member
Absolutely delusional post though I did sense some sarcasm in there so this might be a joke post.

If not then gotta love how the OP is celebrating a man for keeping playstation competitive even though the Playstation was literally THE biggest gaming brand in both sales and critical acclaim when Jim Ryan took over in 2019. In 3 years, he's managed to finish dead last in sales in NA in the last 3 quarters. Quite the accomplishment.

His PC adventures produced a laughable $80 million last year in a year when GOW and Days Gone were released on PC. $28 million and $22 million in revenues. Wow. What a massive achievement! In comparison, TLOU2 did $240 million in 3 days on PS4 alone.

And now he's going to chase the GaaS trend. Only problem is that the GaaS trend peaked last gen with everyone from EA, Square Enix and Ubisoft producing bombs like Anthem, Avengers, Ghost recon 2 and Division 2 at the tail end of the generation despite having a bigger userbase. Only a select few games ever make money. Trying to chase Fornite money is as naive as thinking you can make a CoD clone and find success. They tried that in the PS3 gen and simply couldnt get anywhere close to CoD numbers with Resistance MP, KZ MP, MAG, Starhawk, Ratchet MP, Uncharted MP and TLOU MP. Thats why they switch to single player only games and reached 20 million sales with several of their big franchises like TLOU, Uncharted, GoW, Horizon and Spiderman.

Now he's taking a fomula that worked, an audience that his predecessors cultivated, and throwing it all away to chase trends like Bobby kotick. PS First party sales are just 60% of what they were last quarter this time last year. Despite the fact that more and more PS5 consoles are being sold. He has effectively nullified first party.

None of this wouldve mattered if he had released some next gen games that pushed boundaries in visuals or physics or gameplay mechanics. But everything since Ratchet last year has been more of the same. If Spiderman 2 does miraculously come out in holiday 2023 without a 'covid' delay, that would still mean that PS5 owners wouldve gone 2.5 years without a true next gen first party game since Ratchet in June 2021. What an unsung hero this man is!
 

yurinka

Member
How so considering the shift of the HQ to the US happened after the Japanese non-handheld console market had all but collapsed already?

What happened at the beginning of the PS4 gen where Japanese games were being made but not selling.
If you talk about Japan Studio games, they didn't sell since PS1. They never had any big sales hit. Gran Turismo sold well in PS4. If you mean Japanaseee ranking of physical sales not featuring a lot of PS games, it's because in the first year of phisical sales worldwide were a 80% of PS sales. Now they are a 20% while in Switch the percent of physical sales remains higher.

When talking about worldwide sales in PS also there are way more big quality games every year compared to Switch, meaning that even if there are way more games sold in total for PS, these sales in PS get spread across way more games so each specific game get less units sold, while in Switch its sales get focused on a few games. If you go to the Nintendo IR site you'll see that the top 10 selling (Nintendo) games for Switch sold around 30% of the total games for Switch. When talking about Japanese sales it's the same, all these things I mentioned combined make PS game sales being less visible if you only look at a few dozen selling games in Japan. On top of that we have to consider that Japan always had a bigger preference for portables than the rest of the world, and this generation Nintendo has the monopoly of portables (in addition to shift to mobile and F2P more than the west did).

The western console market grew a lot while not Japan. So the Japanese market became less relevant than it was for all the publishers (including Sony) wiith the exception of Nintendo, since Japan is still big for them. For that reason all non Nintendo Japanese studio shifted to make games with a more global appeal and stopped making -or at least make less- Japan only focused games.

For these same reasons all known Japanese 3rd parties support PS and had at least one PS exclusive, while the number for Switch is way smaller.

If the Japanese market had shifted to PC because of PS where are the big Japanese PC exclusive games that don't make it to PS? Switch is a handheld, Japan has never had a problem with handhelds but the Wii U failed even in Japan.

No company just abandons great selling products for the heck of it. The idea that PS just decided to disown Japan is ludicrous. PS did not cause the home console decline in Japan. Japan just shifted to mobile and portable and you saw Sonys last struggle with the PS3 there. Nintendo survived because they dominate the handheld market.
Japanese market is a small percent of global market revenue for consoles, and even smaller for PC. Players more than to shift to PC they moved to mobile, where Japan has reprents a bigger revenue percent. WiiU failed worldwide. But yes, due to their lifestyle of long commutations in train Japanese people have a preference for mobile, portables and Switch.

Sony didn't abandon Japan, this is a baseless lie. Since some months before of the PS5 launch they had a big chips shortage for PS4 and PS5 so they focused the smaller amount of shipments they could do to their main markets (which are EU and NA, not Japan), and same happened to MS (they focused their shipments in USA, their main market). Switch sales weren't affected by chips shortages, never have been a ton of periods of sold out consoles everywhere as happened with Sony and Series X.

This graph is a beautiful drawing but doesn't match the reality. Switch isn't selling like DS and Wii combined at all. DS and Wii combined sold 255.65M units. Switch sold until now 107.65M and passed its yearly sales peak that all consoles have, where after it all consoles keep declining their hardware sales year after year.
Exactly. Those games have being green-lighted by his predecessors. Not sure if we'll get more of those games (Demons souls, Returnal, Ratchet) in the future. Seems we'll get mainly Ubisoft-type open-worlds and Activision-type shooters now.
The PS Studios published games get greenlighted by Hermen Hulst and his team, not Jim. The indies supported by PlayStation Indies get curated by Shuhei Yoshida and his team, not Jim Ryan. The predecesor of Hermen was Yoshida.

Hermen said he's proud of the games they published including those smaller and more unique games like Dreams, Sackboy, Astro or Death Stranding and that they'll make games. Regarding Demon's Souls and Returnal, obviously they got happy with them since Jim and Hermen both those studios after publishing them.

They are also happy with GT7 and MLB since they are better than ever, and said that Wolverine won't be an open world game, in the same way Ragnarok isn't an open world game. Plus Sony also publishes PlayLink and VR games that aren't open world. Sony publishes a lot of different type of games and they'll continue doing so. Absolutely nothing leads to think they'll make open world games only, this idea goes against the facts we havee.
His PC adventures produced a laughable $80 million last year in a year when GOW and Days Gone were released on PC. $28 million and $22 million in revenues. Wow. What a massive achievement! In comparison, TLOU2 did $240 million in 3 days on PS4 alone.
TLOU2 wasn't a full priced port of an old game for a platform where games sell during years but when heavily discounted. It was a brand new game with crazy reviews and hype due to being sequel of one of the best games, and had Sony's record for a launch, because was also released during the covid lockdowns bump where a ton of people was at home. It also had the biggest amount of people working on a game in Sony's history, meaning that it's pretty likely their most expensive development so pretty likely also the most heavily marketed game ever.

And GoW only is contunted there for 2 months and a half. They plan to make $300M on PC this year, which btw most of them are profits since ports are so cheap to make compared to a full game. To release a handful ports of old games on PC are a very profitable side business for them.
 
Last edited:

Three

Member
If you talk about Japan Studio games, they didn't sell since PS1. They never had any big sales hit. Gran Turismo sold well in PS4. If you mean Japanaseee ranking of physical sales not featuring a lot of PS games, it's because in the first year of phisical sales worldwide were a 80% of PS sales. Now they are a 20% while in Switch the percent of physical sales remains higher.

When talking about worldwide sales in PS also there are way more big quality games every year compared to Switch, meaning that even if there are way more games sold in total for PS, these sales in PS get spread across way more games so each specific game get less units sold, while in Switch its sales get focused on a few games. If you go to the Nintendo IR site you'll see that the top 10 selling (Nintendo) games for Switch sold around 30% of the total games for Switch. When talking about Japanese sales it's the same, all these things I mentioned combined make PS game sales being less visible if you only look at a few dozen selling games in Japan. On top of that we have to consider that Japan always had a bigger preference for portables than the rest of the world, and this generation Nintendo has the monopoly of portables (in addition to shift to mobile and F2P more than the west did).

The western console market grew a lot while not Japan. So the Japanese market became less relevant than it was for all the publishers (including Sony) wiith the exception of Nintendo, since Japan is still big for them. For that reason all non Nintendo Japanese studio shifted to make games with a more global appeal and stopped making -or at least make less- Japan only focused games.

For these same reasons all known Japanese 3rd parties support PS and had at least one PS exclusive, while the number for Switch is way smaller.


Japanese market is a small percent of global market revenue for consoles, and even smaller for PC. Players more than to shift to PC they moved to mobile, where Japan has reprents a bigger revenue percent. WiiU failed worldwide. But yes, due to their lifestyle of long commutations in train Japanese people have a preference for mobile, portables and Switch.

Sony didn't abandon Japan, this is a baseless lie. Since some months before of the PS5 launch they had a big chips shortage for PS4 and PS5 so they focused the smaller amount of shipments they could do to their main markets (which are EU and NA, not Japan), and same happened to MS (they focused their shipments in USA, their main market). Switch sales weren't affected by chips shortages, never have been a ton of periods of sold out consoles everywhere as happened with Sony and Series X.


This graph is a beautiful drawing but doesn't match the reality. Switch isn't selling like DS and Wii combined at all. DS and Wii combined sold 255.65M units. Switch sold until now 107.65M and passed its yearly sales peak that all consoles have, where after it all consoles keep declining their hardware sales year after year.
The graph has it lower than Wii+ DS and the rest is a forecast. I was only showing that Nintendos dominated handheld and their console sales were replaced by a hybrid
 

Three

Member
Absolutely delusional post though I did sense some sarcasm in there so this might be a joke post.

If not then gotta love how the OP is celebrating a man for keeping playstation competitive even though the Playstation was literally THE biggest gaming brand in both sales and critical acclaim when Jim Ryan took over in 2019. In 3 years, he's managed to finish dead last in sales in NA in the last 3 quarters. Quite the accomplishment.

His PC adventures produced a laughable $80 million last year in a year when GOW and Days Gone were released on PC. $28 million and $22 million in revenues. Wow. What a massive achievement! In comparison, TLOU2 did $240 million in 3 days on PS4 alone.

And now he's going to chase the GaaS trend. Only problem is that the GaaS trend peaked last gen with everyone from EA, Square Enix and Ubisoft producing bombs like Anthem, Avengers, Ghost recon 2 and Division 2 at the tail end of the generation despite having a bigger userbase. Only a select few games ever make money. Trying to chase Fornite money is as naive as thinking you can make a CoD clone and find success. They tried that in the PS3 gen and simply couldnt get anywhere close to CoD numbers with Resistance MP, KZ MP, MAG, Starhawk, Ratchet MP, Uncharted MP and TLOU MP. Thats why they switch to single player only games and reached 20 million sales with several of their big franchises like TLOU, Uncharted, GoW, Horizon and Spiderman.

Now he's taking a fomula that worked, an audience that his predecessors cultivated, and throwing it all away to chase trends like Bobby kotick. PS First party sales are just 60% of what they were last quarter this time last year. Despite the fact that more and more PS5 consoles are being sold. He has effectively nullified first party.

None of this wouldve mattered if he had released some next gen games that pushed boundaries in visuals or physics or gameplay mechanics. But everything since Ratchet last year has been more of the same. If Spiderman 2 does miraculously come out in holiday 2023 without a 'covid' delay, that would still mean that PS5 owners wouldve gone 2.5 years without a true next gen first party game since Ratchet in June 2021. What an unsung hero this man is!
Dead last in what shifting units there instead of the globe?
 

TheTony316

Member
The decision to remove the PS Store from PS3 and PSP on PS3 happened under Ryan's tenure. The entire crux of my massive post, which you are freely choosing to ignore is how modern PlayStation, under Ryan's tenure, does not respect the history of PlayStation. Ryan himself, as my own post, has said he doesn't understand the point in playing old games. The only reason they reversed course was the immense backlash they received as the playstation store is the only method you can play some of those titles and with PS5 not having BC beyond PS4? RIP. Those are Jim and his teams decisions. I shouldn't have to hold your hand on this issue. Modern PlayStation is less concerned with PlayStation's famous diversity and are more interested in chasing similar big budget movie like experiences. Their disdain for Japanese titles especially during a time of growing love and re-appreciation for Japanese games is utterly daft and is pushing a lot of those games to a more kind atmosphere in Nintendo. Even famous studios that had intense loyalty to Sony such as Atlus are putting their games on all platforms. Soul Hackers 2 will be on all systems and not just PlayStation for example. PS5 changed the circle button to cross for confirm in Japan despite a nearly 30 year tradition of circle being confirm just to universalize it towards western gaming.

To act like people have no reason to dislike Ryan is to be completely ignorant of his own words and actions.


Ryan is a suit and not a creative who does not understand his brand, his base, or their history. Continue to evade the point all you like.

It won't be on Switch.
 
Last edited:

wvnative

Member
can you elaborate?

Being extremely resistant to free upgrades beyond miles morales (see horizon controversy, even after they backtracked on that, they removed the PS4 version from the PS5 store to keep people from using it. You needed a PS4 or the webstore to get it.)

GT7 MTX controversy

The sorry state of PS Premium, in fairness, Extra is good, but the classic games locked behind the highest tier is a joke. The selection is laughable, and the emulation is often worse than what they had on PS3.

Actively blocking people from using last gen controllers on PS5 games (Yes I know this has been the norm for decades, but the competition isn't doing this now and ONLY Sony is actively going out of it's way to block adapters) This is both a huge barrier for people with disabilities, as well as a huge financial barrier for normal folks being forced to buy multiple $70 controllers for local multiplayer.

Bare basic QOL features from PS4 still missing nearly two years after launch
 

yurinka

Member
And now he's going to chase the GaaS trend. Only problem is that the GaaS trend peaked last gen with everyone from EA, Square Enix and Ubisoft producing bombs like Anthem, Avengers, Ghost recon 2 and Division 2 at the tail end of the generation despite having a bigger userbase. Only a select few games ever make money. Trying to chase Fornite money is as naive as thinking you can make a CoD clone and find success. They tried that in the PS3 gen and simply couldnt get anywhere close to CoD numbers with Resistance MP, KZ MP, MAG, Starhawk, Ratchet MP, Uncharted MP and TLOU MP. Thats why they switch to single player only games and reached 20 million sales with several of their big franchises like TLOU, Uncharted, GoW, Horizon and Spiderman.
Bullshit, facts say GaaS are way more successful now than before and that they keep growing their market share. Ton of companies made successful GaaS, including Sony, EA, Square, Ubisoft, Bungie, Activision, Take 2 or Capcom to name a few.

Little Big Planet, MLB, Gran Turismo 7, Street Fighter V, Destiny 2 and The Division 2 are a few examples of very successful GaaS games, they aren't related at all to be cheap Fortnite or CoD clones. Cheap CoD unsuccessful clones if something were Killzone or Resistance. The Division 2 simply wasn't as successful as the Divison 1, which had record of fastest selling IP ever until Destiny got it. GaaS only means that the game gets periodical post launch updates with tweaks and fixes, new features and content.

Sony said they will do more GaaS games, but that also will make more non GaaS game than now.

Now he's taking a fomula that worked, an audience that his predecessors cultivated, and throwing it all away to chase trends like Bobby kotick.
All companies chase must market trends if they don't want to go bankrupt or become irrelevant.

PS First party sales are just 60% of what they were last quarter this time last year. Despite the fact that more and more PS5 consoles are being sold. He has effectively nullified first party.
Bullshit, they sold less 1st party games because this year they only released MLB while last year they released MLB, Ratchet, Returnal and Days Gone PC. In 2022 instead Sony has their big releases (which will sell way more than their 2021 releases) in other quarters.

None of this wouldve mattered if he had released some next gen games that pushed boundaries in visuals or physics or gameplay mechanics. But everything since Ratchet last year has been more of the same. If Spiderman 2 does miraculously come out in holiday 2023 without a 'covid' delay, that would still mean that PS5 owners wouldve gone 2.5 years without a true next gen first party game since Ratchet in June 2021. What an unsung hero this man is!
Insomniac traditionally releases at least a game per year with a few years as exception. One of them is 2022, probably because Spider-Man 2 was planned for this year but got moved to 2023 due to covid (and because their 3 top 2021 first party games were delayed to 2022 due to covid and mixed with all 3rd party releaeses 2022 was going to be too crowded.

This "true next gen game" is ridiculous and doesn't make sense. Big AAA games released in 2022 were started to be developed arond 2017 or 2018, and maybe in some cases even before. These games and their engines couldn't be designed for next gen because they didn't get the specs and first early prototype devkits until 2019 or so. Many key techology inside PS5 didn't exist at all at 2017 or 2018.

Once they get the specs and devkits, that new tech allows the paradigm shift explained by Cerny and shown in the UE5 tech demos. It's the biggest paradigm shift since moving from 2D to 3D, it changes many things of the techniques and tools and workflow inside game development, and many things that open the door to other level design etc. They will need many years to make engines and tools to take advantage of all this plus to prototype and test stuff to see how far they can go, and to change the workflow of these teams. And then, to develop games using that and add like 4-6 years of development.

We're years away from seeing "true next games" taking advantage of the new UE5 and future similar next gen engines because it's impossible to see them before (first version of UE5 got released this year, so no game released this year could have been designed and optimized to take advantage of it because didn't have time to it). What we're seeing now is basically previous gen games with and additional layer of paint on top with some raytracing, extra framerate or resolution and shorter loading times and little more because at this point is impossible to have more.
 

JimRyanGOAT

Member
When Sony has the Single Player IP’s alongside titans multiplayers IP’s

People will realize how great Jim Ryan was for diversifying PlayStations catalogue

Can’t just rely on god of war and Naughty Dog for the next decade
 

yurinka

Member
Being extremely resistant to free upgrades beyond miles morales (see horizon controversy, even after they backtracked on that, they removed the PS4 version from the PS5 store to keep people from using it. You needed a PS4 or the webstore to get it.)

GT7 MTX controversy
These 'controversies' are only a few guys in forums not representative of many millions of players that thesee games have.

The sorry state of PS Premium, in fairness, Extra is good, but the classic games locked behind the highest tier is a joke. The selection is laughable, and the emulation is often worse than what they had on PS3.
Uncharted The Nathan Drake Collection, Wipeout Omega Collection, God of War games, Gravity Rush Remastered, Ico, Tekken 2 and a ton of classics. Premium has a ton of great games, if you don't like them don't buy it.

And sure, with time they'll increase its catalog and emulators, we know they are working on it.

Bare basic QOL features from PS4 still missing nearly two years after launch
Which are these missing "basic QOL features"?
When Sony has the Single Player IP’s alongside titans multiplayers IP’s

People will realize how great Jim Ryan was for diversifying PlayStations catalogue

Can’t just rely on god of war and Naughty Dog for the next decade
Sony also has Spider-Man, Wolverine, Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima, Gran Turismo, Destiny, Death Stranding, MLB and whatever Bend, Firesprite, Bluepoint, Haven, Firewalk, Deviation, Team Asobi, London, Media Molecule etc. are doing. Plus don't forget multiple upcoming new IPs from Bungie and the VR stuff.

Sony already had a very diverse catalog with many unique experiencies (let's not forget Pixel Opus, who now is making a AAA game with help from Sony Animations) but now they will be even more diverse by increasing their bet on MP and GaaS (while also increasing their bet on traditional non GaaS SP games).
 
Last edited:

Denton

Member
Being extremely resistant to free upgrades beyond miles morales (see horizon controversy, even after they backtracked on that, they removed the PS4 version from the PS5 store to keep people from using it. You needed a PS4 or the webstore to get it.)

GT7 MTX controversy

The sorry state of PS Premium, in fairness, Extra is good, but the classic games locked behind the highest tier is a joke. The selection is laughable, and the emulation is often worse than what they had on PS3.

Actively blocking people from using last gen controllers on PS5 games (Yes I know this has been the norm for decades, but the competition isn't doing this now and ONLY Sony is actively going out of it's way to block adapters) This is both a huge barrier for people with disabilities, as well as a huge financial barrier for normal folks being forced to buy multiple $70 controllers for local multiplayer.

Bare basic QOL features from PS4 still missing nearly two years after launch
Thanks, yeah that is all valid critique.
 

wvnative

Member
These 'controversies' are only a few guys in forums not representative of many millions of players that thesee games have.

It's still shitty of them regardless of the casuals who take it laying down. Respect the customer. Did you actually see the shit with GT7 at launch?

Uncharted The Nathan Drake Collection, Wipeout Omega Collection, God of War games, Gravity Rush Remastered, Ico, Tekken 2 and a ton of classics. Premium has a ton of great games, if you don't like them don't buy it.

And sure, with time they'll increase its catalog and emulators, we know they are working on it.
I was referring to the PS1, PS2, PSP selection/emulation. Too few games out of the gate. Emulation too poor. Remastered PS4 games are good for people who don't own them already. Sure they might be working on massively improving it, but the way it's started is not good, not expecting GOAT service out of the gate, but I expected a certain minimal threshold of quality, which I did not get.
Which are these missing "basic QOL features"?

Two right off the bat: For games that block recording in certain cutscenes, you get a pop up notifying you. This is distracting, sure not many games do this nowadays but it's irritating as hell when it happens. PS4 let you disable it. You can disable every other pop up type, but not this one.

PS5 carries the OS custom button remapping from PS4 which is cool, glad we launched with that. But on PS4 you could quick toggle it from the quick menu. PS5 has quick toggles for several accessibility features, but not this. You gotta dig into the submenus every time you want to toggle it on/off. Sure it's not the end of the world, but it's just like...why?
 

yurinka

Member
It's still shitty of them regardless of the casuals who take it laying down. Respect the customer. Did you actually see the shit with GT7 at launch?
I only saw a few too passionate fans overly dramatic whining because of a few minor things most players don't care about. The game was very successful in reviews and sales, and as any GaaS they'll fix or tweak whatever they consider, as they already did.

I was referring to the PS1, PS2, PSP selection/emulation. Too few games out of the gate. Emulation too poor. Remastered PS4 games are good for people who don't own them already. Sure they might be working on massively improving it, but the way it's started is not good, not expecting GOAT service out of the gate, but I expected a certain minimal threshold of quality, which I did not get.
Before Jim Ryan there was no PS1 and PSP emulation for PS4 and PS5. They implemented it and included it in the subscription too, trying to find them some purpose in business that justitfies and make worth to invest on improving the emulators, add more emulators and add more games. Which is what they are doing.

They started with 400 games -including a ton of great games-, on top of the over 300 games they have on Extra, plus their deal with Ubisoft. This is a ton of work and money testing everything and doing paperwork signing with the owners of all these games/IPs. It is a very good start, but obviously many things can be improved and they are working to improve them.

They said that plan to add NTSC option for most games (I assume the ones who weren't released in PAL only), we know they'll keep adding games every month and even if the emulation quality is more than fine (but can be improved and nicer extras can be added, the problem isn't emulation itself) we know that they were hiring to improve and make new emulators.

Two right off the bat: For games that block recording in certain cutscenes, you get a pop up notifying you. This is distracting, sure not many games do this nowadays but it's irritating as hell when it happens. PS4 let you disable it. You can disable every other pop up type, but not this one.

PS5 carries the OS custom button remapping from PS4 which is cool, glad we launched with that. But on PS4 you could quick toggle it from the quick menu. PS5 has quick toggles for several accessibility features, but not this. You gotta dig into the submenus every time you want to toggle it on/off. Sure it's not the end of the world, but it's just like...why?
The are super minor details that 99.999% of the poeple don't care about them. Don' deserve any drama. If they improve them, better. If not, as you say the world is not going to end.

They have been improving a lot of things, like adding VRR, 1440p or folders support plus making the new PS+ and related emulators plus chat stuff and other things.
 
When Sony has the Single Player IP’s alongside titans multiplayers IP’s

People will realize how great Jim Ryan was for diversifying PlayStations catalogue

Can’t just rely on god of war and Naughty Dog for the next decade

Yep. The number one criticism of sony the past 5 years was that they only make “one and done” games and that they are one trick ponies. If sony manage to make successful big multiplayer experiences they will have conquered both fronts.

And I honestly believe sony can make mid 80 to low 90 multiplayer games with the talent they currently have. When you get a Spider-Man 2 that is a large scale single player game and get a Factions 2 in the same year the vision will be realized. There are a lot of multiplayer games on the market but very few of them have the polish of a Sony 1st party game
 
Last edited:

Umbasaborne

Member
I miss this sony, when they werent trying so hard to copy nintendo, in terms of ignoring their fans and barely announcing anything anymore

 
Last edited:
He cared about consumers, to the point where even when Xbox was doing the paid online BS he stuck to his guns with the PS3.
What? It was free because it was limited and much worse, what was Sony going to charge for? did you forget how bad PSN originally was when it was first made to attempt unified online?

He was the first man to actually stand up to nintendo in the handheld market, with the PSP surpassing the DS in every way that isn't sales (
This applies to the Lynx as well.

Except sales, the PSP actually did pass the DS for a time in sales early on, in NA.

This is the only thing left I'll respond to because it is extremely poor logic.
Because you can't address my post pointing out your irrational claims and are skipping it.
 
BTW, on subject of Jim Ryan, i think people are forgetting how much damage Shu and co did before as well. They really did a number on Sony's trajectory.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
I am not sure what the point of comparing purely handheld consoles to traditional set-top boxes is.

Gameboy, GB Advance, Advance SP, 3DS, et al, all of their opening MSRP's were traditionally much lower than the "proper" (for lack of a better word) consoles of their time (usually less than half), and the software units were sold for less. This placed them into a unique section of the market, that in which the vast majority of households could afford one or two over their lifetimes. Obviously attractive to young parents who didn't earn much money but needed something to entertain their children with video game wise, and likewise for well-off people that viewed them as impulse buys.

It all feels like comparing a high-end gaming PC to a Nvidia Shield - they're simply made for entirely different sub-audiences with incomparable incomes and gaming demands.
 
Last edited:
I think Jim has done an ok job not brilliant. I think he should think more on studio purchases to be honest. The mount he purchased bungie for he could of easily purchased parent company zenimax. And with the insane deal of the studios that square sold off they could of a added them to there first party rooster. but as always Sony Jim Ryan doesn't think
 

PaintTinJr

Member
What did they do? I always seemed to enjoy their interviews during the PS4 generation.
Completely agree, and that's one of Jim's and Herman's biggest problems IMO, he's gagged developers like Cerny/ICE team and made the whole secrecy issue around PlayStation really annoying, like trying to enjoy and anticipate a great meal while wearing a nose clip - so you can't smell the food and sate your appetite.

We are in an era where console hardware is closest it has ever been to a regular PC and yet the level of NDAs around software development are worse than they have ever been on PlayStation, we'd all love to have very technical public discussion about the sauce in PS5 like the geometry engine, but here we are years on and nothing is in the public domain. Indies needing a formal agreement to get a loan of dev kits is a joke PS1, PS2 and PS3 all had much more accessible dev info to the hobbyist with hardware offerings and it made the wait between massive hit - truly - next-gen game releases much more interesting IMO. Series having a dev mode on the retail boxes is certainly much better than the way Jim has continued PlayStation 4's secrecy policy.
 
What did they do? I always seemed to enjoy their interviews during the PS4 generation.
Half the stuff people are blaming Jim Ryan for and worse, plus started the studio closures, made decisions that had PS hurling toward possibly dropping out, started the censorship (which I guess is mainly a weeb thing), charging for online, and several other things.

I personally didn't mind but many people didn't like them, but I guess Jim is the new scape goat so they get a break.
 
Wrong. I've been a Sony stan most of my life and I will likely not purchase a ps5.
I have a Series X and a Switch and am quite happy with both at this point. PS5 for me is like, maybe some day? But no plans this year or next, I don't need to play Forbidden West or God of War that badly.
 

The_Mike

Gold Member
I think Jim has done an ok job not brilliant. I think he should think more on studio purchases to be honest. The mount he purchased bungie for he could of easily purchased parent company zenimax. And with the insane deal of the studios that square sold off they could of a added them to there first party rooster. but as always Sony Jim Ryan doesn't think
You want Jimbo to buy the parent company of zenimax?

 

Begleiter

Neo Member
You don't get props for chasing trends, which is all he's done. Engagement with Sony platforms has gone down with only limp explanations for why. He's clearly stepped into the business while it was in a strong position and bungled it - that's what he'll be remembered for.
 

Karamina

Neo Member
Not just him, but the policies and general direction PlayStation has chosen to go in such as abandoning their Japanese traditional roots, traditional studios such as SCEJ, and more. Jim Ryan, in his actions, does not respect PlayStation's history so why should I? By proxy, Sony giving PlayStation to America has changed the focus of the platform from a delicate, unique balance of western and Japanese titles. It's why PlayStation has always been on top by virtue of the eclectic assortment of titles they provided. Both Parappa (Japanese) and Siphon Filter (western) were PlayStation titles. The diversity of their studio alignment alotted the PS brand to be as mainstream (Uncharted) or as experimental (Flower) as they wanted. This change in priorities to chase after western eyeballs in particular and American dollars specifically at the expense of PS' diverse portfolio goes against PS tradition. PlayStation always invested in properties that were experimental just as much as they invested in what could be popular. It's why they were always my favorite platform. Even their mainstream investments like Final Fantasy VII (original) were massive risks. A full fledged marketing campaign for a turn-based RPG in 1997? On consoles? Outside of Japan? Modern Sony, at Jim Ryan's charge, is only invested in creating Hollywood-esque romps at the expense of the PlayStation branded experimentalism which tied with their mainstream pursuits was their bread and butter. Sony published games like Rule of Rose, Journey, Flower, ICO, Demon's Souls, Tokyo Jungle, Gravity Rush as well as games like Uncharted, Killzone, Gran Turismo. Jim Ryan at his own admission has been a part of that shift given his remarks about Backwards Compatibility being useless and the mere notion that playing old games is pointless. A man like that leading the PS brand does a lot of damage undoing the values that PlayStation has had since its inception and deserves scorn and not a reward. I will not purchase a PS5 until they reverse course and respect their roots.

But sure, label me an Xbox fanboy. I'll play on Series X and Nintendo Switch instead. Fuck Jim Ryan.
100% agree, very well explained
 

yurinka

Member
About Sony performance and GaaS.

Gaming revenue:


Gaming revenue market share:


SIE revenue and profit:


F2P generates over 25% of PSN revenue and growing:


IDG gaming revenue projection (notice digital add-on comes mostly from GaaS games):


GaaS in PC:


Gaming revenue (notice most mobile revenue is from GaaS titles):
 
Last edited:
I agree with mostly everything else you said but i would change a couple things regarding this point. It’s not really just ‘PC Ports’ its multi-platform development in general. MLB going to multiple platforms, Bungie still being able to publish on multiple platforms, acquisition of Nixxes, new displays and pc hardware, pc firmware, cross-play, mobile games in development, VR, etc.

Sony isn’t simply porting games to PC they are establishing a wider perimeter of influence of their big IP. It’s not even just gaming but television, anime, movies…It’s a push to expand their reach beyond a limited console base. Thats what Jim Ryan meant when he said he wanted 100 million people playing sony games, they need to lower the barrier for entry in general, its the only way they are going to be able to shatter the glass ceiling surrounding console sales. You cannot tie all your revenue behind a 500 dollar paywall.

Also, the other part about remakes. While TLOU part 1 is getting a lot of attention, this initiative started with Shawn Layden years ago on the PS4. Medieval, Shadow of the Colossus, Ratchet & Clank, and then all the countless remasters on top of that.

Right, all good points you've brought up too. But in terms of the PC part, my idea is that there's maybe a bit too much crossover between that type of audience and the console audience. I think back to the overall lifetime sales for Xbox One X and PS4 Pro; part of the reason those systems existed was to curb drift of console gamers to PC. That right already tells me there's a bit more crossover between a PC and console gamer than, say, console to mobile gamer, or console gamer to an avid anime viewer.

Then also considering those Pro models didn't sell very much, especially in the case of One X, which by that point MS were already doing Day 1 on console and PC. You'd think if there wasn't as much crossover/cross-interference between console and PC, the One X would've seen more sales than it did.

This is implying that Sega was appealing to (then) hardcore gamers. They were appealing to Arcade and graphic aficionados. All the hard core complex guys were on computer or PS/Xbox.

This sounds like a contortion of what "hardcore" means. Hardcore isn't something mutually exclusive to just one demographic type. You can have hardcore & niche, hardcore & mainstream, hardcore games in specific mainstream genres, hardcore-centric genres, etc.

Visual novels, shmups, 3D fighters, etc. appealed to a segment of hardcore gamers at that time. Considering the majority of people who were into those games, usually tried mastering them which required a lot of time and effort to do. Games like VF3 were among the most technical fighters on the market when they released in 1996. No matter how to you try defining it, Sega was appealing to some slice of hardcore gamers.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
His PC adventures produced a laughable $80 million last year in a year when GOW and Days Gone were released on PC. $28 million and $22 million in revenues. Wow. What a massive achievement! In comparison, TLOU2 did $240 million in 3 days on PS4 alone.

porting games costs a tiny fraction of what it costs to build a game like like TLOU2 from the ground up. ROI is all that matters.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Completely agree, and that's one of Jim's and Herman's biggest problems IMO, he's gagged developers like Cerny/ICE team and made the whole secrecy issue around PlayStation really annoying, like trying to enjoy and anticipate a great meal while wearing a nose clip - so you can't smell the food and sate your appetite.

We are in an era where console hardware is closest it has ever been to a regular PC and yet the level of NDAs around software development are worse than they have ever been on PlayStation, we'd all love to have very technical public discussion about the sauce in PS5 like the geometry engine, but here we are years on and nothing is in the public domain. Indies needing a formal agreement to get a loan of dev kits is a joke PS1, PS2 and PS3 all had much more accessible dev info to the hobbyist with hardware offerings and it made the wait between massive hit - truly - next-gen game releases much more interesting IMO. Series having a dev mode on the retail boxes is certainly much better than the way Jim has continued PlayStation 4's secrecy policy.
Can you believe that we still dont know the system ram allocation for the PS5?

Surely thats the kind of spec that needs to be listed on the product spec list. We have seen what a low memory allocation can do to consoles before. PS3s split ram architecture was a disaster and Series S's 10 GB of RAM with just 7.5 GB of RAM has raised some red flags from some devs. If the PS5's OS is using a lot more than the 2.5 GB of VRAM the XSX and XSS use then surely their consumers need to know.

The whole Machine Learning, VRS and mesh shaders debacle couldve easily been cleared up by Cerny doing some press rounds. if they have the same functionality under a different name, tell us. If you dont support it, you dont support it. No need to hide it.
 
They are supply constraint,

Aren't Microsoft also supply-constrained with Series X?

their games can be played on PC,

Some of them, not all of them. And none of them Day 1. These are...kind of specific things that need to be understood.

3rd part games can be played on PC or XB,

For the ones available on both platforms. Quite a few still aren't.

sales of the sequels of their PS4 smash hits indicate that those games aren't as much of a system sellers,

I guess you missed that Miles Morales has done over 10 million with the lions share of those being on PS5? HFW and GT7 adding ~ 6.4 million in 1P software sales Q2 that's in addition to what they already brought in Q1?

their cross-play policy actually goes againt OP arguments,

Not really. They still allow cross-play, but since they aren't Microsoft and therefore are more dependent on their gaming revenue (somewhere between Microsoft and Nintendo, leaning a bit closer to Nintendo but not in that territory fully), they're going to leverage monetization policies where they can particularly for sales and revenue of games on other platforms that are probably mainly earning them due to crossplay enabled for PS platforms.

At least Sony actually allow crossplay; Nintendo's still shutting that out for games like Fortnite of all things.

their refund policy is just bad,

One of the few things you've mentioned that's agreeable. They do need to revamp this.

70$ price tag on everything,

How is this any worst than keeping your games priced near MSRP for several years like other publishers such as Nintendo? At least in the case of $70 games, if you don't want to pay that price you can wait until a price cut or a sale a few months later.

$70 games only hurts penny-pinching gamers who fear FOMO. As if those two things don't end up creating an oxymoron.

no regional pricing, the list goes on.

This could be something else they look into addressing, but come countries would be more negatively affected than you think. For example, the yen is weaker than the dollar at present. To generate the same amount of revenue on a sold game copy in Japan as in America, Sony would have to raise the Japanese MSRP price of said game.

There are other countries where their currencies are just completely screwed up, where prices could theoretically be raised to ridiculous levels pursuing a true regional pricing strategy.

I'm personally really interested to see how much the players' good will and brand royalty will carry the PS5, because from my perspective Ryan is turning PS5 into an arrogant, hermetic environment a'la Apple while everyone else wants to open up as much as possible, be available on every platform, and allow all those players to play together, this is what F2P/GAAS model is mostly all about, the community, and again, Sony seems to not to understand that, they'll most likely make 70$ MP-only PS5-exclusive games with seasons, MTX, all the ordinary stuff, and wonder why a couple of months later there's no community and the money doesn't flow from thise games... One thong is sure - Bungie will have a ton of work to do to teach Sony and all its 1P studios what it's all about, and persuade Ryan that it's really is about long term strategy rather than the next fiscal quarter.

"Everyone else", so remind how is Nintendo opening up as much as possible? I don't see them bringing their 1P games to PC, I don't see them enabling cross-play on what one'd assume are obvious picks, I don't see them offering actual sales or pricing discounts for most of their 1P software, etc.

And guess what? That's perfectly fine for them to do. It's their business model and it's what works. But please don't say "everyone else" is doing something when very easily I can pull up massive companies that aren't. If you want to continue that line of thought, Rockstar/Take Two could be another such major exception. Or with Microsoft, if the real goal is "open up as much as possible", why are they locking FH5 Hot Wheels DLC behind a paywall? If you buy the DLC but don't have the base game, don't you need to either buy the game or buy a GamePass subscription? What if there are gamers who can't afford that?

This whole concept of "liberating content", opening things up to "everyone", is just corporate BS. It's a marketing angle, because at the end of the day these companies all still want one thing: your money. And they still want you in their ecosystem over anyone else's. Just because that ecosystem becomes less defined through hardware over time, doesn't mean it loses any of the power it may've had before. Not when digital collections, social networks, currencies etc. are tied to these more hardware-agnostic ecosystems. You're also conveniently ignoring some of the shortcomings of the things you big up, like cross-play (some games have actually died in terms of MP due to inability to filter out console and PC players), or somehow thinking this idea of bringing players together is what F2P/GaaS is mostly about (if anything, it is the most egregious model for monetization practices, the one thing all of these companies want because it means more $$$), etc.

It's almost comical you think the company that's managed to have the largest marketshare in the industry for almost every generation so far, has helped push along industry-defining or industry-leading games practically every generation more than any other platform holder aside maybe Nintendo (which at the very least would tie them with Sega, if not put them a bit ahead especially depending on what specific metrics you're looking at), and managed to salvage their brand during its weakest period in a way no other platform holder has shown...is suddenly "short-sighted" or needs to be taught how to think about the long-term.

Buddy, your post is Grade-A delusion.
 
But in terms of the PC part, my idea is that there's maybe a bit too much crossover between that type of audience and the console audience. I think back to the overall lifetime sales for Xbox One X and PS4 Pro; part of the reason those systems existed was to curb drift of console gamers to PC. That right already tells me there's a bit more crossover between a PC and console gamer than, say, console to mobile gamer, or console gamer to an avid anime viewer.

Then also considering those Pro models didn't sell very much, especially in the case of One X, which by that point MS were already doing Day 1 on console and PC. You'd think if there wasn't as much crossover/cross-interference between console and PC, the One X would've seen more sales than it did.

Thats why to me doing pc day 1 doesn’t make a lot of sense. They will inevitably get those pc players that own ps5’s buying their copies on ps5 and then double dipping later on pc. They will always get two sales instead of one.

Its not like pc players have any other option other than waiting for it to come to pc if they dont want to play it on consoles. They aren’t losing sales by staggering the releases
 
This sounds like a contortion of what "hardcore" means. Hardcore isn't something mutually exclusive to just one demographic type. You can have hardcore & niche, hardcore & mainstream, hardcore games in specific mainstream genres, hardcore-centric genres, etc.

Visual novels, shmups, 3D fighters, etc. appealed to a segment of hardcore gamers at that time. Considering the majority of people who were into those games.

To be fair I was using the then common association with the term in society and the industry back then , not a general definition for it. Yeah a casual games player wasn't going to buy a space shooter but those were generally not put under the "hard core" umbrella when the term was used then. That would usually be reserved for games like Shenmue or the like. Looking back a game like VF3 is considered hardcore, but back then it was another 3D fighting game (the Dreamcast release not the 1996 arcade version) just like Tekken Tag on the PS2, those weren't the hardcore games of the time though those were in a saturated genre from brands people knew. Armored Core 2, MDK, Time Splitters were the hardcore games then, Hardcore was about what the gamer gamers were playing, not so much effort back then.

it's hilarious in hindsight when you look at all those games dismissed by the industry and the media back then. Average Joe wasn't playing SFEX3, or many of the Dreamcast games in its first two years.

Then also considering those Pro models didn't sell very much, especially in the case of One X, which by that point MS were already doing Day 1 on console and PC. You'd think if there wasn't as much crossover/cross-interference between console and PC, the One X would've seen more sales than it did.

Actually the Xbox One X outsold the PS4 Pro in the US https://wccftech.com/analyst-xbox-one-sales-35-million/ and I think UK too originally, though we never got much int he way of sales updates for ether consoles later on. UK https://www.destructoid.com/xbox-on...n-the-uk-top-ps4-pros-50000-first-week-total/

You are right that the Pro models for both XBO and PS4 were done to get closer to PC graphics and stop drift. With the PS5 PC ports, imo they won't be doing much to Sonys consoles sales if 3 gens of Xbox is anything to go by.
 
Top Bottom