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Judas, the new game from Ken Levine

I thought the next Bioshock game was taking place in Antarctica, with water themes? Am I thinking of something else, Or was that just rumors.. Anyway Bioshock was pretty cool at first but once you realize Levine has quite dubious identity clashes underlying the games, it becomes disappointing. Infinite was essentially a guilt trip.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
I'd love to play a Bioshock successor from the mind of the original creator, but I wonder about the scale of this game. I hope it won't be too small because of heavy budget limitations. Making immersive sims is never cheap. I've experienced that this year playing Weird West - I love many things in the game, but the budget cuts are in your face (ugly graphics, no voiceovers, copy-pasted locations etc.).
 
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I screamed two times during the showing of Levine's game: first when I saw the Ghost Story Games logo and I couldn't believe he was finally unveiling the narrative legos project, and second the moment I saw that fucking title:

To everyone who's sceptic about Judas, do yourselves a favor and watch the man himself talk at GDC 2014 about the groundbreaking narrative concept that lives at the heart of the world he introduced us to last night:

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. He talked a talk but this game looks like a bioshock sequel. Nothing to be excited for around "groundbreaking narrative concepts" quite yet.
 

Perrott

Gold Member
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. He talked a talk but this game looks like a bioshock sequel. Nothing to be excited for around "groundbreaking narrative concepts" quite yet.
Judas official description from Ghost Story's website:
A disintegrating starship. A desperate escape plan. You are the mysterious and troubled Judas. Your only hope for survival is to make or break alliances with your worst enemies. Will you work together to fix what you broke – or will you leave it to burn?
This is literally the narrative legos game discussed in the talk, but of course you haven't seen all those intricate narrative systems in action. After all, what was shown at TGA was just a 60 seconds teaser trailer.

What I meant to say with my comment is that in the GDC talk he kinda explains a lot of what he isn't explaining now about Judas, especially what makes it stand out from his previous work on BioShock.
 
I thought the next Bioshock game was taking place in Antarctica, with water themes? Am I thinking of something else, Or was that just rumors.. Anyway Bioshock was pretty cool at first but once you realize Levine has quite dubious identity clashes underlying the games, it becomes disappointing. Infinite was essentially a guilt trip.

Ken Levine left the Bioshock studio, there is a Bioshock game announced but it's not from him, this is the game he's been working on
 

Bragr

Banned
Judas official description from Ghost Story's website:

This is literally the narrative legos game discussed in the talk, but of course you haven't seen all those intricate narrative systems in action. After all, what was shown at TGA was just a 60 seconds teaser trailer.

What I meant to say with my comment is that in the GDC talk he kinda explains a lot of what he isn't explaining now about Judas, especially what makes it stand out from his previous work on BioShock.
From watching the lego narrative talk, and watching this trailer, I take it as an iteration of the "would you kindly" moment. That this time, there will be several moments like that, which all gives you choices on who to betray and who to work with, which will all sprawl in different directions and affect each other in several ways.

But, there was no release window, and knowing the issues with Bioshock Infinite, I am scared this is gonna be a game that will be released far into 2024 or something.
 
Judas official description from Ghost Story's website:

This is literally the narrative legos game discussed in the talk, but of course you haven't seen all those intricate narrative systems in action. After all, what was shown at TGA was just a 60 seconds teaser trailer.

What I meant to say with my comment is that in the GDC talk he kinda explains a lot of what he isn't explaining now about Judas, especially what makes it stand out from his previous work on BioShock.

I will believe it when I see it. I suspect it will be a basic decision tree/pick your faction type game just as we have all seen before.
 

Cryio

Member
We need more Bioshock 1/2 levels of immersive sim and world building and less the liniar design, inconsistent weapon progression, mess of an upgrade system, poorly thought out powers Infinite has. Also the railway system was pointless for gameplay, but great for story and set pieces.

Also, as great as the Burial at Sea DLCs are, extra story content is meant to expand lore, not to fill in holes in world building in the base game. Such as explaining how Vigors existed in Columbia in the first place.
 
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As much as I enjoy Levine’s output, I’m weirdly surprised it’s another Bioshock type.

I thought big brain narrative man would lead us down a different avenue or type of storytelling/gameplay/anything but I guess there’s always another lighthouse if the checks cash.

Cocksucker.

I’ll buy it, play it and hopefully, not forget it like Infinite.

Cheers to you, you weird Charlie Day trisomy looking motherfuck, ‘cause I’m buying it day one, bitch.
 

Beer Baelly

Al Pachinko, Konami President
Almost makes me wanna play the Bio collection...

fuck-that-steve-buscemi.gif
 

hyperbertha

Member
One person's tasteful art direction is another person's generic. One person's tired rehash of 70s "Alien/Star Wars" science fiction aesthetic is another person's bold new creative vision which brings dreams to life from the unknowable depths of their psyche.
I disagree. Most people can see good art direction. Never seen anyone call From software's games as generic artwise. Meanwhile plenty of people called out Starfield for genericness.
 

The Skull

Member
Looking good, although I'm still a bit cautious after the bait and switch that was infinites original showing vs what we got. Don't fuck it up Levine!
 

Wildebeest

Member
I disagree. Most people can see good art direction. Never seen anyone call From software's games as generic artwise. Meanwhile plenty of people called out Starfield for genericness.
A lot of people have called out From for being derivative of various artists, but they dress it up as praise instead of calling it "generic". A better example is Blizzard. Blizzard never knowing create anything which isn't super derivative and generic, but people have praised them to high heavens for it. They love how Blizzard never willingly does anything even slightly risky, weird or alien with their creative choices.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Anyone else find it pretty weird that he pretty much shuttered his old studio, leaving the bio shock franchise to languish for years, so he could start a fresh and make something different….then proceeds to spend the next 5 years seemingly making what for all intense and purposes just looks like bioshock 4…
It's not that weird. I think if he stayed there would have been a lot of pressure to move into something quickly, since an entire staff would be waiting on it to go into full production. He wanted a longer period of pre-development to experiment, and that seems to be the main thing he was chasing.

Ken has often faced criticism over the pace at which he delivers final story, and the amount of changes he makes until late into production. He's always been called hard to work with for that reason, despite the fact that no one denies the quality of his work. So saying to his bosses, "Look, just give me and a skeleton crew a few years to fuck around and figure this out," isn't crazy. It's not even that crazy if all he wanted to do was another Bioshock, but if you listen to his interviews it sounds like the systemic narrative aspects of the game are a lot more ambitious than the combat mechanics might have you think.

Now whether or not those experiments paid off or how unique the work he was doing are questions that still have to be answéred but I can understand the thought process.
 
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hyperbertha

Member
A lot of people have called out From for being derivative of various artists, but they dress it up as praise instead of calling it "generic". A better example is Blizzard. Blizzard never knowing create anything which isn't super derivative and generic, but people have praised them to high heavens for it. They love how Blizzard never willingly does anything even slightly risky, weird or alien with their creative choices.
Just because its not risky doesn't mean its generic. Blizzard's art direction is pretty spot on most of the time. Or atleast it used to be.
 

Wildebeest

Member
Just because its not risky doesn't mean its generic. Blizzard's art direction is pretty spot on most of the time. Or atleast it used to be.
A lot of Blizzards work has to be called generic because if it wasn't, they would be successfully sued for plagiarism by all sorts. If you say, this plagiarism is so flavourful that it is even better than the real thing, it is even less defensible.
 

daffyduck

Member
Judas official description from Ghost Story's website:
A disintegrating starship. A desperate escape plan. You are the mysterious and troubled Judas. Your only hope for survival is to make or break alliances with your worst enemies. Will you work together to fix what you broke – or will you leave it to burn?

I was wondering why they called it "Judas".
 

Fools idol

Banned
I was wondering why they called it "Judas".
His name is often used synonymously with betrayal or treason... he revealed Jesus to the feds in the fairytale book and all that.

anyway, I assume the name of the game here is you have to make a lot of moral choices that alter the story in more significant ways than we have seen in past games.
 

kuncol02

Banned
A lot of people have called out From for being derivative of various artists, but they dress it up as praise instead of calling it "generic". A better example is Blizzard. Blizzard never knowing create anything which isn't super derivative and generic, but people have praised them to high heavens for it. They love how Blizzard never willingly does anything even slightly risky, weird or alien with their creative choices.
Blizzard is actually opposite. It's style was copied by so many other teams that it become generic. They are John Carter of art styles.

We need more Bioshock 1/2 levels of immersive sim and world building and less the liniar design.
When you played Bioshock last time? That's almost as linear as game possibly can. I wouldn't even call it immersive sim.

Ken Levine left the Bioshock studio, there is a Bioshock game announced but it's not from him, this is the game he's been working on
"Left"
About Infinite development:
"The game was still undergoing a troubled development. While the big picture elements of the story were now locked, Levine continued to make changes to large parts of the game at a whim."
"Within Irrational, there was concern that the game would never be finished. The game's ship date repeatedly slipped and staff left the company. Jordan Thomas, a former BioShock level designer who had been creative director for BioShock 2, was hired in January 2012 to get the project back on track. Levine and Thomas created a roadmap for the game, deciding on cuts to reduce the scope of remaining work;""
"Thomas was followed in March 2012 by game producer Don Roy. Experienced with closing out games at publishers like Sony and Microsoft, Roy said that there was no playable game available for him to try when he asked. Roy created a new workflow to bring order to Infinite's disorganized and inefficient project management. Irrational hired Rod Fergusson as vice president of development in August 2012. Fergusson had a reputation as someone who made tough decisions to ship difficult games, and reined in Levine's worst tendencies; Irrational staff recalled Levine worked best when under constraints, and that without Fergusson the game might not have shipped."

And now about Judas:
"On February 23, 2017, Irrational Games was rebranded as Ghost Story Games, founded by 12 of the former Irrational members with Levine remaining as president and creative director.[22] In January 2022, the outlet's next game was reported to be in development hell, with employees blaming Levine for a lack of leadership in producing a vaguely pitched game that Levine described as a "narrative LEGO" in which every player would have a unique experience."
 
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Wildebeest

Member
Blizzard is actually opposite. It's style was copied by so many other teams that it become generic. They are John Carter of art styles.
Dude, even the producers of Warcraft say that Warhammer was a huge influence on them, and they basically only wanted to make Warhammer games.
 

kuncol02

Banned
Dude, even the producers of Warcraft say that Warhammer was a huge influence on them, and they basically only wanted to make Warhammer games.
Warhammer universe was huge inspiration but Blizzard art style is created by them and tons of other games including even Warhammer mmo copied it later.
 

Wildebeest

Member
Warhammer universe was huge inspiration but Blizzard art style is created by them and tons of other games including even Warhammer mmo copied it later.
So if someone can draw Mickey Mouse with a better art style that Walt Disney, then they win the right to be called the biggest inspiration on Mickey Mouse and the rightful IP owners of the least generic version of Mickey Mouse?
 

Corndog

Banned
His name is often used synonymously with betrayal or treason... he revealed Jesus to the feds in the fairytale book and all that.

anyway, I assume the name of the game here is you have to make a lot of moral choices that alter the story in more significant ways than we have seen in past games.
Do you really need to be demeaning to religious people? You certainly don’t have to believe but don’t ridicule others.
 

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman

According to the report, when asked if Judas would be apart of the 87 games being released by March of 2025, Zelnick kept it short and sweet saying, "yes." The CEO did also discuss possible delays to some of the 87 games aiming to be released by the end of March 2025, saying that "there's always the possibility of some slippage but the teams seem to be functioning really well and I'm optimistic about delivering great titles to the marketplace on an ongoing basis."
 
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