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Kotaku claims Gamepass “burnout”, Xbox responds, gets ratio’ed
Hestar69
Member
Yes...Getting life is strange,guardians,Trek to yomi (day 1) danganronpa 1/2,,ai somnium files these last 2 months have been "poor" Also sniper elite 5 day 1 in 2 days...
Yeah such a "poor" service..get real.
kingfey
Banned
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
I think he meant the Genesis/MegaDrive era. Tons of attack ads from Sega of America against Nintendo then. TBF it was peak era for that stuff; even Nintendo got into some digs near the end. NEC and especially SNK, too.
Funny thing is it was almost exclusively the Western branches doing it. The Japanese side had too much class for mudslinging tactics.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Kotaku is a lousy, awful site but the phenomenon they are highlighting is quite possibly real.
You can't expect continuous explosive growth from Gamepass, especially at a time when hardware supply is constrained. And of course delaying Starfield and Redfall is going to cost them a few subs at least temporarily.
That said, its most likely nothing significant. And being a service, when conditions improve no doubt its profitability and popularity will get an uplift.
Its a nothingburger. Getting angry either way just means you're clearly over-invested in making a point.
You can't expect continuous explosive growth from Gamepass, especially at a time when hardware supply is constrained. And of course delaying Starfield and Redfall is going to cost them a few subs at least temporarily.
That said, its most likely nothing significant. And being a service, when conditions improve no doubt its profitability and popularity will get an uplift.
Its a nothingburger. Getting angry either way just means you're clearly over-invested in making a point.
octiny
Banned
So when you say "people" what you really mean is the minority, correct? Hence why Kotaku got ratio'ed.
Kotaku got ratio'ed, also known as...
Jaybe
Member
Truth is, we all lost. Kotaku revealed their sources for hard hitting journalism to be random twitter accounts, MS taking the bait defending their AA game service, and us for all googling “ratio’ed”.
Javthusiast
Banned
ManaByte
Gold Member
Whoever's running the inXile social media channels needs a raise, guys a legend
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I remember Sony shoving No mans sky shoving down my throat in every fucking conference and trying to pass it off as AAA. I laughed my ass off when they had to offer refunds for every copy. I knew it was fucking indie trash from day one.
P.S Transistor sucked too. I dont care how well it reviewed. I was like i didnt pay $400 for this shit. you dont need 8GB GDDR5 to run an isometric game.
P.P.S MS need to cough up the dollars and buy every single AAA game for the rest of the year for a day one release. MLB the show and Guardians isnt good enough. Get Saints Row, Plague's Tale 2, CoD Modern Warfare, Avatar if it makes this year, Gotham Knights, and Hogwarts Legacy as day one releases. They have 25 million monthly subs feeding them $250 million a month which means $3 billion a year. if they cant fund those games with $3 billlion then they need to shut up shop and walk away.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
The more I think about it, the more I think this response was pretty tone deaf and somewhat insensitive to certain ongoing criticisms of MS's AAA output, especially in light of the RedFall & Starfield delays.
Essentially responding that people who were looking forward to your two biggest AAA games of the year, force themselves to play indies to somehow "make up" for them, when even AAA/AA exclusives like STALKER 2 have been delayed (albeit in their case, due to a war crisis), is pretty bad and I'm getting some Saturn-era Sega vibes in terms of how this might be potentially disrespectful to a portion of legitimately frustrated fans.
Essentially responding that people who were looking forward to your two biggest AAA games of the year, force themselves to play indies to somehow "make up" for them, when even AAA/AA exclusives like STALKER 2 have been delayed (albeit in their case, due to a war crisis), is pretty bad and I'm getting some Saturn-era Sega vibes in terms of how this might be potentially disrespectful to a portion of legitimately frustrated fans.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Zeroing
Banned
It is time people stop with the twitter campaign to smear Gamepass image, Gamepass after Aquaman 1 movie was set to a meteor rise in Hollywood....
Now being seriously, some people are so used to Xbox being the American media darling. The amount of attention and lack of criticism is huge when compared to Sony and Nintendo.
Asobo did Flight Sim so they could possibly get Plague Tale 2 day 1 on gamepass, but honestly if MS are buying anyone in the future they should acquire them first. I agree they need to start getting higher profile things on gamepass day 1 until their first party stuff starts showing up, They got Sniper Elite 5 so maybe that's an indication they see the problem. Have to see what they show at their showcase or whatever it's called these days to see if they got the memo.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Jerm411
Member
…
Zeroing
Banned
Objection: hearsay.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Objection: calls for speculation, compound, out of scope.
Zeroing
Banned
Shmunter
Member
If sub services like gamepass eventually hit a sub cap, increasing content becomes unsustainable, meaning many studios are left out in the cold. Conversely, if gamepass has eroded purchase habits, studios not on gamepass cannot get the sales they require.
Applies to Sony following in these footsteps. There will be little options remaining, industry death spiral.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
My new fav gif.
I knew immediately it was about this case hahahha.
Zeroing
Banned
It's tragic, amazing and funny. Best show on tv right now.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
I don't know if a "death spiral" will happen per se, but I do think there's a cap to total subs for these services. Right now for Netflix and even Disney+ we're seeing the cap around 120 - 220 million. IF they're lucky, maybe 300 million but that is a reach in of itself.
Gaming services patterned after them like GamePass, I'm thinking their maximum cap is, at best, half of that, 60 - 110 million at most. Which is about in line with actual console sales in a given generation for the Big 3. Which might mean the market for subscription services in terms of subscriber numbers, may not be any bigger than the market for console buyers, and in fact might be lower than that due to habits of skipping around services from month to month (if that's the way a person is using them).
Theoretically a subscriber base of 60 million would bring in more revenue over a generation than 60 million people purchasing a console, but in practice I think the overall revenue and profit figures would be more similar than dissimilar between the two approaches. The only potential other big area the sub model could save in are production & shipping/distribution costs; since there's no physical model to sell you don't have to spend on producing them. So in relation to revenue off of manufacturing consoles (even later into a gen when those costs are generally cheaper), a sub service should give notably more revenue and higher profit margins than those off of console hardware production & sales alone.
But then there's the issue that, if subscription services become the only model going forward, if the market cap for subs to a service isn't any larger than that for a physical console's install base (per sub service), how do you get near the revenue off 1P & 3P software sales & DLC/MTX even with the unrealistic scenario of meeting theoretical subscription service performance, where every person is paying in full every month the whole year for it? Off a 110 million sub-count service, you get $13.2 billion/year as the peak theoretical, but we have proof where in the traditional console market space, a console with 110 million units can generate over an extra $10 billion/year on top of that $13.2 billion/year relying less on subscription services and more on direct sales of 1P/3P content and DLC/MTX.
And let's also be aware of the fact that, in a scenario where Netflix-style gaming subscription services are the main market, sales of games will crater even if that's an option (which we're assuming here would most likely not be the case), similar to how the market for Blu-Ray and DVD purchases have shrunk considerably in the streaming era (only the small minority of hardcore film buffs & collectors still do Blu-Ray/DVD as their main way of watching movies).
In any case it's going to be very interesting to see what happens with this aspect of the market over the next 2-3 years. I think by then we'll know for a fact what the actual potential of a games subscription service model will be. Whether it's profitable enough and large enough to support Day 1 AAA games as a whole and replace the traditional model, or if it's better served as a convenient means of providing an archived backlog of older content.
Belthazar
Member
God, them engaging in petty fights with randoms on the studio's official account is so damn unprofessional. It looks silly.
This whole thing is just a mess, insane that it's being encouraged by Microsoft PR... I guess the crowd that cheers on those types of shenanigan's are who they're trying to attract nowadays.
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Chukhopops
Member
InXile is a perfect example of how a studio can transform itself with GP. They went from low-budget, somewhat janky great games to proper AA, high quality great games in the span of one episode.
I hope they don’t fall in the AAA trap and keep pushing games like Wasteland 3.
kiphalfton
Member
Fredrik
Member
”All right, time for some reductive math! Let’s say that you’ve signed up for the Xbox Game Pass Ultimate tier, which costs $15 a month and includes standard access to the game library plus a number of other perks. Let’s also assume any big-budget games, exclusive or not, that hit the service cost an industry-standard $60. By that math, you’d need to play two full-price games via Game Pass every four months to justify the cost.” /Kotaku
I’ve been paying $5/month for Ultimate since the start and will keep doing that at least until 2024. Same thing with the new PS+.
But fair enough, at full price I would probably hesitate right now. MS needs to deliver something big at their June event.
I’ve been paying $5/month for Ultimate since the start and will keep doing that at least until 2024. Same thing with the new PS+.
But fair enough, at full price I would probably hesitate right now. MS needs to deliver something big at their June event.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You know the funny thing is the author flunked the maths in that line. He says 2 full price games every 4 months, i-e 6 games every year.
Even at full price, game pass ultimate is $180 per year. That's 3 games, not 6.
Not even counting the most prominent ways you can save money via the Gold to GPU conversion, where it becomes one or even less full priced game per year.
LeftThumbstick
Member
You can say the same about the other side.
“Services like Gamepass are bad for gaming!!!”
Sony revamps PS plus with a GP style offering: “Oh, we like this now!”
ParaSeoul
Member
Only issue is subs are not the main focus of Playstation.
LeftThumbstick
Member
So PlayStation are doing it just for fun and not on the expectation that it will bring more subs to PS Plus?
That’s not my point though, it’s about the blatant flip flopping of attitudes towards these services. GP is just like PS Plus, it’s not a requirement but an additional add-on.
Kenpachii
Member
My new fav gif.
Dlacy13g
Member
Their response is targeted squarely at Kotaku and calling out a gaming site for their lack of vision to look beyond AAA games as the only thing Gamepass can/should offer. Gamepass as a whole offers day 1 games that includes indies and AAA. They also promise their 1st party day 1...and they also promise games that have already been released AAA and/or Indie. They have and continue to deliver on that promise. Games may not always be AAA or exclusive to GP... but the has been a constant influx of games.
Mind you, that's my opinion... everyone is entitled to their own. That said, a site like Kotaku you would think would understand the value of indie games more.
ParaSeoul
Member
Main focus is their games which will release as they've always done not day 1 on the sub. Game Pass is basically a requirement if you want the most out of your Xbox though. Its a big reason the Series S is selling the way it is. Playstation is selling out because of its exclusives. Xbox focuses on the subscriptions. Its two different strategies.So PlayStation are doing it just for fun and not on the expectation that it will bring more subs to PS Plus?
That’s not my point though, it’s about the blatant flip flopping of attitudes towards these services. GP is just like PS Plus, it’s not a requirement but an additional add-on.
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Shmunter
Member
Kotaku is reflecting trending social media. Just like with their woke BS.
Suffice it to say, even people here are expressing they have no desire to pay gamepass sub $ for indies, they want the AAA. The rest is shelf fillers and a bonus.
Investor9872
Member
I still don't know that that means!
Shmunter
Member
If there are more people discussing the topic then showing support for it, then the balance is tilted towards discontent - that’s obvious I imagine?
However in this case, that ratioing is no longer applicable. It must’ve been the case early on, but now there are more ‘likes’ than comments meaning it is no longer ratioed.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
This makes no sense.
PS Now has been around before Game Pass and they only added new features when they combined it with PS+.
You're talking about fanboys vs an official XB GP twitter account.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Since PS Now was first where were the Sony fans proclamations that PS Now would ruin gaming? Where were the Xbox fans complaints about PS Now since both sides do it? Why was it only when MS 'copied' Sony did it become a problem? And people claim there is no 'concern trolling' over Game pass.
Dlacy13g
Member
But we are getting AAA games... even some day1 into the service this year unless its a "thats not for me minds?. I guess that is where I fail to understand the complaint.
octiny
Banned
This is the correct answer.
"a reply to a tweet gets more likes than the tweet it was replying to usually indicating the unpopularity or stupidity of the original tweet."
Although the meaning can be slightly altered depending on the situation. The origin of it would usually mean a reply garnered more likes, retweets etc than the original tweet it was replying to. Thus you've been ratio'ed.
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