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Kotaku: Steam Is Banning Sex Games With Young-Looking Characters

CatCouch

Member
I'm assuming you guys aren't familiar, or not entirely familiar, with Shadbase's artwork. I'm specifically referring the the fact that he's drawn pornographic cartoon depictions of real under-aged girls. Notably a popular middle-school aged YouTuber who's name I won't mention so as to not give the situation more attention. In my opinion that crosses the line and there should be legal repercussions.
I'm aware of Shad's art, I am an erotic artist. Twitter has sided with him on art that's been reported, so there is that. You're free to think whatever you want of the art, I personally don't like quite a bit of it, but wanting him in jail was a big turn considering the rest of your post.
 
That's fair, I was being speaking pretty flippantly at the end of that post. I'm not committed to any severity of punishment but I am comfortable with there being legal repercussions for pornographic depictions of real under-aged people. I do have a bias in this but I think that's a reasonable minimum standard and one that could be applied consistently. In my view ,because of the targeted nature, there is a victim of those images and that makes the difference.
 

Thurible

Member
I'm assuming you guys aren't familiar, or not entirely familiar, with Shadbase's artwork. I'm specifically referring the the fact that he's drawn pornographic cartoon depictions of real under-aged girls. Notably a popular middle-school aged YouTuber who's name I won't mention so as to not give the situation more attention. In my opinion that crosses the line and there should be legal repercussions.

Oh, I'm aware of Shad. Used to listen to a podcast he was part of. Him drawing that Youtuber and Keemstar's daughter was fucked up and I'll admit I'm conflicted on what that should entail as far as repercussions go. They are still just drawings, but they definitely go beyond what is acceptable, even if I'm not sure that should entail what is legally acceptable.

They are just drawings. Gross as they may be (which is what Shad does best at: gross ass porn), there is no reason for him to be placed in Jail over it.

What kind of actual fucking monster does something like this. This is disgusting, abhorrent, and should be illegal. So this man makes pornographic cartoons of real underage children and not only creates them but presumably distributes them? That is literal evil. Ever hear of the saying "what goes on the internet, stays on the internet forever"? They may be "just drawings" be he is still pedaling a form of child pornography, just turning the "model" into a cartoon presumably to get a fix for pedophilic perverts. Not only that, but as I said this thing will forever be on the internet and there is no way scrub it off 100%. Imagine a little kid hearing from their parents, authority figures, fellow school kids, friends, etc that there is a dirty drawing of them online. Can you imagine how that would affect the child socially and psychologically?

What if the shoe was on the other foot? Can you imagine if someone got a naked or suggestive image of you but "cartoonized" it and then just said "hey, its just a drawing"? At the very least I would consider this some kind of harrassment, invasion of privacy, psychological abuse, and maybe even defamation. This doesn't sound like an issue of free speech.
 
What kind of actual fucking monster does something like this. This is disgusting, abhorrent, and should be illegal.
It is disgusting, it is abhorrent, but it shouldn't be illegal.

So this man makes pornographic cartoons of real underage children and not only creates them but presumably distributes them? That is literal evil. Ever hear of the saying "what goes on the internet, stays on the internet forever"? They may be "just drawings" be he is still pedaling a form of child pornography, just turning the "model" into a cartoon presumably to get a fix for pedophilic perverts. Not only that, but as I said this thing will forever be on the internet and there is no way scrub it off 100%. Imagine a little kid hearing from their parents, authority figures, fellow school kids, friends, etc that there is a dirty drawing of them online. Can you imagine how that would affect the child socially and psychologically?
As someone who spent some time being internet famous, briefly, I can assure you, there's worse stuff out there. The difference here is the relative fame of the person making it, causing the distribution to be wider.

As a father, I would NEVER let any middle school-aged child have a YouTube channel or to produce content with their image or real name available. You can post content under your real name when I feel like you can gracefully handle a dick pic or goatse. In the absolute worst case, if I couldn't stop them, I'd tell them to use a "public persona" email which I would personally manage - and then I'd just delete everything sent to them.

Can you imagine if someone got a naked or suggestive image of you but "cartoonized" it and then just said "hey, its just a drawing"?
I don't have to imagine. I've had exactly that happen. This is what being a public figure on the internet is.

At the very least I would consider this some kind of harrassment, invasion of privacy, psychological abuse, and maybe even defamation. This doesn't sound like an issue of free speech.
I would consider it harassment, absolutely, if that picture was sent to her directly. If it was posted somewhere else and she found it, or if her friends pointed it out to her, I don't think it was harassment. I think it is absolutely immoral, but I don't think morality should be regulated by the government. But there should be some recourse to people who have disgusting or threatening things sent to them - and there is. But if it wasn't meant for you to see in the first place, I'm not sure that you should have authoritarian domination over the entire internet.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
What kind of actual fucking monster does something like this. This is disgusting, abhorrent, and should be illegal. So this man makes pornographic cartoons of real underage children and not only creates them but presumably distributes them? That is literal evil. Ever hear of the saying "what goes on the internet, stays on the internet forever"? They may be "just drawings" be he is still pedaling a form of child pornography, just turning the "model" into a cartoon presumably to get a fix for pedophilic perverts. Not only that, but as I said this thing will forever be on the internet and there is no way scrub it off 100%. Imagine a little kid hearing from their parents, authority figures, fellow school kids, friends, etc that there is a dirty drawing of them online. Can you imagine how that would affect the child socially and psychologically?

What if the shoe was on the other foot? Can you imagine if someone got a naked or suggestive image of you but "cartoonized" it and then just said "hey, its just a drawing"? At the very least I would consider this some kind of harrassment, invasion of privacy, psychological abuse, and maybe even defamation. This doesn't sound like an issue of free speech.

If someone would want a picture of my fat ass and went to the effort of drawing an erotic version, do you know what I would do? Fuck it, let them. My skin is not thin enough to where that would cause a major issue because I am a grown ass adult who can move on from silly shit like that. I would say the same thing if I was still a teenager. Anyone can take a picture of your face and draw it on a naked body. The "invasion of privacy" and "psychological abuse"? The shit are you on, mate?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
If someone would want a picture of my fat ass and went to the effort of drawing an erotic version, do you know what I would do? Fuck it, let them. My skin is not thin enough to where that would cause a major issue because I am a grown ass adult who can move on from silly shit like that. I would say the same thing if I was still a teenager. Anyone can take a picture of your face and draw it on a naked body. The "invasion of privacy" and "psychological abuse"? The shit are you on, mate?
The difference is you're an adult and doesn't care. As per every country in the world, anyone who is classified as an adult has more freedoms to what they want, how they want it.

A weird guy making kiddie porno material from real life people (I find it hard to believe someone out there does this, but it seems so) is a big no-no.

Aside from some messed up countries with archaic tribal laws, just about every society has protections for underage people and material even if it's fiction. Trying to take advantage of them for personal satisfactory is not looked upon nicely.

And no matter which anime loving gamer or pedo wants to claim that teenage looking and sounding characters are claimed to be actually a 35 years old character by the creator so it's ok is just trying to move the goal posts. Everyone knows what the purpose is of these upskirting photo taking games are for.

Now the counter to that is someone mentioned sex in Japan is ok at 13 (I think), so that's why these kinds of games are tolerated there. But not in other countries. But unfortunately for gamers who like this stuff, companies are doing clampdowns on a blanket scale. So there's notthing you can do unless one of the platforms doesn't have a filter on the game.

Another route you can go is just watch normal porn with real adults, instead of comicbook form pedo-jollies where you maximize points if you pick up a school girl or take the closest ass shot with the photo feature.
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
The difference is you're an adult and doesn't care. As per every country in the world, anyone who is classified as an adult has more freedoms to what they want, how they want it.

And like I said, if I were a teenager - I still wouldn't give a shit. Not sure how you could have missed that in my post unless you were purposefully ignoring it. I still can remember vividly how I would act and react at that age

Also this was posted earlier, I suggest you try reading it. I feel it is a great counter to your anime/artstyle issue: https://flyingfisch.wordpress.com/2...t-censorship-the-pedo-boogieman-and-morality/.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
And like I said, if I were a teenager - I still wouldn't give a shit. Not sure how you could have missed that in my post unless you were purposefully ignoring it. I still can remember vividly how I would act and react at that age

Also this was posted earlier, I suggest you try reading it. I feel it is a great counter to your anime/artstyle issue: https://flyingfisch.wordpress.com/2...t-censorship-the-pedo-boogieman-and-morality/.
That's great, you don't care.

But other people do care about this kind of kiddie-pedo types of material in media.

Why would I care about some Wordpress blog?

Aside from Japan who seems to not really care about teenage upskirting games, most other western countries when it comes to movies, games, tv shows etc.... have pretty consistent views. That is it's pretty rare for children to be exploited for gruesome kills, sex, kids getting raped on screen by other actors, actors having fun sneaking into schools and watching girls in skirts while they jack off. Even though it's fiction and all actors/actresses doing it, it's stil a no-no and just about everyone will agree with it.

Not sure why that's hard to understand. A lot of people and companies who make media don't want weird stuff happening to kids.
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
That's great, you don't care.

But other people do care about this kind of kiddie-pedo types of material in media.

Why would I care about some Wordpress blog?

Aside from Japan who seems to not really care about teenage upskirting games, most other western countries when it comes to movies, games, tv shows etc.... have pretty consistent views. That is it's pretty rare for children to be exploited for gruesome kills, sex, kids getting raped on screen by other actors, actors having fun sneaking into schools and watching girls in skirts while they jack off. Even though it's fiction and all actors/actresses doing it, it's stil a no-no and just about everyone will agree with it.

Not sure why that's hard to understand. A lot of people and companies who make media don't want weird stuff happening to kids.

It does a good job of explaining the issues that you are describing with "anime artstyles" and making large assumptions of what you deem as pedophilic content. You outright state "And no matter which anime loving gamer or pedo wants to claim that teenage looking and sounding characters are claimed to be actually a 35 years old character by the creator so it's ok is just trying to move the goal posts." This post does a good job explaining why you are wrong. I suggest you actually read it instead of acting in an immediately dismissive manner.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
It does a good job of explaining the issues that you are describing with "anime artstyles" and making large assumptions of what you deem as pedophilic content. You outright state "And no matter which anime loving gamer or pedo wants to claim that teenage looking and sounding characters are claimed to be actually a 35 years old character by the creator so it's ok is just trying to move the goal posts." This post does a good job explaining why you are wrong. I suggest you actually read it instead of acting in an immediately dismissive manner.
No thanks. No interest reading it.

No matter what a website says trying to protect anime styles, it really doesn't matter. Anime can have newborn babies being ok to have sex with if fans of the genre are okay with it.

But most of the world and media is not anime. General norms of dipiction, age and content hold pretty standard among most of western countries. And that is involving kids in overly exploitive ways like violence, sex, rape, school kids flashing panties and crotches right into the screen and such is frowned upon and rare.

Nothing more really has to be said.

Corporations seem like they are trending to more censorship, which fits the view of global media. Even Sony (a Japanese company by heart) is caving in.

Having a discussion with me won't move any needle because I don't work for gaming companies involved with censorship. And I support censoring things like kiddie voyerurism kinds of games. Your best bet is protesting any game company who wants to cut out a developer's original content.
 
Honestly, we need to understand the age of consent here in the US and Europe, UK as well as Japan to understand this a bit more clearly. I myself was pissed off about the censorship, but if they're only doing it because of underaged characters, I suppose it's O.K in my book. I've seen plenty of Child Pornography People get caught within the last 3 years to understand why a stance like this would be taken by an privately owned American company.

I guess what I am trying to say mirrors another posters opinion:
I am ok with this, as long as the characters are verifiably underaged.

In Japan, the age of consent is 13, for example.
 
I guess what I am trying to say mirrors another posters opinion:
I am ok with this, as long as the characters are verifiably underaged.
We've already covered this and they aren't. In several cases, these characters are explicitly 18+. This isn't about the characters, this is about the art style.

In Japan, the age of consent is 13, for example.
We've covered this too. The national age of consent is 13, but every prefecture in Japan has higher local standards to the point where it is effectively much higher.
 
We've already covered this and they aren't. In several cases, these characters are explicitly 18+. This isn't about the characters, this is about the art style.

We've covered this too. The national age of consent is 13, but every prefecture in Japan has higher local standards to the point where it is effectively much higher.

I figured this would be brought along but I don't see this as a debate with you. In fact, I only used that in the light of the topic and to highlight differences in our cultures. Especially since these games are usually developed in Nippon.

I am not down with censorship and I have blown a gasket on this forum over it, because Sony is actively participating in it. (Censorship)

But I feel I don't have the full story, I think maybe mid week, this week, I will take the time and read more into this to get more clarity.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
We've already covered this and they aren't. In several cases, these characters are explicitly 18+. This isn't about the characters, this is about the art style.
And to retain original content, all the game makers have to do is make the visuals and voices more mature. And cut out the snooping around the school kinds of settings.

That's why an anime upskirt game gets called out, but a D&D cover with a sorcerous wearing a skimpy robe and big time cleavage gets the ok. It's clear the character is an adult, and the purpose too is someone adventuring and killing monsters.

Now if the D&D plot was a 12 year old flashing her training bra and the plot was to take photos of female mages in academies bathroom while they are in a stone bathtub, then that would be frowned upon too.
 
And to retain original content, all the game makers have to do is make the visuals and voices more mature. And cut out the snooping around the school kinds of settings.
Oh, so all they had to do was make the game a didn't want to make in a way they didn't want to make it? Is that all?

That's why an anime upskirt game gets called out, but a D&D cover with a sorcerous wearing a skimpy robe and big time cleavage gets the ok. It's clear the character is an adult, and the purpose too is someone adventuring and killing monsters.
I think you forget, the skimpy clothing on D&D books were challenged at one time too, but that discussion was over (until sex-negative feminists decided it was sexist, then the discussion came back, and I feel confident in saying that it's near over again). It feels like our victories there should translate to victories here.

If no laws are being broken, and there's not even any iffy things going on (these are adult characters in intent and execution), then demanding that it be censored is beyond the pale. I don't like throwing the word "racism" around, but there's definitely some exceptional cultural bias going on here as I don't see anyone demanding that Riverdale be censored, which features teenage high school characters engaging in explicitly sexual situations - in the first five minutes.

Now if the D&D plot was a 12 year old flashing her training bra and the plot was to take photos of female mages in academies bathroom while they are in a stone bathtub, then that would be frowned upon too.
Why do you people keep going back to pedophilia? These are not 12 year old girls. These are sexually mature adults that are being censored because some asshole thinks cartoons are for kids.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
No thanks. No interest reading it.

No matter what a website says trying to protect anime styles, it really doesn't matter. Anime can have newborn babies being ok to have sex with if fans of the genre are okay with it.

But most of the world and media is not anime. General norms of dipiction, age and content hold pretty standard among most of western countries. And that is involving kids in overly exploitive ways like violence, sex, rape, school kids flashing panties and crotches right into the screen and such is frowned upon and rare.

Nothing more really has to be said.

Corporations seem like they are trending to more censorship, which fits the view of global media. Even Sony (a Japanese company by heart) is caving in.

Having a discussion with me won't move any needle because I don't work for gaming companies involved with censorship. And I support censoring things like kiddie voyerurism kinds of games. Your best bet is protesting any game company who wants to cut out a developer's original content.

Sounds more like you have a bias against anime and want to paint it in a very specific (poor) light and refuse to see it any other way, even when given alternative views that you could read.
 
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