bitbydeath
Member
Nah, it’s the same policy.
People just blew up the Sony one to be more than it was with a bunch of ‘what if’s’
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Kotaku: Steam Is Banning Sex Games With Young-Looking Characters
Nah, it’s the same policy.
People just blew up the Sony one to be more than it was with a bunch of ‘what if’s’
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Most horror films involve teenagers having sex and getting brutally murdered.
OT: If this was actual CP, then it would be sold to begin with as that would be illegal in North America. I say let the games be sold on the platform, let people choose whether or not they want to buy it (assuming they are of the requisite age as stated by the ESRB) and move on. Looking at some of these games, nothing in them is any more offensive than you would find in American comedies like American Pie. Good lord, people.
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Senhua
Member
The BIG difference is: Sony moderate Japanese games for domestic market only while Valve moderate globally sold games.
On topic
It's understandable for Yankee like Kotaku made the hot take like that as they do not understand about eastern demographic which the woman could look much younger than the western counterpart. That games should be sold for eastern region only.
23 years old gravure model
29 years old twitch streamer
29 years old singer idol
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Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
The Mad Draklor
Member
CatCouch
Member
Seems like a solid read with more depth to it. I skimmed it now because it is, indeed, very long. Kind of wish more gaming journalism was like this. I feel our journalism is like reality TV that has no substance, is easy to produce and requires controversy to survive. Journalism should have more insight, not "hot takes", ha ha. Not all game journalism is poor but so much of the bigger sites are not that great.
The comments bring up some troubling stuff like hentai being affected with stronger mosaic censorship. I just created a dang Pixiv account, c'mon Japan, don't start hitting me with restrictions right as I get going!
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
An interesting read, and I agree with just about all of it, but I felt like the arguments were fairly weak and couched in an overly colloquial style that ultimately kind of undermines the effort. You can see where he attempts to go for a good "wham" line and fails, and where he stops just short of bringing the point home. Anybody know if we can get Aaron Sorkin to write an impassioned defense of 10,000 year old dragon lolis?
It doesn't matter really, because the people who need to read an argument like this won't, and never will. The people behind this censorship are so sure in their righteousness than to even entertain a conflicting opinion would be immoral. These aren't smart people operating with a working knowledge of the material they seek to censor - that would require research, perspective, and competence - just mean busybodies who think they know what's best for everybody else while not even knowing what's best for themselves. (I can assume that last part because well adjusted people don't go around concerning themselves with other people's private business).
5secondrulesucks
Banned
number one i will always hate when people say "its theirs they can do with it what they want!" i find this kind of reasoning always extremely cowardly. and yes there is a double standard when it comes to sexuality and extreme violence but my whole point is if this one thing becomes censored then the thing you may enjoy might become censored. if its not illegal then fuckin let it rock. listen i hate anime with all my heart and soul but im defending this garbage in the name of not censoring shit because it will lead to uglier shit
wait what am i saying i hate anime ban this shit
wait what am i saying i hate anime ban this shit
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LittleBusters
Banned
The BIG difference is: Sony moderate Japanese games for domestic market only while Valve moderate globally sold games.
23 years old gravure model
That's insane if true. Can you provide a name to confirm?
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
Apparently, Crunchy Roll censored an episode of the new Sword Art Online series. Theys commins fer are anime, hide yo waifus.
LittleBusters
Banned
I saw the raws on the tweet and honestly it was hardly 'shocking' for a rape scene. But i guess for the precious snowflakes in American anime watching they couldn't handle it.
CatCouch
Member
Is there a legal reason they are censoring this or did they do it on their own? Is this new or has Crunchy Roll censored things in the past? I don't know as I rarely watch anime these days.
If there's a legal reason now that wasn't there a year ago or so how come it's not universal? I'm only seeing some platforms taking action, not a blanket banning or taking down of worse art. I mean, if it's not acceptable to show why can I see it on Twitter?
nkarafo
Member
You know what's funny? If you have sex with these models because you are attracted to this youthful cuteness you are not a pedo in the face of law because they are adults. But if you have sex with some fully developed minor who you thought is an adult because she also dresses and puts make up like an adult... it's prison time for you bud.23 years old gravure model
29 years old twitch streamer
29 years old singer idol
Spooky Scary Skeleton
Member
Good. Valve gets no protest from me.
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WaterAstro
Member
Let's see if others will follow suit. I doubt any platform wants to be the only one who "supports borderline pedophilia".
I'm exaggerating, but that's what a lot of people will see this kind of content. Take Nekopara for example. A simple off-Steam patch gives people access to loli hentai.
I'm exaggerating, but that's what a lot of people will see this kind of content. Take Nekopara for example. A simple off-Steam patch gives people access to loli hentai.
Stitch
Gold Member
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Endless Fluff
Banned
I think this happend because of the Goblin Slayer controversy a few month ago where they didn't even had a disclaimer to warn people about what they're going to see... the rape scenes there are 100x worse, uncensored and also don't have happy ends for the woman (they get raped by goblins and mutilated during the rape or after... ).
And CR has, to my knowledge, never censored themselfs. If anything they usually get the japanese TV versions which could be censored while an uncensored version runs on japanese PayTV (like it was with "How NOT to summon a demon lord" for example).
/edit
Oh, I just read that all VOD services are affected. This points to Aniplex USA who is responsible for this... guess what, Aniplex USA is owned by Sony. *tinfoil hat*
/edit 2
I just found out that the german version on Wakanim was the japanese "uncensored" version... Wakanim is owned by Aniplex. So this definetly is an Aniplex USA thing.
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petran79
Banned
It is not an impartial article but he has a point.
Which brings me to the point that compared to 20 years ago, those kind of series, comics and video games were either unknown, unacceptable or niche outside of East Asia. In the West especially they'd be equal to some niche computer games like Knights of Xentar, Princess Maker 2, Metal and Lace or various hentai in video stores. No one bothered with those games to make a fuss. PM2 DOS version even had a cheat to see a naked 10 year old girl. Cheat was removed in the Steam version, though PM1 has pics with underage nudity, while for PM5 it removed the option to work as a 16 year old cabaret hostess.
Little Witch Romanesque has also underage nude scenes. Countless other games as well.
Valve are probably under pressure by publishers and banks to change their policies so soon. But at least anime has not reached the stigma of furry media and conventions yet, though they'd like it to happen. Worthy furry works are put into the pile as well thanks to this.
PSFan
Member
And that's part of the problem. Many are so quick to judge and label, but I've yet to see any kind of actual proof that these kinds of games lead to pedophilia or are played by pedophiles. Have there been any articles or anything about a pedophile being caught and he was playing these kind of video games? I know there have been plenty of articles about shooters who played a lot of COD or Halo before committing their crimes.
Dommel
Member
Although the federal law is still 13 all prefectures have enacted laws to lift that to 18.
So while technically true, that low age of consent is not the case.
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
I think the bigger problem here is the taboo around sex itself. It creates so much misinformation, especially in the US imo. Pedo literally means pre-pubescent, but it feels like a great many people slap that label on anything below 18.
Heck I've had an irl convo with someone who was afraid of being attracted to a 20y/o because he was 10 years older and felt it was 'pedo'...
It just severely diminishes actual pedo issues and it seems to stem from either ignorance, or fear of being labeled a pedo themselves.
Heck I've had an irl convo with someone who was afraid of being attracted to a 20y/o because he was 10 years older and felt it was 'pedo'...
It just severely diminishes actual pedo issues and it seems to stem from either ignorance, or fear of being labeled a pedo themselves.
Fuz
Banned
*wink* *wink*
JimboJones
Member
Well it's not really funny as much as it is just basic common sense.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
That's because they are confusing the difference between sexual maturity and being able to sign contracts. The idea that 18 years old is the point where you become an adult is arbitrary and has changed dozens of times over the past century, and is different in different states, prefectures, regions, counties, and countries. Frankly, the only reason it isn't higher due to the prudes trying to run this country is the same reason why you can vote at 18 - it used to be 21 but a bunch of states started lowering it because we were sending 18 year olds off to war with them unable to have a say in it. Thanks 'Nam! Basically, it's hard to make the argument that people old enough to go to war are still children. Unless they raise the military service age, the age of consent can't get any higher than it is. We've reached the limit.
Personally, I think 16 is a good age for "sexual adulthood". You have the body of an adult, most people lose their virginity around that time or are otherwise sexually active or interested, and if they can get behind the wheel of a car and endanger themselves and those around them, then it seems like we trust their decision making skills in life or death situations well enough.
That's not to say that 16 year olds should be showing up in porn - to prevent exploitation, we need to ensure that they are there of their own free will, and we can't do that if the federal government will not recognize any contracts they sign at that age without a cosignatory.
Stitch
Gold Member
Is it actually "Steam" or just some rogue employee again? Like when "Steam" wanted to remove Huniepop and a bunch of other games that were on the service for years.
Valve really needs to make up their minds. "Oh this is banned. No wait it's allowed. oh wait it's banned again. Maybe..?"
Valve really needs to make up their minds. "Oh this is banned. No wait it's allowed. oh wait it's banned again. Maybe..?"
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
Get over yourself. Ever watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Vampire Diaries or Twilight? 300 year old vampire pretty boys posing as high school sophomores.
This one is certainly different since this guy has an illness. He is not even able to stand more than a few minutes. But since Shotacon is quite popular in Japan he also got popular for a little while. As for the rest. I wonder who decides whats allowed and what not. Will it be like in Australia in which porn with very petite girls who have very small breasts are not allowed?.23 year old male performer:
I am really not ok with this and will not support it.
Vampire On Titus
Member
One of the problems I have with this is essentially; are the characters depicted in the OP representative of what could get banned? Because what's considered underage in a cartoon art style is so subjective. In my opinion every girl in the OP image could easily be college age in a random VN and I wouldn't bat an eye.
The further down this rabbit hole you go the more you have to really stake out your position. When you're talking about art the standard so often becomes a subjective measure of quality. If I draw a stick figure with no clothes and write the words "12 year old" is that child porn? If it isn't then the only difference is artistic ability and that's just too subjective to create a legitimate standard around. At what point of artistic competence does that become child porn?
I sympathize with the emotional position of just not wanting it around and thinking poorly of people who enjoy this stuff but it's not a position I can come to rationally. It's emotional. The only standard that works for me is whether or not there's a victim. And there's no victim of drawings. Those who are willing to accept this are basically handing a fatal contradiction signed, sealed, delivered to the "video games are murder simulators" people. It's morally wrong to have sex with children, sexualize them in any way. It's also morally wrong to kill someone. But I want my art and media to be able to depict murder without censorship.
It's an uncomfortable and often neglected aspect of the ongoing free speech debate. My basic ethic regarding these issues is to reject censorship of art in any and all forms and this is the one area that really puts that to the test. I have major concerns as it relates to censorship of art but I also want society at large to steer as far away as possible from virped territory. At the very least I think stuff that's on the level of what shadbase creates should not be legal and that dude should be in jail.
The further down this rabbit hole you go the more you have to really stake out your position. When you're talking about art the standard so often becomes a subjective measure of quality. If I draw a stick figure with no clothes and write the words "12 year old" is that child porn? If it isn't then the only difference is artistic ability and that's just too subjective to create a legitimate standard around. At what point of artistic competence does that become child porn?
I sympathize with the emotional position of just not wanting it around and thinking poorly of people who enjoy this stuff but it's not a position I can come to rationally. It's emotional. The only standard that works for me is whether or not there's a victim. And there's no victim of drawings. Those who are willing to accept this are basically handing a fatal contradiction signed, sealed, delivered to the "video games are murder simulators" people. It's morally wrong to have sex with children, sexualize them in any way. It's also morally wrong to kill someone. But I want my art and media to be able to depict murder without censorship.
It's an uncomfortable and often neglected aspect of the ongoing free speech debate. My basic ethic regarding these issues is to reject censorship of art in any and all forms and this is the one area that really puts that to the test. I have major concerns as it relates to censorship of art but I also want society at large to steer as far away as possible from virped territory. At the very least I think stuff that's on the level of what shadbase creates should not be legal and that dude should be in jail.
it is not new they do censor they also censored the mobile game to Danmachi in a very terrible way. Crunchyroll is absolute trash
Azzurri
Member
I don't know if I just don't get what you're saying, but I'm was being facetious.
I was making fun of the people who say because they're 1000 years old it's ok.
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Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
But it is okay... She's an adult. Are you discriminating against petite girls?
Here's a twist what if they went the realistic route and found a 20 year old girl who looks ridiculously (make you think your going to jail )young to play the 1,000 year old dragon.
petran79
Banned
Things is those in censorship have probably no clue about art. Due to the nature of video games, requiring large amount of cash for production and distribution, they attract those sort of persons. Lawyers and businessmen have no place in art.
Adult literature has taken care of this ages ago
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
s_mirage
Member
Just going to be a bit pedantic here: the cheat wasn't removed for the Steam version - AFAIK it was already gone in the Japanese Refine version. IIRC they changed the graphic system from using a paper doll type system (naked base character with clothing sprites placed over the top), to a system where one fully rendered sprite was used for each possible age and clothing combo. Hence the nude base sprite was no longer needed in the game, and the Japanese developers chose not to add it as a cheat.
Noodleopard
Neo Member
Good riddance.
And to those asking whether age is easily identifiable between 17/18 year old cartoon characters: it's not even true for real people. It's why background checks and eligibility waivers exist, why should games get a pass for grossly objectifying underage characters just because of the medium they're portrayed in? Gross is fucking gross (age is less of a factor unless it's specifically brought into the scenes/gameplay forefront), it's semantic to argue based on that though.
And to those asking whether age is easily identifiable between 17/18 year old cartoon characters: it's not even true for real people. It's why background checks and eligibility waivers exist, why should games get a pass for grossly objectifying underage characters just because of the medium they're portrayed in? Gross is fucking gross (age is less of a factor unless it's specifically brought into the scenes/gameplay forefront), it's semantic to argue based on that though.
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CatCouch
Member
Alright, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't some new thing they just started. If they started censoring anime because people were upset they didn't put a warning on Goblin Slayer, that would be ridiculous.
CatCouch
Member
This took a sharp turn at the end. Throw artists in jail? Seems like an extreme view that doesn't align with the rest of the post. Unless it's a joke I'm not getting or something.
Crash Station
Member
Even if the existence of such works cuts down on actual child sexual abuse cases? When that kind of porn was introduced in Japan in the 70s, the quantity of those cases went down exponentially. Now this could very well be a correlation does not equal causation thing, but the possibility is absolutely there.
I think there needs to be a balance where this kind of content doesn't become normalized, but is also out there so it can be used as an outlet when necessary.
As for its existence on Steam, I don't really have an opinion on that either way.
Vampire On Titus
Member
I'm assuming you guys aren't familiar, or not entirely familiar, with Shadbase's artwork. I'm specifically referring the the fact that he's drawn pornographic cartoon depictions of real under-aged girls. Notably a popular middle-school aged YouTuber who's name I won't mention so as to not give the situation more attention. In my opinion that crosses the line and there should be legal repercussions.
Crash Station
Member
Oh, I'm aware of Shad. Used to listen to a podcast he was part of. Him drawing that Youtuber and Keemstar's daughter was fucked up and I'll admit I'm conflicted on what that should entail as far as repercussions go. They are still just drawings, but they definitely go beyond what is acceptable, even if I'm not sure that should entail what is legally acceptable.
Interestingly enough, Shad is friends with quite a few people in high places, including the creator of Rick and Morty and a bunch of other people at Cartoon Network. Even if he was breaking the law, I doubt you'd see anything significant happen, at least not without people coming to his defense.
But yeah, I agree with you that I'm not totally comfortable defending someone drawing actual children. Feels like a type of incitement/harassment.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
I think it could be argued that it is sexual harassment of a minor.