Kamina
Golden Boy
Why though
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Lara Croft to lead team of explorers and to get romantically involved with another female character
Topher
Gold Member
Yeah, but Tomb Raider didn't have a love interest at all in any of the games. I guess one could argue that at this point in the series a romantic relationship (homosexual or heterosexual) would seem forced, but reading the responses it seems pretty clear to me that the issue is that it is a lesbian love interest. If it were not rumored to be lesbian I doubt this thread would even exist. I just think people get way too hung up on this type of thing.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Reality is that most people hold a mixture of right and left-leaning views. Certainly among those who haven't just been fed through the institutional "machine" of Liberal Arts campuses.
People know damn well they are working under a Politically correct reign-of-terror, where mis-speaking or being misunderstood on a bunch of red-line issues will get your ass fired. Its a hard thing to stand against because you have to somehow thread the needle that explains how the problem isn't the underlying intent to treat people more kindly and fairly, but the pathological way that controls and safeguards are implemented in the workplace and how they can be manipulated for gain by unscrupulous actors.
Its one hell of an ask, especially among people who mostly aren't that politically educated or engaged.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Easy self printing money from the clown crowd.
When I play a game like Tomb Raider, I don't think about their sexual orientation, because I don't give a shit.
If their sexual orientation is important for a character, then it's a pretty hollow character.
Why does tracer has to be a lesbian? And soldier gay?
Why do I need to know Abby is a tranny? Or that elli is a lesbian? Do we know what Joel turns on, or even more important - do we fucking care?
Ratchet and clank is a fun kids game. Why do they have to put furry lesbian stuff like Rivet into it?
I'm probably just a weirdo, but I watch Pornhub for porn, and play video games to be some fucking axe swinging murder orc or be an idiot and go gun blazing in gta, and not crying over my favorite character has to be me.
I got an imagination, I don't need to be represented in the game. I don't care if my character is male, female, black, white, whatever color their fur or whatever is.
At least make some new characters that are gay or whatever, instead of beloved characters.
Like the Witcher TV show. I don't care what type of people they put in there as long as its true to its material.
What I hate about the show, is that people who always have been white have been black. Make some new characters instead of using already established characters.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Don't be dense.
A gaming IP establishes its target audience from the very first entry.
Try and change the tone 2 or 3 games in and it just doesn't sit well to fans who were attracted to the established tone of the first game.
Want and example? Gears of War.
First game was dark, gritty, horror-themed, core third person shooter.
The second game tried weaving in some emotional subplot involving one of the main character's wives, and guess what?... It was universally derided.
Why? Well, did you really think the guys who play Gears games looking for this:
really want to see these gruff man-grippers crying about their dead wife?
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Doom85
Member
Don't be dense.
A gaming IP establishes its target audience from the very first entry.
Try and change the tone 2 or 3 games in and it just doesn't sit well to fans who were attracted to the established tone of the first game.
Want and example? Gears of War.
First game was dark, gritty, horror-themed, core third person shooter.
The second game tried weaving in some emotional subplot involving one of the main character's wives, and guess what?... It was universally derided.
Why? Well, did you really think the guys who play Gears games looking for this:
really want to see these gruff man-grippers crying about their dead wife?
Don‘t know, never gave a shit about Gears.
And I don’t see how Lara having a romance necessarily affects the tone or her ability to raid tombs. But hey, clearly you’ve already read the entire script to a game we don’t even have a trailer for……
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Well ok. That's kinda irrelevant.
Really?!?
In a series with well over 10 games, not a single game has had her fucking around with a love interest before. And you don't think shoehorning one in now won't affect the tone?
Of course, it will. That's undeniable.
How much so, is certainly up in the air.
I don't need to read the script. The detail about a love interest is right there in the OP of this thread. Or did you not read the OP?
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
I honestly don't think so.
I think if it were a heterosexual love interest people would still moan about it.
There's a reason the devs have been hesitant to explore that aspect in previous games.
In fact, as a general point across most male-dominated consumption media, female leads tend to avoid having a love interest in general.
Doom85
Member
-Pretty relevant, since you’re throwing out claims without proof and I can’t verify them without hopping into a series I don’t care about.
-undeniable? Geezus fucking Christ. Yeah okay, with so little imagination in your head, no wonder you can’t help but see this as anything but bad with such an extremely narrow view of storytelling. For fucks’ sake.
-hey, as in your own obnoxious words, DON’T BE DENSE. I clearly referred to the script in reference to the prior sentence about how it may not necessarily affect her ability to raid tombs or the tone. It was in the same paragraph so that should have been really obvious. And I did read the OP, and you “read” it as well, though with such poor imagination and reading comprehension it’s no wonder you’re jumping to conclusions and treating them like facts.
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Doom85
Member
Yeah, there’s a reason for that usually, and it’s not one that paints some of the “I don’t want Lara to hook up with someone else!” crowd in the best light……
I mean, I was trying to not say it, but then you went and implied it yourself.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Do you consider it the same target audience when the game has undergone such drastic gameplay changes?
The reboots play nothing like the first game, but they were accepted. That’s far more drastic then introducing a love interest.
What about trying to drag in stories about her family? Players accepted it.
Hell, in Uncharted 4 Drake suddenly has a brother. Totally out of the blue. Did it ruin the tone and turn off longtime fans? If not then why? It’s no different.
So introducing a love interest isn’t really going to matter. It will be accepted and only a vocal minority will take issue with it for a short period of time. I think it’s unrealistic to think Lara wouldn’t have a love interest.
Her girlfriend probably gets kidnapped and tortured anyways, setting the stage for a rescue and revenge.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
I've made no unreasonable claims beyond the obvious one that introducing a love interest in a series that's never explored that would change the tone.
I'm not sure why you think you need to demand evidence for something that is so self-evident.
I mean if you believe it won't, enjoy. I guess we'll see then the game reviews come in.
Considering the level of maturity with which Tomb Raider devs have tackled other narrative themes.... looool... I won't hold my breath for something meaningful.
Yeah, there’s a reason for that usually, and it’s not one that paints some of the “I don’t want Lara to hook up with someone else!” crowd in the best light……
I mean, I was trying to not say it, but then you went and implied it yourself.
....?
Go on, you clearly seem you think you have the answer...
I'm sure there have been many reasons why creators have chosen to avoid love interests for female leads in fictional media. And I'm also sure that some of the reasons may be true for a cross-section of the player base, and some may not be.
Frankly, it's irrelevant at the end of the day. Gaming is a business and dev studios are in it to make money. So whether the fans of a particular franchise appear favourable to
Doom85
or not is irrelevant. The devs need to serve the demands of those fans if they want to continue to make money selling games in a given franchise.
Doom85
Member
I've made no unreasonable claims beyond the obvious one that introducing a love interest in a series that's never explored that would change the tone.
I'm not sure why you think you need to demand evidence for something that is so self-evident.
I mean if you believe it won't, enjoy. I guess we'll see then the game reviews come in.
Considering the level of maturity with which Tomb Raider devs have tackled other narrative themes.... looool... I won't hold my breath for something meaningful.
....?
Go on, you clearly seem you think you have the answer...
I'm sure there have been many reasons why creators have chosen to avoid love interests for female leads in fictional media. And I'm also sure that some of the reasons may be true for a cross-section of the player base, and some may not be.
Frankly, it's irrelevant at the end of the day. Gaming is a business and dev studios are in it to make money. So whether the fans of a particular franchise appear favourable to
-“your honor, I don’t need to present evidence that my client didn’t burn down an orphanage. Because it‘s self-evident due to the fact that’s how I see it and everyone better accept that as fact without question.”
-wow. Just wow. I really have to spell this one out for you, huh?
You know, I’ll give you one last chance. You can do it, I believe in you. Why would certain people not like the idea of Lara Croft, who they find sexy, to be hooking up with a fictional character who isn’t them, err, I mean, hooking up with another fictional character?
I’ll give you time to piece it together.
For the record, I’m not accusing anyone specific in this thread of being this pathetic. But if someone is, bruh, touch grass and socialize and get over that your waifu is swapping tongue with someone else. And this is coming from a waifu appreciator.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Is this a serious question?
Obviously, some old fans will abandon a series due to game design changes, and those changes will also generate new fans.
Devs, however, have the job of being careful to minimise the exodus of longtime fans while trying to innovate to maximise the addition of new ones.
This obviously leads to devs making very overly cautious decisions about how to move a gaming franchise forward. This doesn't seem on the surface at least to be happening here with Tomb Raider. So it's surprising.
If you think the impact of adding a main character's sibling to a game story is the same as adding in a love interest, then I don't really know what to say to you.
The impact on the tone of the story isn't the same.
E.g. the only gripe the addition of Sam generated among Uncharted fans was just the lack of mention of him in previous games; making it seem like a retcon. Whereas, the addition of a same-sex love interest in the TLOU1 DLC made a huge splash and became pretty much the focal point of the entire story of that expansion (also being widely celebrated by fans). It had a much more significant impact.
I disagree. It will make the new game a very different game narratively from previous games. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But some fan will dislike it, while others will become fans of the series because of the change.
It depends wholly on the execution. If they try and fail horribly to tell a mature lesbian love story with Lara Croft, the series may not survive it.
If they nail it, it will generate a whole new legion of fans, while many existing fans who dislike the new direction will be turned off and go elsewhere for their gaming fix.
This would be far too cliche. If they're gonna do it well, they need to be original and think outside the box