• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Let's talk about "creepshots"

Status
Not open for further replies.
But by their approval posts and posting of the pictures + always saying it's technically 'legal' for them to do it, why shouldn't they have to own up to their behavior with their real names? As I said above, if they think it's cool to do it, then they shouldn't feel any shame if they think their behavior is fine.

It sets a dangerous precedent, I think. It's one thing to post pictures, another thing to post sensitive details about the person (although, I suppose you could argue that it's aggregating largely public info such as Facebook, last.fm accounts, etc).

I guess the reason I think it sets a dangerous precedent is because if you think this sort of delving into more sensitive info about a person is okay, then technically you should be okay with the people posting creepshots also posting more sensitive info about the person in the photo as well. Moralistically you can argue that Predditors is okay because it's seeking to shame someone that "deserves" shaming, but in both cases you're ultimately revealing info that's meant for a local audience to a global audience. Not sure how I feel about it. And the creator essentially argues that she's just turning the whole issue of public domain back on the people posting creepshots. I guess it only makes sense that someone will inevitably turn it back on her.

I'll admit to my bias though, and say that I definitely don't mind the first guy on the Predditors page - the obvious racist/provocateur - being outed. It's always so weird to be reminded how so many of those people that spew shit online just look like regular dudes that you may say wassup to casually in your school's hallways.
 
Yeah, this feels like overkill in some cases.
original.png


This guy didn't even post any creepshots, he just voiced his approval and now his mug is all over the internet?

Sorry broseph, gotta fight that bystander effect.
 

Karakand

Member
What the hell kind of word is "mansplain" (From the Jezebel post)?

Jezebel manages to do more to bring anti-feminists together than it does helping those in line with what they post. Thanks to them now "mansplain" is in my lexicon, but I won't use it. But it's now there.

wtf is "mansplain"?

Do I really have to mansplain that to you? I don't think you'd get it.

Look a few posts up, someone linked a definition

Which I did not know, and I have never heard, until that Jezebel article.

Just wait until you leave your mancaves and get exposed to fun things like TERFs.
 

Seguin

Banned
So while perusing some pornography, I came across a guy who posted a candid video of college girls playing volleyball and he does close ups on their camel toe and ass.

Kinda weird.
 

Hit me with your AIM.
Even though I'm not a lady, I can talk with you.

This site is an excellent idea btw:

http://predditors.tumblr.com/

Much more effective than my silly hypothetical laws, and does not infringe on anyone's rights:

tumblr_mbn61qVojE1qbbhw5.png


21 year old White Male
San Francisco, California
studies at San Francisco State University
violently racist
attends Reddit meetups
http://www.reddit.com/user/orang3juuc3

Some of his submissions:
tumblr_mbn64aWDfS1qbbhw5.png

tumblr_mbn64vL4yf1qbbhw5.png

Posts his age and fear of rejection for being creepy:
tumblr_mbn65ffsYA1qbbhw5.png

Posts his location:
tumblr_mbn66hW5s11qbbhw5.png

Posts where he goes to university:

tumblr_mbn67jLtfA1qbbhw5.png

tumblr_mbn66wDZAl1qbbhw5.png

Posts his Steam Profile name:
tumblr_mbn68dTjhw1qbbhw5.png

His steam profile:
tumblr_mbn6976kVK1qbbhw5.png

His facebook:
tumblr_mbn69ltNTe1qbbhw5.png

Violent racism:
tumblr_mbn6b19Lxo1qbbhw5.png
 

Jobiensis

Member
I'm not entirely sure of how I feel about them being reported to their employers (unless the photos were of underage girls/boys) by other people, but I do think having their real names outed is fair. I'm not advocating anything but that, mind you. As a woman I find creepshots disgusting and I really find their approval by some people distasteful (and not helpful), but we've all seen how some internet justice goes beyond reason, so I do worry for extreme vigilante type stuff.

That said, if I personally caught a guy taking/posting creepshots of me and I had the option of reporting it to his boss/friends/family, I would (barring legal recourse), so I kind of get why these creepshot unmaskers want to do that for women who aren't aware that it's been done to them.

I'd applaud you outing someone that took advantage of you. I'm a little conflicted about someone on the internet trying to out people that may have taken a picture, reposted a picture or posted a comment in some creepy thread on reddit. I do feel creepy looking at the creepy people.
 

Kinyou

Member
Hit me with your AIM.
Even though I'm not a lady, I can talk with you.

This site is an excellent idea btw:

http://predditors.tumblr.com/

Much more effective than my silly hypothetical laws, and does not infringe on anyone's rights:

tumblr_mbn61qVojE1qbbhw5.png


21 year old White Male
San Francisco, California
studies at San Francisco State University
violently racist
attends Reddit meetups
http://www.reddit.com/user/orang3juuc3

Some of his submissions:
tumblr_mbn64aWDfS1qbbhw5.png

tumblr_mbn64vL4yf1qbbhw5.png

Posts his age and fear of rejection for being creepy:
tumblr_mbn65ffsYA1qbbhw5.png
But what's the next step? Creepers adding the names of their victims?
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
So far they are backing up everything with screenshots, so I would hope that everyone reading that tumblr also take a stand to ensure that only offenders with sufficient proof are posted.
Not everything. Jason Kayorie is accused of being a pedo with no evidence posted. One wonders how the predditors admin would know of that if the evidence wasn't a screenshottable public-semi-public admission.
 
^ it's stuff like that which makes me extremely vigilant of my activity online. I leave no paper trail in case anyone decides that, for example, a casual remark that a woman has a nice ass gets my real life identity added to some blacklist. Those guys probably deserve it, but i'm sure there are many out there who have been attacked for the pettiest reason.
 

CorvoSol

Member

Much as I'm sure this man is deserving, the idea of blackmailing someone or threatening them still makes me uncomfortable. Or rather, the idea of individuals taking it upon themselves to do so troubles me. I make no arguments for the guy's innocence and I certainly don't think creepshots are right but, there is just something unsettling about threatening others; as in, what happens if he doesn't back down? What will these people do if he doesn't? Does his crime justify whatever unnamed punishment comes after that?

And not naming the punishment really does not sit well with me, either. Because then the guy can't even know if you're punishing him or not. And is attacking someone from the shadows any better than their being a creep from the shadows? I don't know that I mean to say that what they're doing is as bad as he is, but on the other hand, I cannot be the only one who is honestly not okay with that "Use your imagination" line.
 

Kinyou

Member
So far they are backing up everything with screenshots, so I would hope that everyone reading that tumblr also take a stand to ensure that only offenders with sufficient proof are posted.
That Will Smith guy seems to have been posted on the simple assumption that there's only one guy in New Jersey who is called Will Smith and uses Facebook.

Now the chance is small, but there's still a chance that this is the wrong one, and I think this is something where you shouldn't be taking any chances at all. They already gave up moral ground, when then accuse someone innocent they'd lose it entirely.
 
Much as I'm sure this man is deserving, the idea of blackmailing someone or threatening them still makes me uncomfortable. Or rather, the idea of individuals taking it upon themselves to do so troubles me. I make no arguments for the guy's innocence and I certainly don't think creepshots are right but, there is just something unsettling about threatening others; as in, what happens if he doesn't back down? What will these people do if he doesn't? Does his crime justify whatever unnamed punishment comes after that?

And not naming the punishment really does not sit well with me, either. Because then the guy can't even know if you're punishing him or not. And is attacking someone from the shadows any better than their being a creep from the shadows? I don't know that I mean to say that what they're doing is as bad as he is, but on the other hand, I cannot be the only one who is honestly not okay with that "Use your imagination" line.

Just imagine it's Batman.
 
I'm not sure i can agree with taking that sort of action against people who only posted a comment. For the people who think that is right would you care if the same thing happened on neogaf? There are plenty of threads where someone will post a picture of some completely random girl and you will get tons of responses like 'would', 'nice' etc. I guess they're not technically seeking out creepshots but i don't feel it's too different.

I'm not really sure how i feel about it going so far. I definitely don't like the whole creepshots idea and the people taking them are creepy and i have no problem with their names being posted. I'm just not sure how far this should go.
 

UrbanRats

Member
That Will Smith guy seems to have been posted on the simple assumption that there's only one guy in New Jersey who is called Will Smith and uses Facebook.

Now the chance is small, but there's still a chance that this is the wrong one, and I think this is something where you shouldn't be taking any chances at all. They already gave up moral ground, when then accuse someone innocent they'd lose it entirely.

This is what i meant when i said i don't trust people (even with good intentions) to behave like level headed individuals, when it comes to vigilantism and vendettas.

They should be far more careful with this, because this is not something you can easily back off from.

And personally i feel very uncomfortable reading other people's life profiles (unless i know them) so i'll avoid reading more of that page anyway. :p

Just imagine it's Batman.

Not a good call, since Batman is a psychopath.
 

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
I look forward to the defamation lawsuits that will inevitably spring up from this.
 
Not a good call, since Batman is a psychopath.

that'sthejoke.jpg

These weird Internet crusaders that go about business like this probably get their fucked up sense of justice from the comic books and the like. I don't particularly mind in practice, seeing as it usually balances out a way more fucked up mentality- and I'd expect the kind of person who goes about starting something like r/creepshots isn't exactly the courageous type, so there's no way he'll actually put up a fight and discover what the "consequences" for his action are.

The only problem I ever have with these types of scenarios is when the "consequences" these weirdos drum up cross over into the real world. I suppose it's the only way to threaten someone online- cutting off someone's e-penis doesn't actually hurt, hence stopping there usually isn't the most dissuading measure- but it's still fucked up.
 
But by their approval posts and posting of the pictures + always saying it's technically 'legal' for them to do it, why shouldn't they have to own up to their behavior with their real names? As I said above, if they think it's cool to do it, then they shouldn't feel any shame if they think their behavior is fine.


While I don't disagree with the treatment some of them got I don't think there is any justification that can be had except petty "revenge".

There are things us Gaffers post here about day to day experiences with friends, family, coworkers ect, people they hate, sexual preferences and experiences etc etc. These posts aren't illegal and our members certainly aren't scared to open up to the board (because of anonymity) but many of them would die a thousand deaths of embarrassment if some gaffer found everyone's real name, compiled a character profile, and posted it online.

Just because you are open online and aren't embarrassed doesn't mean people don't want privacy. Then again, these guys are getting the same treatment (except worse) for what they did - so it is definitely fitting.

But I rarely agree with e-justice because it's usually far worse than the original offense, it can't be monitored, and it usually snowballs into something quite ridiculous, eventually ruining the persons life for a good while.

I like the spirit of the site but not the execution.
 

UrbanRats

Member
that'sthejoke.jpg
Sorry, it's obvious now, but flew over my head before. :(

While I don't disagree with the treatment some of them got I don't think there is any justification that can be had except petty "revenge".

There are things us Gaffers post here about day to day experiences with friends, family, coworkers ect, people they hate, sexual preferences and experiences etc etc. These posts aren't illegal and our members certainly aren't scared to open up to the board (because of anonymity) but many of them would die a thousand deaths of embarrassment if some gaffer found everyone's real name, compiled a character profile, and posted it online.

Just because you are open online and aren't embarrassed doesn't mean people don't want privacy. Then again, these guys are getting the same treatment (except worse) for what they did - so it is definitely fitting.

But I rarely agree with e-justice because it's usually far worse than the original offense, it can't be monitored, and it usually snowballs into something quite ridiculous, eventually ruining the persons life for a good while.

I like the spirit of the site but not the execution.

Good post, i feel similar.
Also i personally learnt that whatever you post on the internet is (virtually) there forever, reason why even if it would probably do me some good, i don't feel comfortable discussing my personal stuff on GAF (the depression thread or the like).
These people (creepshot) where probably mostly pieces of shit, but there's something scary in this internet detective + e-justice practice, and as i said before, i don't trust people to use said tools in an appropriate manner.
 
Sorry, it's obvious now, but flew over my head before. :(



Good post, i feel similar.
Also i personally learnt that whatever you post on the internet is (virtually) there forever, reason why even if it would probably do me some good, i don't feel comfortable discussing my personal stuff on GAF (the depression thread or the like).
These people (creepshot) where probably mostly pieces of shit, but there's something scary in this internet detective + e-justice practice, and as i said before, i don't trust people to use said tools in an appropriate manner.

That's the thing though with the internet:

The watcher has a watcher, and so does that watcher as well.

It's us, the rest of the interewebs, who have the power to ensure that misappropriate usage of said tools is corrected.
 

UrbanRats

Member
That's the thing though with the internet:

The watcher has a watcher, and so does that watcher as well.

It's us, the rest of the interewebs, who have the power to ensure that misappropriate usage of said tools is corrected.

Even good people differ on what's just and correct though, just look at GAF alone.
That's why we have a complex and indepth court and justice system, because that's not something you can leave to what feels right to you (imo, anyway).

I've seen plenty of selfrighteous actions of e-justice from places like Reddit or 4chan and even if it sometimes feels good, and you can consider it fair, it's not something i will advocate as the right way to procede.
Maybe i just have a skewed view of it, but i never trusted too much the "we can change the world!" attitude that runs rampant is communities like Reddit, again, even if it has a good intention at its core.

EDIT: to clarify, if it's for something political or even something minor it can have a place of course, but if it enters in the justice and ruining people's lives realm, then i start to have a problem with it.

The "weird internet crusaders" are woman who won't sit idly by and let some fucked up thing like "creepshots" just continue to happen. What are they supposed to do? I'm 50/50 on internet vigilantes doling out justice but in this case I'm 100% for it.

Sure, but it's important to send a message in this case, not to go overboard with the persecution.
I think most of us would agree that the intentions are good and fair.
 

Zilch

Banned
that'sthejoke.jpg

These weird Internet crusaders that go about business like this probably get their fucked up sense of justice from the comic books and the like. I don't particularly mind in practice, seeing as it usually balances out a way more fucked up mentality- and I'd expect the kind of person who goes about starting something like r/creepshots isn't exactly the courageous type, so there's no way he'll actually put up a fight and discover what the "consequences" for his action are.

The only problem I ever have with these types of scenarios is when the "consequences" these weirdos drum up cross over into the real world. I suppose it's the only way to threaten someone online- cutting off someone's e-penis doesn't actually hurt, hence stopping there usually isn't the most dissuading measure- but it's still fucked up.

The "weird internet crusaders" are woman who won't sit idly by and let some fucked up thing like "creepshots" just continue to happen. What are they supposed to do? I'm 50/50 on internet vigilantes doling out justice but in this case I'm 100% for it.

edit: Doesn't this "cross over into the real world" initially when women who are aware of what a "creepshot" is have to be scared to be in public because someone might do it to them?
 
The "weird internet crusaders" are woman who won't sit idly by and let some fucked up thing like "creepshots" just continue to happen. What are they supposed to do? I'm 50/50 on internet vigilantes doling out justice but in this case I'm 100% for it.

I'm on about the picture CorvoSol posted. The site where people are compiling info for these creeps? Sure, whatever, they're getting there's and that's good. Obviously.
 
Even good people differ on what's just and correct though, just look at GAF alone.
That's why we have a complex and indepth court and justice system, because that's not something you can leave to what feels right to you (imo, anyway).

I've seen plenty of selfrighteous actions of e-justice from places like Reddit or 4chan and even if it sometimes feels good, and you can consider it fair, it's not something i will advocate as the right way to procede.
Maybe i just have a skewed view of it, but i never trusted too much the "we can change the world!" attitude that runs rampant is communities like Reddit, again, even if it has a good intention at its core.

EDIT: to clarify, if it's for something political or even something minor it can have a place of course, but if it enters in the justice and ruining people's lives realm, then i start to have a problem with it.

That's the thing though.
If people have a problem with it, they should in turn either contact the "vigilante" and attempt to adjust their policies so they won't affect innocents, or start up their own campaign to conduct the original vigilante's business in a more ethical manner while at the same time attempting to block out the OG.
 
It sets a dangerous precedent, I think. It's one thing to post pictures, another thing to post sensitive details about the person (although, I suppose you could argue that it's aggregating largely public info such as Facebook, last.fm accounts, etc).

I guess the reason I think it sets a dangerous precedent is because if you think this sort of delving into more sensitive info about a person is okay, then technically you should be okay with the people posting creepshots also posting more sensitive info about the person in the photo as well. Moralistically you can argue that Predditors is okay because it's seeking to shame someone that "deserves" shaming, but in both cases you're ultimately revealing info that's meant for a local audience to a global audience. Not sure how I feel about it. And the creator essentially argues that she's just turning the whole issue of public domain back on the people posting creepshots. I guess it only makes sense that someone will inevitably turn it back on her.

I'll admit to my bias though, and say that I definitely don't mind the first guy on the Predditors page - the obvious racist/provocateur - being outed. It's always so weird to be reminded how so many of those people that spew shit online just look like regular dudes that you may say wassup to casually in your school's hallways.

I'm not sure what other recourse there is, though. How do women fight back against this kind of behavior if the law doesn't yet protect against it? Somebody mentioned that Canada has a law that covers this and maybe that's something we could adopt as well, but until then these kind of guys just post with impunity. I do see how it can easily get out of hand (as you note), but since the lure of these photos is the anonymity and I'm not sure how they'd pinpoint more info about their subject just by having a picture of her ass or chest, perhaps this kind of public calling out might actually work. 'Might.' :/


I'd applaud you outing someone that took advantage of you. I'm a little conflicted about someone on the internet trying to out people that may have taken a picture, reposted a picture or posted a comment in some creepy thread on reddit. I do feel creepy looking at the creepy people.

I'd rather they just out the guys actually taking/uploading the pictures. Those who post 'would' or approval of them aren't anything worth admiring, but I think outing their info is a bit much and shouldn't be the focus. Engaged and talked to to convey why posting approval of those kinds of pictures is bad, yes, but I don't think publicly naming them is necessary.


While I don't disagree with the treatment some of them got I don't think there is any justification that can be had except petty "revenge".

There are things us Gaffers post here about day to day experiences with friends, family, coworkers ect, people they hate, sexual preferences and experiences etc etc. These posts aren't illegal and our members certainly aren't scared to open up to the board (because of anonymity) but many of them would die a thousand deaths of embarrassment if some gaffer found everyone's real name, compiled a character profile, and posted it online.

Just because you are open online and aren't embarrassed doesn't mean people don't want privacy. Then again, these guys are getting the same treatment (except worse) for what they did - so it is definitely fitting.

But I rarely agree with e-justice because it's usually far worse than the original offense, it can't be monitored, and it usually snowballs into something quite ridiculous, eventually ruining the persons life for a good while.

I like the spirit of the site but not the execution.

It's not just petty revenge, though. They're calling these guys out so that there's some kind of repercussion for taking/posting the pics. It's preventative and punitive (I think). And, we're just talking about creepshots here, not Gaf posts or whatnot. Posting random (even if offensive) stuff on a forum isn't on the same level as guys stalking you from behind to get a picture of your ass in real life and then posting it for wank material. These guys gave up their right to privacy in my opinion by engaging in the physically stalking aspect. I know some guys here don't seem to understand what the problem is or seem to think we should take it as a compliment, but even being catcalled is an unpleasant and unwelcome experience.

But that said, the e-justice thing is, as you noted, usually far worse than the original offense. I'm not sure what's best, really. :/
 
I look forward to the defamation lawsuits that will inevitably spring up from this.

This, pretty much.

Here's my breakdown of the situation:

1. Creepshots are not and should not be illegal (so long as they're taken in a public place and do not violate the subject's immediate person (e.g., guy sticking his camera phone under a woman's skirt)).

2. Creepshots are nevertheless a disgusting trend, and finding ways to pressure the creepshotters by exposing their disgusting (but legal) behavior sounds like a good idea.

3. However, the Predditors person/people are in for a rude awakening once those first demand letters start rolling in. It's one thing to compile a list of creepshot posts with links to their Reddit profiles. It's another thing entirely to post statements like "Dude's a pedo" without any substantiating proof. People gon' get sued.
 

UrbanRats

Member
That's the thing though.
If people have a problem with it, they should in turn either contact the "vigilante" and attempt to adjust their policies so they won't affect innocents, or start up their own campaign to conduct the original vigilante's business in a more ethical manner while at the same time attempting to block out the OG.

I've got two problems with that though:
1) You seem to split into either innocent or guilty, while i don't see it that way.
Of course a "false-positive" is the biggest threat of this vigilante business, but the level of punishment inflicted on (the various degrees of) the guilty people is also up to debate and it's very much something we'll never all agree on. (just look at how some gaffers are ok with prison justice/torture/rape and how many are not, each person has a very personal idea of what's just).

2) It seems like an endless chain of clusterfuck AND i don't feel like I have the necessary acumen myself, to dictate what is or isn't just and approriate, so opening my personal e-justice campaign wouldn't make me feel any better about it.
That's why i like the idea of a more detached and objective justice system, as in depth as possible.

The problem with these people (creeps) is that they were very smug about it and jumped around their rights; so understandably actions were undertaken, but (i feel) they should be kept in the range of what is necessary to send a message and bring attention to the issue, not to personally hunt down every person even remotely (like people who just commented) involved in it and destroy their lives.

But i understand that it's subjective, like all arguments concerning justice.
 

gurudyne

Member
3. However, the Predditors person/people are in for a rude awakening once those first demand letters start rolling in. It's one thing to compile a list of creepshot posts with links to their Reddit profiles. It's another thing entirely to post statements like "Dude's a pedo" without any substantiating proof. People gon' get sued.

Things like this are why I'm skeptical of anything on the Internet that's labelled 'vigilante', no matter how righteous the cause. Sometimes, the more righteous, the worse. People are notoriously bad at restraint when it comes to something the find detestable or are emotionally involved in. The longer they can rein in any impulses they have to (unknowingly or unconsciously) abuse their power, the better, but I just don't trust anyone to actually do it for the long run. And what little trust I have exponentially decreases in inverse proportion to the number of people involved.
 

Xzeon

Banned
i found this.

http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/118qdg/the_real_reason_why_violentacrez_deleted_his/

the whole Creepshots debacle is getting fucking crazy.

tl;dr: VA was doxxed in real life and Adrian Chen was going to run an article on him

The long version is this. A few days ago, I asked VA to add me as a moderator to /r/incest[1] . He did and then replied that when I added him as a Moderator on /r/CreepShots[2] , I may have 'sealed his fate' because Adrian Chen 'decided to hunt him down' and was going to print his real name and picture in an article.
 
I'm not sure what other recourse there is, though. How do women fight back against this kind of behavior if the law doesn't yet protect against it? Somebody mentioned that Canada has a law that covers this and maybe that's something we could adopt as well, but until then these kind of guys just post with impunity. I do see how it can easily get out of hand (as you note), but since the lure of these photos is the anonymity and I'm not sure how they'd pinpoint more info about their subject just by having a picture of her ass or chest, perhaps this kind of public calling out might actually work. 'Might.' :/




I'd rather they just out the guys actually taking/uploading the pictures. Those who post 'would' or approval of them aren't anything worth admiring, but I think outing their info is a bit much and shouldn't be the focus. Engaged and talked to to convey why posting approval of those kinds of pictures is bad, yes, but I don't think publicly naming them is necessary.




It's not just petty revenge, though. They're calling these guys out so that there's some kind of repercussion for taking/posting the pics. It's preventative and punitive (I think). And, we're just talking about creepshots here, not Gaf posts or whatnot. Posting random (even if offensive) stuff on a forum isn't on the same level as guys stalking you from behind to get a picture of your ass in real life and then posting it for wank material. These guys gave up their right to privacy in my opinion by engaging in the physically stalking aspect. I know some guys here don't seem to understand what the problem is or seem to think we should take it as a compliment, but even being catcalled is an unpleasant and unwelcome experience.

But that said, the e-justice thing is, as you noted, usually far worse than the original offense. I'm not sure what's best, really. :/

I really can't disagree with anything you've said. A fitting preventative punishment since they were talking pictures of people and posting them online. Quite ironic.

Maybe petty was the wrong word. Like I said some blatantly deserved whatever came their way (the teacher for instance), it's just the length gone to is just a bit extreme for my tastes. I'm glad they shut down the subreddit, but I'm not sure the ends justified the means.

Who polices the police is what I'm trying to say. Which again, is why I don't like e-justice. It's always like using a chainsaw for neurosurgery.
 
Has this been mentioned yet? It's been a local phenomenon here at UGA where girls have been taking creepy pictures of unsuspecting guys and putting them on the tumblr. It's been around for a few weeks now at least. Just a small example of girls doing it to guys, just as creepy in my opinion.
http://tapthatugaguy.tumblr.com/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom